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View Full Version : Plan? We don't need no stinking plan..



brm7675
05-09-2011, 06:21 PM
Okay so lets see here. The Reds have 2, yes count them 2 SP on the major league roster with some very "HIGH" upside for the coming years. You have one who could mature into a Randy Johnson type with overpowering fastball and such. You have another who while not possessing anything overpower, the ability to be a very nice strong depenable #3 guy who could be a yearly 200+ inning guy. So what are these two possible high ceiling pitchers doing presently? Why they are sitting out in the Reds bullpen. Why you ask would you put 2 so highly prized pitchers in your bullpen which is already full of talent with even more ready to join it very soon? Well that is the question...

What is the plan by the Reds for Mike Leake and A. Chapman? Or better yet do they even have a plan in place?

webbbj
05-09-2011, 06:30 PM
to be very good to great major league baseball players

Hondo
05-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Okay so lets see here. The Reds have 2, yes count them 2 SP on the major league roster with some very "HIGH" upside for the coming years. You have one who could mature into a Randy Johnson type with overpowering fastball and such. You have another who while not possessing anything overpower, the ability to be a very nice strong depenable #3 guy who could be a yearly 200+ inning guy. So what are these two possible high ceiling pitchers doing presently? Why they are sitting out in the Reds bullpen. Why you ask would you put 2 so highly prized pitchers in your bullpen which is already full of talent with even more ready to join it very soon? Well that is the question...

What is the plan by the Reds for Mike Leake and A. Chapman? Or better yet do they even have a plan in place?

Chapman will eventually be a starter. Leake should be a Starter as well... But right now both those guys in the Bullpen make the entire staff better...

This team really needs an Innings eater like Leake in the Bullpen...

brm7675
05-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Chapman will eventually be a starter. Leake should be a Starter as well... But right now both those guys in the Bullpen make the entire staff better...

This team really needs an Innings eater like Leake in the Bullpen...

They have innings eaters in Lecure, Malloney, Fisher....you don't put a kid like Leake down in your pen to pitch maybe a inning here or an inning there and who knows when. I'm sorry I don't remember Cliff Lee pitching out of the pen ever, or Greg Maddux or any quality starting pitcher who came into the pros as a starter. There is a HUGE difference in being a bullpen pitcher and a starting pitcher, and to abuse both Leake and Chapman that way is almost criminal.:thumbdown:

Krawhitham
05-09-2011, 08:31 PM
Chapman is the future closer, they just have not announce it yet.

Over 6 years Chapman will average 6 million per, not a bad price for a closer

brm7675
05-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Chapman is the future closer, they just have not announce it yet.

Over 6 years Chapman will average 6 million per, not a bad price for a closer

Why in god's green earth would you waste the talent this kid has on a position that can be filled by lesser pitchers. If the Reds do this move it would be the dumbest move they have made since trading Frank Robinson.:thumbdown:

Stray
05-09-2011, 08:47 PM
Walt has been around a long time, I highly doubt he's operating without a plan.

I do agree that Chapman needs to become a starter, but I disagree with you that the only way for him to accomplish this is by playing in AAA and working on it for a year. Tampa turned David Price (I think that is who it was) into a starter after he got a full year in a big league bullpen under his belt.

I'm not saying Chapman can do what Price did, but like another poster said, if he's making our bullpen better then I have a hard time getting upset about it.

brm7675
05-09-2011, 08:54 PM
Walt has been around a long time, I highly doubt he's operating without a plan.

I do agree that Chapman needs to become a starter, but I disagree with you that the only way for him to accomplish this is by playing in AAA and working on it for a year. Tampa turned David Price (I think that is who it was) into a starter after he got a full year in a big league bullpen under his belt.

I'm not saying Chapman can do what Price did, but like another poster said, if he's making our bullpen better then I have a hard time getting upset about it.

David Price was a pitcher when he got into pro ball. Chapman is a thrower who needs to learn how to be a pitcher. Price was ML ready they used him in the pen for the final part of the season when they went to the WS to prep him for major league hitters. He already knew how to pitch, Chapman doesn't.

Stray
05-10-2011, 12:41 AM
David Price was a pitcher when he got into pro ball. Chapman is a thrower who needs to learn how to be a pitcher. Price was ML ready they used him in the pen for the final part of the season when they went to the WS to prep him for major league hitters. He already knew how to pitch, Chapman doesn't.

Chapman wasn't skipping rocks at 200mph in Cuba or anything, he has a lot of experience pitching. He has two devastating pitches and (I heard) working on a third that needs to get up to par to become a starter. Knowing how to pitch doesn't worry me with Chapman, lack of control/ineffectiveness with wear does.

If he was struggling pitching 4 innings in 4 days how does that translate into a 7 inning start every 5? I'm not exactly sure to be honest, but in this situation I will trust Walt. My memory fails me and too lazy to Google but I think Wainwright's break into the bullpen and then turning into a starter might have been on Walt's watch, too.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I just don't get the panic meter or thinking that "We're wasting him" or anything like that. He's helping this team in a year we're built to win while still learning how to get major league batters out.

markymark69
05-10-2011, 02:28 PM
I really don't get it. This is what happens when you have a dearth of starting pitching. They all can't start. Who would you replace? Volquez is the only possibility and I think Volquez would be worse in the bullpen.

You either have to trade (God forbid on this board) or you do what the Reds are doing. Chapman and Leake in the bullpen are most likely better than any body they bring up from the minor leagues.

I just love the continual whining and complaining about how this organization is run. I'm glad this board wasn't around when Lindner, Bowden/Allen and Schott ran the teams or we would have it to call RedsZone Suicide Watch.

redsrolen
05-10-2011, 03:03 PM
I really don't get it. This is what happens when you have a dearth of starting pitching. They all can't start. Who would you replace? Volquez is the only possibility and I think Volquez would be worse in the bullpen.

You either have to trade (God forbid on this board) or you do what the Reds are doing. Chapman and Leake in the bullpen are most likely better than any body they bring up from the minor leagues.

I just love the continual whining and complaining about how this organization is run. I'm glad this board wasn't around when Lindner, Bowden/Allen and Schott ran the teams or we would have it to call RedsZone Suicide Watch.

Well Said!! What a great problem to have, too many talented pitchers!! As the season progresses, we'll all see, which pitchers belong where!

defender
05-10-2011, 03:26 PM
I think the plan is to have a cheap talented pitchers to support Cordero in the pen, see if there is an internal solution for next years closer, and try to win this year.

tkemmerer14
05-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Well Said!! What a great problem to have, too many talented pitchers!! As the season progresses, we'll all see, which pitchers belong where!

Maybe we should just bring back Todd Coffee and David Weathers. THey were fan favorites right? :laugh:

lonewolf371
05-10-2011, 03:40 PM
I really don't get it. This is what happens when you have a dearth of starting pitching. They all can't start. Who would you replace? Volquez is the only possibility and I think Volquez would be worse in the bullpen.

You either have to trade (God forbid on this board) or you do what the Reds are doing. Chapman and Leake in the bullpen are most likely better than any body they bring up from the minor leagues.

I just love the continual whining and complaining about how this organization is run. I'm glad this board wasn't around when Lindner, Bowden/Allen and Schott ran the teams or we would have it to call RedsZone Suicide Watch.
Volquez isn't going to the bullpen. Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto, and Bailey are locked into the rotation no matter what and they're the best four pitchers on the staff. Once his control gets a little better over the next couple of months you'll see why he was named the Opening Day starter.

CWRed
05-10-2011, 03:49 PM
As stated by one who shall remain nameless...the single key to the Reds season and future???? Send Chapman down to AAA a month ago. :rolleyes:

I on the other hand think what a great situation to have. Although Leake will probably rot in the bullpen and there is a question about Chapman's role and health, it will be fine methinks. Except there's Dusty .....hmmmm......ummmmm....and his use of the bullpen......errrrrr.....oh dear.

markymark69
05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
Volquez isn't going to the bullpen. Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto, and Bailey are locked into the rotation no matter what and they're the best four pitchers on the staff. Once his control gets a little better over the next couple of months you'll see why he was named the Opening Day starter.

lonewolf,
I was not advocating Volquez to the bullpen - only pointing out that by the numbers he's the guy you replace - knowing that it won't happen. Which again points to the quality of starting pitching that we have.

Because Leake and Chapman are not in the rotation as of this very moment - doesn't mean the Reds do not have a plan - on the contrary - they have a plan that seems to be working very well - unlike past ownerships who did nothing at worst and flew by the seat of their pants at best.

lonewolf371
05-10-2011, 05:06 PM
lonewolf,
I was not advocating Volquez to the bullpen - only pointing out that by the numbers he's the guy you replace - knowing that it won't happen. Which again points to the quality of starting pitching that we have.

Because Leake and Chapman are not in the rotation as of this very moment - doesn't mean the Reds do not have a plan - on the contrary - they have a plan that seems to be working very well - unlike past ownerships who did nothing at worst and flew by the seat of their pants at best.
Oh, I thought you were advocating that based on a lot of the sentiment on this site. My bad.

texasdave
05-10-2011, 05:10 PM
A dearth is a scarcity or lack of. Just sayin'.

markymark69
05-10-2011, 05:25 PM
A dearth is a scarcity or lack of. Just sayin'.

I guess I should say wealth.

markymark69
05-10-2011, 05:31 PM
Oh, I thought you were advocating that based on a lot of the sentiment on this site. My bad.

I know what you mean. I actually like to discuss real topics - not nitpick everything the team does. Or make wild allegations like the manager hates certain players or overreact after one game either way.

I actually enjoy watching the Reds, always have, but especially now, because they are set up to be good for a while. Some I fear will never enjoy it to the fullest because of the things I listed above. Sad.

lonewolf371
05-10-2011, 05:56 PM
I know what you mean. I actually like to discuss real topics - not nitpick everything the team does. Or make wild allegations like the manager hates certain players or overreact after one game either way.

I actually enjoy watching the Reds, always have, but especially now, because they are set up to be good for a while. Some I fear will never enjoy it to the fullest because of the things I listed above. Sad.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. It's still nice to find people that like to talk about the team, though.

Vottomatic
05-10-2011, 10:31 PM
This lack of a plan helped win us a division title last year and has us on the verge of first place.

I like this no plan.........uh, plan.

Hondo
05-11-2011, 07:17 PM
This lack of a plan helped win us a division title last year and has us on the verge of first place.

I like this no plan.........uh, plan.

ONE improvement would have been "Nice"

brm7675
05-11-2011, 07:33 PM
ONE improvement would have been "Nice"

Not resiging Dusty?

Hondo
05-11-2011, 08:07 PM
Not resiging Dusty?

Funny thing you mentioned that.

Dusty wouldn't sign with the Reds until the Dodgers offcially signed Mattingly to replace Torre.

CrosleyField
05-12-2011, 02:49 PM
As of May 12, we are one of a few teams in the National League with 20 wins, a game out of first, and coming off of a 4-2 road trip.