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View Full Version : Reds in panic mode..



brm7675
05-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Reds state they are going to cut Cueto's rehab short and recall him to start on Sat in place of Leake. This screams panic move as there is no question Cueto isn't ready. yes Leake stunk up the joint last night but come on, why rush Cueto back when it is clear he is not ready.:thumbdown:

markymark69
05-04-2011, 03:21 PM
I think panic is a bit strong. You can't judge his results to determine whether he is ready - you judge where he feels any pain or any discomfort after his starts and there have been no reports that he is having any setbacks in that regard.

Also, players only have so much that they can spend on a rehab - it has to be getting very close to his rehab time being up, which also would have something to with his being activated.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 03:29 PM
I think panic is a bit strong. You can't judge his results to determine whether he is ready - you judge where he feels any pain or any discomfort after his starts and there have been no reports that he is having any setbacks in that regard.

Also, players only have so much that they can spend on a rehab - it has to be getting very close to his rehab time being up, which also would have something to with his being activated.

But he was scheduled for more rehab starts and all of a sudden they change their minds?

markymark69
05-04-2011, 03:35 PM
But he was scheduled for more rehab starts and all of a sudden they change their minds?

It would have been one or two max - that doesn't make it a panic move. I'm sure they consulted with Rick Sweet and others before they made this decision.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 03:43 PM
It would have been one or two max - that doesn't make it a panic move. I'm sure they consulted with Rick Sweet and others before they made this decision.

Why send him to Dayton to continue rehab one day only to turn around the next day and recall him? Again no thought process here, just a panic move...

Maker_84
05-04-2011, 03:58 PM
right now the Reds should be panicking. Even if Cueto and Bailey do well, it's not going to help how awful the hitting has been. Walt needs to make some trades to get a few more bats

markymark69
05-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Why send him to Dayton to continue rehab one day only to turn around the next day and recall him? Again no thought process here, just a panic move...

I think that was Bailey. I never heard anything about Cueto going to Dayton.

Guess you've never changed your mind on anything.

It's amazing how you think every move they make involves no thought process.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 04:28 PM
I think that was Bailey. I never heard anything about Cueto going to Dayton.

Guess you've never changed your mind on anything.

It's amazing how you think every move they make involves no thought process.

Cueto was the one sent to Dayton, my guess is because louisville was on teh road and Dayton was at home. Also Cueto has not shown an ability to get to the 6th inning while Homer has. Again if you look at the entire thing it screams panic. Why do it?

Who Dey Time
05-04-2011, 04:50 PM
right now the Reds should be panicking. Even if Cueto and Bailey do well, it's not going to help how awful the hitting has been. Walt needs to make some trades to get a few more bats

Yes make some trades at the beginning of May and dismantle what was a division winning team last season.

Do you realize how illogical that sounds?

redhat
05-04-2011, 05:26 PM
right now the Reds should be panicking. Even if Cueto and Bailey do well, it's not going to help how awful the hitting has been. Walt needs to make some trades to get a few more bats
The Reds are second of 30 teams in runs scored. They're sixth in OPS; the only NL team ahead of them is the Cardinals.

Every team has some games where they can't score enough to win. If you focus on those, you're missing the big picture. Hitting is not an area where the Reds need major improvement.

What they need is much better pitching, especially starting pitching. Their starters are 29th of 30 teams in ERA, 28th in OPS against, 28th in home runs against, 25th in WHIP.

Bullpen stats are just middle of the pack, but part of that is an artifact of having to cover too many innings.

Natty Redlocks
05-04-2011, 05:30 PM
The Reds are second of 30 teams in runs scored. They're sixth in OPS; the only NL team ahead of them is the Cardinals.

Every team has some games where they can't score enough to win. If you focus on those, you're missing the big picture. Hitting is not an area where the Reds need major improvement.

What they need is much better pitching, especially starting pitching. Their starters are 29th of 30 teams in ERA, 28th in OPS against, 28th in home runs against, 25th in WHIP.

Bullpen stats are just middle of the pack, but part of that is an artifact of having to cover too many innings.

Well said; I think it's the fans that are panic mode, not the Reds.

Vottomatic
05-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Yes make some trades at the beginning of May and dismantle what was a division winning team last season.

Do you realize how illogical that sounds?

Will it still be illogical if they are in 3rd or 4th place come September?

Gee, let's rest our hopes on last year's success. Last time I checked, this is 2011, not 2010.

Hondo
05-04-2011, 06:36 PM
Cueto through 99 pitches in his last rehab start so this is hardly a panic...

brm7675
05-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Cueto through 99 pitches in his last rehab start so this is hardly a panic...

In what like 3+ innings? You can't have your starter throw 99 pitches in 3+ innings, again HE IS NOT READY but the Reds mag't is panicking...

Hondo
05-04-2011, 08:09 PM
In what like 3+ innings? You can't have your starter throw 99 pitches in 3+ innings, again HE IS NOT READY but the Reds mag't is panicking...

In 4 2/3 Innings

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4660/player?r=1

brm7675
05-04-2011, 08:23 PM
In 4 2/3 Innings

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4660/player?r=1

Oh wow 4 2/3 in AAA that's something to hang your hat on....:thumbdown:

Hondo
05-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Oh wow 4 2/3 in AAA that's something to hang your hat on....:thumbdown:

If he threw 99 Pitches over basically 5 Innings... Which was his 4th rehab start... He might as well throw 100 Pitches at the Big League level.

Who Dey Time
05-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Will it still be illogical if they are in 3rd or 4th place come September?

Gee, let's rest our hopes on last year's success. Last time I checked, this is 2011, not 2010.

At least you can correctly read the calendar. This team, as it stands, has the reigning MVP, is 2nd in the NL in scoring and has a young tough pitching staff. Right now they are struggling a bit but so does every team. If we are hovering around .500 come July 1, then you can talk about making a move.

Until then, you play with this group since they have proven in the past that they can turn it around. Anyone who is in favor of some huge maneuver to bolster the roster is in la la land.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 08:37 PM
If he threw 99 Pitches over basically 5 Innings... Which was his 4th rehab start... He might as well throw 100 Pitches at the Big League level.

5 innings and 100 pitches isn't good enough for the show. We need our starters to get at least 6 inning if not 7 with 100 pitches. He is NOT going to get the calls that he got in AAA or face batters who swing at anything down there up in teh show. IF he was ready, why was he heading to Dayton for another rehab start?

Who Dey Time
05-04-2011, 08:39 PM
5 innings and 100 pitches isn't good enough for the show. We need our starters to get at least 6 inning if not 7 with 100 pitches. He is NOT going to get the calls that he got in AAA or face batters who swing at anything down there up in teh show. IF he was ready, why was he heading to Dayton for another rehab start?

The rehab assignments are about building your arm strength back up to the point where you are ready to re-enter the rotation. If he threw 99 pitches in his last outing his arm is built back to where he is ready to come up whether it was in 3, 4, 5 or 9 innings.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 08:41 PM
The rehab assignments are about building your arm strength back up to the point where you are ready to re-enter the rotation. If he threw 99 pitches in his last outing his arm is built back to where he is ready to come up whether it was in 3, 4, 5 or 9 innings.

No it's not, you can't have your starting pitching only lasting 3-4 or 5 innings, you will kill your bullpen.

Who Dey Time
05-04-2011, 08:44 PM
No it's not, you can't have your starting pitching only lasting 3-4 or 5 innings, you will kill your bullpen.

In the majors that is correct. However, you completely miss the point of Cueto and Bailey going on rehab stints. They are down there for the SOLE purpose of being healthy enough to come up. If Cueto threw 99 pitches in 4 innings no one cares. Him throwing 99 says that he is ready to go.

brm7675
05-04-2011, 08:51 PM
In the majors that is correct. However, you completely miss the point of Cueto and Bailey going on rehab stints. They are down there for the SOLE purpose of being healthy enough to come up. If Cueto threw 99 pitches in 4 innings no one cares. Him throwing 99 says that he is ready to go.

how does it? If he blew through 99 pitches in less then 5 innings it tells me his control isn't there. Also again if he was ready then why didn't the Reds say that like they did with Homer? Why did they say they were sending him to Dayton for more rehab until Leake had the bad outing last night and then WHaM nope he is starting on Sat for the Reds in Chicago?

Hondo
05-04-2011, 08:51 PM
The rehab assignments are about building your arm strength back up to the point where you are ready to re-enter the rotation. If he threw 99 pitches in his last outing his arm is built back to where he is ready to come up whether it was in 3, 4, 5 or 9 innings.

Ding Ding Ding

*Correct*

Hondo
05-04-2011, 08:52 PM
how does it? If he blew through 99 pitches in less then 5 innings it tells me his control isn't there. Also again if he was ready then why didn't the Reds say that like they did with Homer? Why did they say they were sending him to Dayton for more rehab until Leake had the bad outing last night and then WHaM nope he is starting on Sat for the Reds in Chicago?

It's about getting the arm strength and pitch count up...

What don't you understand?

Who Dey Time
05-04-2011, 08:57 PM
how does it? If he blew through 99 pitches in less then 5 innings it tells me his control isn't there. Also again if he was ready then why didn't the Reds say that like they did with Homer? Why did they say they were sending him to Dayton for more rehab until Leake had the bad outing last night and then WHaM nope he is starting on Sat for the Reds in Chicago?


Here's the line....4.2IP, 5H, 2R (1ER), 2BB, 6K.....not terrible, not great but not overly wild in any sense.

And if he is physically ready to go and the team sees him as a better option than what is already here its pretty much a no brainer.....at least it is to those that get why he and Bailey were down there in the first place.

aldotcs
05-04-2011, 09:02 PM
Hee, I love the comment about the fans being in panic mode.
Every team has a slump. Every team has games where they are spanked. Leake had a bad outing when he's been going pretty strong. We are a month and a half into the season and I certainly hope they are ready to come back!
I wish I could go to tomorrow's game and see how Bailey does in his first game. :(

markymark69
05-05-2011, 12:03 PM
I believe I also heard Dusty say on a pregame recently that Cueto is working on a new pitch - which could explain the high-pitch count in that he is trying to master it. May not be the case - but could explain the situation. Where do you want him working on that new pitch? - in the minor leagues on a rehab - where it doesn't really matter how he performs.

Oh and BTW - the posters who said rehab stints are about getting back arm strength (for pitchers) is spot on. It's not about results - never has been - never will be - if it were they would never bring guys back.

Girevik
05-05-2011, 12:09 PM
I agree that the 99 pitches indicate that he's ready on an arm strength basis, but not being able to get out of the 5th concerns me. This bullpen has been hammered lately, and another guy that is going to go deep in a game is just going to compound that.