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WVRed
05-10-2011, 05:51 PM
http://www.smackapparel.com/userfiles/image/productimages/tresselstattooandpawnBIG.jpg

Picture of a t-shirt I saw in St Clairsville, OH at the Ohio Valley Mall.

I think the title says it all.

BuckeyeRed27
05-10-2011, 05:58 PM
http://www.10tv.com/live/content/teninvestigates/stories/2011/05/09/story-columbus-ohio-state-vehicle-investigation-ncaa.html?sid=102

Updated article with the quote from the car guy about why Gibson's title said $0. He refinanced an existing loan and did nothing wrong.

Redsfaithful
05-10-2011, 06:47 PM
St. Clairsville, Ohio really has no cause to be looking down on anyone. That is the armpit of the universe.

WVRed
05-10-2011, 07:35 PM
St. Clairsville, Ohio really has no cause to be looking down on anyone. That is the armpit of the universe.

It actually came from a website called getsmack.com. Had some pretty decent t-shirts for colleges. Just happened to see it on a t-shirt there.

St Clairsville actually used to be pretty decent at one point in time IIRC. I bought my fiancee's engagement ring there but pretty much all of the development has moved north to Wheeling.

Red Leader
05-11-2011, 01:52 AM
Mark Emmert wants to start hitting NCAA rule-breakers hard.

The governing body's president said Tuesday he wants schools that violate the rules to pay a stiff penalty -- one that's punitive enough to make coaches and others think twice about cheating.

"We need to make sure our penalty structure and enforcement process imposes a thoughtful level of concern, and that the cost of violating the rules costs more than not violating them," Emmert said.

Well this has some surprising timing to it. :laugh:

westofyou
05-11-2011, 10:51 AM
UM AD on OSU:



On Ohio State’s NCAA transgressions: “I know what it’s like to receive the papers from the NCAA … when you’re going through it it’s painful, it’s difficult, it’s stressful and what you don’t need is anybody … particularly a colleague … poking anything at you. There were some people out there that did it, and I remember who they are and I remember what they said.”
http://www.freep.com/article/20110510/SPORTS06/110511002/Michigan-AD-Dave-Brandon-talks-Rich-Rodriguez-Ohio-State?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

Sea Ray
05-11-2011, 11:06 AM
UM AD on OSU:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110510/SPORTS06/110511002/Michigan-AD-Dave-Brandon-talks-Rich-Rodriguez-Ohio-State?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

So basically he said "no comment"...So what?

Revering4Blue
05-14-2011, 08:58 PM
Tressel hires legal big gun, has no plans to resign.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/14/tressel-hires-legal-big-gun-has-no-plans-to-resign/

Chip R
05-15-2011, 12:40 PM
Tressel hires legal big gun, has no plans to resign.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/14/tressel-hires-legal-big-gun-has-no-plans-to-resign/

Neither did Nixon.

Sea Ray
05-15-2011, 04:08 PM
Tressel hires legal big gun, has no plans to resign.



I don't blame him for hiring a big gun. He'll need it. I'd do the same. It sure seems as though he disagrees with the Buckeye fans around here who think OSU will suffer few if any additional sanctions when the NCAA gets through with them

Unassisted
05-15-2011, 07:09 PM
Tressel hires legal big gun, has no plans to resign.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/14/tressel-hires-legal-big-gun-has-no-plans-to-resign/ (http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/14/tressel-hires-legal-big-gun-has-no-plans-to-resign/)The athletic department also signed on with a lawyer who is cozy with the Infractions committee.

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/15067608

The columnist seems to imply that the legal teams they've hired are very good at what they do.

Red Leader
05-15-2011, 09:25 PM
The athletic department also signed on with a lawyer who is cozy with the Infractions committee.

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/15067608

The columnist seems to imply that the legal teams they've hired are very good at what they do.

I certainly wouldn't hire anybody that's not good at what they do, and I don't have 1/100th of the bankroll that OSU has.

I'm sure that they are not only good at what they do, but possibly the best at what they do. If they manage to limit their penalties to anything near their self imposed sanctions, and keep Tressel on as coach, then I'll say these guys are the best at what they do.

jojo
05-26-2011, 11:06 PM
This story (http://www.thelantern.com/mobile/campus/ray-small-tells-all-ex-buckeye-says-he-sold-memorabilia-some-players-don-t-think-about-rules-1.2256503?pagereq=1)examines OSU football and car deals reporting:


The Columbus Dispatch reported on May 7 that OSU was investigating more than 50 transactions between OSU athletes and their families and Jack Maxton Chevrolet or Auto Direct.

BuckeyeRed27
05-27-2011, 03:36 PM
This story (http://www.thelantern.com/mobile/campus/ray-small-tells-all-ex-buckeye-says-he-sold-memorabilia-some-players-don-t-think-about-rules-1.2256503?pagereq=1)examines OSU football and car deals reporting:

That story is a joke and so is Ray Small. I feel sorry for him. Tressel gave him every chance he could and he clearly never got it.

SeeinRed
05-27-2011, 05:23 PM
That story is a joke and so is Ray Small. I feel sorry for him. Tressel gave him every chance he could and he clearly never got it.

This may be, but its just as likely that what he says is mostly true IMO. There is no doubt in my mind that more OSU players have recieved special deals and have sold memorabillia for money. Really, I think that is true about close to every major program. It isn't going to be easy for a program already under the microscope to shake this off.

That said, unless there is other evidence uncovered during the ongoing investigation into the car deals, I don't think it means a whole lot to OSU in terms of what the COI will hand out. It just fuels the fire of those who want to see OSU have the book thrown at them.

bucksfan2
05-27-2011, 05:37 PM
This may be, but its just as likely that what he says is mostly true IMO. There is no doubt in my mind that more OSU players have recieved special deals and have sold memorabillia for money. Really, I think that is true about close to every major program. It isn't going to be easy for a program already under the microscope to shake this off.

That said, unless there is other evidence uncovered during the ongoing investigation into the car deals, I don't think it means a whole lot to OSU in terms of what the COI will hand out. It just fuels the fire of those who want to see OSU have the book thrown at them.

I pretty much agree this with this. I do think OSU will be under the microscope for a while now. Unless they come out with bowl sanctions I have a feeling this will begin to pass once the football season gets underway. Once the games get going there will be more to talk about on the college football front that OSU. They may stay in the limelight a little longer but USC tended to fade.

Joseph
05-27-2011, 06:49 PM
My wife works with a guy who is an OSU fan. He's out for a while cause he and his wife just had a baby, so as a practical joke they are taking his Jim Tressel bobblehead doll around to various spots like the tattoo parlor and pawn shop and taking pictures of the bobblehead visiting.

WVRed
05-28-2011, 10:09 AM
That story is a joke and so is Ray Small. I feel sorry for him. Tressel gave him every chance he could and he clearly never got it.

Why does it seem like everybody who comes out and says that they received something extra get thrown under the bus?

Small has retracted part of his comments. Reading it at first makes you think that the NCAA should start paying student athletes, because he said that he sold his rings just so he could afford rent. Then you read the part where he was driving a Chrysler 300 with a $600 monthly car payment.

Cedric
05-28-2011, 10:13 AM
Why does it seem like everybody who comes out and says that they received something extra get thrown under the bus?

Small has retracted part of his comments. Reading it at first makes you think that the NCAA should start paying student athletes, because he said that he sold his rings just so he could afford rent. Then you read the part where he was driving a Chrysler 300 with a $600 monthly car payment.

You root for one of the most notorious dirty programs in college sports history. Why do you continue to worry about the Buckeyes?

WVRed
05-28-2011, 10:24 AM
You root for one of the most notorious dirty programs in college sports history. Why do you continue to worry about the Buckeyes?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fs0GKhFonOI/TcKiKbSNLzI/AAAAAAAAJ1o/6VP4h1BrlzA/s800/pot+calling+kettle+black.jpg

SeeinRed
05-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Well, I just heard about this today on twitter, but it appears there are rumors all over the internet about an article that could be released Tuesday (5/31) in SI about OSU. This article is rumored to have "new" information on Jim Tressel that goes back quite a while. The article is rumored to be written by award winning journalist George Dohrmann who has been credited with bringing down the University of Minnesota basketball program with his investigative reporting in 1999.

Reportedly, Dohrmann has been digging around in Columbus recently. These rumors have kind of been on again and off again. They range from being about Jim Tressel to pay for play allegations, though they mostly center around Tressel. The only thing known with some certainty is that Dohrmann was in Columbus for an extended amount of time. Sounds like the rumor was first reported by a radio station in Columbus. The host seemingly knew a person with knowledge of Dohrmann's investigation. I don't know anything about the radio hosts, so I don't know how much to believe about this. If this is in fact true, things are about to get really interesting in Buckeye Country.

BuckeyeRed27
05-28-2011, 11:41 PM
Those are rumors. There is no article. He is in Columbus looking for a story but nothing is scheduled to come out.

SeeinRed
05-29-2011, 12:50 AM
Those are rumors. There is no article. He is in Columbus looking for a story but nothing is scheduled to come out.

I agree that they are just rumors at this point, but I don't know why he would go to Columbus "looking" for a story. There has to be a reason he was there for the amount of time he was reported to have spent there. I don't put much weight in what rumors may say it is about at this point, but the fact that he is there has to make OSU fans uneasy. It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. Dohrmann has said himself he doesn't liked being scooped when the rumors first surfaced. So, what rumors that do come out are sketchy. Can't imagine a lot will be known before the article is released.

jredmo2
05-29-2011, 06:36 AM
My views are probably a little skewed by the fact that I just watched the latest (awesome) South Park, which adresses the student-athlete issue.

I'm more of a UC football fan, but in my view, the negativity towards OSU here is purely pedantic. That, and coming from people with an axe to grind regarding the program's success and relative prestige (i.e. most non-OSU college football fans).

I say that because, in my estimation, it would take a small army to regulate the football program to save it from all allegations. Again, this is all IMO, but all of these problems are systemic. They're more or less unavoidable, given the circumstances.

Anybody that's ever been to Columbus, or any other similar college football powerhouse town for that matter, pretty much knows what's going on. In Columbus, the OSU football players are revered as much if not more than any professional athletes. OSU football is THE focal point of the community. EVERY car dealership, pizza place, whatever pretty much has to tout OSU football and uses it in their promotions.

Now, for most of us, that's not really news. But it is a team that plays an incredibly important role in the local economy and culture, much moreso than the Bengals or Reds or UC or Xavier do in Cincinnati. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Eddie George or Troy Smith or whatever the biggest OSU star is at the time (before this scandal broke) had more celebrity in Columbus than Joey Votto or Brandon Phillips currently have in Cincinnati.

Now add in that these are very young, often very broke college guys. Now add that they see money being made off of them literally all around them, buying their jerseys, and it's all money that they cannot touch. Like I said, damn near every local establishment in Columbus -- not to mention the school itself -- tries to profit off of OSU football, but the players cannot.

Now add that, oh yeah, tons of these business people and boosters are more than willing to tell you whatever you want to hear, give you whatever you want, etc.

I mean, seriously, if you put that sort of situation under a microscope, you expect not to find anything? I guess you could expect all the players to have a moral fortitude that far exceeds that which exists in any corporate environment in the entire damn country, much less among 18-23 year old college students. Or I suppose OSU ought to have an entire division of employees devoted solely to monitoring around 100 college football players, to ensure that they comply to NCAA rules.

There exists a point where, when regulating a certain set of rules becomes unfeasible or simply patently ridiculous, the problem clearly lies within the rules themselves.

jredmo2
05-29-2011, 06:36 AM
Double rant

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 09:53 AM
Tressel just resigned.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/05/30/ohio-state-news.html?sid=101

jojo
05-30-2011, 10:03 AM
Tressel just resigned.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/05/30/ohio-state-news.html?sid=101

This was beginning to be inevitable.

cincrazy
05-30-2011, 10:14 AM
It was necessary. But this is the darkest day in OSU football since The Punch.

Cedric
05-30-2011, 10:31 AM
Stand strong Coach Tressel. Good people make bad mistakes.

Reds4Life
05-30-2011, 10:32 AM
No shock. Tressel takes the fall, and they hope the program doesn't get hit. THE OSU probably should have been tagged for lack of instutional control, and still may in the end.

paintmered
05-30-2011, 10:36 AM
No shock. Tressel takes the fall, and they hope the program doesn't get hit. THE OSU probably should have been tagged for lack of instutional control, and still may in the end.

My take on this as well. But then again, I'm a bit cynical when it comes to happenings in Columbus.

Cedric
05-30-2011, 10:39 AM
My take on this as well. But then again, I'm a bit cynical when it comes to happenings in Columbus.

You are either naive or just plain ignorant on what really happens on EVERY big time campus.

Ohio State just got put under the microscope.

I knew plenty of players at UC and that small time program had a ton of shady things happening under Rick Minter. It happens everywhere.

Scrap Irony
05-30-2011, 10:40 AM
If Urban Meyer decides to become the coach at tOSU, will Buckeye fans forgive him his past indiscretions, or will he always be an evil SEC coach who cheats and looks the other way?

Scrap Irony
05-30-2011, 10:41 AM
You are either naive or just plain ignorant on what really happens on EVERY big time campus.

Ohio State just got put under the microscope.

I knew plenty of players at UC and that small time program had a ton of shady things happening under Rick Minter. It happens everywhere.

Interesting, Cedric. That wasn't your position a few months ago. I agree with it, BTW. It's impossible to keep a program as big as a Division I football team clean.

paintmered
05-30-2011, 10:47 AM
You are either naive or just plain ignorant on what really happens on EVERY big time campus.

Ohio State just got put under the microscope.

I knew plenty of players at UC and that small time program had a ton of shady things happening under Rick Minter. It happens everywhere.

This doesn't surprise me, re: Minter. However, I can't help but think that if a UC football player during those days went to a car dealership looking for a heavily discounted car, the response would have been, "Who are you, again?" My guess is that the players weren't receiving improper benefits as much as they were doing all sorts of academic shenanigans.

It wasn't uncommon to see an Escalade rolling around campus during the Huggins era. But I don't know for sure they belonged to basketball players. Wouldn't have surprised me if they did.

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 11:01 AM
I feel sorry for Luke Fickel. He has one season to earn the job and he has to play 5 games without the #1 QB and some other starters.

Reds4Life
05-30-2011, 11:06 AM
I feel sorry for Luke Fickel. He has one season to earn the job and he has to play 5 games without the #1 QB and some other starters.

And will probably be facing a reduction of scholarships and a post-season bowl ban.

WVRed
05-30-2011, 11:13 AM
And will probably be facing a reduction of scholarships and a post-season bowl ban.

Knowing the NCAA, that will probably happen after the fact. I don't see Ohio State making a major bowl this year anyways. There is too much turmoil and a lame duck captain.

I can't see lack of institutional control just because its just one sport. If basketball was having problems, I could see it.

jojo
05-30-2011, 11:29 AM
This kind of makes one wonder just what has been uncovered and what the AD is worried might be uncovered if the bleeding doesn't get cauterized.

WVRed
05-30-2011, 11:37 AM
This kind of makes one wonder just what has been uncovered and what the AD is worried might be uncovered if the bleeding doesn't get cauterized.

I wonder if this has something to do with it:


Well, I just heard about this today on twitter, but it appears there are rumors all over the internet about an article that could be released Tuesday (5/31) in SI about OSU. This article is rumored to have "new" information on Jim Tressel that goes back quite a while. The article is rumored to be written by award winning journalist George Dohrmann who has been credited with bringing down the University of Minnesota basketball program with his investigative reporting in 1999.

Reportedly, Dohrmann has been digging around in Columbus recently. These rumors have kind of been on again and off again. They range from being about Jim Tressel to pay for play allegations, though they mostly center around Tressel. The only thing known with some certainty is that Dohrmann was in Columbus for an extended amount of time. Sounds like the rumor was first reported by a radio station in Columbus. The host seemingly knew a person with knowledge of Dohrmann's investigation. I don't know anything about the radio hosts, so I don't know how much to believe about this. If this is in fact true, things are about to get really interesting in Buckeye Country.

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 11:53 AM
This kind of makes one wonder just what has been uncovered and what the AD is worried might be uncovered if the bleeding doesn't get cauterized.Bet we find out soon. :(

jojo
05-30-2011, 11:54 AM
Bet we find out soon. :(

I'd really rather not know.

Sea Ray
05-30-2011, 12:17 PM
We've had a thousand or so posts on this and for all this time the OSU homers around here (you know who you are) have contended that OSU will not suffer any further penalties other than what they'd already self imposed.

It's great to be a homer and all--I know about this stuff with UT-Knoxville-- but it's important not to let your loyalty to your program get in the way of reality.

OSU has already suffered greatly in losing a wonderful coach and that means really bad things have been uncovered. I hope the OSU fans around here at least accept a fact they didn't a few months ago:

That OSU is in big, big trouble.

WVRed
05-30-2011, 12:21 PM
If Urban Meyer decides to become the coach at tOSU, will Buckeye fans forgive him his past indiscretions, or will he always be an evil SEC coach who cheats and looks the other way?

The real question is, does anybody think Urban Meyer would take the job?

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 12:31 PM
I'd really rather not know.Now that it has leaked out that he was encouraged to resign, Tressel fans are going to want a scapegoat and the 5 suspended players won't want to be that scapegoat. Before Twitter and the advent of sports blog journalism, we probably wouldn't ever find out. Local journalists might find out, but keep it to themselves. I don't know that that was better. It was better for building and preserving an image. I'd like to know because I'm wondering if Gene Smith and Gordon Gee are culpable.

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 12:36 PM
The real question is, does anybody think Urban Meyer would take the job?He's resigned at 2 other schools. To me, the bigger question is whether he can be trusted not to quit within 5 years. I don't want to see Ohio State settle for a 5-year rental. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring in Mark Dantonio.

jojo
05-30-2011, 12:39 PM
He's resigned at 2 other schools. To me, the bigger question is whether he can be trusted not to quit within 5 years. I don't want to see Ohio State settle for a 5-year rental. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring in Mark Dantonio.

They'll probably hire Gus Malzahn.

redsmetz
05-30-2011, 01:00 PM
No shock. Tressel takes the fall, and they hope the program doesn't get hit. THE OSU probably should have been tagged for lack of instutional control, and still may in the end.

I have to agree with Cedric, this is a matter of a good person making a bad mistake. Tressel knew the rules and should have moved forward on this from day one. It's shame because he's done a good job and his career will forever before marred by this failure on his part.

Puffy
05-30-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't think any big time coach will take this job until after the NCAA speaks. So until we know the penalties its really pointless to speculate who will be next coach. For instance, Meyer might very well want to take a year off and then get back into coaching and Ohio State is one of his preferred landing spots. But if Ohio State gets USC'd then Meyer is not going to go there.

As for D'Antonio - good name but he is a Tressel protege, no? Might be a hard sell now.....

Caveat Emperor
05-30-2011, 01:26 PM
I don't think any big time coach will take this job until after the NCAA speaks. So until we know the penalties its really pointless to speculate who will be next coach. For instance, Meyer might very well want to take a year off and then get back into coaching and Ohio State is one of his preferred landing spots. But if Ohio State gets USC'd then Meyer is not going to go there.

If they launched Tressel (and I do believe this was a "you can resign, or we'll be firing you on Tuesday" kind of situation), you can bet that the AD's office has heard whispers from the NCAA that the hammer is about to come down hard.

I'd expect USC penalties at minimum.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 01:37 PM
If they launched Tressel (and I do believe this was a "you can resign, or we'll be firing you on Tuesday" kind of situation), you can bet that the AD's office has heard whispers from the NCAA that the hammer is about to come down hard.

I'd expect USC penalties at minimum.

I promise you, that could not be further from the truth. It has absolutely nothing to do with what the NCAA might do. Nothing has changed between now and March when Ohio State said they were standing by Tressel.

Now, the SI article might have something to do with it. But the NCAA doesn't tell institutions what's coming, nor do they hint.

Ohio State won't get anything like USC punishment based on what we currently know. In fact, I will guarantee that, as of right now, Ohio State won't get even one year bowl ban. Of course, tomorrow it might be different depending on what happens in the SI article. But I'll amend that statement tomorrow if necessary.

If Ohio State thought USC-like sanctions were coming, I guarantee you they'd swallow their medicine and self-impose a bowl ban on this year's team to get it out of the way ahead of a new coach and further sanctions. After all, the timing would be perfect since a few key players will be missing nearly half the year anyhow. If they don't do that, it will be an indication they don't think any type of bowl ban is coming.

Caveat Emperor
05-30-2011, 01:48 PM
The NCAA will stay silent, but that's not going to stop words (via unofficial channels) from reaching the right ears about what's coming down the pike.

This whole situation reeks of a "non-firing" firing -- I find it hard to believe that Tressel would spend all winter / spring dodging bullets only to decide on his own now, at the end of May, that it's simply too hard to stay.

toledodan
05-30-2011, 01:49 PM
I promise you, that could not be further from the truth. It has absolutely nothing to do with what the NCAA might do. Nothing has changed between now and March when Ohio State said they were standing by Tressel.

Now, the SI article might have something to do with it. But the NCAA doesn't tell institutions what's coming, nor do they hint.

Ohio State won't get anything like USC punishment based on what we currently know. In fact, I will guarantee that, as of right now, Ohio State won't get even one year bowl ban. Of course, tomorrow it might be different depending on what happens in the SI article. But I'll amend that statement tomorrow if necessary.

If Ohio State thought USC-like sanctions were coming, I guarantee you they'd swallow their medicine and self-impose a bowl ban on this year's team to get it out of the way ahead of a new coach and further sanctions. After all, the timing would be perfect since a few key players will be missing nearly half the year anyhow. If they don't do that, it will be an indication they don't think any type of bowl ban is coming.


coming out of denial is the first step of healing.:D

Brutus
05-30-2011, 01:53 PM
coming out of denial is the first step of healing.:D

Denial about what? There's nothing to deny. If you look at the history of NCAA sanctions, the programs like USC, Michigan, Alabama, etc... you know what they share in common? Lots of money exchanging hands. This situation is nothing like that. It's not that Ohio State won't get in any trouble, it's simply those situations involved thousands and thousands of dollars and benefits to athletes. This situation is more about a coach not passing along information when he got it. There's such a huge difference it's not even remotely in the same ballpark.

I think Jim Calhoun and Connecticut's situation is more like what Ohio State will get, based on what we know.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 01:55 PM
The NCAA will stay silent, but that's not going to stop words (via unofficial channels) from reaching the right ears about what's coming down the pike.

This whole situation reeks of a "non-firing" firing -- I find it hard to believe that Tressel would spend all winter / spring dodging bullets only to decide on his own now, at the end of May, that it's simply too hard to stay.

As I said... it's not that I don't think something changed, but I think the timing reeks of being more about the SI article coming out than anything having to do with the NCAA. The NCAA hearing isn't even until August. That means there won't even be a ruling until later this fall. There can be whispers, but it's not even remotely time where those whispers would really come out as the NCAA is still compiling information.

15fan
05-30-2011, 02:01 PM
I feel sorry for Luke Fickel. He has one season to earn the job and he has to play 5 games without the #1 QB and some other starters.

I disagree. Fickell is in a great position.

He's all of 38 years old (my age - graduated from a rival HS the same year I did) and just got handed the keys to one of the top 10-15 football programs in America. He has a roster of 5 recruiting classes including a stout group of incoming freshmen. He has a good staff of assistants, and a schedule that's conducive to him putting up a solid season regardless of the suspensions. He gets Penn State and Wisconsin at home.

There's no way he flops. None. Short of going 0-fer, he's going to end up on his feet somewhere.

I think the biggest question is what happens if the 2011 Buckeyes put together a 9+ win season? Does OSU still pull the trigger and go after Urban Meyer? Or maybe they just "lucked" (and I use that term very loosely) into finding the guy who's going to lead the program for the next quarter century.

IslandRed
05-30-2011, 02:15 PM
This has been coming ever since the April notice of allegations. By declaring Tressel in violation of the ethical-conduct rule -- the infamous 10.1 that hardly any coach ever survives -- while holding out the promise that OSU itself has not been guilty of lack of institutional control, it was inevitable (to me, anyway) that Ohio State would eventually conclude that standing by its man wasn't going to result in anything other than getting creamed. Perhaps the exact timing was influenced by the rumored SI article but it was going to happen before camp opened, in my opinion.

RBA
05-30-2011, 03:23 PM
So much for going board on USC to make them an example to others.

KronoRed
05-30-2011, 03:39 PM
I guess we can answer the top with a certain 'No'.

I doubt Meyer is going anywhere soon, he had a serious health scare, tried to delegate last year and ended up with a team that was unfocused and awful at times, he won't try again unless he decides that dropping dead on the field is ok.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-30-2011, 04:04 PM
I don't think any big time coach will take this job until after the NCAA speaks. So until we know the penalties its really pointless to speculate who will be next coach. For instance, Meyer might very well want to take a year off and then get back into coaching and Ohio State is one of his preferred landing spots. But if Ohio State gets USC'd then Meyer is not going to go there.

As for D'Antonio - good name but he is a Tressel protege, no? Might be a hard sell now.....

I'm not so sure about that. Urban Meyer is an Ohio native, former OSU assistant coach and has long said that OSU would be considered his dream job. USC was Lane Kiffin's dream job and he readily took that job when it opened up, despite the dark clouds hanging over the program.

And it's not like Urban Meyer is in any hurry or pressure to win right now. The guy already has two national championships under his belt. Maybe he's done with coaching altogether anyway, unless it's at Ohio State. If that's the case, I doubt a two-year bowl ban would impact whether he'd come home.

Personally, I'd rather have Bob Stoops, another Ohio native and Bucks fan.

Or how about John Gruden, another coach with extensive Ohio ties?

Roy Tucker
05-30-2011, 04:27 PM
I thought this was inevitable. For a coach that prides himself on integrity, Tressel went completely against everything he supposedly stood for and really seriously screwed the pooch. There was no way he could go into any recruit's living room, look Mom and Dad in the eye, and say "you can trust me to do the right thing for your son". No. Way.

He's been dead-man-walking since the Sugar Bowl. From his body language and comments at the end of that game, I think he knew the fecal storm was coming and there was no way for him not to get out of this with his reputation and character intact.

And I think they go with Luke Fickell for this year. And then all the big names get rumored to come to OSU in 2012 and the rumor mill will be blasting away full-steam. It still will be one of the top 5 college coaching jobs in the country.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 04:51 PM
I thought this was inevitable. For a coach that prides himself on integrity, Tressel went completely against everything he supposedly stood for and really seriously screwed the pooch. There was no way he could go into any recruit's living room, look Mom and Dad in the eye, and say "you can trust me to do the right thing for your son". No. Way.

He's been dead-man-walking since the Sugar Bowl. From his body language and comments at the end of that game, I think he knew the fecal storm was coming and there was no way for him not to get out of this with his reputation and character intact.

And I think they go with Luke Fickell for this year. And then all the big names get rumored to come to OSU in 2012 and the rumor mill will be blasting away full-steam. It still will be one of the top 5 college coaching jobs in the country.

Certainly he made an err in judgment. But actually, it's the opposite: he can go in the living room of folks and say he stands up for his players -- which he absolutely did.

There's no question he made a mistake. It's actually the lying about whether or not he knew in December that was probably his downfall. But he fell on the sword to protect his players... in a thespian sort of way, that's actually very admirable and should be a testament to his dedication to them.

LoganBuck
05-30-2011, 05:54 PM
As far as SeaRay calling out the "homers". Nothing has changed just like Brutus said. I have said before that I think Tressel, needed to go. I am inclined to believe that unless another bombshell comes forward, and to this point one really hasn't other than some icky car deals. (Which supposedly was already cleared.) The story hasn't really changed.

I know this, I support Ohio State. I root for the university, the team, and the players on the field. I won't pull out and run like some other fans did from their team. I will support my interim coach, and whoever becomes the full time coach next season. There won't be any extra angst over the issue.

Captain Hook
05-30-2011, 06:06 PM
We've had a thousand or so posts on this and for all this time the OSU homers around here (you know who you are) have contended that OSU will not suffer any further penalties other than what they'd already self imposed.

It's great to be a homer and all--I know about this stuff with UT-Knoxville-- but it's important not to let your loyalty to your program get in the way of reality.

OSU has already suffered greatly in losing a wonderful coach and that means really bad things have been uncovered. I hope the OSU fans around here at least accept a fact they didn't a few months ago:

That OSU is in big, big trouble.

It's really unfair for you to call anyone out for their opinion a few months ago.If the story had ended with Tressel lying to the NCAA I believe I'd of been correct and you would've been wrong.Not really any point in arguing it because we'll really never know.

I'm not going to speculate about what's in the upcoming SI article but the arthur of the story claimed on twitter today that Tressel calling it quits will make more sense once that information does come out.Not to mention all the other little things that have come out the last few months.

Tressel was certainly my all time favorite OSU coach.He wasn't perfect on or off the field but he is a good man.He's made some mistakes though.I will miss the guy being on the sideline but this program will move on.

LoganBuck
05-30-2011, 06:39 PM
610 WTVN mentioning that NCAA has opened separate investigation of improper benefits to Terrelle Pryor. Apparently this is the focus of SI article coming. That would be the bombshell.

If that is the case, they will have serious sanctions placed on the team.

Roy Tucker
05-30-2011, 06:44 PM
Certainly he made an err in judgment. But actually, it's the opposite: he can go in the living room of folks and say he stands up for his players -- which he absolutely did.

There's no question he made a mistake. It's actually the lying about whether or not he knew in December that was probably his downfall. But he fell on the sword to protect his players... in a thespian sort of way, that's actually very admirable and should be a testament to his dedication to them.



I can certainly understand standing up for his players and doing what he can to protect them. I know he's loyal to his guys and treats them like family.

But when the NCAA comes knocking, it's time to come clean. That's the fatal blow to his integrity IMHO. He lied straight-faced to the NCAA. You just can't do that. You make a run-of-the-mill player violation into something a lot bigger.

westofyou
05-30-2011, 06:46 PM
I can certainly understand standing up for his players and doing what he can to protect them. I know he's loyal to his guys and treats them like family.

But when the NCAA comes knocking, it's time to come clean. That's the fatal blow to his integrity IMHO. He lied straight-faced to the NCAA. You just can't do that. You make a run-of-the-mill player violation into something a lot bigger.

It's like lying to your wife, it's a bigger wrong.

jojo
05-30-2011, 06:53 PM
It's really unfair for you to call anyone out for their opinion a few months ago.If the story had ended with Tressel lying to the NCAA I believe I'd of been correct and you would've been wrong.Not really any point in arguing it because we'll really never know.

I'm not going to speculate about what's in the upcoming SI article but the arthur of the story claimed on twitter today that Tressel calling it quits will make more sense once that information does come out.Not to mention all the other little things that have come out the last few months.

Tressel was certainly my all time favorite OSU coach.He wasn't perfect on or off the field but he is a good man.He's made some mistakes though.I will miss the guy being on the sideline but this program will move on.

There are some critical facts still yet to become public knowledge so you're right about calling scoreboard.

That said, something has had to have changed for OSU and Tressel to go from being steadfast and appearing to be planning for a long future together to deciding their relationship was no longer tenable for the sake of the program.

I hope for the sake of devout OSU fans who are deeply passionate about their program in part because of the way OSU approaches it's business this is just about Tressel and his AD deciding that the lying story isn't going to go away but rather it's just gonna focus the hubble telescope on the program (no program can be squeaky clean under that kind of scrutiny because it's too easy to break the rules with the best of intentions) so Tressel is going out with grace rather then in a furry of deepening scandal. But make no mistake, Tressel lying to the NCAA is what has focused the hubble on Columbus. This really isn't him taking one for the team. Hopefully, this is Tressel taking responsibility in keeping with his books/public persona (rather than a disappointing reveal into his closet).

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 06:54 PM
610 WTVN mentioning that NCAA has opened separate investigation of improper benefits to Terrelle Pryor. Apparently this is the focus of SI article coming. That would be the bombshell.

If that is the case, they will have serious sanctions placed on the team.

Dispatch confirms: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/05/30/zzz.html Guess this explains why the TPeezy2 Twitter account has been so quiet lately. He supplied the straw that broke the camel's back. :rolleyes:


The NCAA and the Ohio State University's compliance office are conducting an independent investigation of Terrelle Pryor amid allegations that the star quarterback may have received cars and other extra benefits, sources told The Dispatch today.

Pryor has been questioned by OSU compliance officials in the past, but sources said this is the most significant inquiry to date. He already has been interviewed at least once by investigators within the past few weeks, sources said.

Pryor and the cars he drives have been an issue since he arrived on campus three years ago. Pryor has been connected to more than a half dozen vehicles during his time at Ohio State, according to sources.

jojo
05-30-2011, 06:55 PM
It's like lying to your wife, it's a bigger wrong.

And hell hath no furry like a scorned woman...

Unassisted
05-30-2011, 07:03 PM
I disagree. Fickell is in a great position.

He's all of 38 years old (my age - graduated from a rival HS the same year I did) and just got handed the keys to one of the top 10-15 football programs in America. He has a roster of 5 recruiting classes including a stout group of incoming freshmen. He has a good staff of assistants, and a schedule that's conducive to him putting up a solid season regardless of the suspensions. He gets Penn State and Wisconsin at home.

There's no way he flops. None. Short of going 0-fer, he's going to end up on his feet somewhere.

I think the biggest question is what happens if the 2011 Buckeyes put together a 9+ win season? Does OSU still pull the trigger and go after Urban Meyer? Or maybe they just "lucked" (and I use that term very loosely) into finding the guy who's going to lead the program for the next quarter century.If Pryor's college career is over, which is looking like a distinct possibility, I don't believe a 9+ win season is in the cars... er, cards. :thumbdown: 7 wins might even be pushing it.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 07:17 PM
610 WTVN mentioning that NCAA has opened separate investigation of improper benefits to Terrelle Pryor. Apparently this is the focus of SI article coming. That would be the bombshell.

If that is the case, they will have serious sanctions placed on the team.

My understanding of the article from someone at OSU (though who has not seen the article directly) is that the focus will be more on the 'culture' at Ohio State than specific new allegations. The article's not going to bring much new to the table by way of things pertaining to the NCAA, from what I understand. I could be mistaken, but I suppose we'll soon see.

Captain Hook
05-30-2011, 08:05 PM
My understanding of the article from someone at OSU (though who has not seen the article directly) is that the focus will be more on the 'culture' at Ohio State than specific new allegations. The article's not going to bring much new to the table by way of things pertaining to the NCAA, from what I understand. I could be mistaken, but I suppose we'll soon see.

I hope your right.It wouldn't surprise me if you were considering that all of these reporters seem to keep spinning the same old story as some new breaking story of new violations.It seems to be a monthly occurrence that OSU makes the front page of espn.com for a few days and it's basically the same thing from the month before.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 08:20 PM
As an aside, that SI article is supposed to go live here between 7:30 and 8 PM EST

MWM
05-30-2011, 08:24 PM
I hope one of the lessons learned by all of this is that players like Terrelle Pryor are just not worth what comes with them. Let them go somewhere else.

Captain Hook
05-30-2011, 08:31 PM
ESPN reporting that the NCAA and OSU today has begun an investigation into possible improper benefits given to Pryor.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6608432

Red Leader
05-30-2011, 08:48 PM
ESPN reporting that the NCAA and OSU today has begun an investigation into possible improper benefits given to Pryor.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6608432

We now know that Tressel has coached his last game for Ohio State. It's looking more and more like Pryor has taken his last snap already for Ohio State. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple others that are not permitted to play again. This is going to be a huge stinky dung storm. I'm not sure if they'll stop uncovering things by the time the hearing takes place in August. I've been told by several friends who have connections to the Ohio State program that things are going to get A LOT worse before the final decision is made by the NCAA.

Reds Fanatic
05-30-2011, 08:53 PM
We now know that Tressel has coached his last game for Ohio State. It's looking more and more like Pryor has taken his last snap already for Ohio State. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple others that are not permitted to play again. This is going to be a huge stinky dung storm. I'm not sure if they'll stop uncovering things by the time the hearing takes place in August. I've been told by several friends who have connections to the Ohio State program that things are going to get A LOT worse before the final decision is made by the NCAA.

I would not be surprised if that hearing gets delayed past August if they keep uncovering new violations. The NCAA took several years on the USC Reggie Bush case before they came down with those sanctions. All signs are this is going to be really ugly at OSU the Pryor investigation I have a feeling is going to end up bringing the worst sanctions to the OSU program.

Reds Fanatic
05-30-2011, 09:36 PM
As an aside, that SI article is supposed to go live here between 7:30 and 8 PM EST

The latest update on this is the SI article won't go up until the SI print edition is finalized tonight. Apparently this OSU investigation SI did is the cover story and after they finish putting the magazine together tonight the story will go up on SI.com. So probably either later tonight or tomorrow the story will be out.

Reds Fanatic
05-30-2011, 09:56 PM
The SI article has now been posted online:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/30/jim.tressel/index.html

paintmered
05-30-2011, 10:12 PM
I didn't go too extensively through the article, but it doesn't seem to be much new in there. The article suggests that improper benefits were more widespread over a longer period of time than previously acknowledged, but I didn't see a bombshell.

Playadlc
05-30-2011, 10:30 PM
I didn't go too extensively through the article, but it doesn't seem to be much new in there. The article suggests that improper benefits were more widespread over a longer period of time than previously acknowledged, but I didn't see a bombshell.

Yeah it really was nothing more than some things that were obviously true. The article could be another tug on the loose thread, but it's not that big of a deal.

The story about Tressel rigging a raffle is pretty hilarious, though.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 11:04 PM
Unnamed sources and named convicted felons as the sources. That was weak for some alleged bombshell.

Mind you, a lot of the stuff is probably true, but most of the article is a combination of supposition, allegations that were already well established and pure rhetoric. In terms of investigative journalism, that was pretty much a dud.

The whole raffle thing is pretty ridiculous. Assault a man's character and the best you can do is an unnamed source? Meh.

Captain Hook
05-30-2011, 11:08 PM
I didn't go too extensively through the article, but it doesn't seem to be much new in there. The article suggests that improper benefits were more widespread over a longer period of time than previously acknowledged, but I didn't see a bombshell.

No not too much.Basically the bombshell is supposed to be that there was a large number of athletes trading stuff for tattoos and that it has been going on since 2002.Some crackhead(forgive me for the brief summary but basically that's what it sounds like the guy is)is their big source.

I can't imagine that this article alone caused Tressel and OSU to part ways.I just think they've both given in to the idea that the media isn't going to let this all go and maybe they shouldn't.

It's getting to be frustrating as a fan that these big stories keep coming out and they're all basically all saying the same thing.It's almost like the media just want's to make sure no one forgets and every time they remind us OSU fans have to put up with some guy telling us they told us so.Tell me something new please.

RiverRat13
05-30-2011, 11:09 PM
LOL at George Dohrmann, who is trying to take credit for Tressel resigning. That article was extremely weak.

If that's all there is (still a big if), no way OSU comes anywhere close to USC punishment. They MAY get a postseason ban this year, but other than forfeiting last year's wins and losing recruiting privileges, that's about it.

RiverRat13
05-30-2011, 11:10 PM
No not too much.Basically the bombshell is supposed to be that there was a large number of athletes trading stuff for tattoos and that it has been going on since 2002.

And I'm pretty sure selling your own stuff wasn't illegal until 2006, so a good deal of Dorhmann's timeline is made up of things that were perfectly legal.

bucksfan2
05-30-2011, 11:15 PM
If Pryor's college career is over, which is looking like a distinct possibility, I don't believe a 9+ win season is in the cars... er, cards. :thumbdown: 7 wins might even be pushing it.

As an OSU alum and fan I want nothing to do with Pryor again. The man has been trouble ever since he set foot on campus and IMO was the cause of Tressel's demise. He was a prima dona college athlete that in the end caused more trouble and hassle that he was worth. I hope the university wishes him good riddence and decides to head in a new direction next year.

Its already looking like next year will be a rebuilding season. Not only do they have their usual schedule, the Big Ten schedule as we'll as a trip down to Miami, they also have Nebraska on the schedule this year. It may be time to anoint Braxton Miller the next QB and head in that direction. I definatley don't want to see Pryor take any snaps next year. And all the other 5 tattoo idiots should't be allowed on the field again.

As for the head coach I really want to see what Fickel can do. He had been mentioned as a hot candidate over the past few seasons. I don't really want to see Meyer at OSU or even Stoops for that matter. I would prefer Pelini who was a defensive captain at OSU.

jojo
05-30-2011, 11:23 PM
If i've read the article correctly, we know that the NCAA is investigating Prior and his links to cars, the NCAA is investigating 50 separate car purchases related to the OSU football program, and the NCAA is investigating a businessman with close ties to Pryor presumably relating to Pryor's recruitment.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but has it been officially acknowledged that the NCAA is formally investigating these issues? I was under the impression that OSU was looking into them... There's a big difference between the NCAA formally investigating and the university doing fact finding.

WVRed
05-30-2011, 11:28 PM
Unnamed sources and named convicted felons as the sources. That was weak for some alleged bombshell.

Mind you, a lot of the stuff is probably true, but most of the article is a combination of supposition, allegations that were already well established and pure rhetoric. In terms of investigative journalism, that was pretty much a dud.

The whole raffle thing is pretty ridiculous. Assault a man's character and the best you can do is an unnamed source? Meh.

Given how people are religiously defending Jim Tressel, it might be a really good idea that these sources are unnamed. I know if I had information to bring down a major university sports program and turned it in I would be fearing for my life.

Just because the sources aren't named doesn't take away from it. It's done to protect the person in case a mob scene shows up at the persons house, ala Steve Bartman.

jojo
05-30-2011, 11:32 PM
This article seems like an accurate editorial/summary:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_compounding_mistakes_cost_tressel_job_05301 1

We're left wondering now, what might be uncovered as the magnifying glass is directed at OSU's program as clearly the NCAA's seems to be... Maybe, its mostly just "old news" rumors but if they become factual violations, even those might be enough.

jojo
05-30-2011, 11:35 PM
Given how people are religiously defending Jim Tressel, it might be a really good idea that these sources are unnamed. I know if I had information to bring down a major university sports program and turned it in I would be fearing for my life.

Just because the sources aren't named doesn't take away from it. It's done to protect the person in case a mob scene shows up at the persons house, ala Steve Bartman.

One needs to know the sources in order to evaluate their reliability. If concrete sources fail to emerge, it's a tell IMHO.

Captain Hook
05-30-2011, 11:39 PM
If i've read the article correctly, we know that the NCAA is investigating Prior and his links to cars, the NCAA is investigating 50 separate car purchases related to the OSU football program, and the NCAA is investigating a businessman with close ties to Pryor presumably relating to Pryor's recruitment.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but has it been officially acknowledged that the NCAA is formally investigating these issues? I was under the impression that OSU was looking into them... There's a big difference between the NCAA formally investigating and the university doing fact finding.


There was this article last week.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6499662

I can't find it but I'm sure I read somewhere that it was found that all the cars were sold and that in most cases the players are still paying for them.I know that in the original story on Ray Smalls he claimed to have sold stuff to make is payments so while that's a violation in it's self it at least says that he had to pay for the car.I'll look for the article because I wouldn't want anyone to take a OSU fans word for it.

Found this regarding Clarett....

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1923175

.....while this is by no means clears OSU and Tressel of wrong doings it must have been what I read regarding the current issues OSU is faced with....

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/07/osu-to-investigate-players-car-deals.html

Brutus
05-30-2011, 11:42 PM
Given how people are religiously defending Jim Tressel, it might be a really good idea that these sources are unnamed. I know if I had information to bring down a major university sports program and turned it in I would be fearing for my life.

Just because the sources aren't named doesn't take away from it. It's done to protect the person in case a mob scene shows up at the persons house, ala Steve Bartman.

The unnamed source is a guy that has a serious ax to grind if it's who I think it is. Pretty easy to figure out for anyone that has had insights to the program. But if it's who I suspect, all I'm saying is the person would have a lot of reasons to try and paint Tressel in a negative light.

Trust me on this...there really is some credibility problems given the past history with this person if it's who I think (and this person would have been around both during the 80's and more recently).

Betterread
05-30-2011, 11:43 PM
LOL at George Dohrmann, who is trying to take credit for Tressel resigning. That article was extremely weak.

You have no clue. You think that passionate fandom gives you the right to castigate some who does an honestly good job. I know Dohrmann personally. He has real integrity - more in his pinky than "lie and deny" Tressel. Tressel has been ethically questionable for years, but fools like you swallowed his garbage because OSU won and you needed to believe that in winning there is intrinsic ethical virtue. I never want to read about what a phony jerk Chris Carpenter is on this board and what he says to his kids, unless the local hero Tressel's hypocrisy is acknowledged at the same time.

Roy Tucker
05-30-2011, 11:43 PM
It's just all too bad. Tressel was such a perfect fit for OSU. I don't understand how such a smart guy made such bone-headed moves.

Brutus
05-30-2011, 11:48 PM
You have no clue. You think that passionate fandom gives you the right to castigate some who does an honestly good job. I know Dohrmann personally. He has real integrity - more in his pinky than "lie and deny" Tressel. Tressel has been ethically questionable for years, but fools like you swallowed his garbage because OSU won and you needed to believe that in winning there is intrinsic ethical virtue. I never want to read about what a phony jerk Chris Carpenter is on this board and what he says to his kids, unless the local hero Tressel's hypocrisy is acknowledged at the same time.

You castigate someone for doing the same to someone they don't know, yet you turn around and do it to Tressel. Ironic, don't you think?

I promise you, Tressel has done more for society than Dohrmann. I don't even know him but I know it's doubtful he could have done more good for a community or people than Tressel has done. The guy is a hero to Columbus and Ohio not just because he's a winning football coach, but because he treats people so well. He donates a lot of money. He donates his time to causes. He answers every email personally. He shows up at hospitals to do favors for people he doesn't even know. The man is a living legend because of the innate goodness he shows off the football field as much as the wins on.

Tressel is guilty of making a mistake. But I promise anyone suggesting he's ethically questionable knows not of what he speaks.

I just find it distasteful you would lecture someone on questioning Dohrmann because they don't know him, then do the same to someone you clearly have never met.

RiverRat13
05-30-2011, 11:52 PM
You have no clue. You think that passionate fandom gives you the right to castigate some who does an honestly good job. I know Dohrmann personally. He has real integrity - more in his pinky than "lie and deny" Tressel. Tressel has been ethically questionable for years, but fools like you swallowed his garbage because OSU won and you needed to believe that in winning there is intrinsic ethical virtue. I never want to read about what a phony jerk Chris Carpenter is on this board and what he says to his kids, unless the local hero Tressel's hypocrisy is acknowledged at the same time.

Even if the article is 100% accurate, it isn't the reason why Tressel was forced to resign. That was my point. SI and Dohrmann hyped the article to be some sort of back-breaker (I was expecting something about cars), but the article was largely Dohrmann editorializing and dredging up things from Tressel's YSU days.

Before you get on your soapbox, try reading the context of a post.

LoganBuck
05-31-2011, 12:11 AM
Just finished reading it. More of the same.

I am more concerned about the Terrelle Pryor investigation, which is apparently not part of this story.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 12:16 AM
It's just all too bad. Tressel was such a perfect fit for OSU. I don't understand how such a smart guy made such bone-headed moves.

If there's anything this new SI article points out that may be correct regarding Tressel and his personal flaws is the one thing that answers your questions.Tressel didn't do any of this stuff.He actually isn't guilty nor is he being accused of being guilty of breaking any of the rules directly.His problem was that on the occasion that it came to his attention that a violation had taken place he turned his head.It's now pretty easy to accuse him of having done this in the past considering that he's now been caught.

The new SI article just digs up every little thing that's gone on during Tressels watch and acts as if he always knew and was behind everything.I guess if he was guilty this time he must have been guilty all those other times.Not to mention he's a terrible person that steels school kids lunch money.To be honest, I think this article was a complete joke and brought nothing new to the table.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:18 AM
Just finished reading it. More of the same.

I am more concerned about the Terrelle Pryor investigation, which is apparently not part of this story.

The Pryor story is far, far more concerning than any of that garbage put out by Dohrmann. For some alleged groundbreaking piece, that was an awful piece.

The Pryor stuff at least has the potential to turn into something worse. Dorhmann's article was a smear job based on the word of an unnamed with an ax to grind, a convincted felon who's likely got at least some of his details mistaken and wordy, matter-of-fact pejorative language that points a lot of fingers but does little to prove the allegations.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 12:33 AM
The Pryor story is far, far more concerning than any of that garbage put out by Dohrmann. For some alleged groundbreaking piece, that was an awful piece.

The Pryor stuff at least has the potential to turn into something worse. Dorhmann's article was a smear job based on the word of an unnamed with an ax to grind, a convincted felon who's likely got at least some of his details mistaken and wordy, matter-of-fact pejorative language that points a lot of fingers but does little to prove the allegations.

Just wanted to point out that while this was included in the Dohrmann story it wasn't anything new.It was reported by the dispatch earlier this month then again by espn last week.

cincrazy
05-31-2011, 12:33 AM
You have no clue. You think that passionate fandom gives you the right to castigate some who does an honestly good job. I know Dohrmann personally. He has real integrity - more in his pinky than "lie and deny" Tressel. Tressel has been ethically questionable for years, but fools like you swallowed his garbage because OSU won and you needed to believe that in winning there is intrinsic ethical virtue. I never want to read about what a phony jerk Chris Carpenter is on this board and what he says to his kids, unless the local hero Tressel's hypocrisy is acknowledged at the same time.

You know George Dohrmann personally, and I'm not questioning his integrity. And as a football coach, Tressel may be a slime ball, but as a MAN, I still think he's a great man. I can distinguish between the two. Maybe others can't. What he's done behind the scenes, for people in the hospital, children with cancer, veterans... the depth of what that man's done for this community goes way beyond winning football games. And if you can't understand that then you're just not going to understand the other side of it.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-31-2011, 12:45 AM
You have no clue. You think that passionate fandom gives you the right to castigate some who does an honestly good job. I know Dohrmann personally. He has real integrity - more in his pinky than "lie and deny" Tressel. Tressel has been ethically questionable for years, but fools like you swallowed his garbage because OSU won and you needed to believe that in winning there is intrinsic ethical virtue. I never want to read about what a phony jerk Chris Carpenter is on this board and what he says to his kids, unless the local hero Tressel's hypocrisy is acknowledged at the same time.

I think that it's you that has no clue.

That's not "passionate fandom" talking either.

Caveat Emperor
05-31-2011, 01:00 AM
It's just all too bad. Tressel was such a perfect fit for OSU. I don't understand how such a smart guy made such bone-headed moves.

Just win, baby.

The margin between a national title contender and a major-conference also-ran is so razor slim that I have to imagine the pressure to do whatever it takes to get that extra blue-chip recruit or superstar player is enormous -- especially when all that's being asked of you is to look the other way while boosters do the dirty work.

Redsfaithful
05-31-2011, 01:12 AM
I know Dohrmann personally.

Tell him his article was pretty weak.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 01:25 AM
Just win, baby.

The margin between a national title contender and a major-conference also-ran is so razor slim that I have to imagine the pressure to do whatever it takes to get that extra blue-chip recruit or superstar player is enormous -- especially when all that's being asked of you is to look the other way while boosters do the dirty work.

Not to put words in your mouth but I assume you mean that this kind of thing happens a lot and not just at Ohio State.Either way I think it does and I don't think Jim Tressel will be the last good man that gets his good name all muddied up in the intrest of preserving the way the NCAA does business.They want these young players to be superstars and that's what they become.Young and broke superstars are going to take advantage of the only thing they have to get what they want even if they know the rules.Their fame gets them deals and benefits everywhere they go and Jim Tressel knew that and gave in to that idea and then lied about it so his team could win some games.That makes him guilty but it doesn't make him a bad man.

Making Tressel into some villan was the only purpose of the SI article imo.It certainly wasn't to inform.

kaldaniels
05-31-2011, 01:36 AM
Anyone in here feel free to answer this question.

You are hired to coach a top ten program. How in the world do you ensure your players don't get involved in this sort of thing. Now of course what did Tressel in was the coverup...but that's not what I'm wondering. You have 100 young athletic males who can seedily make a buck or get a discount simply for being on the team. How in the world do you police your own players? It makes my head hurt to think about how that is even possible in this day and age.

SeeinRed
05-31-2011, 02:45 AM
Anyone in here feel free to answer this question.

You are hired to coach a top ten program. How in the world do you ensure your players don't get involved in this sort of thing. Now of course what did Tressel in was the coverup...but that's not what I'm wondering. You have 100 young athletic males who can seedily make a buck or get a discount simply for being on the team. How in the world do you police your own players? It makes my head hurt to think about how that is even possible in this day and age.

At the end of the day, keeping it from happening is near impossible. One way a coach can look at it is to ask if they did everything they could do, within reason, to try and prevent it from happening. Players will still break rules, but if Tressel reports the violations like he was expected to, Tressel would still be the coach of the Buckeyes, and OSU probably doesn't have to live under a microscope for the next few years.

That being said, I don't think it would be that crazy to suggest that it wasn't just that one violation that forced this decision. There may well be another incident, or series of incidents that led to Tressel's resignation. If so, I'd expect the additional reasons to come to light soon.

I've heard from numerous places that things will probably get worse for OSU. Any new allegations, and OSU is flirting with a lack of institutional control charge, if they aren't already. There are some very nervous folks in Columbus right now. If what I've heard and read are true, and who knows if they are at this point, it is about to be a very long summer for OSU.

I feel bad for OSU fans. It has to be absolutely horrible to look at the possibility of the program being set back for a few years. The thing the fans can bank on is that they will be back, even if the program is gutted. OSU can survive this type of thing with the fan and booster support they have.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 09:01 AM
Did anyone here Thom Brennamen last night announce in the Reds game something to the tune like, "0It's a shame Tressel had to resign, I'd want my kid to play for him anyday", What a moron.

Mario-Rijo
05-31-2011, 09:14 AM
Did anyone here Thom Brennamen last night announce in the Reds game something to the tune like, "0It's a shame Tressel had to resign, I'd want my kid to play for him anyday", What a moron.

I can't believe you'd say that, unfreakingbelievable. :thumbdown: Let's not turn this into something it's not, Jim Tressel lied to cover up for the kids that play for him. Partly for the ones who got this mess started but largely for the rest of team who was gonna have to suffer for what this small group did. Yeah he lied and so he deserved to lose his job but let's not turn him into a super villain for it there are far worse things to be burned at the cross for than what he did.

bucksfan2
05-31-2011, 09:40 AM
Did anyone here Thom Brennamen last night announce in the Reds game something to the tune like, "0It's a shame Tressel had to resign, I'd want my kid to play for him anyday", What a moron.

I feel the same way. I am sure people who haven't gone to OSU or followed OSU won't realize what that man meant to the program. He brought back tradition to the program. He did everything you would want out of a football coach and a man. The singing of the alma matter after each game, bringing community back into the fold, the donation of time and money to the area.

Oh yea lets not forget that he placed record numbers of players into the NFL and as of last year ranked 5th out of college football in ARP rankings. The guy got his football players educated and drafted. He is exactly the type of coach I would want my son to play for.

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 10:02 AM
And, if rumors are true, he paid players (or at least knew of pay-for-play schemes).

He certainly broke the cardinal rule in the NCAA coach's handbook.

By almost all accounts, Tressel was a nice guy. But he was also a cheater and a liar.

Suprise, a god with feet of clay.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:06 AM
Denial about what? There's nothing to deny. If you look at the history of NCAA sanctions, the programs like USC, Michigan, Alabama, etc... you know what they share in common? Lots of money exchanging hands. This situation is nothing like that. It's not that Ohio State won't get in any trouble, it's simply those situations involved thousands and thousands of dollars and benefits to athletes. This situation is more about a coach not passing along information when he got it. There's such a huge difference it's not even remotely in the same ballpark.

I think Jim Calhoun and Connecticut's situation is more like what Ohio State will get, based on what we know.

C'mon Brutus. Grow up out of your naivete. You are already wrong on Tressel surviving. One investigation has led to another. Don't stand behind "what we know now". Unstand that we don't know much and that it's likely there's a lot of fire behind this smoke. OSU is looking at quite a bit more than what it has self imposed. This has allegedly been going on for nearly 10 yrs. OSU did not report it. They are in big big doo doo

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:12 AM
As far as SeaRay calling out the "homers". Nothing has changed just like Brutus said. I have said before that I think Tressel, needed to go. I am inclined to believe that unless another bombshell comes forward, and to this point one really hasn't other than some icky car deals. (Which supposedly was already cleared.) The story hasn't really changed.

I know this, I support Ohio State. I root for the university, the team, and the players on the field. I won't pull out and run like some other fans did from their team. I will support my interim coach, and whoever becomes the full time coach next season. There won't be any extra angst over the issue.

Nothing has changed? In March Tressel said he never even thought about retiring? Folks around here said no further penalties would come forth. I think losing your best ever coach is a huge penalty. It's clear that neither the university nor Tressel wanted it to come to this. They were fighting tooth and nail. Why do you think it came to this? I'll throw out a wild guess: maybe there's a lot more to this

That doesn't mean you can't fully support the program but don't stick your head in the sand and deny that a tsunami is coming

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:15 AM
It's really unfair for you to call anyone out for their opinion a few months ago.If the story had ended with Tressel lying to the NCAA I believe I'd of been correct and you would've been wrong.Not really any point in arguing it because we'll really never know.

I'm not going to speculate about what's in the upcoming SI article but the arthur of the story claimed on twitter today that Tressel calling it quits will make more sense once that information does come out.Not to mention all the other little things that have come out the last few months.

Tressel was certainly my all time favorite OSU coach.He wasn't perfect on or off the field but he is a good man.He's made some mistakes though.I will miss the guy being on the sideline but this program will move on.

You were naive to think this thing was limited to 5 players. You were naive to think that the NCAA wouldn't go through the program with a fine tooth comb and I doubt any major program could withstand that. Right now you're being naive to think that we've heard of everything they've uncovered

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:18 AM
Unnamed sources and named convicted felons as the sources. That was weak for some alleged bombshell.



Ahhh yes. The Pete Rose defense...

Roy Tucker
05-31-2011, 10:22 AM
I can't believe you'd say that, unfreakingbelievable. :thumbdown: Let's not turn this into something it's not, Jim Tressel lied to cover up for the kids that play for him. Partly for the ones who got this mess started but largely for the rest of team who was gonna have to suffer for what this small group did. Yeah he lied and so he deserved to lose his job but let's not turn him into a super villain for it there are far worse things to be burned at the cross for than what he did.

I still think Tressel is a good man, but lets also not make him into a saint that "took one for the team".

Frankly, I can't come up with any good reasons as to why he'd lie to the NCAA besides hoping that this mess could get swept under the rug and the OSU football machine could continue.

There will still continue to be a lot of OSU fans that are Jim Tressel fans. I'm still one, albeit a much more realistic one. He's still a good man. I don't know what its like to have my ethics and morals challenged almost every day. If a guy like Tressel gets worn down and lets himself get ethically compromised, it just makes me wonder if its really possible for big time NCAA Div. 1 coach to be anything but a glorified pro coach who wins at all costs.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 10:32 AM
I'm a Buckeyes fan, but not into idolatry, so none of this surprises me. I am saddened, but not because "there goes the season," but because I think Tressel had his King David moment of weakness with tattoogate, and now is having buffoon "investigators" having a field day with innuendo and unnamed sources.

College football/basketball is obviously as corrupt as ever. Jim Tressel got caught up in the whirlwind of an inequitable system, where he makes millions, while his players are supposed to play for the love of the game. I don't think that can be fixed, because I really can't think of a way to pay college football/basketball players and not water polo and lacrosse players. Stepping up the War on Cheating is probably impossible--you just wait for the disgruntled players to start talking.

Anyhow, the idolatry will continue, the money will continue to flow, and the exploitation of inner city kids for 2-4 years will continue, and then we will wag our self-righteous heads when they break rules to get theirs, and continue to call coaches liars and cheaters. College football/basketball corruption could probably make an entire season of "American Greed." It certainly gives us a glimpse into early American plantation life.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 10:43 AM
You were naive to think this thing was limited to 5 players. You were naive to think that the NCAA wouldn't go through the program with a fine tooth comb and I doubt any major program could withstand that. Right now you're being naive to think that we've heard of everything they've uncoveredOne of the points that seems a bit overplayed to me is that now they are saying "could be as many as a couple dozen players since 2002." What is that, a couple of players a year out there exploiting themselves in Columbus? I don't intend to minimize, just feel that number is not shock and awe as it is being presented.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 10:48 AM
I can't believe you'd say that, unfreakingbelievable. :thumbdown: Let's not turn this into something it's not, Jim Tressel lied to cover up for the kids that play for him. Partly for the ones who got this mess started but largely for the rest of team who was gonna have to suffer for what this small group did. Yeah he lied and so he deserved to lose his job but let's not turn him into a super villain for it there are far worse things to be burned at the cross for than what he did.

You need to read the SI story. Here's a guy that rigged raffles at team camps, so superstar high school kids won all the time to encourage them to come to OSU. Meanwhile, the average joes lose out. Jim Tressel lied because he didn't want his program to get caught, and he thought he was above the rules, and for no other reasons. His cheating goes back to when he was an asst. in the mid 80's at OSU, this is nothing new. No one is suggesting he be burned at a cross, but let's call him what he is, a liar, a cheater, and a con artist. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring facts.

IslandRed
05-31-2011, 11:00 AM
I still think Tressel is a good man, but lets also not make him into a saint that "took one for the team".

Frankly, I can't come up with any good reasons as to why he'd lie to the NCAA besides hoping that this mess could get swept under the rug and the OSU football machine could continue.

There will still continue to be a lot of OSU fans that are Jim Tressel fans. I'm still one, albeit a much more realistic one. He's still a good man. I don't know what its like to have my ethics and morals challenged almost every day. If a guy like Tressel gets worn down and lets himself get ethically compromised, it just makes me wonder if its really possible for big time NCAA Div. 1 coach to be anything but a glorified pro coach who wins at all costs.

Good post.

Truth is, there are no perfect people and no people devoid of at least a sliver of virtue; we're all some shade of gray on the scale. I think Tressel got what he had coming under the circumstances, but I'm not a fan of the latter-day impulse to leap upon a mistake and use it to erase or invalidate anything good that person ever did.

And as a graduate of a school that's been under the electron microscope and the hatchet jobs that come with it... good luck.

Unassisted
05-31-2011, 11:03 AM
Did anyone here Thom Brennamen last night announce in the Reds game something to the tune like, "0It's a shame Tressel had to resign, I'd want my kid to play for him anyday", What a moron.
I probably disagree with Thom more than I agree with him, but on this issue, he can speak for me. :beerme:

traderumor
05-31-2011, 11:08 AM
You need to read the SI story. Here's a guy that rigged raffles at team camps, so superstar high school kids won all the time to encourage them to come to OSU. Meanwhile, the average joes lose out. Jim Tressel lied because he didn't want his program to get caught, and he thought he was above the rules, and for no other reasons. His cheating goes back to when he was an asst. in the mid 80's at OSU, this is nothing new. No one is suggesting he be burned at a cross, but let's call him what he is, a liar, a cheater, and a con artist. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring facts.
Most people know by now, but since it is apparent you haven't been educated on this fine point, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The raffle story is so ludicrous that it brings the veracity of any of the "new" information contained in the article into question. I imagine he would have included Tressel's seedy Mexican cat juggling routine if it had been mentioned by a "source."

Roy Tucker
05-31-2011, 11:25 AM
Most moral challenges don't come as a big roaring thing that flies into your face with great fanfare. They come as a silent little sliver of a thought, an opportunity accompanied by a unstated wink, a private look, or a thing where it is easiest to do nothing and look the other way.

I don't think Tressel thought he was above it all. But I also think he did not want his program to get caught. I think he got caught up in the perpetuating of the OSU football machine, to keep the winning and to keep the money pouring in. There is immense day-to-day pressure for that. Keeping his star players on the field became his paramount thing. Instead of allowing the winning (and money) to get compromised and blow the whistle on his own guys, he let the winning at all costs dictate what he did. Or in this case, what he didn't do. What he didn't do was the right thing.

And once you start down that slippery slope, it just gets worse and worse. Particularly at a high-profile program like OSU. I think that big ball of crap starts rolling downhill and panic sets in. Bad decisions get compounded by even more bad decisions. And you end up saying "what happened?".

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 11:30 AM
One of the points that seems a bit overplayed to me is that now they are saying "could be as many as a couple dozen players since 2002." What is that, a couple of players a year out there exploiting themselves in Columbus? I don't intend to minimize, just feel that number is not shock and awe as it is being presented.

Don't get caught up in the numbers. The fact that it's been going on throughout the Tressel tenure but was never reported is a big problem. It sure sounds like a lack of institutional control to me

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 11:37 AM
I think we're all in agreement that OSU is not unusual in what their players were caught doing and that fact will work against them when it comes to the NCAAs ruling. Because "everyone was doing it" they'll want to make an example of OSU to send a message that "you'd better quit doing it because the risk of being caught ain't worth it."

In other words if OSU doesn't get painful, painful penalties, what's the incentive for other schools to curb this behavior? OSU is the ideal program to "make an example of".

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 11:41 AM
Most people know by now, but since it is apparent you haven't been educated on this fine point, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The raffle story is so ludicrous that it brings the veracity of any of the "new" information contained in the article into question. I imagine he would have included Tressel's seedy Mexican cat juggling routine if it had been mentioned by a "source."

You're right, SI, isn't a credible source. Wake up.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:01 PM
C'mon Brutus. Grow up out of your naivete. You are already wrong on Tressel surviving. One investigation has led to another. Don't stand behind "what we know now". Unstand that we don't know much and that it's likely there's a lot of fire behind this smoke. OSU is looking at quite a bit more than what it has self imposed. This has allegedly been going on for nearly 10 yrs. OSU did not report it. They are in big big doo doo

Naive? Please. I will stake everything I have that I know 10 times more about the inner workings of that program than you do. So please don't resort to calling me naive.

I spent five years covering it for a living. I know people in the program, athletic department, compliance, influential boosters, etc. I won't claim I'm always going to be right on opinions, but it absolutely is not borne out of being naive. So spare me the rhetoric on this.

If you want to play the naive angle, as an assignment, go look at the football programs that have received two-year bans (since people are comparing to USC). Look at the money changing hands and compare that to this. Then get back to me with a straight face and actually try to tell me the situations are anything remotely similar.

So far, we literally have only players trading tattoos for memorabilia and a coach not reporting it to the NCAA. We *may* have something on Pryor's cars, though it's so extremely early to know if anything will come of that.

So if you want to explain how that all leads to deep doo, I'm all ears. But if you're going to be intellectually honest with yourself and actually look at the case reports of the "serious" NCAA infractions that have been known (USC, Alabama, Michigan basketball, etc.), this is not even in the same ballpark.

The NCAA hasn't even charged Ohio State with failure to monitor -- the misdemeanor offense of lack of institutional control. But you want to call me naive? Excuse me if I'm going to find that terribly funny.

The SI article, if you read my posts all the way (which clearly you didn't), did not shed even an ounce of new information about Ohio State. It went into a little more detail about the tattoo stuff, but again, does that really change anything? Again, Ohio State did report what they knew. Even if a few more players were involved, does it change much? Further, it IS based on the account of a convicted felon. Want to know the credibility of the account? One player mentioned for trading for a tattoo (Storm Klein) has already been proven to not even own a tattoo. Again, there might be *some* truth to the article, but going solely off the word of unnamed sources and convicted felons isn't wise, as we've now found out with at least one player not owning a tattoo as was claimed.

I have a real good hunch who was the unnamed source. And if it's that person, it's a guy that didn't get a raise from Tressel, hasn't been welcomed back into the football offices for quite some time, and is upset at Tressel for limiting his extra marital affairs around the workplace. There could well be a serious ax to grind there. But again, I'm naive, what do I know about the situation. Right?

Ohio State football, as far as boosters are concerned, is dirty. It has been, always will be regardless of who the coach is. Literally it won't ever matter who the coach is. It cannot be stopped there, at Kentucky, at USC, at Alabama or anywhere else. There's no way to shut it down. But Jim Tressel, unlike Scrap's bogus claims, is someone with the utmost integrity I've ever met in the industry. Period. As Island said in a post above, that doesn't mean Tressel is perfect and hasn't made mistakes. Far from it. But I'd stake his character against any head coach in the country bar none. If people want programs to not cheat, you should want 120 Tressels coaching college football. It might not stop boosters from doing their thing, but you'd have the coaching staffs playing by the rules as best as possible.

RiverRat13
05-31-2011, 12:08 PM
I have no personal knowledge on his reasoning, but I find it hard to believe that Tress didn't report the violations just to protect his players. He knew he had a legitimate shot at a MNC in '10 and while I'm sure he took steps to put a stop to the Tat5 himself, the chance at another title had to have played a major part for not going to Compliance with what he knew. And for that it was necessary for him to go.

That said, the raffle story may be the most inane aside that found its way into a "major" publication that I've ever read.

Sea Ray - I'll flip your question. OSU self-reported most of what we know and unlike USC who stone-walled the NCAA for four years, OSU has cooperated with the NCAA. So if OSU gets killed in their penalty, why would any institution self-report anything they find? Why not roll the dice and hope that nothing comes to light?

If nothing else comes out, my prediction is OSU loses 3-5 scholarships, forfeits 2010 wins and has a 2011 post-season ban. If anything comes of the car or Pryor situations, then I'll guess no post-season in '11 and '12 and a loss of about 10 total scholarships at a minimum. In any scenario, Gene Smith should be fired.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:13 PM
I think we're all in agreement that OSU is not unusual in what their players were caught doing and that fact will work against them when it comes to the NCAAs ruling. Because "everyone was doing it" they'll want to make an example of OSU to send a message that "you'd better quit doing it because the risk of being caught ain't worth it."

In other words if OSU doesn't get painful, painful penalties, what's the incentive for other schools to curb this behavior? OSU is the ideal program to "make an example of".

Ohio State has led the entire country in self-reported violations to the NCAA for the last six years running.

Do you really think the program that self-reports the most violations is the one that should be made an example of? Interesting logic there.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 12:16 PM
If people want programs to not cheat, you should want 120 Tressels coaching college football. It might not stop boosters from doing their thing, but you'd have the coaching staffs playing by the rules as best as possible.


I didn't know this was the comedy forum!:laugh::lol:

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 12:17 PM
Ohio State has led the entire country in self-reported violations to the NCAA for the last six years running.

Do you really think the program that self-reports the most violations is the one that should be made an example of? Interesting logic there.

Ummmmmmmmm they seemed to have "forgotten" to self report quite a few. Maybe they should check Tressel's email inbox for some more?

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:22 PM
Ummmmmmmmm they seemed to have "forgotten" to self report quite a few. Maybe they should check Tressel's email inbox for some more?

You apparently haven't got a firm grasp of the situation. They did self-report those violations. But in case you "forgot," it was self-reported in December when it came back from the FBI. Remember when this whole thing came public? It was because OSU self-reported it to the NCAA in December. The only issue was that it didn't get done when Tressel first learned of it, but rather happened after the FBI turned the information over to Ohio State.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 12:28 PM
You apparently haven't got a firm grasp of the situation. They did self-report those violations. But in case you "forgot," it was self-reported in December when it came back from the FBI. Remember when this whole thing came public? It was because OSU self-reported it to the NCAA in December. The only issue was that it didn't get done when Tressel first learned of it, but rather happened after the FBI turned the information over to Ohio State.

Yeah, they somehow "forgot" to report it until the season was over. When did the violations take place? Didn't they "self report it" right as the story was breaking anyway? I guess you are "forgetting" some facts as well. The bolded doesn't make that self report useless or anything does it?

dabvu2498
05-31-2011, 12:32 PM
Play nice, gents.

This is something some folks take very personally. Keep that in mind.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:33 PM
Yeah, they somehow "forgot" to report it until the season was over. When did the violations take place? Didn't they "self report it" right as the story was breaking anyway? I guess you are "forgetting" some facts as well. The bolded doesn't make that self report useless or anything does it?

No. That's not accurate. Ohio State was contacted by the U.S. Attorney's office on Dec. 8 of the evidence uncovered that they had found OSU memorabilia belonging to Ohio State players. Ohio State investigated it and then turned over the information to the NCAA in a self-report of violations on Dec. 17.

The issue was whether or not Tressel should have turned it over in April when he learned of the allegations from a third-party source. He said the reason he didn't was because he felt discretion was necessary due to an ongoing criminal investigation (which was true). Whether or not that was his motivation is perfectly reasonable to debate.

But it doesn't change the fact that when Ohio State was officially notified of uncovering the memorabilia, OSU did self-report the violations a week later. That's a fact.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 12:46 PM
I have no personal knowledge on his reasoning, but I find it hard to believe that Tress didn't report the violations just to protect his players. He knew he had a legitimate shot at a MNC in '10 and while I'm sure he took steps to put a stop to the Tat5 himself, the chance at another title had to have played a major part for not going to Compliance with what he knew. And for that it was necessary for him to go.

That said, the raffle story may be the most inane aside that found its way into a "major" publication that I've ever read.

Sea Ray - I'll flip your question. OSU self-reported most of what we know and unlike USC who stone-walled the NCAA for four years, OSU has cooperated with the NCAA. So if OSU gets killed in their penalty, why would any institution self-report anything they find? Why not roll the dice and hope that nothing comes to light?

I'm under the impression they haven't been reporting these tatoo shop dealings that have been going on since 2002. Do you think they did?


If nothing else comes out, my prediction is OSU loses 3-5 scholarships, forfeits 2010 wins and has a 2011 post-season ban. If anything comes of the car or Pryor situations, then I'll guess no post-season in '11 and '12 and a loss of about 10 total scholarships at a minimum. In any scenario, Gene Smith should be fired.

That's reasonable but it's much much more than Brutus and others predicted

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 12:49 PM
Naive? Please. I will stake everything I have that I know 10 times more about the inner workings of that program than you do. So please don't resort to calling me naive.

I spent five years covering it for a living. I know people in the program, athletic department, compliance, influential boosters, etc. I won't claim I'm always going to be right on opinions, but it absolutely is not borne out of being naive. So spare me the rhetoric on this.



OK, so why didn't you see this Tressel firing coming?

Do you still think they won't receive anymore penalties than what they've already self imposed?

Brutus
05-31-2011, 12:53 PM
OK, so why didn't you see this Tressel firing coming?

Do you still think they won't receive anymore penalties than what they've already self imposed?

Because at the time, he had full support from his AD, President and the Board of Trustees. That's since changed.

If you want to be technical, the 'official' account is that he wasn't fired. He resigned. Note: I don't at all believe that to be the case, but just to be clear, he wasn't technically fired :)

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 12:56 PM
But Jim Tressel, unlike Scrap's bogus claims, is someone with the utmost integrity I've ever met in the industry. Period.

Jim Tressel was caught lying to the NCAA.

He also knowingly cheated.

It was in all the papers. Perhaps you heard about it?

Brutus
05-31-2011, 01:05 PM
Jim Tressel was caught lying to the NCAA.

He also knowingly cheated.

It was in all the papers. Perhaps you heard about it?

I'm guessing you've lied and cheated at some point. So Scrap is a liar and cheater.

Something tells me you'd take exception to that characterization, though.

Hoosier Red
05-31-2011, 01:05 PM
I can't believe you'd say that, unfreakingbelievable. :thumbdown: Let's not turn this into something it's not, Jim Tressel lied to cover up for the kids that play for him. Partly for the ones who got this mess started but largely for the rest of team who was gonna have to suffer for what this small group did. Yeah he lied and so he deserved to lose his job but let's not turn him into a super villain for it there are far worse things to be burned at the cross for than what he did.

As other's have mentioned, I think it's hard to take what Tressel says at face value. No one knows what he was thinking when he decided to not to self report.

He says it was to "protect the players involved and to not disturb the criminal investigation." However, even if he did this only because he was afraid that a 2 game suspension would interfere with his ability to beat Miami in week 2, he would still say something to that effect.

Further, just because you can sympathize with his rationale, the fact is that his actions were 100% against the rules for the NCAA.
Had he said that he had not disclosed for the reason mentioned, but understood that those actions have consequences and resigned when it came to light, I'd have a lot more faith that his decision not to report the violations were completely selfless.

But the fact of the matter is that he has done everything he could to not let additional information come to light. At the very least the University has done everything it could to not allow additional information come to light through the media. To me that screams of self preservation, and that casts doubt about his rationale for not reporting the violations.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 01:09 PM
You're right, SI, isn't a credible source. Wake up.

Sent from my Desire HD using TapatalkYea, silly me, its in SI. What was I thinking? :lol:

remdog
05-31-2011, 01:10 PM
The thing that I really resent about Tressel is that he ran away on Memorial Day. That's a day that should be reserved for the young men and women that died for their country. Young people that will never, ever again be able to dream their dreams. Tressel, and Ohio State for that matter, could have waited for one more day. Tressel should not have been the story on Memorial Day. JMO.

Rem

RiverRat13
05-31-2011, 01:12 PM
I'm under the impression they haven't been reporting these tatoo shop dealings that have been going on since 2002. Do you think they did?


I don't think they knew about the tattoo shop dealings since 2002. Self-report means you turn it in once you find out, not that you know every single infraction your kids are committing.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 01:13 PM
Because at the time, he had full support from his AD, President and the Board of Trustees. That's since changed.



Why do you suppose that support changed? Surely there has to be a reason. I'm going to go out on a limb and say some very egregious stuff was uncovered.

The following has been posted by folks underestimating the depth of these problems at OSU:


--I think it will mostly satisfy them. He might be given some off-campus recruiting restrictions or something along those lines, but I tend to think it will be about this penalty.

--As far as his contract... he's not given that kind of bonus. I've seen his contract and his total possible compensation is south of $3 million. So $250k is a big chunk of change. Tressel's actual guaranteed base compensation is less than $1 million.

--I think they may add on another game or possibly not allow him Spring Practice or Summer Camps if they do the investigation fast enough. I do think that OSU self reported this once they did know will keep this from blowing up to USC sized proportions.

--On the question of additional sanctions against Ohio State, I don't think they get any, outside of recruiting restrictions dealing with visits, and offcampus contact limits for Jim Tressel himself.

As hard as I've been on OSU throughout this process the truth is I was naive as to how bad this thing was. I thought Tressel would survive.

Folks, learn from your mistakes. See how silly those comments seem now? Don't double down on the silliness. OSU is looking at huge sanctions now that goes well beyond vacating wins. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. I think Tenn basketball is going to get slammed and the football program will get dunged as well.

RiverRat13
05-31-2011, 01:14 PM
The thing that I really resent about Tressel is that he ran away on Memorial Day. That's a day that should be reserved for the young men and women that died for their country. Young people that will never, ever again be able to dream their dreams. Tressel, and Ohio State for that matter, could have waited for one more day. Tressel should not have been the story on Memorial Day. JMO.

Rem

From what I've read, JT had just gotten back from vacation and AD Gene Smith called to meet with him on Sunday and asked him to resign. If you want to blame someone for the timing, you have to blame Smith.

5TimeWSChamps
05-31-2011, 01:15 PM
Anyone seen BuckeyeRed27, or is his head still in the sand?

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 01:18 PM
No. That's not accurate. Ohio State was contacted by the U.S. Attorney's office on Dec. 8 of the evidence uncovered that they had found OSU memorabilia belonging to Ohio State players. Ohio State investigated it and then turned over the information to the NCAA in a self-report of violations on Dec. 17.

The issue was whether or not Tressel should have turned it over in April when he learned of the allegations from a third-party source. He said the reason he didn't was because he felt discretion was necessary due to an ongoing criminal investigation (which was true). Whether or not that was his motivation is perfectly reasonable to debate.

But it doesn't change the fact that when Ohio State was officially notified of uncovering the memorabilia, OSU did self-report the violations a week later. That's a fact.

You think?

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 01:20 PM
I'm guessing you've lied and cheated at some point. So Scrap is a liar and cheater.

Something tells me you'd take exception to that characterization, though.

Nope. I'm as human as anyone. Made more mistakes than most, true.

But if I'm guilty of a crime, I certainly don't want anyone to deify my poor behavior as somehow noble. To insist I was "doing it for the kids".

I have lied. I have cheated. So have you, Brutus.

So did Jim Tressel.

The difference is that I didn't lie or knowingly break the rules that kept me employed. He did. Publically.

I completely understand why he did it, but, in the end, he did it.

It's not a bogus charge, as you said in your post.

It's completely true.

remdog
05-31-2011, 01:32 PM
From what I've read, JT had just gotten back from vacation and AD Gene Smith called to meet with him on Sunday and asked him to resign. If you want to blame someone for the timing, you have to blame Smith.

Fine. Then blame Gene Smith or whoever you want but the result is the same. One day of respect would not make a difference.

Rem

jojo
05-31-2011, 01:43 PM
You apparently haven't got a firm grasp of the situation. They did self-report those violations. But in case you "forgot," it was self-reported in December when it came back from the FBI. Remember when this whole thing came public? It was because OSU self-reported it to the NCAA in December. The only issue was that it didn't get done when Tressel first learned of it, but rather happened after the FBI turned the information over to Ohio State.

So really one wouldn't want 120 Tressells coaching college football...one would want 120 OSU compliance offices running football programs....

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 01:46 PM
Anyone seen BuckeyeRed27, or is his head still in the sand?

Glad to see you missed me honey.

I think what Brutus has said in this thread really mirrors my opinion on this situation. If Tressel had wanted to stay on board I believe he would have been allowed to do that. Perhaps there is something else that hasn't come to the surface yet that forced Smith's hand, but I kind of doubt that. I think the publicity wore them down and Tressel did what he thought he had to do.

The SI article completely lacks credibility. Brutus made some points above about the raffle stuff. The authors main point was that Tressel was completely clueless about what was going on with his team. While he may not have known about the depth of some of the issues he brought up, the fact is many of the players he named (Small, Bell, Irizarry, Martin, Rose) were kicked off the team or suspended at some point in the OSU career so JT knew there were issues with these players and was trying to deal with them. The biggest crediblity issue that article has is that two players (Hines and Klien) have come out and said that they have all their rings and what not and never got tattoos at that shop. Klien has never recieved a tattoo while at OSU. Another player, Simon, doesn't even have tattoos yet his name was right there in the article. If you are going to write an article slamming the credibility of another person you better make sure your article has all it's facts straight and there are already problems with his story and its only been about about 12 hours. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that his two main sources are a crack head and a disgruntled former employee. So sorry if I don't take everything that guy has to say as gospel.

As to what happens next with the NCAA is some what pointless to argue since it's the NCAA. I still don't feel this is on the same level as the USC situation or even the UNC football situation. OSU has now lost it's coach which is probably worse than any reasonable punishment they can dole out. I've said before they will probably have to vacate last season. With Tressel gone now they might take away some scholarships instead of directly restricting recruiting visits which I felt was what they were going to do if he stayed. But from a compliance stand point OSU has handled this exactly the way the NCAA wants their members too. They are going to send a poor message if they slam the school for that since there will be no incentive for being open to their investigations.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 01:47 PM
Nope. I'm as human as anyone. Made more mistakes than most, true.

But if I'm guilty of a crime, I certainly don't want anyone to deify my poor behavior as somehow noble. To insist I was "doing it for the kids".

I have lied. I have cheated. So have you, Brutus.

So did Jim Tressel.

The difference is that I didn't lie or knowingly break the rules that kept me employed. He did. Publically.

I completely understand why he did it, but, in the end, he did it.

It's not a bogus charge, as you said in your post.

It's completely true.

Of course we all have. But that's my point. Integrity isn't an absolute barometer. It's a subjective measure that varies from person to person but intent is a large key to whether or not someone has it. But it's largely relative so having lied or cheated shouldn't label someone a liar or cheater. By that measure, we're all liars or cheaters so it's pointless to pin the label on anyone because we all are.

Relative to the others in his profession, Tressel plays by the book much more than most if not all. I'll stand by that because I know how he operates. A lot of coaches and a lot of programs aggressively push the boundaries of the letter of the law. Some knowingly cheat in minor things like phone calls, contacts, etc. Others blatantly pay off players to acquire their services or arrange it. I assure you that while perhaps most if not all coaches fall in one of those three categories, he's without question on the more noble end of the spectrum. And that's the point. No one is perfect but he's absolutely one of the better ones. He's much more part of the solution than part of the problem.

Is he guilty of knowing things happen with boosters? Absolutely. What coach isn't. But at the same time, what can a coach really do about it? He can't babysit 85 players. He certainly cannot stop them from doing what they're going to do. How do you stop it? People have unrealistic expectations of a coach in a college program. Since I know Tressel is not a guy that pays players or arranges to pay players, and I'm confident he's not purposely trying to cheat to gain and advantage, it's completely irrational to label him as a liar and a cheater. The most he's guilty of is turning the other way and protecting his players at times. But you've said many times there's not a coach that doesn't do that. So I'd rather he be judged by the things he can control.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 01:53 PM
So really one wouldn't want 120 Tressells coaching college football...one would want 120 OSU compliance offices running football programs....

Except that the worst someone can say about Tressel is that he didn't rat out a player. He didn't report something someone else did to the NCAA. That is the worst anyone can say about him right now. Where a lot of coaches are calling recruits too much, evaluating them during dead periods, running guys out of a program to oversign recruits, or outright being accused of paying players, the worst Tressel offense is that he didn't rat out a few players to the NCAA. And all the while a case could be made that in his eyes the reason he didn't do it is because it was an ongoing legal investigation and he didn't see fit to interrupt it until its' conclusion. Think about that for a second and let it sink it what Tressel is being charged with and how tame it is.

If the worst one can say about a coach is that he didn't turn in a player for selling their own belongings... I absolutely wish all 120 D-1 football programs had that kind of character.

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 01:59 PM
Except that the worst someone can say about Tressel is that he didn't rat out a player. He didn't report something someone else did to the NCAA. That is the worst anyone can say about him right now. Where a lot of coaches are calling recruits too much, evaluating them during dead periods, running guys out of a program to oversign recruits, or outright being accused of paying players, the worst Tressel offense is that he didn't rat out a few players to the NCAA. And all the while a case could be made that in his eyes the reason he didn't do it is because it was an ongoing legal investigation and he didn't see fit to interrupt it until its' conclusion. Think about that for a second and let it sink it what Tressel is being charged with and how tame it is.

If the worst one can say about a coach is that he didn't turn in a player for selling their own belongings... I absolutely wish all 120 D-1 football programs had that kind of character.

To add onto this point I would also say that the reason he did this was not entirely selfish and motivated by just winning football games. There is certainly that element I won't argue that. However having dealth with Coach a few times, he typically handles issues with the team like a parent would deal with a child. He cares about his players and I believe he feels that he is the best person to teach them a lesson when they mess up. I'm not excusing how he handled this situation, but that is his primary motivation. His approach goes far beyond football and he takes (or took) his role as a mentor and a "father figure" very seriously.

Roy Tucker
05-31-2011, 02:00 PM
Except that the worst someone can say about Tressel is that he didn't rat out a player. He didn't report something someone else did to the NCAA. That is the worst anyone can say about him right now. Where a lot of coaches are calling recruits too much, evaluating them during dead periods, running guys out of a program to oversign recruits, or outright being accused of paying players, the worst Tressel offense is that he didn't rat out a few players to the NCAA. And all the while a case could be made that in his eyes the reason he didn't do it is because it was an ongoing legal investigation and he didn't see fit to interrupt it until its' conclusion. Think about that for a second and let it sink it what Tressel is being charged with and how tame it is.

If the worst one can say about a coach is that he didn't turn in a player for selling their own belongings... I absolutely wish all 120 D-1 football programs had that kind of character.

Nah. I'm not buying it. "Rat out" carries a pretty negative stigma for doing the right thing.

If he wants to do the best thing for the long term health of the OSU football program, to continue his coaching, and to continue a very positive and winning tradition, you fess up and admit your mistakes. He's a grown-up. This isn't a gang where you you each other's backs at all costs. He was in a place of leadership and of great responsibilities. And with those great responsibilities comes great expectations. And he is expected to be held to high standards. And he didn't, plain and simple.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 02:05 PM
I don't think they knew about the tattoo shop dealings since 2002. Self-report means you turn it in once you find out, not that you know every single infraction your kids are committing.Hey, they saw the tats, and it sure would have been reasonable for them to say, "you aren't selling your gold pants for tats are you?" ;)

jojo
05-31-2011, 02:06 PM
Except that the worst someone can say about Tressel is that he didn't rat out a player. He didn't report something someone else did to the NCAA. That is the worst anyone can say about him right now. Where a lot of coaches are calling recruits too much, evaluating them during dead periods, running guys out of a program to oversign recruits, or outright being accused of paying players, the worst Tressel offense is that he didn't rat out a few players to the NCAA. And all the while a case could be made that in his eyes the reason he didn't do it is because it was an ongoing legal investigation and he didn't see fit to interrupt it until its' conclusion. Think about that for a second and let it sink it what Tressel is being charged with and how tame it is.

If the worst one can say about a coach is that he didn't turn in a player for selling their own belongings... I absolutely wish all 120 D-1 football programs had that kind of character.

But he emailed several people about these issues while deliberately failing to email his compliance people.... Tressel is being taken to task for deliberately misleading the NCAA in a way that allowed him to play players who might otherwise have been ineligible. There is nothing tame about that.

jredmo2
05-31-2011, 02:09 PM
This information doesn't really do me any good.

It certainly doesn't unmow all those lawns I mowed to save up for all those raffle tickets.

It doesn't change the abject despair I felt as, year after year, my dreams of raffle glory were dashed.

It doesn't erase all those childhood nights I spent lying awake in a deep malaise, losing raffle tickets crumpled on my bedside table.

Nor does it erase all those summers where I thought perhaps my ship had come in, the summer football camp raffle drawing me in like a raccoon to so much garbage, unaware that my journey was a futile one due to my distinct lack of football ability.

But it is nice to have some closure, let me tell you that. Now I can live again.

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 02:09 PM
Relative to the others in his profession, Tressel plays by the book much more than most if not all. I'll stand by that because I know how he operates. A lot of coaches and a lot of programs aggressively push the boundaries of the letter of the law. Some knowingly cheat in minor things like phone calls, contacts, etc. Others blatantly pay off players to acquire their services or arrange it. I assure you that while perhaps most if not all coaches fall in one of those three categories, he's without question on the more noble end of the spectrum. And that's the point. No one is perfect but he's absolutely one of the better ones. He's much more part of the solution than part of the problem.

Is he guilty of knowing things happen with boosters? Absolutely. What coach isn't. But at the same time, what can a coach really do about it? He can't babysit 85 players. He certainly cannot stop them from doing what they're going to do. How do you stop it? People have unrealistic expectations of a coach in a college program. Since I know Tressel is not a guy that pays players or arranges to pay players, and I'm confident he's not purposely trying to cheat to gain and advantage, it's completely irrational to label him as a liar and a cheater. The most he's guilty of is turning the other way and protecting his players at times. But you've said many times there's not a coach that doesn't do that. So I'd rather he be judged by the things he can control.

When push came to shove, Brutus, Tressel chose to lie. When confronted with an opportunity to show that infamous integrity, he lied, cheated, then lied again.

That had nothing to do with boosters or anyone else.

It was all on him.

He was proven a liar and a cheat.

To say I'm somehow misrepresenting the truth or making "bogus" claims is simply dishonest of you.

__________________

As an aside, I once was a huge Kentucky fan. I was able to meet Eddie Sutton and his son, Shaun, along with Joe B. Hall and some other movers and shakers in the Kentucky basketball world. I was a kid, remember-- 12 or 13-- and didn't know my butt from a hole in the ground.

But Eddie Sutton talked with me for a few minutes and was incredibly polite and seemed genuinely interested in my responses.

A couple years later, the Emory Scandal hit.

I denied it because I knew Eddie Sutton. He was a good man. Emory must have planted the package. Someone from another school must have screwed up Eric Manuel's ACT.

I couldn't jibe my own knowledge of Sutton with what happened.

Now, I'm not conflating my ten-minute (at the most) conversation with Sutton to your time spent talking about tOSU sports for a fan site, but I think the situations are closer than you might think.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 02:13 PM
I won't to pretend to speak for all Buckeyes, but this one knows that there is some serious wrongdoing here. Its making the Cooper era look clean.

It sure would be nice though, to see the wrongdoing represented properly instead of just turning it into a quagmire of urban legends (raffles, dope parties) with truth (tatoo bartering).

I guess that is the nature of PR. When you lose control of the story, its anything goes, and any schlep wanting to make some money or with a vendetta to settle will be spinning stories and it will be near impossible to decipher truth from fiction. The SI story seems to be what will be the first of many "real stories."

SeeinRed
05-31-2011, 02:13 PM
I think what Brutus has said in this thread really mirrors my opinion on this situation. If Tressel had wanted to stay on board I believe he would have been allowed to do that. Perhaps there is something else that hasn't come to the surface yet that forced Smith's hand, but I kind of doubt that. I think the publicity wore them down and Tressel did what he thought he had to do.

It is not believed by many, even those close to the program, that staying on at OSU was a choice. He was most likely given a resign or be fired ultimatum. It would not suprise me at all if something else comes out that tells the rest of the story.

In the end, most knew the chances of Tressel keeping his job were slim. History told us that.



As to what happens next with the NCAA is some what pointless to argue since it's the NCAA. I still don't feel this is on the same level as the USC situation or even the UNC football situation. OSU has now lost it's coach which is probably worse than any reasonable punishment they can dole out. I've said before they will probably have to vacate last season. With Tressel gone now they might take away some scholarships instead of directly restricting recruiting visits which I felt was what they were going to do if he stayed. But from a compliance stand point OSU has handled this exactly the way the NCAA wants their members too. They are going to send a poor message if they slam the school for that since there will be no incentive for being open to their investigations.

Its tough to speculate on what OSU will face in the end, but I'd say you have a pretty rosy view. Investigations are still ongoing, and some more could be coming. OSU is in a mess right now, and speculation on sanctions is near impossible. Bowl bans, loss of scholarships, and recruiting restrictions are all very much on the table as well as vacated wins.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 02:23 PM
Nah. I'm not buying it. "Rat out" carries a pretty negative stigma for doing the right thing.

If he wants to do the best thing for the long term health of the OSU football program, to continue his coaching, and to continue a very positive and winning tradition, you fess up and admit your mistakes. He's a grown-up. This isn't a gang where you you each other's backs at all costs. He was in a place of leadership and of great responsibilities. And with those great responsibilities comes great expectations. And he is expected to be held to high standards. And he didn't, plain and simple.

Well, the ironic thing is, after all the dust settles, we might find out that he did report this to OSU compliance, which will mean it is they, and not Tressel, that didn't do the right thing. We'll see how that shakes out, but there are a lot of people close to the situation the believe compliance was notified by Tressel of the emails.

A partial basis for that stems from the March 8 press conference, which can be found here. At the 1:20 mark, Tressel is asked if he'd forward the emails to anyone (in other words told anyone about what he heard). He starts to nod his head yes before Gene Smith interrupts and cuts off the question saying they can't get into that.

We might find out, as this gets deeper, that it was compliance rather than Tressel that initially didn't report it. Of course, Ohio State did ultimately report it to the NCAA before anyone else knew about it, so maybe they had legal reasons or maybe it was just flat out a failure in reporting initially. We don't know, and may never know. But the possibility exists that Tressel himself didn't hide anything.

But let's set that aside since we don't know that for certain. Even taking things at face value, while I'm not going to claim there absolutely wasn't any ulterior motives, don't you agree it's possible that when you're told about confidentiality of an ongoing criminal case, you might be inclined to let that play out before jeopardizing it? After all, Tressel knows if he reports that, there's a possibility it becomes public domain and if he thinks that could mess up a criminal case, it's not unreasonable that that may have been a concern. Do you agree that's a possibility? We do know he was told there were legal issues and that a reasonable expectation of confidentiality was expected (as that was contained in the emails that were released). So while perhaps not everyone will believe that, one would have to admit it's certainly possible. And since we don't know what was going through his mind at the time, it's not prudent for anyone to make definitive conclusions based on that.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 02:28 PM
When push came to shove, Brutus, Tressel chose to lie. When confronted with an opportunity to show that infamous integrity, he lied, cheated, then lied again.

That had nothing to do with boosters or anyone else.

It was all on him.

He was proven a liar and a cheat.

To say I'm somehow misrepresenting the truth or making "bogus" claims is simply dishonest of you.

__________________

As an aside, I once was a huge Kentucky fan. I was able to meet Eddie Sutton and his son, Shaun, along with Joe B. Hall and some other movers and shakers in the Kentucky basketball world. I was a kid, remember-- 12 or 13-- and didn't know my butt from a hole in the ground.

But Eddie Sutton talked with me for a few minutes and was incredibly polite and seemed genuinely interested in my responses.

A couple years later, the Emory Scandal hit.

I denied it because I knew Eddie Sutton. He was a good man. Emory must have planted the package. Someone from another school must have screwed up Eric Manuel's ACT.

I couldn't jibe my own knowledge of Sutton with what happened.

Now, I'm not conflating my ten-minute (at the most) conversation with Sutton to your time spent talking about tOSU sports for a fan site, but I think the situations are closer than you might think.

I'm not being dishonest about anything when I say those claims are bogus, as I have been exposed to far more than a 10 minute conversation (and not at 12 or 13 mind you) as it pertains to this particular program.

As far as the 'lying' is concerned. He lied to the media but he didn't lie to the NCAA. You say tomato, I'm sure, but while he didn't, at least that we yet know, turn over the emails to compliance for reporting, he also never once lied to the NCAA. The only conversations he had with the NCAA, he told the truth. Again, that's a subtle but legitimate difference. Whereas, using Bruce Pearl as an example, he flat out denied an allegation to the NCAA, Tressel's situation is that he didn't turn over information. He lied to the media, but he only failed to report something to the NCAA. Let's be clear on that.

But we're all liars and cheaters. So I'm not sure what it does to illustrate your point by calling Tressel a liar and a cheater.

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 02:36 PM
As far as the 'lying' is concerned. He lied to the media but he didn't lie to the NCAA. You say tomato, I'm sure, but while he didn't, at least that we yet know, turn over the emails to compliance for reporting, he also never once lied to the NCAA. The only conversations he had with the NCAA, he told the truth. Again, that's a subtle but legitimate difference. Whereas, using Bruce Pearl as an example, he flat out denied an allegation to the NCAA, Tressel's situation is that he didn't turn over information. He lied to the media, but he only failed to report something to the NCAA. Let's be clear on that.

No, he lied to the NCAA investigators, Brutus.

When he signed the paper verifying information, he knowingly signed a false document. That's a lie.

There's no grey area here. No conspiracy against Tressel.

He lied. He's guilty.

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 02:43 PM
No, he lied to the NCAA investigators, Brutus.

When he signed the paper verifying information, he knowingly signed a false document. That's a lie.

There's no grey area here. No conspiracy against Tressel.

He lied. He's guilty.

Those are technically different things. The one is a mandatory compliance document that he signed in September or something that said he didn't know anything. When he met with investigators in December he did tell them he knew something.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 02:46 PM
But we're all liars and cheaters. So I'm not sure what it does to illustrate your point by calling Tressel a liar and a cheater.

Yeah, but we don't all publish this.........maybe we should read it?

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 02:52 PM
Yeah, but we don't all publish this.........maybe we should read it?

You should. It's a good book and gives some good advice on how to approach life and set goals.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 02:56 PM
Yeah, but we don't all publish this.........maybe we should read it?I am as guilty as the next guy, but I'm learning not to rejoice over someone else's misfortune because I might be next. And that includes when someone has held themselves out as being a paragon of virtue or of vice.

I've also learned that the more one rejoices, the more likely it is that they might be next.

Scrap Irony
05-31-2011, 02:58 PM
When he met with investigators in December he did tell them he knew something.

Allegedly, only after they asked him again. And showed him the email in question.

westofyou
05-31-2011, 03:04 PM
Talk about CYA mode.

I'm sure if this occurred in Michigan most of the POV's would just be a tad different.

Homerism lives on... even as the vest has left the building excuses are being built like a straw house in a strong and prevailing wind.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 03:05 PM
You were naive to think this thing was limited to 5 players. You were naive to think that the NCAA wouldn't go through the program with a fine tooth comb and I doubt any major program could withstand that. Right now you're being naive to think that we've heard of everything they've uncovered

I'm not sure if your paying attention but it was and still is limited to 5 players.Those are the guys Tressel lied to the NCAA about.

I'm not sure why you believe I think this is over because I don't.What I do believe is that there will be many OSU haters that are very disappointed when the following events unfold.

1.NCAA makes their final ruling in August on the OSU violations

2.NCAA football regular season begins and OSU is allowed to participate and for some reason is still being considered the favorite to win the Big 10

3.OSU wins the Big 10

4.OSU participates in another BCS bowl game following the 2011 regular season

Now I admit that I may be wrong on one of these things but I still believe the odds are that I'll be right on all four.That's not really my point though.What I'm trying to say is that none of this stuff going on will be the death blow to OSU that many people wants it be.

IslandRed
05-31-2011, 03:11 PM
Well, the ironic thing is, after all the dust settles, we might find out that he did report this to OSU compliance, which will mean it is they, and not Tressel, that didn't do the right thing. We'll see how that shakes out, but there are a lot of people close to the situation the believe compliance was notified by Tressel of the emails.

So you're asking everyone to believe that, after the situation became known anyway, the university chose to throw the beloved Jim Tressel onto the spikes instead of whacking a few anonymous compliance people. And Tressel played along and ultimately resigned instead of declaring his innocence.

I suppose it's not THE most unlikely thing I've ever heard, crazy world that we live in, but it takes a few humongous leaps to get to "yeah, it could have happened that way."

Chip R
05-31-2011, 03:13 PM
I won't to pretend to speak for all Buckeyes, but this one knows that there is some serious wrongdoing here. Its making the Cooper era look clean.

It sure would be nice though, to see the wrongdoing represented properly instead of just turning it into a quagmire of urban legends (raffles, dope parties) with truth (tatoo bartering).

I guess that is the nature of PR. When you lose control of the story, its anything goes, and any schlep wanting to make some money or with a vendetta to settle will be spinning stories and it will be near impossible to decipher truth from fiction. The SI story seems to be what will be the first of many "real stories."

The problem with knowing the absolute truth is that a lot of the time it can't be verified. The media usually has to go with what they can verify.

Tressel did some dishonest things. I believe it was so tOSU could sustain football glory. Were his intentions good? I suppose it depends on who you ask. The end result of it was that tOSU is going to probably have to forfeit all of their wins from last year (except the Sugar Bowl because how hilarious would it be for the NCAA to have a school forfeit a game in which they declared the players in question eligible?)

This is more than likely going to hurt recruiting and it's going to hurt the credibility of the program. Gene Smith may not survive this. Gee may not survive this since he put his own seal of approval on Tressel at the press conference. A lot of holier-than-thou Buckeye fans can't point fingers anymore at SEC schools or USC or even Michigan. Right now I see things like, "Oh, Tressel cheated but he's still a good person because he's a Christian and he visits kids in hospitals and a lot of other good stuff I've heard." That may be true. We all make mistakes. But other coaches have been castigated for just being the coach at a place where cheating took place. They may also be good people but they are tarred and feathered with the same brush as any other cheater. Perhaps people who live in glass Horseshoes should not throw stones.

It also makes me less sympathetic to the plight of the unpaid athletes who complain they can't make ends meet so they have to sell their memorabilia for extra money. If it were being used for basic necessities, I would be more sympathetic. But you rarely hear about a player getting that extra money for food or shelter or something like that. It's usually used to get things like shoes or jewelry or clothing or, in the case of tOSU, tattoos.

SeeinRed
05-31-2011, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure if your paying attention but it was and still is limited to 5 players.Those are the guys Tressel lied to the NCAA about.

I'm not sure why you believe I think this is over because I don't.What I do believe is that there will be many OSU haters that are very disappointed when the following events unfold.

1.NCAA makes their final ruling in August on the OSU violations

2.NCAA football regular season begins and OSU is allowed to participate and for some reason is still being considered the favorite to win the Big 10

3.OSU wins the Big 10

4.OSU participates in another BCS bowl game following the 2011 regular season

Now I admit that I may be wrong on one of these things but I still believe the odds are that I'll be right on all four.That's not really my point though.What I'm trying to say is that none of this stuff going on will be the death blow to OSU that many people wants it be.

Wow. No offense, but there are some very long odds against this happening. Very, Very long odds. Its tough for any program to recover from losing thier coach at this point in the process. Let alone any sanctions that are hovering over their head. I wouldn't bet against this in 3 years, but next year is a completely different story.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:19 PM
Talk about CYA mode.

I'm sure if this occurred in Michigan most of the POV's would just be a tad different.

Homerism lives on... even as the vest has left the building excuses are being built like a straw house in a strong and prevailing wind.

I hope that soap box doesn't tip over. It's got to be especially tough to peek in a conversation in progress and just merely cast your judgmental views on everyone without really caring to join in the the conversation itself. I imagine that's not easy.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure if your paying attention but it was and still is limited to 5 players.Those are the guys Tressel lied to the NCAA about.

I'm not sure why you believe I think this is over because I don't.What I do believe is that there will be many OSU haters that are very disappointed when the following events unfold.

1.NCAA makes their final ruling in August on the OSU violations

2.NCAA football regular season begins and OSU is allowed to participate and for some reason is still being considered the favorite to win the Big 10

3.OSU wins the Big 10

4.OSU participates in another BCS bowl game following the 2011 regular season

Now I admit that I may be wrong on one of these things but I still believe the odds are that I'll be right on all four.That's not really my point though.What I'm trying to say is that none of this stuff going on will be the death blow to OSU that many people wants it be.

ESPN is reporting that they are looking into issues involving as many as 40 players. I agree with you, if only 5 are involved OSU will be OK. I think you're naive to think it's limited to 5

westofyou
05-31-2011, 03:20 PM
I hope that soap box doesn't tip over.

Oh please, you've been dragging yours all over this thread.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:22 PM
So you're asking everyone to believe that, after the situation became known anyway, the university chose to throw the beloved Jim Tressel onto the spikes instead of whacking a few anonymous compliance people. And Tressel played along and ultimately resigned instead of declaring his innocence.

I suppose it's not THE most unlikely thing I've ever heard, crazy world that we live in, but it takes a few humongous leaps to get to "yeah, it could have happened that way."

No, I'm just staying open to the interpretation that not everything is 100% known for a fact right now, so I'm going to leave open the possibility that we're discussing a moot point. After all, if it's found that compliance did know, then Tressel is off the hook almost entirely, though it would be too little too late.

I'm treating things at face value that it wasn't the case, but I can tell you that OSU is reportedly in the middle of cleaning house in compliance and there'd be no reason to do that if they'd acted swiftly with the revelations of all this. So it makes one reasonably take notice.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:24 PM
Oh please, you've been dragging yours all over this thread.

Yeah but I'm contributing something to the conversation. You joined in progress with nothing to add. The extent of your addition was that you imagine things would be different if it were Michigan. That wasn't very extensive analysis in how it pertains to OSU or Tressel.

Chip R
05-31-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm treating things at face value that it wasn't the case, but I can tell you that OSU is reportedly in the middle of cleaning house in compliance and there'd be no reason to do that if they'd acted swiftly with the revelations of all this. So it makes one reasonably take notice.

I would certainly hope so.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 03:30 PM
Wow. No offense, but there are some very long odds against this happening. Very, Very long odds. Its tough for any program to recover from losing thier coach at this point in the process. Let alone any sanctions that are hovering over their head. I wouldn't bet against this in 3 years, but next year is a completely different story.

Why is it that I can't find any major publication that's not predicting OSU to win the Big 10 if the odds are so very long?

westofyou
05-31-2011, 03:32 PM
Yeah but I'm contributing something to the conversation. You joined in progress with nothing to add. The extent of your addition was that you imagine things would be different if it were Michigan. That wasn't very extensive analysis in how it pertains to OSU or Tressel.

You're right, my comment was on the FANS who are in denial.

As for the situation, it's pretty clear they are in a bad situation because of lies.

Some can't seem to come to that conclusion.

But then again I was unaware that you spoke for all OSU fans.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 03:34 PM
ESPN is reporting that they are looking into issues involving as many as 40 players. I agree with you, if only 5 are involved OSU will be OK. I think you're naive to think it's limited to 5

Have you seen anything indicating that the NCAA is looking into this matter beyond the 5 players we're talking about?

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:39 PM
You're right, my comment was on the FANS who are in denial.

As for the situation, it's pretty clear they are in a bad situation because of lies.

Some can't seem to come to that conclusion.

But then again I was unaware that you spoke for all OSU fans.

I thought the thread was about Tressel and OSU football. When did it become judging OSU fans in denial? And I don't speak for OSU fans. I'm speaking for me.

If you've got so much conviction about why they're in denial, why don't you bother to spend some time explaining yourself? It's certainly easy to pull the trigger of a gun that's being loaded and aimed for you.

Hit-and-run one liners, especially meant to simply deride others' opinions, are the death of good discussion. You're always talking about how this forum has degraded of quality discussions, right? So why not help elevate it?

Cedric
05-31-2011, 03:41 PM
Just another lesson about life. Be upfront and honest about things and usually it will all work out.

Some would say greed and having a big ego are all part of being a great leader/coach. He thought he could micromanage this situation like he did everything else. It destroyed Coach Tressel.

westofyou
05-31-2011, 03:44 PM
I thought the thread was about Tressel and OSU football. When did it become judging OSU fans in denial? And I don't speak for OSU fans. I'm speaking for me.

If you've got so much conviction about why they're in denial, why don't you bother to spend some time explaining yourself? It's certainly easy to pull the trigger of a gun that's being loaded and aimed for you.

Hit-and-run one liners, especially meant to simply deride others' opinions, are the death of good discussion. You're always talking about how this forum has degraded of quality discussions, right? So why not help elevate it?

Not everyone has to write a dissertation to get their point across.

Mine's pretty clear, you don't care for it, thats understood. Now go brow beat someone else.

How's that for quality?

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 03:46 PM
Have you seen anything indicating that the NCAA is looking into this matter beyond the 5 players we're talking about?

Funny you should bring this up:


The newspaper cited unnamed sources who said this is the most significant inquiry of Pryor. The NCAA and Ohio State are also probing more than 50 car purchases by Buckeyes players, their families and friends.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6608432


It's not clear specifically what caused the sudden departure, but pressure had been building in recent weeks. The Columbus Dispatch reported earlier this month that Doug Archie, head of compliance at Ohio State, is investigating at least 50 car sales to athletes and their relatives at two dealerships. Last week, former Tressel player Ray Small (FSY) told the school newspaper "everybody" on the football team broke NCAA rules and that he sold Big Ten championship rings.

On Friday, Rife was charged with money laundering and drug trafficking.

Late Monday, Sports Illustrated posted a story on its website saying the memorabilia-for-tattoos violations began as early as 2002, Tressel's second season, and involved at least 28 players. Those numbers include, beyond six players already suspended, an additional nine current players as well as nine former players whose alleged wrongdoing might fall within the NCAA four-year statute of limitations on violations.

One former Buckeye, defensive end Robert Rose, whose career ended in 2009, told SI that he had swapped memorabilia for tattoos and that "at least 20 others" on the team had done so as well.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2011-05-30-ohio-state-jim-tressel_N.htm

What makes you think out of all those players they won't uncover another violation? What makes you think the investigation will be complete and the NCAA will be ready to rule in August? I think you are being very overly optimistic

traderumor
05-31-2011, 03:46 PM
My reaction yesterday was indifference. My thoughts today are disgust at what college football/basketball has become. Story after story, even the OSU basketball program transgressions under O'Brien wasn't as big a kick in the gut as finding out that my school is full of corruption.

Guess the Tressel resignation was closure for me and now I am processing, and quite frankly, it must have had to hit home in a big way to pierce the darkness. Just like WOY quoted elsewhere, it is very sad for a school that forfeited a Rose Bowl trip for a principle is now just playing along like everyone else, and one who claimed to be principled was sucked right into the money making machine.

Sad, sad, sad.

SeeinRed
05-31-2011, 03:47 PM
Why is it that I can't find any major publication that's not predicting OSU to win the Big 10 if the odds are so very long?

Maybe because Tressel was still coach when those were released. Probably because no ruling has been made agains OSU. Most likely because early preseason ranking mean very little. You can pretty much take it to the bank that OSU will not be ranked as highly as they were in the very early preseason rankings.

RiverRat13
05-31-2011, 03:48 PM
If the rumors that TP has played his last game as a Buckeye are true, OSU isn't winning the Big 10 this year.

bucksfan2
05-31-2011, 03:50 PM
If the rumors that TP has played his last game as a Buckeye are true, OSU isn't winning the Big 10 this year.

I hope Pryor has played his last game at OSU. He will in fact be the first and only Buckeye that I will openly boo every time he steps on the field. IMO OSU will be in a much better place if the Tattoo 5 never return to the program.

Cedric
05-31-2011, 03:52 PM
My reaction yesterday was indifference. My thoughts today are disgust at what college football/basketball has become. Story after story, even the OSU basketball program transgressions under O'Brien wasn't as big a kick in the gut as finding out that my school is full of corruption.

Guess the Tressel resignation was closure for me and now I am processing, and quite frankly, it must have had to hit home in a big way to pierce the darkness. Just like WOY quoted elsewhere, it is very sad for a school that forfeited a Rose Bowl trip for a principle is now just playing along like everyone else, and one who claimed to be principled was sucked right into the money making machine.

Sad, sad, sad.

Woody had special boosters that would buy players. The charade of cfb being amateur was gone before I was even born.

Cedric
05-31-2011, 03:53 PM
I hope Pryor has played his last game at OSU. He will in fact be the first and only Buckeye that I will openly boo every time he steps on the field. IMO OSU will be in a much better place if the Tattoo 5 never return to the program.

Pryor and the tat 5 are no different than tons of others at TOSU and other schools. They shouldn't be viewed differently just because they got caught in a totally random drug investigation. MANY before them were just as culpable.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:54 PM
Not everyone has to write a dissertation to get their point across.

Mine's pretty clear, you don't care for it, thats understood. Now go brow beat someone else.

How's that for quality?

Dissertation? You haven't even given a quality thesis statement. You can jump in on threads and talk about how there's no quality discussion. So I can give my rebuttal that it's a given-and-take relationship. Snide snappy one liners certainly aren't advancing anything but ego. It takes only an average 10-year old to say someone's being a homer. That's not discussion that's junior high cafeteria talk.

westofyou
05-31-2011, 03:56 PM
Woody had special boosters that would buy players. The charade of cfb being amateur was gone before I was even born.

This is true, however the level of success has been changed from winning the Big Ten to winning the National Championship. That is the difference, it creates bigger cover-ups and larger infractions and thus longer and more severe penalties.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 03:57 PM
Woody had special boosters that would buy players. The charade of cfb being amateur was gone before I was even born.

Jason Whitlock had an article with this same basic premise today.


Are coaches really supposed to interrupt the moneymaking machine by monitoring how their players are paying for tattoos, weed and cars? If coaches took the time to hunt down what their players were really doing away from the field or court, the coaches would never have time to coach, feed the media hype machines and make sure players occasionally attend classes.

Tressel Product of Flawed System (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Former-Ohio-State-coach-Jim-Tressel-is-product-of-flawed-system-053111)

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 03:59 PM
You're right, my comment was on the FANS who are in denial.

As for the situation, it's pretty clear they are in a bad situation because of lies.

Some can't seem to come to that conclusion.

But then again I was unaware that you spoke for all OSU fans.

What is it that many of us OSU fans are in denial about?

I think most of us realize that this is a bad situation but we also know that the program isn't going to fold up shop anytime soon.I understand how someone that just read this new SI article to get caught up on all that's been going on at Ohio State would be inclined to believe that the Bucks are about to be given the death penalty.I'm just pointing out that that's not even close to the case.Trust me, it's not.There will be football in Columbus this fall and it will feature a top 25 team loaded with 5 star recruits.It will be fun and all of this will be over.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 04:01 PM
This is true, however the level of success has been changed from winning the Big Ten to winning the National Championship. That is the difference, it creates bigger cover-ups and larger infractions and thus longer and more severe penalties.

How is guys getting tattoos being covered up bigger then booster paying player to come play for money being covered up?

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 04:06 PM
Jason Whitlock had an article with this same basic premise today.



Tressel Product of Flawed System (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Former-Ohio-State-coach-Jim-Tressel-is-product-of-flawed-system-053111)

I apologize for not knowing where I heard this but amongst all this OSU talk today, someone said that OSU's compliance dept had to know the details of any new car bought by the players. They supposedly were allowed to pry into the finances of how it went down. I'd say in this day and age that's a necessary step

jredmo2
05-31-2011, 04:10 PM
YouTube - ‪"STUDENT ATHLETES" | South Park Season 15 Episode 5 | College Crack Baby Athletic Association‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVfiaVM0ap8)

South Park was a week ahead of the curve, it seems.

paintmered
05-31-2011, 04:14 PM
How is guys getting tattoos being covered up bigger then booster paying player to come play for money being covered up?

Given the newest spotlight on Pryor, and OSU citing student privacy to not provide detail on his relationship with his mentor, we may have the latter before it's all said and done.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 04:17 PM
I apologize for not knowing where I heard this but amongst all this OSU talk today, someone said that OSU's compliance dept had to know the details of any new car bought by the players. They supposedly were allowed to pry into the finances of how it went down. I'd say in this day and age that's a necessary step

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/07/osu-to-investigate-players-car-deals.html

This explains.

Roy Tucker
05-31-2011, 04:18 PM
What is it that many of us OSU fans are in denial about?

I think most of us realize that this is a bad situation but we also know that the program isn't going to fold up shop anytime soon.I understand how someone that just read this new SI article to get caught up on all that's been going on at Ohio State would be inclined to believe that the Bucks are about to be given the death penalty.I'm just pointing out that that's not even close to the case.Trust me, it's not.There will be football in Columbus this fall and it will feature a top 25 team loaded with 5 star recruits.It will be fun and all of this will be over.

I love OSU football as much as the next Buckeye, but I don't think all this is going away any time soon.

I'd say for the balance of the 2011 season, 1/2 the coverage is going to be about players on the field and 1/2 is going to be NCAA investigations, allegations, and other sordid flotsam and jetsam. Before all this broke loose late last season, Tressel was about as gold standard as they came for college coaches. For something to bring him down, it has to be huge.

I hate to say it, but fun isn't in the cards. This is going to go on for quite a while. As my dad used to say about my mom, "once she gets a bone in her mouth, she has to chew on it a while before she lets go".

Chip R
05-31-2011, 04:19 PM
Just another lesson about life. Be upfront and honest about things and usually it will all work out.

Some would say greed and having a big ego are all part of being a great leader/coach. He thought he could micromanage this situation like he did everything else. It destroyed Coach Tressel.

I think those are excellent points. I think the desire to win may have led him to cover this up and lie to the NCAA.

Caveat Emperor
05-31-2011, 04:20 PM
Jason Whitlock had an article with this same basic premise today. [/URL]

The "flawed" system...the evil "rule" that took Jim Tressel down was this:

When you know or suspect wrongdoing within your program, you must report it to the NCAA.

The Jim Tressel-Era wasn't brought down by his lack of knowledge, it was brought down by his failure to bring his knowledge to his superiors and to the NCAA. Any attempt to pain the man as a martyr because of things that were going on "behind his back" and claiming that he's being held to some impossible standard of knowledge and control is missing the point here entirely.

traderumor
05-31-2011, 04:21 PM
What is it that many of us OSU fans are in denial about?

I think most of us realize that this is a bad situation but we also know that the program isn't going to fold up shop anytime soon.I understand how someone that just read this new SI article to get caught up on all that's been going on at Ohio State would be inclined to believe that the Bucks are about to be given the death penalty.I'm just pointing out that that's not even close to the case.Trust me, it's not.There will be football in Columbus this fall and it will feature a top 25 team loaded with 5 star recruits.It will be fun and all of this will be over.Wow. I think it is this mindset that is at the core of this mess. My degree is devalued day by day. Maybe I really did get it from "the diploma factory on High St." as the snobbish young non-OSU alumni told me in my first days at the accounting firm.

Red Leader
05-31-2011, 04:22 PM
What is it that many of us OSU fans are in denial about?

I think most of us realize that this is a bad situation but we also know that the program isn't going to fold up shop anytime soon.I understand how someone that just read this new SI article to get caught up on all that's been going on at Ohio State would be inclined to believe that the Bucks are about to be given the death penalty.I'm just pointing out that that's not even close to the case.Trust me, it's not.There will be football in Columbus this fall and it will feature a top 25 team loaded with 5 star recruits.It will be fun and all of this will be over.

I agree with you about the future of OSU football...it will move forward without Tressel. I think its impossible to know how OSU will do this year. The investigations aren't even complete. I'd be willing to guess that Pryor will never play at OSU again. How many others will join him? We don't know if any will be at this point, but its possible. How much will these investigations and penalties hurt them short and long term? Not sure about that either. I certainly think this will affect recruiting and player retention in the short term. Appointing an interim lame duck coach for 1 year won't help matters either. Who wants to sign up to play at a school without knowing who your coach will be (or, until August at the earliest, what the penalties could be). I don't think OSU will be "fine" in the short term or the long term. I think it's going to be a very long road to get back to the success they've been used to the past 10 years. I think OSU is more than capable of overcoming those "obstacles", and being successful in the long term, but I don't think that it'll be easy by any means.

I think what makes me mad about all of this is reading OSU fans continually make excuses for Tressel...he was protecting his players, he lied to the media not the NCAA, he notified compliance and compliance threw him under the bus. BULLCRAP!! Jim Tressel's character has been exposed. He is a cheater and a liar. If this was a "weak" moment for him, or an out of character time for him, I'm sorry, but I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. The investigations turning up infractions back to 2002 as well as the mess he managed to avoid at Youngstown St. tell me otherwise. He is a liar and a cheater and always has been. I just can't believe that OSU fans continually make excuses for him. It makes me sick. I get that it's pretty painful to turn on the head football coach of your favorite team. This is a man that did a lot of good things for your program, your community and the university as a whole. But, this is also the same man that is now dragging your favorite university through the mud because of his actions. Aren't there any OSU fans that are pissed off about that? I would be if it was my team and my head coach. And please don't even tell me that Jim Tressel didn't know of any violations prior to receiving the third party emails. He knew and what he didn't know, he chose not to know.

paintmered
05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
OSU has survived the horrors of an 8-4 season before. They'll be fine. There's still plenty of kids in Ohio who grew up wanting to play in Ohio Stadium no matter who the coach is. And OSU still has more resources than any other program in the country.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 04:28 PM
The "flawed" system...the evil "rule" that took Jim Tressel down was this:

When you know or suspect wrongdoing within your program, you must report it to the NCAA.

The Jim Tressel-Era wasn't brought down by his lack of knowledge, it was brought down by his failure to bring his knowledge to his superiors and to the NCAA. Any attempt to pain the man as a martyr because of things that were going on "behind his back" and claiming that he's being held to some impossible standard of knowledge and control is missing the point here entirely.

That's his point though. Say he reports it, what is it really doing? It's not doing anything to stop the system from running amok. Boosters will just find more players to pay as the ones that accept money are suspended and ultimately replaced. Programs will simply bring in more players and the system will continue replicating itself. So what is Tressel going to accomplish by turning those players in?

I'm not saying he shouldn't turn them in, but Whitlock's point is that the problem is NOT the coaches turning players in or not, but rather that it's well beyond the scope of what a coach can control. The rule itself is not even realistic. It might make fans feel better when another program is caught cheating, but realistically it doesn't change anything. It's still going to happen both at the place that cheated and their own favorite institution that hasn't been caught.

As far as Tressel, it's still a fair argument that he wasn't trying to cover anything up. It's not an unfair stance that he thought the information would surface at some point, so perhaps he'd abide by the requested confidentiality and let the legal system play out. After all, whether you believe him or not, the emails do show that he was asked for an expectation of privacy in the matter, and it's not hard to see how that would be a predicament for some people that respect the legal system too. I believe you've worked in the legal system, as you've stated in the past if I'm not mistaken, so couldn't you see how it might be a reasonable concern he had? Whether that was his true intention or not, we'll probably never know. But that wasn't a decision you or I was faced with.

Caveat Emperor
05-31-2011, 04:32 PM
I just can't believe that OSU fans continually make excuses for him. It makes me sick. I get that it's pretty painful to turn on the head football coach of your favorite team. This is a man that did a lot of good things for your program, your community and the university as a whole. But, this is also the same man that is now dragging your favorite university through the mud because of his actions. Aren't there any OSU fans that are pissed off about that? I would be if it was my team and my head coach. And please don't even tell me that Jim Tressel didn't know of any violations prior to receiving the third party emails. He knew and what he didn't know, he chose not to know.

I've read this entire thread (and twitter, Buckeye message boards, etc.) and wondered if this wouldn't be the same type of reaction and response the Pete Rose story would have generated had the internet existed back then.

Tressel, in 24 hours, has turned into Ohio State's version of Pete.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 04:34 PM
I agree with you about the future of OSU football...it will move forward without Tressel. I think its impossible to know how OSU will do this year. The investigations aren't even complete. I'd be willing to guess that Pryor will never play at OSU again. How many others will join him? We don't know if any will be at this point, but its possible. How much will these investigations and penalties hurt them short and long term? Not sure about that either. I certainly think this will affect recruiting and player retention in the short term. Appointing an interim lame duck coach for 1 year won't help matters either. Who wants to sign up to play at a school without knowing who your coach will be (or, until August at the earliest, what the penalties could be). I don't think OSU will be "fine" in the short term or the long term. I think it's going to be a very long road to get back to the success they've been used to the past 10 years. I think OSU is more than capable of overcoming those "obstacles", and being successful in the long term, but I don't think that it'll be easy by any means.

I think what makes me mad about all of this is reading OSU fans continually make excuses for Tressel...he was protecting his players, he lied to the media not the NCAA, he notified compliance and compliance threw him under the bus. BULLCRAP!! Jim Tressel's character has been exposed. He is a cheater and a liar. If this was a "weak" moment for him, or an out of character time for him, I'm sorry, but I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. The investigations turning up infractions back to 2002 as well as the mess he managed to avoid at Youngstown St. tell me otherwise. He is a liar and a cheater and always has been. I just can't believe that OSU fans continually make excuses for him. It makes me sick. I get that it's pretty painful to turn on the head football coach of your favorite team. This is a man that did a lot of good things for your program, your community and the university as a whole. But, this is also the same man that is now dragging your favorite university through the mud because of his actions. Aren't there any OSU fans that are pissed off about that? I would be if it was my team and my head coach. And please don't even tell me that Jim Tressel didn't know of any violations prior to receiving the third party emails. He knew and what he didn't know, he chose not to know.

He didn't report his own players selling their own belongings.

In the grand scheme of things, do you really think that rises to the level of being turned on?

He committed an NCAA violation. I don't think anyone denies that. But goodness, when we really discuss the scope of what he did, people are acting like he flogged some 80-year old lady, stole her purse and used the money to start a child pornography ring.

At the end of the day he didn't report his players selling what was legally theirs. That's the extent of it. He frankly doesn't deserve the attention this is getting, to be honest. Does he deserve a punishment? Yes. Does Ohio State deserve a punishment? Yes again. Rules would be meaningless if there weren't consequences for breaking them. But I think reasonably if people actually examine what happened, there's no reason to turn on him.

What he did was tame.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 04:34 PM
OSU has survived the horrors of an 8-4 season before. They'll be fine. There's still plenty of kids in Ohio who grew up wanting to play in Ohio Stadium no matter who the coach is. And OSU still has more resources than any other program in the country.

Wow.I guess I could've just said this and then I wouldn't have been called a naive,snobbish,osu homer living in denial.

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 04:36 PM
This thread is hilarious. I get it. No one is really objective about OSU Football. It is a love it or hate it subject. I guess I just never realized it was to this degree.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 04:41 PM
This thread is hilarious. I get it. No one is really objective about OSU Football. It is a love it or hate it subject. I guess I just never realized it was to this degree.

I agree.I really wanted to start a new thread regarding a new era in OSU football beginning so this upcoming season could be discussed along with the future of the program but I figured there would be no way to keep that conversation and the conversation in this thread separate.

Red Leader
05-31-2011, 04:48 PM
He didn't report his own players selling their own belongings.

In the grand scheme of things, do you really think that rises to the level of being turned on?

At the end of the day he didn't report his players selling what was legally theirs. That's the extent of it. He frankly doesn't deserve the attention this is getting, to be honest. Does he deserve a punishment? Yes. Does Ohio State deserve a punishment? Yes again. Rules would be meaningless if there weren't consequences for breaking them. But I think reasonably if people actually examine what happened, there's no reason to turn on him.

What he did was tame.

If that's what you choose to believe, then that's fine, I can understand your position, I guess.

I believe that future investigations and reports will significantly add to the weight of this whole mess and will further reveal the wrong doings of Jim Tressel. The two things that have been confirmed and are truth right now are that 5 players sold their own merchandise for discounts on tattoos and Jim Tressel failed to report those violations to the NCAA when he knew about them. That's it. For now. There is an investigation going on about Terrelle Pryor and his car purchases (or lack thereof), along with as many as 40+ other players. Also keep in mind that there was a federal drug trafficing investigation very close to this situation, and former players throwing OSU under the bus saying this has always been allowed and tolerated by OSU and Jim Tressel during his whole time at OSU. I think when all is said and done, there will be more revealed than just "he didn't report his players selling what was legally theirs."

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 04:53 PM
Maybe because Tressel was still coach when those were released. Probably because no ruling has been made agains OSU. Most likely because early preseason ranking mean very little. You can pretty much take it to the bank that OSU will not be ranked as highly as they were in the very early preseason rankings.

Your assumption is probably right.Still, I follow the Big 10 very closely and I can promis that you won't find more talent on another team in league.It will be much harder this year then it has been but the Buckeyes still will be in the mix.There's five or six teams that are long shots to win the conference this year and the Buckeyes aren't one of them.

Redsfaithful
05-31-2011, 04:54 PM
There's still plenty of kids in Ohio who grew up wanting to play in Ohio Stadium no matter who the coach is. And OSU still has more resources than any other program in the country.

While it's not Florida, Ohio is deeper in talent than just about anywhere. I really don't see the school ever falling as far as Michigan has lately, for that reason. But it will be ugly this year, more than likely.

The entire system is flawed, and anyone getting worked up over kids getting discounts when they make millions of dollars for their university is just wrong. College degrees are borderline worthless so don't feed me the crap that they are getting the opportunity to get a degree, I don't care.

I agree with Thom Brennaman, Tressel could coach my two sons any time. I hope Tressel is viewed in as similarly a heroic fashion as Woody Hayes going forward in Columbus, and I think he will be.

The NCAA is a bizarre system that nobody would create from scratch, and it's all just ridiculous. I believed it with USC, I believed it with Cam Newton and Auburn, and I believe it now. People just love to get on a moral high horse about something, and NCAA sports provides them with that opportunity in spades.

nmculbreth
05-31-2011, 04:54 PM
I've read this entire thread (and twitter, Buckeye message boards, etc.) and wondered if this wouldn't be the same type of reaction and response the Pete Rose story would have generated had the internet existed back then.

Tressel, in 24 hours, has turned into Ohio State's version of Pete.

I think the response would be pretty much the same.

The fact of the matter is that fans have a tough time reacting rationally when it comes to the bad behavior of their favorite teams / players / coaches. They'll find ways to marginalize the offense or find a way to justify the behavior in order to reconcile the situation with their preconceived notions rather than coming to the painful conclusion that their favorite team / player / coach was in the wrong.

This isn't exclusive to the OSU fan base, if the same thing would have happened to another program I would expect pretty much the exact same response... though I have a funny feeling that some of the OSU apologists wouldn't be quite so understanding had this all gone down in Ann Arbor.

WVRed
05-31-2011, 04:59 PM
I think what makes me mad about all of this is reading OSU fans continually make excuses for Tressel...he was protecting his players, he lied to the media not the NCAA, he notified compliance and compliance threw him under the bus. BULLCRAP!! Jim Tressel's character has been exposed. He is a cheater and a liar. If this was a "weak" moment for him, or an out of character time for him, I'm sorry, but I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. The investigations turning up infractions back to 2002 as well as the mess he managed to avoid at Youngstown St. tell me otherwise. He is a liar and a cheater and always has been. I just can't believe that OSU fans continually make excuses for him. It makes me sick. I get that it's pretty painful to turn on the head football coach of your favorite team. This is a man that did a lot of good things for your program, your community and the university as a whole. But, this is also the same man that is now dragging your favorite university through the mud because of his actions. Aren't there any OSU fans that are pissed off about that? I would be if it was my team and my head coach. And please don't even tell me that Jim Tressel didn't know of any violations prior to receiving the third party emails. He knew and what he didn't know, he chose not to know.

I don't think I could have put it any better if I tried.

What turned me against Tressel was how he told the Tat 5 that they were not allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl unless they all decided to "own up to their mistakes" and return the following season instead of going pro. To me it's the equivalent of a family who has a son or daughter (the 5) who has done something to "shame the family". The family is devastated and the father (Tressel) lashes out, all the meanwhile he is cheating with the maid. I've said before if I was one of the players and had one foot out the door before given the speech about coming back and owning up to the responsibility, I would have probably punched him.

I'm sorry, but what makes Tressel even more of a target is using the choir boy image and promoting Christian self-help books. The Bible even says to "Submit yourselves unto authority" and Tressel clearly did not do that with the NCAA.

I am a Kentucky fan and we have had our shake with the NCAA during the Eddie Sutton fiasco and Hal Mumme in football. We also have a head coach in John Calipari who has had two final four appearances vacated at other schools. If Cal is ever caught at Kentucky for something along the lines of what Tressel is doing, I don't have the same sympathy. I won't defend Cal the way some Buckeye fans have placed Tressel on a pedestal.

Roy Tucker
05-31-2011, 05:00 PM
That's his point though. Say he reports it, what is it really doing? It's not doing anything to stop the system from running amok. Boosters will just find more players to pay as the ones that accept money are suspended and ultimately replaced. Programs will simply bring in more players and the system will continue replicating itself. So what is Tressel going to accomplish by turning those players in?

I'm not saying he shouldn't turn them in, but Whitlock's point is that the problem is NOT the coaches turning players in or not, but rather that it's well beyond the scope of what a coach can control. The rule itself is not even realistic. It might make fans feel better when another program is caught cheating, but realistically it doesn't change anything. It's still going to happen both at the place that cheated and their own favorite institution that hasn't been caught.

As far as Tressel, it's still a fair argument that he wasn't trying to cover anything up. It's not an unfair stance that he thought the information would surface at some point, so perhaps he'd abide by the requested confidentiality and let the legal system play out. After all, whether you believe him or not, the emails do show that he was asked for an expectation of privacy in the matter, and it's not hard to see how that would be a predicament for some people that respect the legal system too. I believe you've worked in the legal system, as you've stated in the past if I'm not mistaken, so couldn't you see how it might be a reasonable concern he had? Whether that was his true intention or not, we'll probably never know. But that wasn't a decision you or I was faced with.



Perhaps I'm just an idiot and thick-skulled, but this all seems like a lot of hair-splitting and equivocating.

I'd sure as heck like for Tressel to come out of this as being right all along and to be vindicated, but I'm really not going to hold my breath for that to happen.

hebroncougar
05-31-2011, 05:03 PM
I am as guilty as the next guy, but I'm learning not to rejoice over someone else's misfortune because I might be next. And that includes when someone has held themselves out as being a paragon of virtue or of vice.

I've also learned that the more one rejoices, the more likely it is that they might be next.

This is all comical to me. I realized sometime last year what a joke college athletics has become. I idolized Pitino growing up, and realized what a sham he was (with his books and such) after what he went though last year. I don't even root for a team, but what I hope happens is it all gets cleaned up. I know it won't, it's a sad state of affairs.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 05:04 PM
If that's what you choose to believe, then that's fine, I can understand your position, I guess.

I believe that future investigations and reports will significantly add to the weight of this whole mess and will further reveal the wrong doings of Jim Tressel. The two things that have been confirmed and are truth right now are that 5 players sold their own merchandise for discounts on tattoos and Jim Tressel failed to report those violations to the NCAA when he knew about them. That's it. For now. There is an investigation going on about Terrelle Pryor and his car purchases (or lack thereof), along with as many as 40+ other players. Also keep in mind that there was a federal drug trafficing investigation very close to this situation, and former players throwing OSU under the bus saying this has always been allowed and tolerated by OSU and Jim Tressel during his whole time at OSU. I think when all is said and done, there will be more revealed than just "he didn't report his players selling what was legally theirs."

My position is, and actually has always been, that players have been getting benefits, and sometimes money, for years and years at Ohio State (and everywhere athletics mean a lick for that matter). So there will always be "more" ready to come out at Ohio State from here until the end of time. And you know what? Make no mistake I think Jim Tressel knew, at least indirectly, about a lot more than we'll ever hear of.

But that doesn't change my opinion one iota as my contention is that a coach, in the grand scheme of things, is really powerless to stop it. If a coach reported anything and everything he heard might be happening in the slightest, there'd be no players (or coaches) left to compete. I don't think the solution to the problem is coaches turning in a report everytime he hears a player may have been the recipient of a benefit. I don't think it's practical nor does it really do anything to change the system.

That said, I can say with complete confidence no matter how much digging is done, it's very unlikely you'll see Tressel's hands dirty performing these kinds of acts or being complicit in them. His players... sure. As with any 18-22 year old, they're not going to turn down all the forbidden fruits that are served their direction when they're high-profile athletes. Sad, but true.

That a Pulitzer Prize winner spent a few months digging around, hoping to find dirt on Tressel, and the best he could come up with is folklore about a raffle in 1983 and allegations from a convicted felon regarding trading belongings for tats & weed tells me Tressel didn't have a lot to directly implicate him about.

If I ever hear of something that directly ties him to something serious, as in he was endorsing, engineering or performing it, my reverence for the person I've gotten to know will change. But I've been privileged to spend time inside the program, and that's not the guy I've known. Even his colleagues and rivals have said the same. Rich Rodriguez said as much.

This is what Rodriguez said in March about Tressel on Colin Cowherd:


"If you run a program at Ohio State or at Michigan or something like that, so much of what you do is public," Rodriguez said. "There's not all this crazy cheating and things like that going on that people think. There are some guys out there that bend the rules a little bit or they get around the rules and try to get a competitive advantage. I don't think that was the case in this at all. There were five guys who sold items who shouldn't have sold it. And they were wrong for doing it. Did that give Ohio State a competitive advantage? I don't think so."

"There's coaches out there that are trying to get a competitive advantage the wrong way, a handful, and they seem to get away with it. And there are other coaches that are really trying as hard as they can, doing everything in good faith, and they seem to get nailed. I think that's the thing that frustrates coaches, like, 'Geez look at what these guys did, and they're winning and they did all that.'

"How do we fix that?"

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/03/michigan-rich-rodriguez-support-ohio-state-jim-tressel/1

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 05:09 PM
I think the response would be pretty much the same.

The fact of the matter is that fans have a tough time reacting rationally when it comes to the bad behavior of their favorite teams / players / coaches. They'll find ways to marginalize the offense or find a way to justify the behavior in order to reconcile the situation with their preconceived notions rather than coming to the painful conclusion that their favorite team / player / coach was in the wrong.

This isn't exclusive to the OSU fan base, if the same thing would have happened to another program I would expect pretty much the exact same response... though I have a funny feeling that some of the OSU apologists wouldn't be quite so understanding had this all gone down in Ann Arbor.

Your probably right but it works both ways.There are plenty of people running with anything they see printed acting as if they're talking about proven violations and going on to use that information in an argument about how dirty Ohio State is just because they hate Buckeyes.How much less rational are those people?Personally I don't know why they take the time.I know I don't get into other schools problems when they have issues.

SeeinRed
05-31-2011, 05:10 PM
Your assumption is probably right.Still, I follow the Big 10 very closely and I can promis that you won't find more talent on another team in league.It will be much harder this year then it has been but the Buckeyes still will be in the mix.There's five or six teams that are long shots to win the conference this year and the Buckeyes aren't one of them.


You are correct about the talent, however they face a very daunting task replacing Tressel, as well as possibly Pryor. There will also be the distraction of the investigation and possible sanctions. Thats assuming they aren't handed a bowl ban which is still very much on the table. OSU will be fine in the long run, however for the short term they have a very difficult road ahead. I just can't see a whole lot of people picking them to win the Big Ten next year. For the sake of OSU fans, I hope you are right. You'll find few outside of the OSU fanbase who agree with you, however.

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 05:14 PM
You are correct about the talent, however they face a very daunting task replacing Tressel, as well as possibly Pryor. There will also be the distraction of the investigation and possible sanctions. Thats assuming they aren't handed a bowl ban which is still very much on the table. OSU will be fine in the long run, however for the short term they have a very difficult road ahead. I just can't see a whole lot of people picking them to win the Big Ten next year. For the sake of OSU fans, I hope you are right. You'll find few outside of the OSU fanbase who agree with you, however.

Maybe it won't be easy to find someone picking the Buckeyes as their favorite but you'd be hard pressed to find any expert excluding them from the conversation.

Red Leader
05-31-2011, 05:16 PM
The fact of the matter is that fans have a tough time reacting rationally when it comes to the bad behavior of their favorite teams / players / coaches. They'll find ways to marginalize the offense or find a way to justify the behavior in order to reconcile the situation with their preconceived notions rather than coming to the painful conclusion that their favorite team / player / coach was in the wrong.

This isn't exclusive to the OSU fan base, if the same thing would have happened to another program I would expect pretty much the exact same response... though I have a funny feeling that some of the OSU apologists wouldn't be quite so understanding had this all gone down in Ann Arbor.

I agree with you. I also think that it's common for fans of rival teams (UM, Florida, USC, et al in this case) to overreact to this kind of news and dance and sing and tell the whole world that OSU is going to get blasted back to the Stone Age with sanctions and penalties. I think this causes OSU fans to defend their team even more than they normally would.

I am not a fan of OSU and I intentionally tried not to be a hater when posting my responses. I hope that shows in my posts. Its funny, I hear all the time around January that I should root for Ohio St, Michigan St, Penn St, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc in the bowl games to show support for the Big 10. I just can't do it and have never understood that logic. Those teams are my enemies. I don't like them. I won't root for them under any circumstances. When this situation with OSU came up though, I have some compassion for OSU. I know there are other programs out there that aren't run as clean as they are reporting to. My team likely included. This whole NCAA investigation not only hurts OSU, but it hurts the Big 10 as a whole in my opinion. Its definitely not something to celebrate...no matter who you root for.

jojo
05-31-2011, 05:17 PM
The "flawed" system...the evil "rule" that took Jim Tressel down was this:

When you know or suspect wrongdoing within your program, you must report it to the NCAA.

The Jim Tressel-Era wasn't brought down by his lack of knowledge, it was brought down by his failure to bring his knowledge to his superiors and to the NCAA. Any attempt to pain the man as a martyr because of things that were going on "behind his back" and claiming that he's being held to some impossible standard of knowledge and control is missing the point here entirely.

Exactly. I'd only add that if you write several books on integrity, this point isn't even one that such an author would have to pause to consider....

Puffy
05-31-2011, 05:24 PM
I think the response would be pretty much the same.

The fact of the matter is that fans have a tough time reacting rationally when it comes to the bad behavior of their favorite teams / players / coaches. They'll find ways to marginalize the offense or find a way to justify the behavior in order to reconcile the situation with their preconceived notions rather than coming to the painful conclusion that their favorite team / player / coach was in the wrong.

This isn't exclusive to the OSU fan base, if the same thing would have happened to another program I would expect pretty much the exact same response... though I have a funny feeling that some of the OSU apologists wouldn't be quite so understanding had this all gone down in Ann Arbor.

I disagree. I mean I am a huge NY Giants fan and LT was my favorite player. And now we have had the drug issues, the alleged rape, the strippers. And I logically concluded he didn't do any of it.

Greatest. Linebacker. Evah.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 05:33 PM
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/07/osu-to-investigate-players-car-deals.html

This explains.

As an OSU fan I wouldn't want my future to come down to Terrelle Pryor:


Pryor, the highest profile recruit of Tressel's 25-year coaching career, is one of five Buckeyes who have already been suspended for the first five games of the 2011 season for taking money and tattoos from local tattoo-parlor owner Edward Rife, who pleaded guilty last week to federal drug trafficking and money-laundering charges.

Ohio State confirmed that the NCAA continues to look into potential violations, including Pryor's cars.

"I can tell you that obviously you have an open investigation,'' Ohio State spokesman Jim Lynch said Tuesday. "The university and the NCAA are working jointly to review any new allegations that come to light. We're going to continue to do so until their investigation wraps up.''

The Columbus Dispatch has reported that the NCAA and Ohio State are investigating more than 50 vehicle purchases by Buckeyes players, family members and friends over the past. Sports Illustrated, citing a source close to the investigation, reported that Pryor, who will be a senior this fall, might have driven as many as eight cars in his three years in Columbus.

Even though Pryor's vehicles have been a focal point of the investigation for weeks, that doesn't mean he has been riding a bicycle around the city.

Pryor drove up to a players-only team meeting on Monday night in a coal-black Nissan 350Z sports car with 30-day plates. The automotive information site Edmunds.com lists a recent, used 350Z, which it calls "a proper sports car for the everyman,'' as costing between $16,000 and $27,000.

Pryor was stopped three times for traffic violations over the past three years, each time driving cars that were owned by Kniffin or a Columbus used-car dealership where he worked, the Dispatch has reported. Kniffin, owner Jeff Mauk of Jack Maxton Chevrolet, Inc., and Jason Gross of Auto Direct Columbus, Inc., each provided affidavits to Ohio State officials earlier this month.

They said that all transactions associated with an Ohio State athlete were cleared through Ohio State's NCAA compliance department.

"If the OSU Compliance Department approved the transaction terms, the transaction would be finalized and the vehicle would be delivered to the customer,'' Mauk said in his statement.

Even though the dealerships have dozens of signed jerseys on display in their showrooms, Kniffin and the dealerships said that was not part of any deal.

"OSU student-athletes weren't given any enticements to buy the car at my dealership,'' Kniffin said. "At no time did memorabilia come into play when it came time to negotiate a deal or buy a car. I was never given any memorabilia from a student-athlete in exchange for a car deal.''

Late on Monday night, Sports Illustrated reported that the memorabilia-for-tattoos violations actually stretched back to 2002, Tressel's second season at Ohio State, and involved at least 28 players - 22 more than the university has acknowledged. Those numbers include, beyond the six suspended players, an additional nine current players as well as other former players whose alleged wrongdoing might fall within the NCAA's four-year statute of limitations on violations.

After the article's release, athletic director Gene Smith issued a statement.

"During the course of an investigation, the university and the NCAA work jointly to review any new allegations that come to light, and will continue to do so until the conclusion of the investigation,'' he said. "You should rest assured that these new allegations will be evaluated in exactly this manner. Beyond that, we will have no further comment.''



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/wires/05/31/2060.ap.fbc.ohio.st.pryor.s.cars.2nd.ld.writethru. 1234/index.html#ixzz1Nxp88EDe

Do you really think all those deals for the 8 cars he's had were on the up and up? Even if they were, how does a college kid get money for that many cars? See how these investigations grow and evolve?

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 05:40 PM
Investigators are also looking into Pryor's relationship with a businessman in his hometown, Ted Sarniak, who has served as his mentor. Sarniak was a prominent player in the recruitment of Pryor, considered the nation's No. 1 quarterback recruit when he graduated.

Ohio State has refused an Associated Press records request seeking communications between Ohio State officials, coaches, Tressel and Sarniak, citing a federal privacy law that shields students.
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-ap-terrelle-pryor-inquiry-cars-benefits-txt,0,2251774.story

Captain Hook
05-31-2011, 05:46 PM
Do you really think all those deals for the 8 cars he's had were on the up and up? Even if they were, how does a college kid get money for that many cars? See how these investigations grow and evolve?


Yeah, I've been a fan of a major sports program for a long time.They come,they evolve and then they go away once the season starts.While the explanation probably won't be a perfectly good one, there's a good chance it will be good enough.Don't act as if this is the first time something like this has come up in college football.

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 05:47 PM
As an OSU fan I wouldn't want my future to come down to Terrelle Pryor:



Do you really think all those deals for the 8 cars he's had were on the up and up? Even if they were, how does a college kid get money for that many cars? See how these investigations grow and evolve?

I don't like the Pryor car part of all of this and will fully admit that I believe there is probably something shady going on. Now in the interest of fairness he has not bought 8 cars while he has been at OSU. The car he was driving last night from the reports I have read belonged to his mother. According to the car salesman he has let Pryor drive three loaner cars for 3 days or less and he has not bought any of them. That guy (Kniffen I believe his name is) said that Pryor has always bought his cars from someone in PA near his childhood home and he couldn't get him a better deal than what that guy was offering. The one car deal that they did try to make was turned down by OSU compliance because they said it was to high profile of a car. Now if that is true I say good for OSU, but still a lot of questions around Pryor.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 06:33 PM
I don't like the Pryor car part of all of this and will fully admit that I believe there is probably something shady going on. Now in the interest of fairness he has not bought 8 cars while he has been at OSU. The car he was driving last night from the reports I have read belonged to his mother. According to the car salesman he has let Pryor drive three loaner cars for 3 days or less and he has not bought any of them. That guy (Kniffen I believe his name is) said that Pryor has always bought his cars from someone in PA near his childhood home and he couldn't get him a better deal than what that guy was offering. The one car deal that they did try to make was turned down by OSU compliance because they said it was to high profile of a car. Now if that is true I say good for OSU, but still a lot of questions around Pryor.

Reports are that he's had 8 cars in three yrs. Maybe Pryor did buy his cars in Pa but apparently his mother and brother didn't:


Kniffin has reportedly sold cars to Pryor's mother and brother and to numerous other Ohio State athletes and/or their relatives. well as dozens of other Buckeye athletes or their family members. Kniffin has claimed that the vehicles were sold to the athletes and family members at legitimate prices; that the cars weren't sold at reduced prices as favors to the buyers.
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/05/post_177.html

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 06:45 PM
Reports are that he's had 8 cars in three yrs. Maybe Pryor did buy his cars in Pa but apparently his mother and brother didn't:


http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/05/post_177.html

I've seen numbers all over the map, but I've seen he has had many loaner cars, but has actually only bought one or two.

We'll see what comes out of this. What is out there right now isn't going to hurt Pryor or OSU, but there seems to be a lot of smoke.

BuckeyeRed27
05-31-2011, 08:49 PM
Here is a interesting interview with Ray Issac from Dead Spin. I didn't link the article directly since that site can have some interestin ads and articles from time to time, but if that breaks some rules I certainly can.

Sports Radio Interviews—Every morning, the fine folks at Sports Radio Interviews sift through the a.m. drive-time chatter to bring you the best interviews with coaches, players, and personalities across the sports landscape. Today: Youngstown State's finest, Ray Isaac, tries out some media criticism.

Ray Isaac joined 790 The Zone in Atlanta with Mayhem in the AM to discuss his displeasure with the SI article, his relationship with Tressel at Youngstown State, why his case has always been linked to Tressel's departure from there, why he's most upset with Sports Illustrated and why he believes Tressel would lie to the NCAA.

On his displeasure with Sports Illustrated's article released Monday night:
"The article is a big lie. I think that I've only done two interviews since 1991, since all the allegations came out. … I did both of those interviews in 2003 and I was displeased with how those articles came out. So I have not done another interview since then. I'm very displeased with the article. The article is chewed up. If you look at the paragraph that goes into what I was allegedly to have said, it is poorly written. It doesn't give any facts or clarity."

What would he like to get on the record now, then, about his relationship with Jim Tressel?:
"Number one, I'm totally responsible for what I did at Youngstown State University. Every year, from the time I was on campus, from '88 to '91, Tressel had compliance seminars - not to deal with bookies, not to deal with drugs, not to deal with not buying or selling anything. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I met [booster] Mickey Monus. It is implied that on the first meeting that I had with Mickey Monus that I received $150. That is the biggest lie ever told. … Jim Tressel never ever knew anything about our dealings. I kept it secret. To say Coach Tressel knew about this car, or knew about this money, listen, the only way that anyone knew about the money I received from Youngstown State University was Mickey Monus got indicted on $1.1 million worth of embezzlement and fraud. In documents and public record, they found checks that were written to me. … That's the only way that this situation came to light. … Other than that, no one in the history of the world would have known the Mickey Monus paid me a dime."

Then why has Tressel's departure from Youngstown always been associated with the infractions surrounding the Ray case?:
"I think that Jim Tressel was the coach at Youngstown State University and Mickey Monus got in trouble and then all of the sudden one of his star athletes comes out and his name is associated with that. When you look at these Youngstown State investigations, the first paragraph reads that Ray Isaac states that Jim Tressel or no other official at Youngstown State knew about the cars 0r the money."

What is he most upset with about the SI article?:
"Jim Tressel is as good a man as you'll ever meet. It's almost to the point where it's hokey; you would think he is phony. Jim Tressel is like the person you want to be when you grow up. … He's always treated me like a son, always got on my case. I'm just appalled by the lack of facts in the article concerning me and him. … It almost looked like he read 50 articles of the Jim Tressel/Ray Isaac situation and mixed them all together and then wrote a paragraph because he could not get any words out of my mouth."

Why does he think Jim Tressel would lie to the NCAA about emails?:
"The story has not been told. I think whatever he did, I don't know what he did, I just know he's going to protect and he has tried to protect his players and it just snowballed. It's like something that you just say, ‘Oh my God, are you serious?' He's a manager, man. He's a manager or his coaching staff, he's a manager of people, and it can get out of hand. Before you know it, you don't have grips with what's going on. … I'm the biggest advocate of Jim Tressel."

jojo
05-31-2011, 09:29 PM
As an OSU fan I wouldn't want my future to come down to Terrelle Pryor:



Do you really think all those deals for the 8 cars he's had were on the up and up? Even if they were, how does a college kid get money for that many cars? See how these investigations grow and evolve?

Universities and the NCAA work jointly together during investigations? Huh, no kidding?

Brutus
05-31-2011, 09:37 PM
Universities and the NCAA work jointly together during investigations? Huh, no kidding?

That doesn't mean what you're trying to implicate it to mean...

MWM
05-31-2011, 10:04 PM
Talk about CYA mode.

I'm sure if this occurred in Michigan most of the POV's would just be a tad different.

Homerism lives on... even as the vest has left the building excuses are being built like a straw house in a strong and prevailing wind.

Come on woy, and if it occurred at Michigan, the Michigan fanbase would be in CYA mode just as much. It cuts both ways.

jojo
05-31-2011, 10:10 PM
That doesn't mean what you're trying to implicate it to mean...

I'm implicating it to mean that the university and the NCAA work jointly on allegations as Ohio State spokesman Jim Lynch clearly stated.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm implicating it to mean that the university and the NCAA work jointly on allegations as Ohio State spokesman Jim Lynch clearly stated.

It seems somewhat apparent you're trying to draw a conclusion that therefore the NCAA must give a heads up on what the penalties will be, as stemming from our debate about this during the Auburn discussion, because of it being stated they're working jointly on an investigation.

jojo
05-31-2011, 10:32 PM
It seems somewhat apparent you're trying to draw a conclusion that therefore the NCAA must give a heads up on what the penalties will be, as stemming from our debate about this during the Auburn discussion, because of it being stated they're working jointly on an investigation.

It's blatantly apparent that this is a thread about OSU and a spokesman for OSU stated the university is working jointly with the NCAA on allegations.

remdog
05-31-2011, 10:32 PM
Gordon Gee should be shown the door tomorrow.

Rem

paintmered
05-31-2011, 10:35 PM
Maybe Tressel can fire him now.

Brutus
05-31-2011, 10:37 PM
It's blatantly apparent that this is a thread about OSU and a spokesman for OSU stated the university is working jointly with the NCAA on allegations.

That doesn't change what you were trying to get at...

jojo
05-31-2011, 10:43 PM
That doesn't change what you were trying to get at...

Talking about me and what you suppose I'm getting at adds absolutely nothing to this OSU thread so please take further comments private.

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:56 PM
Universities and the NCAA work jointly together during investigations? Huh, no kidding?

Who said they were working jointly together?

Sea Ray
05-31-2011, 10:57 PM
Come on woy, and if it occurred at Michigan, the Michigan fanbase would be in CYA mode just as much. It cuts both ways.

I think UM fans knew the RR investigation was a problem.

WVRed
05-31-2011, 11:03 PM
Gordon Gee should be shown the door tomorrow.

Rem

Gordon Gee may be the ONLY reason Ohio State gets a lighter sentence.

I could be wrong on this, but the current NCAA President Mark Emmert served under Gee at some point in time at a former job. Gee has a connection that could possibly spare OSU more penalties. I guess you could say it's about WHO you know.