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brm7675
04-29-2011, 03:44 PM
Call in sick, demand a trade or something because Dusty Baker is ruining this kids career. It is really sad how someone can be abused like this and someone doesn't step in. Either the cincy press needs to get nasty with Dusty and start calling him out or they need to go after Walt and demand to know HITH he can continue to allow Dusty to ruin a good young kid. This is nothing short of sad and reason enough to remove Dusty.:thumbdown:

HatchMo
04-29-2011, 03:46 PM
i think he should be playing, but its 25 games into the season. If he doesn't play all year i will agree with you.

RadfordVA
04-29-2011, 03:55 PM
I would say Heisey just needs to force the managers hand like any other young player. I dont think a .253 career lifetime average does that. Yeah hes looked good in spots but nothing earth shattering that equals out to a crime against humanity that he isnt starting regularly. Lets not forget he got a small opportunity last year and he didnt exactly flourish. From August 29th to September 12th He got to start 12 out of 14 games. He actually performed under is career average at .235 and OPS of .603. Hes a great guy off bench. Why cant we be happy we have one of those?

brm7675
04-29-2011, 03:58 PM
I would say Heisey just needs to force the managers hand like any other young player. I dont think a .253 career lifetime average does that. Yeah hes looked good in spots but nothing earth shattering that equals out to a crime against humanity that he isnt starting regularly. Lets not forget he got a small opportunity last year and he didnt exactly flourish. From August 29th to September 12th He got to start 12 out of 14 games. He actually performed under is career average at .235 and OPS of .603. Hes a great guy off bench. Why cant we be happy we have one of those?

Because the objective is to WIN THE GAME. And to accomplish that you PLAY THE BEST PLAYERS you have and we are not. We are not when Gomes is playing and we especially are not with the bum they have in LF hitting 5th tonight. We continue to have this pattern from Dusty that if he doesn't think or like you then you are screwed. Again If I am Heisey I go into Walt's office and say either Trade me or demote me because sitting on the bench even in Cincy is NOT advancing my career.

mu4103
04-29-2011, 04:06 PM
It is ridiculous to bring up a 5th OFer and play him more than your 4th OFer when he has had no production. Dusty said he wanted to play Heisey because he was hot and I only recall one maybe two since then.

Hermida on the other hand is the 5th OFer and gets the call again. The last game Dusty said that he played Hermida because of the match-up and "you got to know your players" Hermida went 0-4.

Since Hermida call-up on April 18:
-Hermida has had 12 AB with 0 hits and 0 BB and 6 K.
-Heisey has had 1 start and 11 AB: (only 2 hits, but 1 was a HR)- his OPS is still .802 (It's tough to hit when you are not in the line-up)

When Dusty starts having middle of the night "epiphonies" (I know I spelled that wrong) you know the Reds are in trouble.

So much for rewarding success. I'm sure Heisey is a tough enough kid to deal with it.

RadfordVA
04-29-2011, 04:12 PM
Because the objective is to WIN THE GAME.

You still didnt tell me exactly how Heisey helps them win? Just a gut feeling you have about him? Those numbers are even below what Gomes produces. Did those 2 diving catches in San Diego leave that big of an impression on everyone? If Heisey has anyone to blame for lack of playing time its himself for not seizing the opportunity. Even as a backup he hasnt set the world on fire. The other 2 back ups from opening day are even producing more at the plate then him. Cairo and Renteria.

RadfordVA
04-29-2011, 04:20 PM
Splits as a starter .223 .297 .360 .657
As a substitute .345 .409 .672 1.082

How can anyone argue that someone other than Heisey is to blame for him on his way to receiving treatment as an off the bench guy.

brm7675
04-29-2011, 04:25 PM
You still didnt tell me exactly how Heisey helps them win? Just a gut feeling you have about him? Those numbers are even below what Gomes produces. Did those 2 diving catches in San Diego leave that big of an impression on everyone? If Heisey has anyone to blame for lack of playing time its himself for not seizing the opportunity. Even as a backup he hasnt set the world on fire. The other 2 back ups from opening day are even producing more at the plate then him. Cairo and Renteria.

Hmmm because he is a better player? Look at the numbers...also if Mr. Hermida was so darn good why did he go to louisville and Heisey go to Cincy? What opportunity has Heisey had? I mean really.

mu4103
04-29-2011, 04:26 PM
You still didnt tell me exactly how Heisey helps them win? Just a gut feeling you have about him? Those numbers are even below what Gomes produces. Did those 2 diving catches in San Diego leave that big of an impression on everyone? If Heisey has anyone to blame for lack of playing time its himself for not seizing the opportunity. Even as a backup he hasnt set the world on fire. The other 2 back ups from opening day are even producing more at the plate then him. Cairo and Renteria.

Cairo - 46 AB: 4 R, 7 RBI, 1 HR, .283 avg., .320 OBP, OPS .688
Renteria - 32 AB, 2 R, 4 RBI, 0 HR, .313 avg., .343 OBP, OPS .687
Heisey - 32 AB: 5 R, 10 RBI, 2 HR, .250 avg, .333.OBP, OPS .802

I don't know want standard you are using but Heisey tops all of them (with 14 less AB than Cairo) except for a few points in avg. and OBP. In the limited number of AB the only difference between Heisey and Renteria is 2 hits. Heisey blows them all away in defense. So I assume you must just be looking at avg. What are you referring to - otherwise I would guess that you are using a gut feeling as you accused the other poster of.

mlh1981
04-29-2011, 04:27 PM
It's a good problem to have. Good organizations have depth throughout the organization, and you know that someone will get hurt. In steps Heisey.

I remember far worse backup outfielders in prior years.

mu4103
04-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Splits as a starter .223 .297 .360 .657
As a substitute .345 .409 .672 1.082

How can anyone argue that someone other than Heisey is to blame for him on his way to receiving treatment as an off the bench guy.

You are using a very small portion - Heisey did have the best Spring Training numbers of anyone but, Sappelt. There is no reason to assume that he is better off of the bench because he has not had a chance to prove himself everyday - as far as I see it.

defender
04-29-2011, 04:52 PM
Heisey has his role on the team, and is doing fine. Hermidia is probably been getting a couple extra starts, because at this point, he is headed back to AAA. If a player is doing well the way a manager uses him, maybe the manager should be praised.

brm7675
04-29-2011, 05:01 PM
Heisey has his role on the team, and is doing fine. Hermidia is probably been getting a couple extra starts, because at this point, he is headed back to AAA. If a player is doing well the way a manager uses him, maybe the manager should be praised.

Huh? What? What role? Outside of bat boy, what role has Heisey had? Why would you give someone you are going to send back to AAA any starts? When our manager does something to be praised for I will be the first...but I am willing to bet pigs will fly first before that happens...

mu4103
04-29-2011, 05:44 PM
Heisey has his role on the team, and is doing fine. Hermidia is probably been getting a couple extra starts, because at this point, he is headed back to AAA. If a player is doing well the way a manager uses him, maybe the manager should be praised.

1. If a player does well in a certain role - a manager should reward that success by allowing a larger role.

2. A manager should never get praised for rewarding poor results.

3. If someone is leaving they should get more starts???

BluegrassRedleg
04-29-2011, 06:05 PM
Calling for Dusty's head is just silly in my opinion. The guy has proven time and time again that he's a winner. That being said... I would like to hear some additional insight into why Heisey is not getting more starts. There MAY be a perfectly legit reason that we're not privy to, but I can't imagine what that might be. This offense has too many easy outs in the order right now.

brm7675
04-29-2011, 06:06 PM
Calling for Dusty's head is just silly in my opinion. The guy has proven time and time again that he's a winner. That being said... I would like to hear some additional insight into why Heisey is not getting more starts. There MAY be a perfectly legit reason that we're not privy to, but I can't imagine what that might be. This offense has too many easy outs in the order right now.

Only possible reason would be he is hurt. which if true he should be on the DL. there is no other possible reason.

mu4103
04-29-2011, 06:17 PM
Calling for Dusty's head is just silly in my opinion. The guy has proven time and time again that he's a winner. That being said... I would like to hear some additional insight into why Heisey is not getting more starts. There MAY be a perfectly legit reason that we're not privy to, but I can't imagine what that might be. This offense has too many easy outs in the order right now.

I agree, but the question does need to be asked.

Kiss the Baby00
04-29-2011, 08:04 PM
is it wrong to hope Hermida gets hurt so Dusty isnt tempted to use him?

mu4103
04-29-2011, 08:20 PM
is it wrong to hope Hermida gets hurt so Dusty isnt tempted to use him?

Dusty would just bring up another underperforming veteran anyway.

tkemmerer14
04-30-2011, 04:41 PM
piss piss piss

moan moan monan

RadfordVA
04-30-2011, 09:10 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/04/29/baker-on-lineup-heisey/

I think this explains exactly why dusty doesnt play heisey more right now. He knows more about Heiseys game than anyone on here. He is basically saying in not so many words that Heisey does well against fastball pitchers. Other pitchers not so much. Which would certainly explain his drastic splits as starter and substitute as most relievers that hes facing in pinch hit roles throw majority of fastballs. I dont see why people think Dusty or any other manager would willingly choose not to play the people who give them best chance to win. After all he is getting paid millions of dollars to make these decisions so Im pretty sure hes using all the info available which is way more than we have. You see Heisey on Tv for a few hours a week. He sees him every day on the field, in the locker room, batting practice. I trust his judgement on a player more than someone who may or may not actually watch his at bats on TV.

Natty Redlocks
04-30-2011, 11:37 PM
Man, I hate Dusty as much as anyone. But even I have a hard time finding crap to complain about so far. If his starting pitcher gives the team a chance, they usually win. Heisey is Matt Murton; I think that dude's playing in Japan now.

Who Dey Time
04-30-2011, 11:48 PM
If Gomes continues to struggle the way he has lately you'll see Heisey get some starts out in LF. But Heisey is and should be the 4th outfielder on the team. Stubbs and Bruce are going to get their 150+ games and Gomes should continue to be the #1 option in LF.

But I like that Dusty shows confidence in his players and, in more cases then not, those players will reward his patience with them. His track record speaks to that.

BAKER12
05-01-2011, 02:46 AM
I remember people complained in 2009 about Gomes not getting enough playing time. Now he is and people want Gomes out after one Month.

BAKER12
05-01-2011, 02:47 AM
Not exactly sure why the obsession with Heisey. He statistically is a better bench player and in the NL, bench guys get lots of AB's. It appears he is being used about right and is a solid # 4 OF

Vottomatic
05-01-2011, 07:14 AM
Isn't possible that a good team can be made to be mediocre by poor managing decisions?

Isn't possible that a great team can be made to be just good by poor managing decisions?

Absolutely.

This team won last year despite Dusty. It's the plain truth.

BAKER12
05-01-2011, 12:09 PM
And Dusty won despite his poor managing in Frisco and with the Flubs
The guy knows how to win baseball games

Who Dey Time
05-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Isn't possible that a good team can be made to be mediocre by poor managing decisions?

Isn't possible that a great team can be made to be just good by poor managing decisions?

Absolutely.

This team won last year despite Dusty. It's the plain truth.

If Dusty had a losing track record this might make sense. But, he has been a winner in San Francisco, Chicago and now Cincinnati. Guy can flat out manage and has a track record of success. Your comment is about the furthest thing from the truth.

Kiss the Baby00
05-01-2011, 02:48 PM
Not exactly sure why the obsession with Heisey. He statistically is a better bench player and in the NL, bench guys get lots of AB's. It appears he is being used about right and is a solid # 4 OF

right dude, except Hermida is playing over him. Heisey is only good enough to come up with the game on the line but not good enough to start.

o
k

mu4103
05-01-2011, 03:35 PM
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/04/29/baker-on-lineup-heisey/

I think this explains exactly why dusty doesnt play heisey more right now. He knows more about Heiseys game than anyone on here. He is basically saying in not so many words that Heisey does well against fastball pitchers. Other pitchers not so much. Which would certainly explain his drastic splits as starter and substitute as most relievers that hes facing in pinch hit roles throw majority of fastballs. I dont see why people think Dusty or any other manager would willingly choose not to play the people who give them best chance to win. After all he is getting paid millions of dollars to make these decisions so Im pretty sure hes using all the info available which is way more than we have. You see Heisey on Tv for a few hours a week. He sees him every day on the field, in the locker room, batting practice. I trust his judgement on a player more than someone who may or may not actually watch his at bats on TV.

So if Heisey is a fastball hitter, why bring in Hermida in the seventh with runners on against JJ. The announcer said that JJ had only thrown 2 off spee pitches last night.

I personally think Dusty manages to veterans egos. You can be successful that way. It gives the players a sense of security knowing they won't be benched. But I don't think it is an optimal way to manage as I believe a good managers rewards success. Whether or not one feels Heisey has been successful enough to earn PT. I have seen Dusty manage long enough to know that he plays players despite how bad they are playing and doesn't play players despite how good they are playing.

Gomes has certainly not played well enough to deserve all of the grace he has been given - especially being a defensive liability. I think, what Heisey has done defensively and offensively deserves a couple of starts per week. I don't think anybody in the OF has shown anything to indicate that they should play 7 games every week - the team was playing better when Dusy was rotating Heisey in. Now that they are playing poorly he is keeping with the same line-up. He tends to do that when players or the team are doing poorly.

Vottomatic
05-01-2011, 04:04 PM
If Dusty had a losing track record this might make sense. But, he has been a winner in San Francisco, Chicago and now Cincinnati. Guy can flat out manage and has a track record of success. Your comment is about the furthest thing from the truth.

Really?

Maybe those teams win it all with a better manager.

Some teams are good enough to be coached by Pee Wee Herman.

GOBCU33
05-01-2011, 07:23 PM
Gomes is struggling, Bruce has been struggling, Hermida is a hack. It is a crime and a shame to watch Heisey rot on the bench with these 3 playing over him night in and night out. Since that San Diego series where he lit up the Padres he has barely seen the field besides a pinch hit appearance every couple nights.

I will never understand why Heisey has not played more over this first month

Jack Burton
05-01-2011, 07:24 PM
Gomes is struggling, Bruce has been struggling, Hermida is a hack. It is a crime and a shame to watch Heisey rot on the bench with these 3 playing over him night in and night out. Since that San Diego series where he lit up the Padres he has barely seen the field besides a pinch hit appearance every couple nights.

I will never understand why Heisey has not played more over this first month

Because Gomes is dating dusty's daughter.... :lol:

nux fan
05-01-2011, 07:31 PM
baker feels he knows all

aldotcs
05-01-2011, 07:51 PM
Gomes is doing better defensively, thankfully. Heisey did a wonderful job at third today and I was glad to see him awesome catch in the seats and wanted to kick the fans for trying to interfere with it, even though technically it wouldn't have counted for fan interference.

GOBCU33
05-01-2011, 07:53 PM
Gomes is doing better defensively, thankfully. Heisey did a wonderful job at third today and I was glad to see him awesome catch in the seats and wanted to kick the fans for trying to interfere with it, even though technically it wouldn't have counted for fan interference.

That was not Heisey.. that was Valakia

Krawhitham
05-01-2011, 09:39 PM
If Dusty had a losing track record this might make sense. But, he has been a winner in San Francisco, Chicago and now Cincinnati. Guy can flat out manage and has a track record of success. Your comment is about the furthest thing from the truth.

Only 24 managers in 135 years have lost more games than Dusty

Who Dey Time
05-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Only 24 managers in 135 years have lost more games than Dusty

And only 21 managers in that same time frame have won more than Dusty. Anyone who thinks that Dusty has not done a very good job here doesn't get what they are talking about.

tkemmerer14
05-01-2011, 10:03 PM
And only 21 managers in that same time frame have won more than Dusty. Anyone who thinks that Dusty has not done a very good job here doesn't get what they are talking about.

THANK YOU!

Who Dey Time
05-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Really?

Maybe those teams win it all with a better manager.

Some teams are good enough to be coached by Pee Wee Herman.

You mean the Reds team that was predicted to finish middle of the pack in their own division last year? That team was good enough? Really?

The facts are that the players, staff, and manager all did a great job last season in winning the division and they all should be given some leeway here. Some of you act as if the season is over. They are .500 with 134 games left and are 2 games back.

aldotcs
05-01-2011, 10:14 PM
That was not Heisey.. that was Valakia

Oooops. Ignore that part of my post then. ;)

nux fan
05-01-2011, 11:25 PM
Baker is obdurate, and antiquated, he calls on Heisey who won games in San Diego with defense and offense, then does not play him then he gets a big hit today but Baker keeps steadfast to his .200 hitting walking machine

markymark69
05-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Because Gomes is dating dusty's daughter.... :lol:

That is awesome - too bad I didn't think of it.

markymark69
05-03-2011, 06:30 PM
Trying to look at things objectively and not go crazy with the fire Dusty comments or the Dusty hates him comments. We got that last year by the way with Janish - it's tired and ridiculous.

Although I do agree it is puzzling with Hermida getting starts ahead of Heisey - I'm sure there is a logical reason and not the goofball reasons that have been mentioned.

Heisey has not exactly seized his chance - although limited it has been. Heisey is not the first player who has had to wait his turn and he won't be the last. Gomes, to me has to pick it up and soon or we will see Heisey.

By the way - I think Heisey would take sitting the bench in the big leagues than playing everyday in the minor leagues.

There are a lot of things that managers do that do not make sense on the surface, but even though we think we know - we are not privy to all the info and all the numbers and all the hunches that managers have.

Please remember we are only 28 games into the season. There is plenty of time for Heisey to get his chance - when he does I hope he takes advantage - then all the Dusty bashers will have to move onto somthing else. Probably Sam LeCure not getting enough innings or something like that.