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View Full Version : Good/bad Cueto for Leake?



ntorvik
05-05-2011, 07:26 PM
Cueto is scheduled to major his first start of the season Sunday against the Cubs, which would drop Leake out of the rotation. I'm not sure how I feel about that as Leake has pitched pretty well this season so far, he has just had a few extra off the field distractions that haven't helped his cause. I'm not sure if it should be Leake or Wood, but it seems like Leake is going to get the bad end of the deal.

Hondo
05-05-2011, 07:49 PM
I think Leake will actually do better in the bullpen... It seems he just cruises through the batting order the first time or 2 around but then he gets hammered in the 4th-5th Innings...

So I think he will really help the bullpen going 2-3 Innings at a time as a long man!

brm7675
05-05-2011, 08:09 PM
At this point horrible move because I don't think Johnny C is even close to ready. I will be shocked if he goes more then 4 innings with fewer then 4-5 runs, even worse if wind is blowing out. No reason to rush him back, didn't show much in rehab starts unlike Homer but that be dam. And NO Leake should not go to the pen, he needs to go down to Louisville and continue to work as a starter. Reds have already ruined one talented arm in Chapman, why ruin two...but trust me they will.

BAKER12
05-05-2011, 08:14 PM
If Leake is not deemed to be one of our 5 best starters he should be shopped and we should get a starting 3B for him
It is a waste to have him throw meaningless innings as the pen is set with Nick, Chap and CoCo and Ondrusek and Brey as well
The Reds have a ridiculous wealth of arms at this point and if we want to win NOW we need a quality bat
One thought, Alex Gordon of KC can play 3B and is doing a good job in LF now
How about Leake for Gordon?
Would you be a gambler and trade the young pitcher for a promising guy that appears to have found himself?
He plays 3B until Rolen is ready and goes to LF if Rolen comes back

brm7675
05-05-2011, 08:33 PM
If Leake is not deemed to be one of our 5 best starters he should be shopped and we should get a starting 3B for him
It is a waste to have him throw meaningless innings as the pen is set with Nick, Chap and CoCo and Ondrusek and Brey as well
The Reds have a ridiculous wealth of arms at this point and if we want to win NOW we need a quality bat
One thought, Alex Gordon of KC can play 3B and is doing a good job in LF now
How about Leake for Gordon?
Would you be a gambler and trade the young pitcher for a promising guy that appears to have found himself?
He plays 3B until Rolen is ready and goes to LF if Rolen comes back

We have a LF, Gomes is da man, no reason to add anything there..:thumbup:

brm7675
05-05-2011, 08:48 PM
Why would the Royals make that deal?

BAKER12
05-05-2011, 08:52 PM
The Royals could use pitching and Leake is going to be a good pitcher. KC has two good guys (Duffy and Montgomery at 3A) but the MLB rotation is not good. Royals called up their top prospect Hosmer today, he takes over at 1B, I bet they would have a strong interest in Leake.

DocRed
05-06-2011, 11:22 AM
No brainer...Leake to the pen.

markymark69
05-06-2011, 11:39 AM
I got the impression from the broadcast yesterday - I think it may have been the pre-game - that Leake to the bullpen wasn't necessarily a permanent thing. I'm not sure exactly what that means - quasi sixth starter - spot start here and there or what.

It would seem that if the Reds began to get the innings from the rotation that they hope to there wouldn't be many innings for Leake.

I don't think trade is the answer and I doubt they used a No. 1 pick for him to be a long man. I guess it's a good problem to have.

Roush's socks
05-06-2011, 11:18 PM
Having too much starting pitching is never bad. What seems like a surplus one day can quickly turn into a shortage. I like Lecure as the long relief guy. I think he would be a better option there than most teams have. Lecure would start on some MLB teams. I guess Leake would be an upgrade, but I just don't think it will be long before he's back in the rotation. Cueto and Bailey are both coming back from injury, and especially Cueto is still unproven. Plus Arroyo may need a little time off at some point since he is still recovering from Mono. Also, Wood has looked pretty iffy at times and if he struggles could lose his job to Leake.

Hondo
05-07-2011, 02:20 AM
Having too much starting pitching is never bad. What seems like a surplus one day can quickly turn into a shortage. I like Lecure as the long relief guy. I think he would be a better option there than most teams have. Lecure would start on some MLB teams. I guess Leake would be an upgrade, but I just don't think it will be long before he's back in the rotation. Cueto and Bailey are both coming back from injury, and especially Cueto is still unproven. Plus Arroyo may need a little time off at some point since he is still recovering from Mono. Also, Wood has looked pretty iffy at times and if he struggles could lose his job to Leake.

I really agree but this team sure could use an actual ACE... I doubt the Mariners will be trading Felix Hernadez so the next guy is Josh Johnson who will most certainly be moved at the deadline or in the off season...

The Marlins wont pay him the 13.75 Million in 2012 and 2013...

Especially when Hanly Ramirez Salaries in 2012 and 2013 is 15 Million...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/heyman-on-.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

I would think the Reds rich farm system could get this done...

having Josh Johnson at 13.75 Million with Cordero's 12 Million coming off the Books will be perfect...

DirtyBaker
05-07-2011, 02:43 AM
Cueto's going to get better, but his ERA of 6+ in AAA tells me he could use a little more rehab. I think it's premature.

signalhome
05-07-2011, 02:36 PM
Cueto's going to get better, but his ERA of 6+ in AAA tells me he could use a little more rehab. I think it's premature.

I don't think management looks at numbers at all while a player is rehabbing. They don't care about results, only whether or not they were able to work without pain or any setbacks.

Hondo
05-07-2011, 05:29 PM
I don't think management looks at numbers at all while a player is rehabbing. They don't care about results, only whether or not they were able to work without pain or any setbacks.

Correct. It's all about building up arm strength...

Hondo
05-08-2011, 04:21 PM
At this point horrible move because I don't think Johnny C is even close to ready. I will be shocked if he goes more then 4 innings with fewer then 4-5 runs, even worse if wind is blowing out. No reason to rush him back, didn't show much in rehab starts unlike Homer but that be dam. And NO Leake should not go to the pen, he needs to go down to Louisville and continue to work as a starter. Reds have already ruined one talented arm in Chapman, why ruin two...but trust me they will.

You better hope Cueto IMPLODES here in the next few Innings or you're dead red wrong... which is the case most of the time.

:p

ntorvik
05-09-2011, 01:54 PM
Cueto, Bailey: 12 Innings, 1 ER, 11 Ks, not too shabby

brm7675
05-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Cueto, Bailey: 12 Innings, 1 ER, 11 Ks, not too shabby

And those two outings were against what major hitting teams? oh wait...the Cubs and Stros....sorry not that impressive.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 02:28 PM
You better hope Cueto IMPLODES here in the next few Innings or you're dead red wrong... which is the case most of the time.

:p

He last what...6 innins and was over 100+ pitches, sorry but with that many pitches I want at least 7 full innings.

SidneySlicker
05-09-2011, 02:54 PM
And those two outings were against what major hitting teams? oh wait...the Cubs and Stros....sorry not that impressive.

Come on dude. They can only pitch against who they're matched up against. They made their first starts of the season. Whether or not you believe the Cubs and the Stros are great hitting teams is irrellevant at this point. It was important for them to come out and throw strikes and command thier pitches against major league hitters. No one said that they were gonna be cy young winners, but they both showed last year that there is reason to believe that they are going to be valuable parts to this rotation this year, and last Friday and Sunday left no reason to believe the same.

signalhome
05-09-2011, 03:10 PM
Come on dude. They can only pitch against who they're matched up against. They made their first starts of the season. Whether or not you believe the Cubs and the Stros are great hitting teams is irrellevant at this point. It was important for them to come out and throw strikes and command thier pitches against major league hitters. No one said that they were gonna be cy young winners, but they both showed last year that there is reason to believe that they are going to be valuable parts to this rotation this year, and last Friday and Sunday left no reason to believe the same.

Good points. Also, the Cubs are #7 in the NL in wOBA, and the Astros are #8. They are average teams offensively, so no reason to discredit their performance just because of the opponents.

Fun unrelated fact: the Reds are actually #2 in the NL in wOBA, behind the Cardinals. I would not have imagined that; I guess that's my mind playing tricks on me, telling me the Reds are worse offensively than they actually are. I haven't been giving them enough credit.

bounty37h
05-09-2011, 04:19 PM
Come on dude. They can only pitch against who they're matched up against. They made their first starts of the season. Whether or not you believe the Cubs and the Stros are great hitting teams is irrellevant at this point. It was important for them to come out and throw strikes and command thier pitches against major league hitters. No one said that they were gonna be cy young winners, but they both showed last year that there is reason to believe that they are going to be valuable parts to this rotation this year, and last Friday and Sunday left no reason to believe the same.

I agree with you SS. I think he is just baiting people and trying to argue just to argue.

RedsFanInBama
05-09-2011, 04:23 PM
And those two outings were against what major hitting teams? oh wait...the Cubs and Stros....sorry not that impressive.
So your previous assessment of Cueto was based on how he pitched in AAA games, but now against a major league team, it's too early to make a judgment?

brm7675
05-09-2011, 05:17 PM
So your previous assessment of Cueto was based on how he pitched in AAA games, but now against a major league team, it's too early to make a judgment?

My view is that I want to see more from Cueto, I feel another coupld of starts in AAA or lower levels to extend him out to 7-8 innings were in order and since the Reds decided against that, I am not going to say he is ready just because he pitched okay vs. a poor Cubs team on a pitchers day weather wise. He still threw way to many pitches and didn't get past 6 full innings.

gilpdawg
05-10-2011, 08:21 AM
I think Leake will actually do better in the bullpen... It seems he just cruises through the batting order the first time or 2 around but then he gets hammered in the 4th-5th Innings...

So I think he will really help the bullpen going 2-3 Innings at a time as a long man!
This seems to be the prevailing thought around these parts, but chew on this. Taken from edabbs44 in ORG.

I wonder if the Leake "2nd and 3rd time seeing someone" thing is getting a little too overblown. Check this out, career OPS numbers by 1st, 2nd and 3rd time seeing the batter:

Leake - .695/.716/.865
Arroyo - .727/.751/.767
Cueto - .764/.729/.826
Volquez - .728/.757/.752
Wood - .607/.599/.926
Homer - .754/.721/.862

Leake in 2011 - .709/.721/.844

Leake is 2nd best 1st time around and 2nd best 2nd time around. Middle of the pack 3rd time around.

ntorvik
05-10-2011, 05:16 PM
Leake looked good coming out the bullpen yesterday huh? I think he could fit in well, along with Lecure, in our bullpen. I think Cueto and Bailey give us the best chances as far as wins are concerned. I understand the "look at who they played" argument to a point, but all of these guys are major league hitters and they are in the league for a reason. It's not like they are pitching against single A guys. Give them some credit, they deserve that much.

RedLegsToday
05-14-2011, 08:40 PM
i am going to go with Good on this move. :D