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View Full Version : Time for Volquez to go



SidneySlicker
05-11-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't care how good his stuff is. He doesn't get it and never will. Trade him or DFA him. I could care less what they get for him at this point, I just want the roster spot. The Reds have many other pitchers that despite having inferior stuff will give the Reds a better chance to win.

brm7675
05-11-2011, 03:34 PM
I don't care how good his stuff is. He doesn't get it and never will. Trade him or DFA him. I could care less what they get for him at this point, I just want the roster spot. The Reds have many other pitchers that despite having inferior stuff will give the Reds a better chance to win.

A) right now is trade value is to low
B) You don't DFA a major league pitcher with the talent he has.

The problem here is like always the Reds medical staff screwed this kid up and then Reds mag't rushed him back. He should have been in AAA all of last year working on coming back from the TJ surgery. This season he should have started off there and been reviewed at the end of the first month. right now he should be sent down to work on things and put Leake into the lineup.

Krawhitham
05-11-2011, 04:03 PM
A) right now is trade value is to low
B) You don't DFA a major league pitcher with the talent he has.

The problem here is like always the Reds medical staff screwed this kid up and then Reds mag't rushed him back. He should have been in AAA all of last year working on coming back from the TJ surgery. This season he should have started off there and been reviewed at the end of the first month. right now he should be sent down to work on things and put Leake into the lineup.

I believe he has already used all 3 options years

he was in the majors in 2005
Sent down in 2006, 2007, 2010

So sending him down is the same as releasing him, someone will claim him off waivers

SidneySlicker
05-11-2011, 04:06 PM
A) right now is trade value is to low
B) You don't DFA a major league pitcher with the talent he has.

The problem here is like always the Reds medical staff screwed this kid up and then Reds mag't rushed him back. He should have been in AAA all of last year working on coming back from the TJ surgery. This season he should have started off there and been reviewed at the end of the first month. right now he should be sent down to work on things and put Leake into the lineup.

A. My opinion is that of he is what he is, which means his value is not going to improve.
B. No you shouldn't, which is why I would trade him for whatever I could get.

Jefferson24
05-11-2011, 04:09 PM
He is a 5th starter at this point. Just keep running him out there until it clicks or until he completely pitches himself out of the rotation.

brm7675
05-11-2011, 04:39 PM
I believe he has already used all 3 options years

he was in the majors in 2005
Sent down in 2006, 2007, 2010

So sending him down is the same as releasing him, someone will claim him off waivers

then DL him and let him rehab, but to continue to toss him out there every 5th day on the major league team when you have better options is just bad baseball.

Vottomatic
05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm sick of Volquez too.

Listening to Marty rant about him is hilarious.

TheBigLebowski
05-11-2011, 05:26 PM
I don't think the issue with Volquez is that he was rushed back. I think it's his delivery and always has been. It's too busy. The Reds fell in love with his live arm and overpaid for him. The Reds were like the desperate girl who takes a chance on a horrible guy because he's good looking and she thinks she can change him. No question we got fleeced on that deal, but at least we know Hamilton is about as durable as a two-ply square of toilet paper.

Hondo
05-11-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't think the issue with Volquez is that he was rushed back. I think it's his delivery and always has been. It's too busy. The Reds fell in love with his live arm and overpaid for him. The Reds were like the desperate girl who takes a chance on a horrible guy because he's good looking and she thinks she can change him. No question we got fleeced on that deal, but at least we know Hamilton is about as durable as a two-ply square of toilet paper.

Yeah but I would of rather had Hamilton in left then Gomes last year.

Kevin1476
05-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Nothing has changed since when he got the nod to be the opening starter in the playoffs against the Phils!

Hondo
05-11-2011, 05:42 PM
I say the team keeps VolTRON and tries him as Closer Next year when Cordero signs elsewhere...

He's got the stuff to Close and would be an affordable Closer.

brm7675
05-11-2011, 05:47 PM
I say the team keeps VolTRON and tries him as Closer Next year when Cordero signs elsewhere...

He's got the stuff to Close and would be an affordable Closer.

Never happen, he is viewed as ACE material, and that won't change. Your closer will come from either Bray, Massett or Logan...

Hondo
05-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Never happen, he is viewed as ACE material, and that won't change. Your closer will come from either Bray, Massett or Logan...

Oh, I am sooo sorry brm7675 - I knew I should have asked your opinion first before I gave my own.

mlh1981
05-11-2011, 06:21 PM
I'm sick of Volquez too.

Listening to Marty rant about him is hilarious.

What did Marty say today?

Natty Redlocks
05-11-2011, 06:27 PM
Wow the panic here is hilarious. Y'all are gonna feel really silly when he has a great second half.

KYRedLeg
05-11-2011, 06:31 PM
Watching him run out there every fifth day and put the team in a hole, for 6 weeks, doesn't seem like knee-jerk panic to me.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

brm7675
05-11-2011, 06:31 PM
Wow the panic here is hilarious. Y'all are gonna feel really silly when he has a great second half.

no panic, just simple ability to see that right now HE SUCKS. He can't go more then 5-6 innings at best, his pitch count is horible and he can't throw strikes. We have better choices right now, so why not go with the better choices?

DocRed
05-11-2011, 06:45 PM
Trading him now when his stock is low would be a very bad idea. However, a stint in the pen ala Zambrano might do him a world of good. I say move Leake back into the rotation for a couple weeks.

brm7675
05-11-2011, 07:43 PM
Trading him now when his stock is low would be a very bad idea. However, a stint in the pen ala Zambrano might do him a world of good. I say move Leake back into the rotation for a couple weeks.

The pen would not be wise, he needs to get work in as a starter, he needs to go on the DL and go to the minors and do some work.

Hondo
05-11-2011, 07:57 PM
The pen would not be wise, he needs to get work in as a starter, he needs to go on the DL and go to the minors and do some work.

Its not structural obviously Dr. Kremchek.

He doesn't have command. It's the Walks.

Kinda like... "It's the economy... Stupid."

(Insert walks for economy)

Hillsdale87
05-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Volquez is always going to be wild. But this season has been ridiculous. I wonder how much of an impact his late arrival to spring training is having on his command issues. He never really got to warm up, was not comfortable in spring training, and has clearly been a mess with the Reds. I agree that he should stay in the rotation, as maddening as it is. He's been pretty rough, but for a 5th starter he's not horrible. I like Lecure in the bullpen, and I want Leake to go to AAA. He needs to get some confidence back and work on his pitching some more.

SidneySlicker
05-11-2011, 09:48 PM
I say the team keeps VolTRON and tries him as Closer Next year when Cordero signs elsewhere...

He's got the stuff to Close and would be an affordable Closer.

With all due respect that is the worst thing they could do. Volquez would be a train wreck in my opinion. In his first 16 pitches thrown here are his stats BA. 429 OBP .538 Slg .893 OPS 1.431

Those stats are freaking incredible, and not in a good way. I don't care what kind of stuff the guy has, he doesn't belong on the mound right now. There has been hundreds if not thousands of pitchers throughout the history of baseball that had great stuff, but could never make it in the majors. Is it mechanical? Is it mental? I say YES.

BEETTLEBUG
05-11-2011, 10:17 PM
Can someone please find out for sure if EV can be sent down, if so do it and get him straightened out if possable if not trade for what ever they can get I know we traded Hamilton for him but they might have to bite bullet and live with it.

big boy
05-11-2011, 10:38 PM
Never happen, he is viewed as ACE material, and that won't change. Your closer will come from either Bray, Massett or Logan...

I agree that Volquez is viewed as a #1 starter by Dusty and the Reds. This was made clear when they chose him to start game 1 of the playoffs against the Phillies last year over a guy who nearly no-hit them (Travis Wood).

Reds
05-11-2011, 10:41 PM
I maybe would consider trying a switch of catchers and flavors of Gatorade.

Tadasimha
05-12-2011, 09:10 AM
I maybe would consider trying a switch of catchers and flavors of Gatorade.

If memory serves, one of Volquez's better outings (except for the 6th) was against the Cardinals when Hanigan caught him intstead of Hernandez.

mlh1981
05-12-2011, 09:15 AM
We just need to start viewing this guy a little bit differently. Problem is, he's been forcefed as our "ace" when in reality, he's just another major league starting pitcher.

Just gotta hope he keeps us in ballgames and doesn't butcher things too badly. That's about all I hope for anymore. That, or perhaps some miraculous second half turnaround that's roughly 3 years in the making.

Hey Meat
05-12-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't care how good his stuff is. He doesn't get it and never will. Trade him or DFA him. I could care less what they get for him at this point, I just want the roster spot. The Reds have many other pitchers that despite having inferior stuff will give the Reds a better chance to win.
I say you swap him and Leake. Move Volquez to the pen.

holster10
05-12-2011, 09:51 AM
sure, volquez is keeping them in games. right now, the biggest problem volquez is creating is the continual strain he is placing on the bullpen by only going 4 or 5 innings deep every time out.

Old NDN
05-12-2011, 09:56 AM
Volquez in the pen would be awful, IMO. His lack of control would only make things worse as a reliever. As a starter, at least the Reds get a chance to work on their ability to come from behind, every 5th day.lol. As someone said earlier, there are other options. Let's try somebody else. If he can't/won't be sent down, then let him sit there. And when the Reds get caught short-handed, maybe then they will make a move for somebody they can count on. Chapman is getting to this point, also.

SidneySlicker
05-12-2011, 09:56 AM
sure, volquez is keeping them in games. right now, the biggest problem volquez is creating is the continual strain he is placing on the bullpen by only going 4 or 5 innings deep every time out.

Not to mention if he pulls a 5 walk night against a better hitting team he's not gonna last the 5 or 6 innings he has thus far.

markymark69
05-12-2011, 10:11 AM
He certainly isn't helping himself that's for sure. I agree with the point that Chris Welsh made - I think he is nibbling way too much. Sometimes he can't help it - because the ball doesn't always go where you want it to - but this 0-2 let's a waste a pitch and then nibble - then throw your second and third best pitch so they foul it off and work the walk business needs to stop.

He has as good a change-up as anybody, perhaps better than most and his fastball is certainly plus - he doesn't need to nibble with the stuff he has. I have a feeling he's been told that - but he doesn't trust his stuff - I believe that's the problem.

It's probably a good thing he only signed a one-year deal.

As far as a solution I don't really have one - the bullpen is out - he won't pitch enough to work out his problems - demotion - what's he really going to accomplish against AAA hitters? Pschologically I think that would be very detrimental.

Hopefully he can began to feel the pressure to perform to the level of his peers and the rotation - listening to Bryan Price in his side sessions would probably benefit as well.

jrandal9
05-12-2011, 10:19 AM
Personally, I think we are all flipping out way too early. We are only 37 games into the season on 22.8%, not even a quarter of the way there. If Volkie pitches like this after another 3-4 starts I think that brings up some merit to begin chewing your fingernails. Until then sit back and enjoy the ride because there is a LOOOOONG way to go.

CySeymour
05-12-2011, 10:37 AM
Though I do think it may be too early to give up on Edinson, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he got sent down for 2-3 starts to get straightened out. Or even the infamous phantom injury that requires a few rehab starts.

Vottomatic
05-12-2011, 05:35 PM
According to Lance McAlister's blog, he confirmed with Reds management that Volquez still has options left.

I'd send him down as a wakeup call and to concentrate on throwing strikes. When he pitches a game with 1 walk or less in a reasonable amount of innings, then maybe we think about bringing him back up. He also needs to work on pitch efficiency.

SidneySlicker
05-13-2011, 11:08 AM
According to Lance McAlister's blog, he confirmed with Reds management that Volquez still has options left.

I'd send him down as a wakeup call and to concentrate on throwing strikes. When he pitches a game with 1 walk or less in a reasonable amount of innings, then maybe we think about bringing him back up. He also needs to work on pitch efficiency.

Sweet, and this may not be a popular opinion but I'd bring up, Maloney and leave Lecure and Leake in the pen.

Krawhitham
05-17-2011, 07:32 PM
He is still sucking

DocRed
05-17-2011, 07:42 PM
He needs a shrink...

DStew88
05-17-2011, 08:38 PM
The only problem I see with Volquez is his first innings. After he gets through those, he seems to pitch....well, great. I think Bryan Price needs to get with him and see what his problem is.

Pony Boy
05-17-2011, 10:50 PM
We need to just stick it out with Volquez. He is very close to figuring it out in my opinion. And once he does he will be lights out. It's not like Leake is any better.

Also, we are 6-3 in Volquez's starts this year. So he hasnt really hurt us.

webbbj
05-17-2011, 11:16 PM
We need to just stick it out with Volquez. He is very close to figuring it out in my opinion. And once he does he will be lights out. It's not like Leake is any better.

Also, we are 6-3 in Volquez's starts this year. So he hasnt really hurt us.

yea this. He hasnt had just had complete disaster mode starts. they have all been very mediocre but its 1 inning thats always caused that.

Girevik
05-18-2011, 08:50 AM
He needs a shrink...

Maybe he needs a hypnotist to convince him that he's in the 3rd inning when he starts the game.

Krawhitham
05-22-2011, 01:23 PM
I hate Volquez, DFA him already

Only time he was any good was when he was juicing

RedsFanInBama
05-22-2011, 01:43 PM
He is a 5th starter at this point. Just keep running him out there until it clicks or until he completely pitches himself out of the rotation.
I think we've reached that point.

Kevin1476
05-22-2011, 01:44 PM
Maloney or Leake can do better then this clown. Maybe its the hair do pulling him off the rubber? We cannot keep spotting teams three to four runs in the first inning when he pitches!

redram
05-22-2011, 03:41 PM
This clown is pathetic. Trade him and Gomes for anything. DFA them just get them gone. They are killing us. The look on the faces of the players after the first home run was hit tells it all. Volquez is as bad as it gets. Who gives a crap if he settles down after an inning or two. He puts us in such a bad hole it is a wonder we ever win when he pitches. The wins we did get when he pitches were certainly not of his doing. 2 1/2 back and counting. Who wants to bet Gomes starts in game one against Philly

Krawhitham
05-22-2011, 04:57 PM
Volquez blames the offense

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89435

jwmann2
05-22-2011, 05:20 PM
Man, I don't know if we would have had the cap room, but imagine having Josh Hamilton, Stubbs and Bruce in the outfield. That trade worked out to the Rangers advantage while the Pena/Arroyo trade worked out to our advantage.
Truth is, it is a long season and Volquez will redeem himself. There will also be a point during this season when fans will be dogging Arroyo, Wood, Cueto and Bailey.

powersackers
05-22-2011, 08:11 PM
Man, I don't know if we would have had the cap room, but imagine having Josh Hamilton, Stubbs and Bruce in the outfield. That trade worked out to the Rangers advantage while the Pena/Arroyo trade worked out to our advantage.
Truth is, it is a long season and Volquez will redeem himself. There will also be a point during this season when fans will be dogging Arroyo, Wood, Cueto and Bailey.

No this fan won't. Because there is little chance they will be as consistently worthless as that headcase.

CrosleyField
05-22-2011, 08:33 PM
EV needs to go to the 15 day disabled list to work out his problems. The club can make up a reason. Can't send him down to Louisville. If he doesn't get his crap together then it might be time to DFA.

MBZags
05-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Can't send him down to Louisville.

Why not? Fay has noted on numerous occasions that he has an option left.

Krawhitham
05-22-2011, 08:50 PM
Why not? Fay has noted on numerous occasions that he has an option left.

you get three option years right

The Reds used one last year

He was with the Rangers in 2005 and back in the minors in 2006
He was with the Rangers in 2006 and back in the minors in 2007

unless it was a rehab assignment he is out of options

Krawhitham
05-22-2011, 08:57 PM
Wiki on Options



If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers. However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers. If a major league player is ineligible for free agency and "has options" remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence. This is usually what is meant when players are "sent down" to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is "called up" to the majors.

Vottomatic
05-22-2011, 09:29 PM
you get three option years right

The Reds used one last year

He was with the Rangers in 2005 and back in the minors in 2006
He was with the Rangers in 2006 and back in the minors in 2007

unless it was a rehab assignment he is out of options

Lance McAlister said on his show last week that he confirmed with Reds ownership/management that Volquez still has options left and can be sent down.

wlf WV
05-22-2011, 10:34 PM
Sure glad at this point in the season,he didn't sign the extension offer.He never has shown a command of the strike zone.

webbbj
05-22-2011, 10:35 PM
serious question what kind of trade value does volquez have? could we get a +WAR player? Is there a team that would take a chance on a guy in hopes of fixing his problems and returning him to his former allstar form? Or is pretty much just worth a low to mid level prospect now, or aging vet who is at breakeven WAR?

Old NDN
05-23-2011, 10:29 AM
With his track record with the Rangers, and now the Reds, I really doubt you would get much for him. Most interested teams will just sit back and wait for him to be released/DFA. Not only is he ineffective, but now could be cancerous to the rest of the team, especially the younger Latin players.IMO

ntorvik
05-23-2011, 10:42 AM
Well I mean, would they ever consider dropping him out of the rotation and putting him in the 'pen? Probably not, but the dude needs to go. He is the most frustrating pitcher I think that I've ever watched, maybe aside from Aaron Harang. Drives me crazy.