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View Full Version : Trade for a LFer?



Vottomatic
05-15-2011, 09:54 AM
Looking at the standings, the following teams are doing lousy and probably will continue to do lousy..........which makes them possibly willing trade partners:

Minnesota, White Sox, Mets, Mariners, Padres, Diamondbacks, Houston, Nationals...........and then possibly the Dodgers since their organization is a wreck to begin with and they need salary relief.

1. Could probably pry away Andre Ethier to play LF. I'm not that crazy about the guy. He has little speed, won't steal a base or anything.......but his OBP (.417) is always good and he's one of the better hitters in the league (.355 BA). If we can put up with Gomes defense, then we could put up with Ethier's. Stick him in the leadoff spot or 2-hole and we have men on base all the time probably. He makes $9.5M this season and heads to his 4th arbitration in '12. Reds could decline arb and make him a FA if they wanted.

2. Same could be said about Dodgers Matt Kemp (.336 BA, .421 OBP, 12 SB's, 7 HR's). Ethier with speed. Makes $7.1M this year and heads to his 3rd arbitration in '12.

3. Carlos Beltran (.296 BA, .384 OBP, 8 HR's, 24 RBI). His $20M salary this season is a huge obstacle unless Mets throw in some ca$h. FA in '12.

4. Jason Kubel, Twins. Has averaged 23 HR's and 90 RBI over the last 3 seasons. Career .275 batting average and hit .300 in '09 in 146 games. He makes $5.25M and will be a FA in '12. Splits time between playing OF and DHing.

5. It would never happen unless you traded the farm, but the Blue Jays are struggling. Bautista hitting behind Votto would get Joey some good pitches to hit. Bautista makes $8M this year and is set to make $14M in '12 thru '15. Dude might hit 60 HR's in GABP. Reds can't afford it, but $14M for a bonafide power hitter is cheap. Currently on pace for his best season ever, currently hitting .354 with 13 HR's, while leading all of the major leagues with a 1.315 OPS. Dream on. It would be funny to see the look on the faces of the players in St. Louis when they heard this trade went down. :laugh:

We can't keep sending Gomes and his .180 batting average out there everyday. And we need some protection for Joey. :thumbup:

Vottomatic
05-15-2011, 10:08 AM
Other positions I'd be interested in upgrading is the bullpen. I'd love to pry JJ Putz away from the struggling Diamondbacks. He makes $4.5M this season and is signed through '13. Cheap replacement option for when Cordero leaves.

Fireball
05-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Bautista is not going to happen. The Jays just signed him to a long-term deal. Of the rest, I wouldn't mind getting Kemp or Ethier.

Otherwise, give Heisey and Lewis a shot. Kubel is just decent, and Beltran is old and injury-prone. I'd rather have what we currently have than either of them.

The DARK
05-15-2011, 11:20 AM
If we're gonna trade for a LFer, we should trade some of the LF talent we've got stored; we don't need 8 candidates for the LF job (Gomes, Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt, Frazier, Alonso, Francisco, Hermida) all blocked by whoever comes over in the trade.

I'm sold on Bautista more than many, but there's no way the Jays give him up. I don't like Kubel... bad defense and struggling against lefties means that he's not much better than Gomes from the other side.

Kemp would be a huge victory for the Reds. Beltran would be a nice rental if we're in position come playoff time, and take the pressure off Phillips and Rolen in the 4 spot. Ethier doesn't look too bad either. For the rest of the season while the competition builds up, I'd love to have one of these guys.

The DARK
05-15-2011, 11:31 AM
If we're gonna trade for a LFer, we should trade some of the LF talent we've got stored; we don't need 8 candidates for the LF job (Gomes, Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt, Frazier, Alonso, Francisco, Hermida) all blocked by whoever comes over in the trade.

I'm sold on Bautista more than many, but there's no way the Jays give him up. I don't like Kubel... bad defense and struggling against lefties means that he's not much better than Gomes from the other side.

Kemp would be a huge victory for the Reds. Beltran would be a nice rental if we're in position come playoff time, and take the pressure off Phillips and Rolen in the 4 spot. Ethier doesn't look too bad either. For the rest of the season while the competition builds up, I'd love to have one of these guys.

The DARK
05-15-2011, 11:35 AM
Other positions I'd be interested in upgrading is the bullpen. I'd love to pry JJ Putz away from the struggling Diamondbacks. He makes $4.5M this season and is signed through '13. Cheap replacement option for when Cordero leaves.

Neat idea. I like your thinking. If he doesn't pan out, the third year is a club option.

webbbj
05-15-2011, 11:51 AM
i saw another poster mention delmon young and thought it was a great idea.

arkimadee
05-15-2011, 12:08 PM
I noticed Lewis is in the lineup today. Dusty is slowly taking Gomes out of the everyday roll and looks to be beginning platooning LF

Maker_84
05-15-2011, 12:24 PM
there's no need to trade for a LF now since we have two capable players in Lewis and Heisey who should be splitting time with Gomes as a permanent bench/PH

arkimadee
05-15-2011, 12:32 PM
there's no need to trade for a LF now since we have two capable players in Lewis and Heisey who should be splitting time with Gomes as a permanent bench/PH
I agree.. It's what we got Lewis for. No need in losing a prospect in trade on a position that isn't crucial because the team is so set in other positions. Atleast see how that plays out until the trading deadline and then you can possibly get some of these guys for less. No need to hurry and make a deal.

Vottomatic
05-15-2011, 01:46 PM
I understand money issues for the small market Reds are an issue. But my concern is getting Votto pitches to hit, just like Holliday gets Pujols pitches to hit. Do Heisey/Lewis/Gomes/Rolen/or Bruce strike fear in opposing pitchers where they feel the need to pitch to Votto? No.

Pujols has the luxury of Holliday batting behind him. Votto got intentionally walked twice yesterday. This is a problem in my eyes. And when his three year contract is up and the Reds have failed to either develop or trade for a guy to hit behind Joey, don't you think Votto will be frustrated enough to go to a larger market club with a great lineup around him?

The Reds lineup is missing that one guy right now. A 4-hole hitter with a presence. I think the Reds were hoping Jay Bruce would develop into that guy, but he hasn't.

Again, I realize money is an issue. But I also think this team moves to a higher level if they get THAT GUY to hit in the 4-hole.

Many on here keep citing the top offense (actually behind the Cardinals). But there is always room for improvement.

I have no problem seeing what Heisey/Lewis can do. I just keep wondering if we will ever see it because of Krusty.

SidneySlicker
05-16-2011, 11:29 AM
I'd give a full look at Chris Heisey before I'd trade for any left fielders. I'm really hoping that Heisey can translate his success as a pinch hitter and defensive strength into starting every day. No one knows though until we get a chance to see it everyday. If Heisey gets a chance and fails, then I think next there's a real chance you could see Sappelt in Center and Stubbs in left.

SidneySlicker
05-16-2011, 11:55 AM
I understand money issues for the small market Reds are an issue. But my concern is getting Votto pitches to hit, just like Holliday gets Pujols pitches to hit. Do Heisey/Lewis/Gomes/Rolen/or Bruce strike fear in opposing pitchers where they feel the need to pitch to Votto? No.

Pujols has the luxury of Holliday batting behind him. Votto got intentionally walked twice yesterday. This is a problem in my eyes. And when his three year contract is up and the Reds have failed to either develop or trade for a guy to hit behind Joey, don't you think Votto will be frustrated enough to go to a larger market club with a great lineup around him?

The Reds lineup is missing that one guy right now. A 4-hole hitter with a presence. I think the Reds were hoping Jay Bruce would develop into that guy, but he hasn't.

Again, I realize money is an issue. But I also think this team moves to a higher level if they get THAT GUY to hit in the 4-hole.

Many on here keep citing the top offense (actually behind the Cardinals). But there is always room for improvement.

I have no problem seeing what Heisey/Lewis can do. I just keep wondering if we will ever see it because of Krusty.

If the right deal were presented I'd probably go for it, but there isn't anyone out there that I'm willing to sell the farm on.

Pony Boy
05-16-2011, 12:05 PM
I think that the best move for the Reds right now is no move at all. We basically have 3 areas that could be upgraded:

1. LF- This is only an area of concern because Gomes is the primary starter. We have 4 players that should probably be getting starts ahead of Gomes. (Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt and Alonso). The solution is to put Gomes in a true platoon where he only gets ABs against lefties. No need for a trade.

2. SS- This is kinda, sorta a weakness, but Janish and Renteria are doing more or less a fine job. An upgrade would be very expensive. No need for a trade.

3. Ace starting pitcher. Always a need. This obviously isnt the time to address this issue. Maybe Bailey and/or Cueto have finally turned the corner and become true #1 type pitchers, maybe not. This should be addressed at the deadline.

Girevik
05-16-2011, 12:09 PM
I understand money issues for the small market Reds are an issue. But my concern is getting Votto pitches to hit, just like Holliday gets Pujols pitches to hit. Do Heisey/Lewis/Gomes/Rolen/or Bruce strike fear in opposing pitchers where they feel the need to pitch to Votto? No.

I have to say, I've been really impressed with the way Phillips has handled the 4 hole. He's not your prototypical cleanup guy, but he might not be a bad bet there. I also think that if they did go out and get antoher LF to bat leadoff (or start batting Heisy / Lewis there), that Stubbs could bloom into a cleanup bat.

Girevik
05-16-2011, 12:10 PM
I think that the best move for the Reds right now is no move at all. We basically have 3 areas that could be upgraded:

1. LF- This is only an area of concern because Gomes is the primary starter. We have 4 players that should probably be getting starts ahead of Gomes. (Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt and Alonso). The solution is to put Gomes in a true platoon where he only gets ABs against lefties. No need for a trade.

2. SS- This is kinda, sorta a weakness, but Janish and Renteria are doing more or less a fine job. An upgrade would be very expensive. No need for a trade.

3. Ace starting pitcher. Always a need. This obviously isnt the time to address this issue. Maybe Bailey and/or Cueto have finally turned the corner and become true #1 type pitchers, maybe not. This should be addressed at the deadline.

I'd actually put 3B near the top of the list. I'm concerned about Rolen's durability and would love to find his replacement.

Pony Boy
05-16-2011, 12:16 PM
5. It would never happen unless you traded the farm, but the Blue Jays are struggling. Bautista hitting behind Votto would get Joey some good pitches to hit. Bautista makes $8M this year and is set to make $14M in '12 thru '15. Dude might hit 60 HR's in GABP. Reds can't afford it, but $14M for a bonafide power hitter is cheap. Currently on pace for his best season ever, currently hitting .354 with 13 HR's, while leading all of the major leagues with a 1.315 OPS. Dream on. It would be funny to see the look on the faces of the players in St. Louis when they heard this trade went down. :laugh:


The idea of trading for Bautista probably deserves its own thread. It is so unlikely, but damn that would be cool. His OPS+ is 284 and it is mid-May. That is so freaking awesome.

I have no idea what his trade value would be. On the one hand he had an MVP-type season last year and is having a historic season this year, but before 2010 he wasnt even a league-average hitter for parts of 6 seasons.

lonewolf371
05-16-2011, 02:55 PM
Looking at the standings, the following teams are doing lousy and probably will continue to do lousy..........which makes them possibly willing trade partners:

Minnesota, White Sox, Mets, Mariners, Padres, Diamondbacks, Houston, Nationals...........and then possibly the Dodgers since their organization is a wreck to begin with and they need salary relief.

1. Could probably pry away Andre Ethier to play LF. I'm not that crazy about the guy. He has little speed, won't steal a base or anything.......but his OBP (.417) is always good and he's one of the better hitters in the league (.355 BA). If we can put up with Gomes defense, then we could put up with Ethier's. Stick him in the leadoff spot or 2-hole and we have men on base all the time probably. He makes $9.5M this season and heads to his 4th arbitration in '12. Reds could decline arb and make him a FA if they wanted.

2. Same could be said about Dodgers Matt Kemp (.336 BA, .421 OBP, 12 SB's, 7 HR's). Ethier with speed. Makes $7.1M this year and heads to his 3rd arbitration in '12.

3. Carlos Beltran (.296 BA, .384 OBP, 8 HR's, 24 RBI). His $20M salary this season is a huge obstacle unless Mets throw in some ca$h. FA in '12.

4. Jason Kubel, Twins. Has averaged 23 HR's and 90 RBI over the last 3 seasons. Career .275 batting average and hit .300 in '09 in 146 games. He makes $5.25M and will be a FA in '12. Splits time between playing OF and DHing.

5. It would never happen unless you traded the farm, but the Blue Jays are struggling. Bautista hitting behind Votto would get Joey some good pitches to hit. Bautista makes $8M this year and is set to make $14M in '12 thru '15. Dude might hit 60 HR's in GABP. Reds can't afford it, but $14M for a bonafide power hitter is cheap. Currently on pace for his best season ever, currently hitting .354 with 13 HR's, while leading all of the major leagues with a 1.315 OPS. Dream on. It would be funny to see the look on the faces of the players in St. Louis when they heard this trade went down. :laugh:

We can't keep sending Gomes and his .180 batting average out there everyday. And we need some protection for Joey. :thumbup:
Kubel is actually probably the guy I like best, but he doesn't quite have the profile of a prototypical clean-up hitter. He mashes righties and there aren't many great lefties in the NL.

As always, it all comes down to cost, though.

RedsFanInBama
05-16-2011, 03:03 PM
Is Alonso so much worse in left than Gomes that he can't get a look? He's ready to play for the Reds RIGHT NOW and if he can't play anywhere else, we need to at least trade him to get some help somewhere.

Also, I'd still prefer to run Heisey out there than Gomes. We're better defensively and the book is far from written on Heisey, while it certainly is on Gomes. Plus you get some extra speed in the lineup.

krm1580
05-16-2011, 03:15 PM
How sweet would Jose Bautista be in a Reds uniform right now playing LF and batting in the #4 spot behind Joey Votto? He can play 3B on days when Rolen is out and is in the first year of an extremely reasonable 5 year, 65million contract.

I doubt the Blue Jays are willing to move him but if his production from the All-Star break forward is legit and I am starting to think it is, I would be pretty willing to pay a kings ransom for him.

bounty37h
05-16-2011, 03:20 PM
[QUOTE=RedsFanInBama;2381557]Is Alonso so much worse in left than Gomes that he can't get a look? By every account I have heard, yes, that bad and worse.

RedsFanInBama
05-16-2011, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=RedsFanInBama;2381557]Is Alonso so much worse in left than Gomes that he can't get a look? By every account I have heard, yes, that bad and worse.

I'd assume he'll be traded this year, then. We don't need a backup first baseman.

redsrolen
05-16-2011, 03:23 PM
I do believe Heisey and Lewis should be given a chance. My biggest concern is 3rd base. Yes Scotty is a family friend, this has nothing to do with his talent, but I believe he should be platooned if you want to keep his body for the playoffs. He still has a great bat, if he's not injured, you play him anywhere near what you played him last year, you'll be in trouble. Also move him down to 5th or 6th in the order, he's been 4th for yrs., let Phillips take over!

bounty37h
05-16-2011, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=bounty37h;2381567]

I'd assume he'll be traded this year, then. We don't need a backup first baseman.

Thats my though (and hope to be honest). I am going to see the Bats in Durham this week, rain allowing, and hope to see more for myself.

lonewolf371
05-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Is Alonso so much worse in left than Gomes that he can't get a look? He's ready to play for the Reds RIGHT NOW and if he can't play anywhere else, we need to at least trade him to get some help somewhere.

Also, I'd still prefer to run Heisey out there than Gomes. We're better defensively and the book is far from written on Heisey, while it certainly is on Gomes. Plus you get some extra speed in the lineup.
Yes, Alonso is that bad.


How sweet would Jose Bautista be in a Reds uniform right now playing LF and batting in the #4 spot behind Joey Votto? He can play 3B on days when Rolen is out and is in the first year of an extremely reasonable 5 year, 65million contract.

I doubt the Blue Jays are willing to move him but if his production from the All-Star break forward is legit and I am starting to think it is, I would be pretty willing to pay a kings ransom for him.
Not a chance. With his contract and skills, likely the only way that Bautista comes here is if Votto leaves.