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View Full Version : What to do with Phillips next season?



The DARK
04-27-2011, 03:31 PM
Unless we draft a college 2B in the first round this year, I don't see how we can afford not to at least pick up his option for next year. The drop-off from him to his replacement, Valaika, is greater than anyone else on the team. As of right now, we have no prospects that can provide anywhere close to what he brings, and the only potential 2B worth of a starting role is Billy Hamilton, years away from being ready. I'd offer a LTC.

DaytonFlyer
04-27-2011, 04:27 PM
Where is "pick up the option, look to sign him to a LTC"?

signalhome
04-27-2011, 04:55 PM
Where is "pick up the option, look to sign him to a LTC"?

Yep. I'd be looking to lock him up, but I'm also going to pick up his option.

The DARK
04-27-2011, 05:54 PM
Forgot to put that in somehow... suppose that this poll is kinda useless without it sadly :(

code
04-27-2011, 05:59 PM
I would love to see Brandon as the next Barry Larkin of the Reds.

brm7675
04-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Love to keep Brandon but at some point the Reds have to look long term money wise. So I bet we pick up the option, but there is no long term deal UNLESS Brandon is willing to do it for around 10-12 million per year, anything more then that and he is traded...

Stray
04-27-2011, 06:13 PM
Try to sign him to a new contract. He's too valuable to this team.

Maker_84
04-27-2011, 06:22 PM
Phillips is our best all around player, we can't let him leave. He's done waaay too much for this team

jhiller21
04-27-2011, 06:36 PM
Pick him up and try for a 3-4 year deal. Phillips will have to take a discount though if we want to keep Votto long term.

brm7675
04-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Phillips is our best all around player, we can't let him leave. He's done waaay too much for this team

Best all around? Really? Look I like Brandon, but we have to look at this from a financial issue and not a talent issue. You have X amount of dollars available.

bshall2105
04-27-2011, 06:54 PM
Pick up his option and sign him to a deal worth more than Carl Crawford's.

lonewolf371
04-27-2011, 07:22 PM
Phillips is our best all around player, we can't let him leave. He's done waaay too much for this team
He's not the best all-around player. He might be the most well-rounded player.

In any case, he's one of the best 2B in the league and I think the Reds have to keep him for this championship run they want to make for the next few years.

Of course, if it's a Phillips vs. Votto issue then I want Votto.

Drugs Delaney
04-27-2011, 07:32 PM
As others mentioned, I'd pick up the option but try to sign him to a reasonable 3 or 4 year deal also.

Seems like a very similar situation to Arroyo last offseason and if we can get the same outcome with Phillips, that would be awesome.

Hondo
04-27-2011, 07:42 PM
This team has to decline it or sign him to an extension where he has a lower salary for 2013-2014-2015... Like if he will take 8 to 9 Million per year for 3 years of another extension... Sign him to a 3 year 24 Million Dollar Extension for 2013-2014-2015 while picking up his 2012 option for 11 Million so its really like he's getting a 4 Year 35 Million Dollar Deal...

brm7675
04-27-2011, 07:48 PM
This team has to decline it or sign him to an extension where he has a lower salary for 2013-2014-2015... Like if he will take 8 to 9 Million per year for 3 years of another extension... Sign him to a 3 year 24 Million Dollar Extension for 2013-2014-2015 while picking up his 2012 option for 11 Million so its really like he's getting a 4 Year 35 Million Dollar Deal...

Don't see Brandon giving the Reds that much of a home town discount. I could see him at around 10-12 per season, but not that low. The amount you are wanting is 'slap in the face' amount.

bshall2105
04-27-2011, 10:49 PM
Don't see Brandon giving the Reds that much of a home town discount. I could see him at around 10-12 per season, but not that low. The amount you are wanting is 'slap in the face' amount.

Nine million is a slap in the face amount but you could see him agreeing for 10 million? That doesn't make sense at all.

Kingspoint
04-28-2011, 03:59 AM
None of those choices.

Trade him mid-season this year for Starting Pitching while he's off to a great start.

We have his replacement in Valaika.

Hondo
04-28-2011, 04:13 AM
None of those choices.

Trade him mid-season this year for Starting Pitching while he's off to a great start.

We have his replacement in Valaika.

With all due respect. I don't think Valaika could even come close to being a major league starter... He is not the answer.

I believe BP will ultimatley resign with the Reds at a lower rate just like Rolen did...

This team needs to deal for a Starter No Doubt... Named Felix Hernadez by throwing Alonso, Mesoraco, Joseph, LeCure, Maloney, and Heisey at the Mariners... Plus give them Paul Janish... everybody in the league wants Janish!

Vottomatic
04-28-2011, 07:48 AM
What to do with Phillips?

It depends. If the Reds win the World Series, don't you want him back to go for a repeat? Or, if the Reds fall apart this season and don't make the playoffs, and BP's numbers tail off, maybe we don't re-sign him. It depends on how BP does and how the Reds do, in my book.

I probably pick up the option and give the farm system time to replace him, or see the results of BP and the Reds the next 2 seasons. If I pick up the option and the Reds struggle next season, then maybe he becomes trade bait.

As a person, BP seems to bleed Red and has been good with the fans. That does matter to me. But the Reds are small market and cannot afford alot. He would have to take a hometown discount if we signed him long term. And BP needs to realize he'll be in his 30's during that extension and most likely his numbers start declining eventually from age.

redssince75
04-28-2011, 11:19 AM
Phillips is our best all around player

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CySeymour
04-28-2011, 11:55 AM
My vote is to pick up his option for next season with the idea of making a run next year. If it doesn't workout, flip him midseason. No matter what, let him test the market after the season but don't sign him to a long term deal. If they do, I'd think 2 years would be the absolute longest, but I would doubt he would go for that.

BigPoppa
04-28-2011, 01:04 PM
We know we're looking at replacing 3B in the near future, so go ahead and lock down our Gold Glove 2B while we can. Get 3/4 of the infield squared away.

signalhome
04-28-2011, 02:20 PM
None of those choices.

Trade him mid-season this year for Starting Pitching while he's off to a great start.

We have his replacement in Valaika.

Going to have to strongly disagree that Valaika is in any way an acceptable replacement for Phillips. Valaika is putting up worse numbers in AAA than Phillips is at the major league level, and though Valaika's defense would be good, it is not likely to match Phillips'.

signalhome
04-28-2011, 02:25 PM
He's not the best all-around player. He might be the most well-rounded player.

In any case, he's one of the best 2B in the league and I think the Reds have to keep him for this championship run they want to make for the next few years.

Of course, if it's a Phillips vs. Votto issue then I want Votto.

Pretty much spot-on. I don't want to keep Phillips at the expense of losing Votto, but that in no way means I want Phillips gone. Like you said, he's one of the best 2B in the league (from 2008-2011, he is #3 in WAR for NL 2B, behind Uggla and Utley), and that's not easily replaced.

Kingspoint
04-28-2011, 05:40 PM
With all due respect. I don't think Valaika could even come close to being a major league starter... He is not the answer.



95% of everyone here said that about Janish, and they were all wrong.

Kingspoint
04-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Bottomline:

Can't afford Phillips.

Not with the lousy attendance that shows up for REDS' games.

brm7675
04-28-2011, 05:44 PM
Bottomline:

Can't afford Phillips.

Not with the lousy attendance that shows up for REDS' games.

Attendance is down league wide:thumbdown:

brm7675
04-28-2011, 05:46 PM
With all due respect. I don't think Valaika could even come close to being a major league starter... He is not the answer.

I believe BP will ultimatley resign with the Reds at a lower rate just like Rolen did...

This team needs to deal for a Starter No Doubt... Named Felix Hernadez by throwing Alonso, Mesoraco, Joseph, LeCure, Maloney, and Heisey at the Mariners... Plus give them Paul Janish... everybody in the league wants Janish!

A) Can you provide reasoning why Valaika can't play on the major league level? I mean come on at one time people didn't think Phillips could play on this level.

B) This team DOES NOT NEED A STARTER. Also Felix isn't going anywhere.

brm7675
04-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Nine million is a slap in the face amount but you could see him agreeing for 10 million? That doesn't make sense at all.

Over a 4-5 year deal there is a huge difference in Phillips signing a 8-9 million a year deal and him signing a 10-12 million dollar per year deal...A million differences...

DirtyBaker
04-28-2011, 06:14 PM
You can't let Brandon walk out of here. One of the best 2B in the game today. Sign him long term.

brm7675
04-28-2011, 06:38 PM
You can't let Brandon walk out of here. One of the best 2B in the game today. Sign him long term.

Again I don't beleive the Reds "want" to let him walk, but in today's economics it just might not be fisically responsible to sign him long term.

Stray
04-28-2011, 06:55 PM
I'm more confident that BP will give us a hometown discount than I am Votto will when we get there.

I'm sure they've at least been in talks, and I would think Walt will do everything he can to lock him up long term. If they can't, they'll pick up his option. The argument can be made that he is the most valuable player on this team.

Hondo
04-28-2011, 08:31 PM
Would you rather have Phillips (11 Million) and take Corderos Salary (12 Million) or have Joey Votto for like 6 years (2014-2019)

I say Sign Joey and build around him, Bruce, Chapman, Leake, Wood, etc...

BPhillips4
04-28-2011, 08:52 PM
I'm obviously a Phillips fan, and I would love to see him here long term. I feel like he is not at all easily replaceable on this team, or any team for that matter. I think if they could get him to bite on a 5 year deal, that would be optimal. Something like that would end right as he's beginning his "come down" given his age.

brm7675
04-28-2011, 09:00 PM
I'm obviously a Phillips fan, and I would love to see him here long term. I feel like he is not at all easily replaceable on this team, or any team for that matter. I think if they could get him to bite on a 5 year deal, that would be optimal. Something like that would end right as he's beginning his "come down" given his age.

How much per year are you willing to go? 9-10-11-12-13-14...

BPhillips4
04-28-2011, 09:04 PM
I'd say something around 5 years 60 million would be fair. I highly doubt that would do the trick though. If he really does want to be a Red for life, I'd test it, throw out a very incentive and bonus laden deal with a player option tacked on for good measure.

AintlifeGrande
04-28-2011, 09:28 PM
I chuckled at the 3 who wanted to let him go and look for a cheaper replacement or FA.One of the two best hitter's on the team right now.Cmon guys.

CySeymour
04-29-2011, 11:18 AM
I chuckled at the 3 who wanted to let him go and look for a cheaper replacement or FA.One of the two best hitter's on the team right now.Cmon guys.

I don't think anyone is questioning how good Phillips is now. But you do have to think how good will he be in 2,3,4 years. The player he is now? History isn't on his side there.

Oxblood
04-29-2011, 01:16 PM
None of those choices.

Trade him mid-season this year for Starting Pitching while he's off to a great start.

We have his replacement in Valaika.

This

BluegrassRedleg
04-29-2011, 11:47 PM
Best thing to do at this point is see where they stand at the end of the season and judge the situation based on how realistic they'll be as a contender in 2012 and beyond.

gilpdawg
04-30-2011, 12:23 AM
95% of everyone here said that about Janish, and they were all wrong.

Were they? Still not convinced that he has the bat long term to keep the job.

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Jack Burton
04-30-2011, 08:38 AM
Phillips? Nothing special, just a glorified 8 hitter w/ a good glove. If he played any other position he'd be a nobody. Trade him asap and give the job to Valaika, we went on a tear last year w/ Janish & Valaika up the middle.

bshall2105
04-30-2011, 05:32 PM
95% of everyone here said that about Janish, and they were all wrong.

Janish should not be a major league starter.

VottoFan54
04-30-2011, 06:18 PM
Phillips? Nothing special, just a glorified 8 hitter w/ a good glove. If he played any other position he'd be a nobody. Trade him asap and give the job to Valaika, we went on a tear last year w/ Janish & Valaika up the middle.

Brandon Phillips' stats from '10:

.332 OBP 16 SB 18 HR .762 OPS in 626 AB

Common Yankee #8 hitters Russell Martin, Brett Gardner, and Curtis Granderson:

.347 OBP 6 SB 5 HR .697 OPS in 331 AB
.383 OBP 47 SB 5 HR .762 OPS in 477 AB
.324 OBP 12 SB 24 HR .792 OPS in 466 AB

Common Brewers' #8 hitters Yuniesky Betancourt and Jonathan Lucroy:

.288 OBP 2 SB 16 HR .692 OPS in 556 AB
.300 OBP 4 SB 4 HR .628 OPS in 277 AB

Common Phillie #8 hitters Carlos Ruiz and Wilson Valdez:

.400 OBP 0 SB 8 HR .847 OPS in 371 AB
.306 OBP 7 SB 4 HR .667 OPS in 333 AB

Brandon Phillips might be an eight hitter if he was on an elite team, and even then he would probably bat higher in the lineup since only three of these hitters are as good as or better than BP. Carlos Ruiz had a year that is way outside his career norm, Gardner should hit leadoff, and when you have as much money as the Yankees you are going to have guys like Granderson hitting #8.

I think it is unreasonable to call BP a "glorified 8 hitter" when he wouldn't hit 8 on some of the best offenses in baseball and he is one of the best players at his position.

IMO, BP is a guy that you should like to have signed to a contract for the next few years, but in the Reds situation when you are going to try to sign a lot of young guys to long term contarcts you just can't afford to sign guys like Phillips if they want any more than 8-10 million dollars per year, and he is already 30 and has 3 years or so before he hits the downside of his career.

lonewolf371
05-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Brandon Phillips' stats from '10:

.332 OBP 16 SB 18 HR .762 OPS in 626 AB

Common Yankee #8 hitters Russell Martin, Brett Gardner, and Curtis Granderson:

.347 OBP 6 SB 5 HR .697 OPS in 331 AB
.383 OBP 47 SB 5 HR .762 OPS in 477 AB
.324 OBP 12 SB 24 HR .792 OPS in 466 AB

Common Brewers' #8 hitters Yuniesky Betancourt and Jonathan Lucroy:

.288 OBP 2 SB 16 HR .692 OPS in 556 AB
.300 OBP 4 SB 4 HR .628 OPS in 277 AB

Common Phillie #8 hitters Carlos Ruiz and Wilson Valdez:

.400 OBP 0 SB 8 HR .847 OPS in 371 AB
.306 OBP 7 SB 4 HR .667 OPS in 333 AB

Brandon Phillips might be an eight hitter if he was on an elite team, and even then he would probably bat higher in the lineup since only three of these hitters are as good as or better than BP. Carlos Ruiz had a year that is way outside his career norm, Gardner should hit leadoff, and when you have as much money as the Yankees you are going to have guys like Granderson hitting #8.

I think it is unreasonable to call BP a "glorified 8 hitter" when he wouldn't hit 8 on some of the best offenses in baseball and he is one of the best players at his position.

IMO, BP is a guy that you should like to have signed to a contract for the next few years, but in the Reds situation when you are going to try to sign a lot of young guys to long term contarcts you just can't afford to sign guys like Phillips if they want any more than 8-10 million dollars per year, and he is already 30 and has 3 years or so before he hits the downside of his career.
Why don't you compare Phillips to the Yankees' leadoff hitter last season?

Stray
05-01-2011, 12:33 PM
He's top 3 at his position and he's in his prime. It's laughable that some people would think Valaika could fill his shoes.

I get that the economics of the game might make it difficult for us to lock him up, but if it's possible we have to do it.

The DARK
05-01-2011, 05:35 PM
He's top 3 at his position and he's in his prime. It's laughable that some people would think Valaika could fill his shoes.

I get that the economics of the game might make it difficult for us to lock him up, but if it's possible we have to do it.

Agreed... perhaps not top 3, but definitely close. He's perhaps the best defensive 2B in the league and carries an excellent bat with a bit of power to boot. He's a team leader and has been with the Reds longer than almost everyone else in the clubhouse. We as fans shouldn't be telling the clubhouse to be cheap... this guy needs to be a face of the franchise.

Kingspoint
05-02-2011, 12:55 AM
Attendance is down league wide:thumbdown:

Not as bad as the NBA or the upcoming NFL season.

Kingspoint
05-02-2011, 12:56 AM
Janish should not be a major league starter.

That's just ignorance and arguing for arguing sake.

He's hitting .299 and playing Gold Glove Defense.

Kingspoint
05-02-2011, 12:59 AM
Were they? Still not convinced that he has the bat long term to keep the job.

Obviously they were.

He's hitting .299 and playing Gold Glove Defense.

He doesn't have to do it for years.

He only has to do it for one year or two years. That still makes him a Major League starter.

Most Major Leaguers aren't starters for more than five years. Two or three is fine.

DirtyBaker
05-02-2011, 03:02 AM
Like Dusty's view of Chris Heisey, some people will never be satisfied with the idea of Janish starting, regardless of how well he plays.

lonewolf371
05-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Obviously they were.

He's hitting .299 and playing Gold Glove Defense.

He doesn't have to do it for years.

He only has to do it for one year or two years. That still makes him a Major League starter.

Most Major Leaguers aren't starters for more than five years. Two or three is fine.
He's mashing line drives and having a career year. I'd like to see him walk a little more, though.

signalhome
05-02-2011, 06:28 PM
He's mashing line drives and having a career year. I'd like to see him walk a little more, though.

Good luck with that. Phillips' thoughts on OBP in 2009 (http://www.aolnews.com/2009/03/02/brandon-phillips-scoffs-at-obp/):


"I don't believe that on-base percentage stuff. That's overrated to me. If you get hits, you'll be on base. That's what it's about."

However, even without walking, he's still a very good player, and I'd hate to see him leave.

gilpdawg
05-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Obviously they were.

He's hitting .299 and playing Gold Glove Defense.

He doesn't have to do it for years.

He only has to do it for one year or two years. That still makes him a Major League starter.

Most Major Leaguers aren't starters for more than five years. Two or three is fine.

I need to see it for longer than 28 games before I say he's a ".299 hitter." But that's just me. I hope he does.

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

lonewolf371
05-03-2011, 12:35 AM
Good luck with that. Phillips' thoughts on OBP in 2009 (http://www.aolnews.com/2009/03/02/brandon-phillips-scoffs-at-obp/):

However, even without walking, he's still a very good player, and I'd hate to see him leave.
I was responding to a post about Janish, who has posted higher walk rates throughout most of his career.

signalhome
05-03-2011, 01:17 AM
I was responding to a post about Janish, who has posted higher walk rates throughout most of his career.

Haha, my mistake. Saw it was a thread about Phillips, just assumed Kingspoint and you were both referencing him.

As far as Janish goes, yeah, it's pretty discouraging to see his walk rate drop to 3.2%. His average is .039 points higher so far this year, but his OBP is .015 less even with the increased average, and his wOBA is actually under .300. However, his defense has been phenomenal. 5.0 UZR so far on the year (not much stock can be placed in early-season UZR, but he has looked great, so it seems to match what I've seen on the field).