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mikemo14
05-14-2011, 01:09 AM
Is it just me or does Heisey do something positive, whether it be offensively or defensively everytime Dusty puts him into the game. I for one would still love to see him everyday in leftfield hitting in the two hole.

R_Webb18
05-14-2011, 01:19 AM
no he does not every1 just wants him to play so thats all u remember

goreds2
05-14-2011, 01:26 AM
He will get his share of playing time. Dusty plays all 25. Bummed out that Gomes is going bad. :(

davereds24
05-14-2011, 01:30 AM
he sucks when he starts.

Carolina Red
05-14-2011, 10:56 AM
Gomes sucks when he starts and when he pinch hits. It was a mistake re-signing him. Heisey needs to play everyday. He'll only get better.

xavr1
05-14-2011, 11:41 AM
Lewis or Heisey. Anybody but Gomes, at least for the time being. I would prefer he doesnt have another AB in this series. Last nights K was painful to watch.

Fireball
05-14-2011, 11:43 AM
I do think that Gomes needs to play a little less for a while, but not be buried on the bench. He will get hot at some point, and that's when you ride that guy and throw him out there every day.

Heisey and Lewis should get more of the PT in left for now.

GOBCU33
05-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Heisey hasnt seen the field in only 5 games this year believe it or not, but only has 56 ABs

Maker_84
05-14-2011, 12:48 PM
i think Lewis might be better than Heisey, anybody but Gomes though. Lately it seems Baker is starting Gomes less and less which hopefully will continue or i'm gonna go crazy

mu4103
05-14-2011, 01:21 PM
I guess I would say two things.

First, when you look at Heisey starts, they have been occuring on days when most of the Reds are not hitting, so it could be argued that he is playing on days when the other pitcher seems to have their best stuff. I recall Heisey being only the second baserunner (in the 7th) against the Padres a couple of weeks ago before scooring the tying run in the 3-2 comeback. Last year I remember he broke up a no-hitter late in a game.

The second thing I would say is that, it obviously takes a different approach to pinch hit than start. Juggling back and forth would be difficult. I would like to see him get a real prolonged chance to start and see what he can do. I don't think anyone would argue that he has been given a real chance to succeed as a starter. We know what Gomes can do. We know what Lewis can do. Heisey has not done worse, let him have a chance and if he fails then you can look at other options. He has shown he can do it in the minors and in the spring. Let's see if he can do it in the regular season. There seems to be no downside to giving hiim a shot.

If the Reds don't give him a chance, some other team will and they might regret it.

Fullboat
05-14-2011, 03:14 PM
I guess I would say two things.

First, when you look at Heisey starts, they have been occuring on days when most of the Reds are not hitting, so it could be argued that he is playing on days when the other pitcher seems to have their best stuff. I recall Heisey being only the second baserunner (in the 7th) against the Padres a couple of weeks ago before scooring the tying run in the 3-2 comeback. Last year I remember he broke up a no-hitter late in a game.

The second thing I would say is that, it obviously takes a different approach to pinch hit than start. Juggling back and forth would be difficult. I would like to see him get a real prolonged chance to start and see what he can do. I don't think anyone would argue that he has been given a real chance to succeed as a starter. We know what Gomes can do. We know what Lewis can do. Heisey has not done worse, let him have a chance and if he fails then you can look at other options. He has shown he can do it in the minors and in the spring. Let's see if he can do it in the regular season. There seems to be no downside to giving hiim a shot.

If the Reds don't give him a chance, some other team will and they might regret it.

+1
Each player should be given a series to play

Kevin1476
05-14-2011, 10:19 PM
I would like to see Heisey get more PT, and would love to get Yonder some PT out in left as well, defensively he may need more time, but he cannot be any worse then Gomes in left.

UPRedsFan
05-14-2011, 11:47 PM
Before Gomes k'd last night I knew the pitcher would throw him nothing but breaking balls on the outside corner. That's exactly what happend and Gomes chased them all. Makes me think Gomes doesn't have the eye sight he needs to recognize the breaking pitches. That last one he swung a missed was rediculous.

Left field should be Lewis/Heisey until they prove they can't handle it. Gomes has proven he can't handle it from about July of 2010 on.

Vottomatic
05-15-2011, 10:13 AM
Before Gomes k'd last night I knew the pitcher would throw him nothing but breaking balls on the outside corner. That's exactly what happend and Gomes chased them all. Makes me think Gomes doesn't have the eye sight he needs to recognize the breaking pitches. That last one he swung a missed was rediculous.

Left field should be Lewis/Heisey until they prove they can't handle it. Gomes has proven he can't handle it from about July of 2010 on.

Yeah, Jonny is a straight fastball hitter. Can't hit the breaking pitch. They rarely throw him a fastball he could hit. I did see him take a few good pitches yesterday and then swing at the bad offspeed stuff. Go figure.

mu4103
05-16-2011, 08:55 PM
As of May 16 Chris Heisey has 57 ABs. Joey Votto has 139, Stubbs has 156, Bruce has 144, Phillips has 142, Gomes has 113. I prorated Heisey's numbers and gave him 135 ABs to see how he would compare with the regular starters.
Given 135 ABS at Heisey's present rate, he would be 1st in HR and RBI, 2nd in SB, and 3rd in runs (the other numbers are below as well).

135 ABs
Home Runs: 9 (First: One more than Bruce)
Runs 28 (Third: Behind Stubbs and Votto)
RBI 36 (First: 11 more than Brandon Phillips who is second)
SB: 5 (Tied for second)
AVG: .263 (Sixth among regular starters)
OBP: .338 (eighth among regular starters
OPS: .847 (4th among regular starters behind Votto, Phillips, and Votto)

Here are some thoughts:

1. The RBI numbers could be skewed because pinch-hitters come in most often with people on base.
2. Really some of the numbers are impressive because when he pinch hits the other team usually has one of their best pitchers in.
3. If Heisey is a great pinch-hitter than give him a chance to play on a regular basis - has Gomes shown he deserves it.
4. I am convinced that the numbers are not Dusty's playing the match-up game that he says he plays.
5. Considering that he would be top three in every power category, he should be given an extended period of time to show what he can do. Aren't we looking for a LFer.

UPRedsFan
05-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Just turned the game on to see none other than Johnny Gomes catching a fly ball in left field. What in the world is going on???

Where is Heisey? Why not Lewis against a right hander tonight. I just can't understand Dusty's thinking.

Vottomatic
05-16-2011, 09:17 PM
If I were Jocketty, I'd fire Dusty. This is ridiculous.

Righthander on the mound. Start Fred Lewis and atleast try and give us an advantage.

Gomes has one at-bat against Zambrano for his career.

UPRedsFan
05-16-2011, 09:34 PM
Gomes just looked like a little leaguer who has never seen a breaking ball before. Pitchers should never throw a fastball to Gomes. Or at least never throw one in the strike zone because he'll swing at everything now. Hope Dusty was watching that last at bat.

UPRedsFan
05-16-2011, 09:43 PM
I know we've heard enough from Dusty's philosophy of managing that he probably played Gomes tonight in order to show faith in him, hopefully he'll get a hit off a tough right hander and gain his confidence back.

But why Dusty? Why do we need Gomes to get his confidence back? I'd rather Heisey get a chance to grow. I'd rather Lewis get regular at bats so he can build his confidence and reach his career norms. Gomes was done last year!

UPRedsFan
05-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Still not convinced. Horrible call by the Cubs catcher after Gomes swung and missed at the breaking ball the pitch before. (Good hit though Johnny!)

markymark69
05-16-2011, 11:01 PM
Not a huge fan of Gomes, but it's interesting no one posts anything when he does something good - like hitting a two-run home run - this by no means indicates that Gomes should start every game or Gomes should be an All-Star - I just continue to be amazed at the continued negativity - and nitpicking of every play, player, decision, etc concerning what is a very good baseball team that is fun to watch.

Gomes hits a home run - silence - Gomes strikes out - everybody and their brother's sister's cousin wants him benched, DFA'd or demoted. Amazing.

Stray
05-16-2011, 11:22 PM
Not a huge fan of Gomes, but it's interesting no one posts anything when he does something good - like hitting a two-run home run - this by no means indicates that Gomes should start every game or Gomes should be an All-Star - I just continue to be amazed at the continued negativity - and nitpicking of every play, player, decision, etc concerning what is a very good baseball team that is fun to watch.

Gomes hits a home run - silence - Gomes strikes out - everybody and their brother's sister's cousin wants him benched, DFA'd or demoted. Amazing.

Some posters only feel the need to speak up to say something negative.

Gomes' PT has been on a steady decline since slumping, but I like that we still show some faith in him. He's not great but he's better than he's been playing...maybe today will get him going.

UPRedsFan
05-17-2011, 10:05 AM
Some posters only feel the need to speak up to say something negative.

Gomes' PT has been on a steady decline since slumping, but I like that we still show some faith in him. He's not great but he's better than he's been playing...maybe today will get him going.

Stray and Marky, I did post when he hit the homerun. And I've posted vastly more positive comments on this board than negative. I don't think you've been paying attention to Gomes. If you've been watching he is completely lost. He cannot make contact with any pitch that moves. He has been swinging and missing at breaking balls a foot out of the strike zone. He's not just in a slump, he looks completely over matched at the plate, like he doesn't even belong in this league. It's almost as if he has an eyesight problem and can't recognize the pitches. He is consistently fooled on breaking balls and at this point he can only hit fastballs. It's the same problem that plagued him late last season. The pitcher and catcher made an error in judgement yesterday throwing him a fastball after he had just whiffed on a breaking ball the pitch earlier. I was happy for him to get the homerun and happy for the team, but he still hasn't fixed his achilles heel. With very capable players waiting for their turn, Gomes should be a pinch hitter and occasional starter against left handers until he figures out how to recognize and lay off the breaking ball or lay back and take it to right field instead of swinging from his heels and whiffing every time.

bounty37h
05-17-2011, 10:17 AM
I would like to see Heisey get more PT, and would love to get Yonder some PT out in left as well, defensively he may need more time, but he cannot be any worse then Gomes in left.

From what I have heard, yes, he can.

Ohioballplayer
05-17-2011, 01:20 PM
no he does not every1 just wants him to play so thats all u remember

One thing to say to that my friend ----- RBI total

mu4103
05-17-2011, 05:21 PM
Not a huge fan of Gomes, but it's interesting no one posts anything when he does something good - like hitting a two-run home run - this by no means indicates that Gomes should start every game or Gomes should be an All-Star - I just continue to be amazed at the continued negativity - and nitpicking of every play, player, decision, etc concerning what is a very good baseball team that is fun to watch.

Gomes hits a home run - silence - Gomes strikes out - everybody and their brother's sister's cousin wants him benched, DFA'd or demoted. Amazing.

It's not Gomes that is the problem. It is that he plays everyday despite mediocre numbers. I think everyone is fed up with Gomes though. Bruce was getting the same treatment last year, but he busted out. Gomes has a longer track record to show what he can and cannot do.

5TimeWSChamps
05-17-2011, 05:30 PM
Heisey's numbers when he starts are nowhere close to his career splits though. Seems like he is more productive in the PH role

Stray
05-17-2011, 05:43 PM
It's not Gomes that is the problem. It is that he plays everyday despite mediocre numbers. I think everyone is fed up with Gomes though. Bruce was getting the same treatment last year, but he busted out. Gomes has a longer track record to show what he can and cannot do.

Since going into his slump he hasn't been playing everyday, or even close to it. His PT has been on a steady decline.

That doesn't mean he won't get anymore starts though, eventually he'll hit out of his slump and get back to the .250 hitter (or whatever he is) that will knock in some runs.

markymark69
05-17-2011, 07:47 PM
It's not Gomes that is the problem. It is that he plays everyday despite mediocre numbers. I think everyone is fed up with Gomes though. Bruce was getting the same treatment last year, but he busted out. Gomes has a longer track record to show what he can and cannot do.

He's not been playing as much lately. The point is - every player struggles - every player has peaks. The majority of the time the player's stuggles are focused on much more than the peaks - even when the Reds win the game - there seems to always be a post that so-and-so struck out - so-and-so walked four guys - what is not mentioned is that same player came through later - or he threw a key double-play ball to get out of the jam.

More often than not it's always the negative not the positive. I realize that society has moved this way - I just don't want to be a part of it.

I always thought what mattered most was the win - not the every little nit-picky negative that happened.

mu4103
05-17-2011, 08:12 PM
As of May 16 Chris Heisey has 57 ABs. Joey Votto has 139, Stubbs has 156, Bruce has 144, Phillips has 142, Gomes has 113. I prorated Heisey's numbers and gave him 135 ABs to see how he would compare with the regular starters.
Given 135 ABS at Heisey's present rate, he would be 1st in HR and RBI, 2nd in SB, and 3rd in runs (the other numbers are below as well).

135 ABs
Home Runs: 9 (First: One more than Bruce)
Runs 28 (Third: Behind Stubbs and Votto)
RBI 36 (First: 11 more than Brandon Phillips who is second)
SB: 5 (Tied for second)
AVG: .263 (Sixth among regular starters)

As I guess this is a Heisey thread, the real question is, why is Heisey not playing more. As I showed in the numbers above - his stats prorated (with less ABs than most starters) put him in the top three in every major category except for AVG. This is not a negative, but come on give him a chance.

DStew88
05-17-2011, 09:41 PM
I for one would love to see Heisey get a lot more playing time. But, I would also not give up on Johnny Gomes at the same time. You got to remember what he was doing last year. Nobody was complaining about him then. I think his homer last night could get him going. And if he does get hot, look out.