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cinreds21
05-05-2011, 03:33 AM
A week or so ago a guy from Baseball America (Ben Badler) mentioned a trade idea he had (meaning it's not rumored or anything like that.)
He thought of a trade that would help both teams. It's a prospect for prospect swap in Devin Mesoraco to the Red Sox for shortstop Jose Iglesias.
Mesoraco would give the Sox the catcher they desperately need as Salty and Tek are both struggling.
Iglesias would give the Reds a Gold Glove shortstop who could be in the bigs by September and could be the best short stop the Reds have had since Larkin.
It would also end the position speculation with Billy Hamilton, making him the Reds' second baseman of the future.
Cincinnati can do this because they have Grandal (who is already on the 40-man roster) and could possibly be ready ready for a September call up in 2012.

The DARK
05-05-2011, 03:52 AM
Interesting idea, but it hinges pretty heavily on Grandal's success (which he still has to prove at higher levels, as good a year as he's having) and Hernandez and Hanigan's ability to keep up their production. And Janish is already a gold glove shortstop, so all we'll really be seeing is a slight uptick in offensive production instead of the true power bat that Mes brings.

Also, sentimentally, I as a Reds fan love the idea of potentially having the best Reds catcher since Bench during this time.

I'd be much more keen on Grandal/Francisco for an elite 3B prospect, where there's going to be a major hole developing as Rolen loses playing time.

cinreds21
05-05-2011, 03:59 AM
Interesting idea, but it hinges pretty heavily on Grandal's success (which he still has to prove at higher levels, as good a year as he's having) and Hernandez and Hanigan's ability to keep up their production. And Janish is already a gold glove shortstop, so all we'll really be seeing is a slight uptick in offensive production instead of the true power bat that Mes brings.

Also, sentimentally, I as a Reds fan love the idea of potentially having the best Reds catcher since Bench during this time.

I'd be much more keen on Grandal/Francisco for an elite 3B prospect, where there's going to be a major hole developing as Rolen loses playing time.

I agree. It'll be hard giving up Mes, but you would get someone who could be a number two hitter and likely provide more offense than Janish.

As for finding that third baseman, I don't know who they could get. The only name that would be worth looking at would be Moustaksas but the Royals are not trading him.

lollipopcurve
05-05-2011, 07:21 AM
Terrible idea. Iglesias is a slick glove, but his bat is a question mark. Reds have Cozart and Janish already. Mesoraco is a potential middle of the order hitting catcher. You don't give up a player like that for a player who at best barely upgrades what you already have.

HokieRed
05-05-2011, 07:47 AM
Terrible idea. Iglesias is a slick glove, but his bat is a question mark. Reds have Cozart and Janish already. Mesoraco is a potential middle of the order hitting catcher. You don't give up a player like that for a player who at best barely upgrades what you already have.

What he said, with a ditto for Grandal.

lollipopcurve
05-05-2011, 08:22 AM
What he said, with a ditto for Grandal.

Agreed. The only good reason to look at traded either of these guys is if you have a possible major upgrade coming back.

HokieRed
05-05-2011, 08:45 AM
Agreed. The only good reason to look at traded either of these guys is if you have a possible major upgrade coming back.

And quite frankly it's hard for me to imagine an upgrade that would be greater than what you get from potential middle-of-the-order hitting catchers who might cover that position for you for a decade. Having one of those guys in place gives you a huge advantage in going out to make the other moves needed to do position by position upgrades. But this points to a difficulty in making trades that I think gets overlooked a lot as we hear the refrain that the FO should do this or that: it gets hard to make meaningful trades when your players are pretty good. Not only is there a shorter list of players to trade for, but you've also got to give up more, thus raising the risks of serious miscalculation. I think that's very much Walt's dilemma now.

lollipopcurve
05-05-2011, 08:49 AM
But this points to a difficulty in making trades that I think gets overlooked a lot as we hear the refrain that the FO should do this or that: it gets hard to make meaningful trades when your players are pretty good. Not only is there a shorter list of players to trade for, but you've also got to give up more, thus raising the risks of serious miscalculation. I think that's very much Walt's dilemma now.

Absolutely. Trades are hard to make. As they say, you've got to be willing to give to get, and I think there are GMs out there who are petrified to make a mistake and will only do a deal if they feel they're somehow outfoxing their trade partner. I don't put Jocketty in that category -- I don't think he's afraid to give up talent and pull the trigger. But I do think he's got some budget restrictions that will make it tough for him to bring in (and keep) a big time player in exchange for prospects.

_Sir_Charles_
05-05-2011, 10:01 AM
I was under the impression that Iglasies (sp?) was an excellent defender, but a question mark with the bat. How is that different from what we've already got with Cozart? Even if he IS better...is he so much better that we'd part with Mesoraco? I don't see it.

Besides, isn't Boston looking for a catcher who's ready RIGHT NOW? IMO, I think we should dangle Ramon Hernandez out there and see if there are any bites. Certainly doesn't hurt to listen. And at some point this season, Devin is going to force his way onto the big club.

GOYA
05-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Iglesias is hitting .221/.250/.221 with Pawtucket. He's also made 4 errors already at SS. But granted, he is only 21.

Personally, I would prefer to stick with Cozart.

If we're going to trade Mes or Grandal, I think we can get something better.

HokieRed
05-05-2011, 11:10 AM
By way of reinforcing the previous posts about the wisdom of not trading Mes or Grandal for Iglesias--with which I totally agree--I'd remind RZers of the love shown over the years here (not by me) for Reid Brignac. Current line for him is OPS .456, with a .206
SLG. The lesson I draw from this is to be exceedingly careful in trading for shortstops. Your guy that can't hit is likely to be just as good as their guy who can't hit. I think we tend to underrate Janish, Cozart, and, for that matter, Kris Negron. We'd have to give away a whole lot to do significantly better than one of those guys. In fact, all the way down our minor league system, this club is now rich in shortstops. Short of bringing in somebody like Stephen Drew, who's going to cost you somebody most RZers would put on their untouchable list, I wouldn't be looking to improve this club at SS, just because we have so many credible in-house options.

OnBaseMachine
05-05-2011, 11:12 AM
Terrible idea. Iglesias is a slick glove, but his bat is a question mark. Reds have Cozart and Janish already. Mesoraco is a potential middle of the order hitting catcher. You don't give up a player like that for a player who at best barely upgrades what you already have.

I agree with this.

REDblooded
05-05-2011, 02:17 PM
Not to mention the intangibles in leadership that you'd be giving away with Mes.

JKam
05-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Plus aren't all Red Sox (and Yankee) prospects usually overrated?

I'm happy to keep Mes, and I'm fine with Janish/Cozart unless there is a clear upgrade. This Red Sox prospect is not a clear upgrade.

GOYA
05-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Not to mention the intangibles in leadership that you'd be giving away with Mes.

What gives you the impression Mes has leadership abilities?

camisadelgolf
05-06-2011, 06:55 PM
What gives you the impression Mes has leadership abilities?
All the scouting reports that bring it up.

urdun
05-07-2011, 05:31 AM
I was under the impression that Iglasies (sp?) was an excellent defender, but a question mark with the bat. How is that different from what we've already got with Cozart? Even if he IS better...is he so much better that we'd part with Mesoraco? I don't see it.

Besides, isn't Boston looking for a catcher who's ready RIGHT NOW? IMO, I think we should dangle Ramon Hernandez out there and see if there are any bites. Certainly doesn't hurt to listen. And at some point this season, Devin is going to force his way onto the big club.

i know a sox fan who acts like iglesias is the 2nd coming of omar vizquel. grandal and felix perez for iglesias and bard?

Scrap Irony
05-07-2011, 11:08 AM
A middle of the order catcher is inherently more valuable than a SS with a questionable stick. It's one of the extra little pieces that allows a team to cheat a little on offense at another position.

In other words, a catcher like Mesoraco would allow a team to play a SS like Iglesias.

So the question then becomes, which is rarer: a SS like Iglesias or a catcher like Mesoraco.

Right now, that's a fairly obvious answer.

bellhead
05-07-2011, 11:21 AM
A middle of the order catcher is inherently more valuable than a SS with a questionable stick. It's one of the extra little pieces that allows a team to cheat a little on offense at another position.

In other words, a catcher like Mesoraco would allow a team to play a SS like Iglesias.

So the question then becomes, which is rarer: a SS like Iglesias or a catcher like Mesoraco.

Right now, that's a fairly obvious answer.

that hits the nail on the head. With Mes. Jarnish could hit .270 with no dingers all year and we would be all right.

mth123
05-07-2011, 01:34 PM
A middle of the order catcher is inherently more valuable than a SS with a questionable stick. It's one of the extra little pieces that allows a team to cheat a little on offense at another position.

In other words, a catcher like Mesoraco would allow a team to play a SS like Iglesias.

So the question then becomes, which is rarer: a SS like Iglesias or a catcher like Mesoraco.

Right now, that's a fairly obvious answer.

"shake a tree and 10 gloves fall out, but bats are hard to find"

Vottomatic
05-08-2011, 10:04 AM
I don't want to trade Mesoraco. I'm giddily anticipating his major league debut.

lonewolf371
05-08-2011, 10:40 AM
What about dealing a major leaguer? You could unblock Mes and get some value in return.

edabbs44
05-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Iglesias was called up this morning.

Pony Boy
05-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Iglesias was called up this morning.

Odd move by the Sox. Why bring a guy up that is clearly not ready to hit MLB pitching just to sit on the bench as a backup SS? The Sox have really rushed Iglesias. He should be playing every day in AA. He shouldn't be in AAA, much less the majors.

Scrap Irony
05-10-2011, 12:43 PM
I think it's a really astute move by the Sox.

Iglesias will likely never hit all that well. But, right now, they can claim he's young for the league and insist that all he needs are reps and strength. Meanwhile, over the next two or three years, his trade value is still solid and might perhaps net them a better overall piece.

If they'd have played him at the proper league, he'd be Miguel Rojas.

lonewolf371
05-10-2011, 01:59 PM
Odd move by the Sox. Why bring a guy up that is clearly not ready to hit MLB pitching just to sit on the bench as a backup SS? The Sox have really rushed Iglesias. He should be playing every day in AA. He shouldn't be in AAA, much less the majors.
They'll probably send him back down once Scutaro is healthy.

fearofpopvol1
05-10-2011, 02:49 PM
Mesoraco is one of the few prospects I would be very reluctant to trade unless the haul was gigantic and I don't think Iglesias is enough.

Catchers who are good behind the plate and can hit are a very rare breed. It remains to be seen if that will be Mez at the Show, but he has a good shot.