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View Full Version : Dusty lost faith...



brm7675
05-09-2011, 02:38 PM
So Chapman is a stud yet you don't use him? So we are now just paying that kid to sit down in the bullpe and do nothing? Again, someone needs to slap both Walt and Dusty. Chapman is being abused/misused and having his growth as a pitcher stunted by the Reds. You don't need him in cincy right now in the pen, you need him in Lousiville starting every 5th day and learning, yes learning how to pitch. What a waste...:thumbdown:

RedsFanInBama
05-09-2011, 04:14 PM
He should be closing or starting, bottom line.

I didn't like it when we took him out of the rotation in Louisville last year and moved him to the bullpen, and I hate it more now.

Natty Redlocks
05-09-2011, 04:17 PM
Dude is a huge investment. I seriously doubt Dusty has the final say in how he's used; I certainly hope not.

Stray
05-09-2011, 04:22 PM
Off of the top of my head Dusty has used Chapman quite a bit in the last few weeks. He's not very good pitching in multiple games in a row and has struggled with his command in his last couple of outings, which would explain why he wasn't used at the end of the Chicago series. There isn't a team in baseball that can hide a pitcher in the bullpen, when you're up here you will be used.

That said, I do agree that he needs to be working in a starting rotation. I had hopes that he could be a lights out setup man this year, which would have been great, but he's unable to setup or close since he can't pitch that often (w/o losing effectiveness). If all he's going to be is a 7th inning specialist I would rather him be in AAA starting.

texasdave
05-09-2011, 04:26 PM
In the month of April the Reds played 26 games and Chapman appeared in 13 of them. In the month of May the Reds have played 7 games and Chapman has appeared once.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 05:07 PM
In the month of April the Reds played 26 games and Chapman appeared in 13 of them. In the month of May the Reds have played 7 games and Chapman has appeared once.

that is an INCREDIBLE WASTE OF INCREDIBLE TALENT...:(

BAKER12
05-09-2011, 06:35 PM
I (and my name is not Walt, Bob or Dusty) would send him to Triple A for two weeks or three and get his pitch count up so he can join the rotation when we trade Wood or Leake along with Heisey and a high level prospect to the Mets for Reyes and Beltran. Beltran would have a rebirth under Dusty and Reyes is a stud. Let's get this done and win the Central, NL and play for all the marbles. Having prospects and being lauded for that is fun, having victory parades is FUNNER!!!!

brm7675
05-09-2011, 06:51 PM
I (and my name is not Walt, Bob or Dusty) would send him to Triple A for two weeks or three and get his pitch count up so he can join the rotation when we trade Wood or Leake along with Heisey and a high level prospect to the Mets for Reyes and Beltran. Beltran would have a rebirth under Dusty and Reyes is a stud. Let's get this done and win the Central, NL and play for all the marbles. Having prospects and being lauded for that is fun, having victory parades is FUNNER!!!!

We can't afford one of those players let alone both...

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I (and my name is not Walt, Bob or Dusty) would send him to Triple A for two weeks or three and get his pitch count up so he can join the rotation when we trade Wood or Leake along with Heisey and a high level prospect to the Mets for Reyes and Beltran. Beltran would have a rebirth under Dusty and Reyes is a stud. Let's get this done and win the Central, NL and play for all the marbles. Having prospects and being lauded for that is fun, having victory parades is FUNNER!!!!
Two or three weeks? He needs a whole season at AAA, maybe more to get his control good enough to become a starter. And even still, pitch control doesn't just pop out of the ground; most guys have it or they don't. So really, it's arguably a long-shot if Chapman ever becomes a starter. You think Volquez is bad? Chapman would throw pitches all over the place over 5-7 innings.

It's like everyone on here honestly believes that Dusty sits down and deliberately picks the more dumb decision without considering anything.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 06:57 PM
Two or three weeks? He needs a whole season at AAA, maybe more to get his control good enough to become a starter. And even still, pitch control doesn't just pop out of the ground; most guys have it or they don't. So really, it's arguably a long-shot if Chapman ever becomes a starter. You think Volquez is bad? Chapman would throw pitches all over the place over 5-7 innings.

It's like everyone on here honestly believes that Dusty sits down and deliberately picks the more dumb decision without considering anything.

We don't know what Chapman can or can't do as a starter because he has not learned how to be a starter. At one time Randy Johnson couldn't find the plate to save his life, but with time in the minor leagues with good coaches look what happen to him.

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 07:00 PM
We don't know what Chapman can or can't do as a starter because he has not learned how to be a starter. At one time Randy Johnson couldn't find the plate to save his life, but with time in the minor leagues with good coaches look what happen to him.
I'm talking about when he was starting in the minor leagues last season.

Maybe he could develop that control. I'm not completely opposed to sending him down to AAA to be a starter, but it would take a long time before he developed enough control to start in the majors. I can see the reasoning for having him in the bullpen.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 07:04 PM
I'm talking about when he was starting in the minor leagues last season.

Maybe he could develop that control. I'm not completely opposed to sending him down to AAA to be a starter, but it would take a long time before he developed enough control to start in the majors. I can see the reasoning for having him in the bullpen.

Why do you believe it would take a long time?

The DARK
05-09-2011, 07:06 PM
How do we know that there's not an injury concern here, especially if his control or velocity were off his last few outings? I'd be more worried about Chapman than bashing Dusty.

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 07:09 PM
Why do you believe it would take a long time?
Because you don't develop control over night. Randy Johnson played in the big leagues for four full seasons before his walk rate got down to acceptable levels. You may get Randy Johnson production eventually, but it takes a lot of time to get there. Time that you may have guys like Votto, who may not be around when your Randy Johnson project reaches fruition.

Krawhitham
05-09-2011, 07:14 PM
So Chapman is a stud yet you don't use him? So we are now just paying that kid to sit down in the bullpe and do nothing? Again, someone needs to slap both Walt and Dusty. Chapman is being abused/misused and having his growth as a pitcher stunted by the Reds. You don't need him in cincy right now in the pen, you need him in Lousiville starting every 5th day and learning, yes learning how to pitch. What a waste...:thumbdown:

You never had faith in Dusty to lose

brm7675
05-09-2011, 07:17 PM
How do we know that there's not an injury concern here, especially if his control or velocity were off his last few outings? I'd be more worried about Chapman than bashing Dusty.

If there was an injury issue why did he get up in games and warm up and then sit down? Also isn't it the managers job to handle players?

brm7675
05-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Because you don't develop control over night. Randy Johnson played in the big leagues for four full seasons before his walk rate got down to acceptable levels. You may get Randy Johnson production eventually, but it takes a lot of time to get there. Time that you may have guys like Votto, who may not be around when your Randy Johnson project reaches fruition.

Not if they keep delaying it. Get him down there NOW, let him work NOW, why wait till later?

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Not if they keep delaying it. Get him down there NOW, let him work NOW, why wait till later?
Because if he takes a year or two to develop control then he only helps the major league team with Votto in his prime for 1 or 0 years.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 07:33 PM
Because if he takes a year or two to develop control then he only helps the major league team with Votto in his prime for 1 or 0 years.

he is not helping the team now, and why worry about votto's time, the concern should be devlopeing this kid.

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 07:42 PM
he is not helping the team now, and why worry about votto's time, the concern should be devlopeing this kid.
He's pitched 12.2 innings with an ERA of 2.13. He's currently tied for the team lead in holds. How is that not helping the team?

brm7675
05-09-2011, 07:45 PM
He's pitched 12.2 innings with an ERA of 2.13. He's currently tied for the team lead in holds. How is that not helping the team?

Because Bray can do the same thing maybe even better.

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Because Bray can do the same thing maybe even better.
Bray can't pitch every night or every inning. Always better to have two good relievers than one.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Bray can't pitch every night or every inning. Always better to have two good relievers than one.

We have Logan, we have Nick, soon to have Jose and others, again if our Bullpen sucked then maybe, but in the "best" interest of the "team" long term, he is better suited to be in Louisville pitching every 5th day and working on arm strength, durability and control.

lonewolf371
05-09-2011, 08:25 PM
We have Logan, we have Nick, soon to have Jose and others, again if our Bullpen sucked then maybe, but in the "best" interest of the "team" long term, he is better suited to be in Louisville pitching every 5th day and working on arm strength, durability and control.
That might be true, but he's still definitely better than Logan, Nick, Bray, Jose, etc. He upgrades the bullpen. That's all I'm saying; there's logic behind it.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 08:32 PM
That might be true, but he's still definitely better than Logan, Nick, Bray, Jose, etc. He upgrades the bullpen. That's all I'm saying; there's logic behind it.

Better then Logan, Nick, Bray? How? If he is better then why didn't he pitch this weekend, why instead did Dusty go to Logan, Nick and Bray over him? People are amazed by his speed, and don't grasp he is a thrower and not a pitcher. He needs work..

RedsFanInBama
05-09-2011, 10:06 PM
Basing how we handle Chapman on Votto seems like a very bad idea. He's talented enough to be handled independently of any other player. If we hadn't freaked out last year he'd either be starting games for us right now or he'd be close to it.

mroby85
05-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Bump lol

RedsFanInBama
05-11-2011, 02:07 AM
What can we expect, really? The guy was trying to learn how to pitch and we took him away from that and said, "Come throw hard for us."

Vottomatic
05-11-2011, 07:42 AM
Throwing 105 mph is one thing. Throwing 105 mph for strikes is another.

Send Chapman down. He needs to work on some things.