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Carolina Red
05-16-2011, 08:59 PM
You know, I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there. I think the whole LaRussa/Duncan show has gotten kinda stale.......it's run it's course in old St. Louis. You can see the frustration now that there is a legitimate contender to compete with them and beat them year in and year out in the NL Central. LaRussa doesn't seem to be the same "genius" manager that he has always been praised as being now that he doesn't have Walt Jocketty feeding him talent to work with. Same goes for Duncan. I believe we are seeing the end of an era......time for the LaRussa/Duncan show to shuffle off to another town for a few years. I think this time next year you'll see a whole new staff running the show in old St. Louis.

Vottomatic
05-16-2011, 09:35 PM
I agree.

That's why their players and coaches are acting like babies. They are totally frustrated.

Magdal
05-16-2011, 11:52 PM
You know, I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there. I think the whole LaRussa/Duncan show has gotten kinda stale.......it's run it's course in old St. Louis. You can see the frustration now that there is a legitimate contender to compete with them and beat them year in and year out in the NL Central. LaRussa doesn't seem to be the same "genius" manager that he has always been praised as being now that he doesn't have Walt Jocketty feeding him talent to work with. Same goes for Duncan. I believe we are seeing the end of an era......time for the LaRussa/Duncan show to shuffle off to another town for a few years. I think this time next year you'll see a whole new staff running the show in old St. Louis.

I could not agree more....but I think TRL is gonna have to drop dead before there is a change. I would love to see them and Pujols in Chicago next year.

10xWSChamps
05-16-2011, 11:59 PM
The manager/pitching coach combo has spent the majority of their careers without him. The combo has had 3 of the 4 cy young winners without Walt. 3 of 6 MVP winners (the rest were Pujols).

LaRUssa is 66 years old, Duncan looks like he's even older. The guys have been in St Louis for 17 years now. Pre-Walt and post-Walt. The ownership is going to keep them here as long as they want.

Our weaknesses this year has been a terrible bullpen, outside of a couple guy, and a really bad defense. But there's an extremely good offense and starting pitching here.

Saying they are frustrated seems uninformed at best. THis team is as loose as I've seen them in... well... I can't remember the last time I saw a fun-loving team here. But really that is part of LaRussa's personality. A team takes on the personality of their manager and LaRussa has had a pole up his butt since day 1. LaRussa hasn't become stale, he is an intense as ever and it's obvious that his players still respect him a great deal.

You haven't been paying attention to the Cardinals very much the past 15+ years if you think LaRussa doesn't always fun a fairly uptight team. But it's part of what makes him a great manager. And as much as you Reds fans hate Carpenter, his personality is part of what has made him a great pichter too. Sometimes, in sports at least, being uptight and intensely focused isn't such a bad thing.

Carolina Red
05-17-2011, 01:00 AM
The manager/pitching coach combo has spent the majority of their careers without him. The combo has had 3 of the 4 cy young winners without Walt. 3 of 6 MVP winners (the rest were Pujols).

LaRUssa is 66 years old, Duncan looks like he's even older. The guys have been in St Louis for 17 years now. Pre-Walt and post-Walt. The ownership is going to keep them here as long as they want.

Our weaknesses this year has been a terrible bullpen, outside of a couple guy, and a really bad defense. But there's an extremely good offense and starting pitching here.

Saying they are frustrated seems uninformed at best. THis team is as loose as I've seen them in... well... I can't remember the last time I saw a fun-loving team here. But really that is part of LaRussa's personality. A team takes on the personality of their manager and LaRussa has had a pole up his butt since day 1. LaRussa hasn't become stale, he is an intense as ever and it's obvious that his players still respect him a great deal.

You haven't been paying attention to the Cardinals very much the past 15+ years if you think LaRussa doesn't always fun a fairly uptight team. But it's part of what makes him a great manager. And as much as you Reds fans hate Carpenter, his personality is part of what has made him a great pichter too. Sometimes, in sports at least, being uptight and intensely focused isn't such a bad thing.



TLR won both of his World Series with Jocketty. Jocketty was also the GM in Oakland when TLR was there. The fact of the matter is TLR has made a career of beating up on a division of a couple of small market teams (Cincy and Pitt), the Astros, and the Lovable Losers in Chitown. During that time he has run off some pretty talented players because he couldn't get along with them. No, I don't think TLR has become stale. I just think he's overrated as a manager. He's always had tons of talent to work with. And as for the team, well they looked pretty frustrated at the end of the game on Sunday. Trust me, another second or third place season and the Tony and Dave Show will be gone. A few more FA's like 8 mil for Lance Berkman to play right field and your GM won't be far behind.

cw0802
05-19-2011, 12:23 PM
You know, I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there. I think the whole LaRussa/Duncan show has gotten kinda stale.......it's run it's course in old St. Louis. You can see the frustration now that there is a legitimate contender to compete with them and beat them year in and year out in the NL Central. LaRussa doesn't seem to be the same "genius" manager that he has always been praised as being now that he doesn't have Walt Jocketty feeding him talent to work with. Same goes for Duncan. I believe we are seeing the end of an era......time for the LaRussa/Duncan show to shuffle off to another town for a few years. I think this time next year you'll see a whole new staff running the show in old St. Louis.


As a Cards fan, i'll agree. I was disappointed when LaRussa came back this season. The organization has said they're committed to bringing up young home grown talent, and acquiring veteran free agents (Berkman). I don't think that mix works with LaRussa's style and hungry young talented players don't want to be brought up to ride the pine. They want to play and LaRussa doesn't let them play.

Case in point, Rasmus. Talented player, Tony says "he can't hit major league left handed pitching"...well...play him and let him learn. We can even go with Ludwick too. The dude won a silver slugger and was an All-Star, LaRussa still platooned him in right field. These are the moves that frustrate the Cardinal fans to no end.

I was going to skip this season and follow the Rangers this season, but they picked up Berkman. So the lineup consisting of Rasmus, Pujols, Holliday, Berkman and Freese became very interesting.

Anyway, I'm not one of those haters that whine about the Reds or anything like that. I'll try to have an intelligent conversation with you guys. Much luck with the rest of the season.

SeeinRed
05-19-2011, 01:30 PM
I don't know what it is about the latest incident, but it seems to have really struck a nerve with a lot of people in Cardinal country. Not just LaRussa and Duncan, but also writers and a lot of fans. It has been written about by beat writers and talked about by Cardinal coaches every day since. Reds fans have followed it and put their two cents in for sure, but it really seems to have taken on a life of its own in St. Louis.

The latest attempt by LaRussa to discredit Marty is really quite a good example of why I think the Cardinals are really bothered by the Reds and maybe being one of the most disliked teams in the NL. If you are really not that disliked, and get compliments all the time for being a good sport, why respond to on person saying that your team is on of the most disliked? If it really was the case that you were a well liked team, why do you care what one person says about you? Obviously, I can understand being upset about being told you were not well liked, but there seems to be some obsessing going on.

Really, I up until a couple years ago really thought the Cardinals were a very well run and respectable organization. Then you hear them complain about the balls at GABP, then they all but say Arroyo was cheating, complain about the mound, complain about the balls again, and it goes on and on. Thats just against the Reds. Mo Egger has a nice summation on his blog (http://www.espn1530.com/pages/mo.html?article=8594756) about how a lot of us feel. They earned respect and then abused that. There is a definite sense of entitlement that has really made the organization appear to be quite foolish and arrogant to most outside of St. Louis. I honestly don't believe some of them see that.

Disclaimer: I am mostly talking about the organization, though I would include some of the writers and a small section of fans in what I just wrote. Most of the St. Louis fans are good folks and that includes most on here as well.

bounty37h
05-19-2011, 01:34 PM
I do have to say, teh first series this yera in St Louis I could hardly stand to watch the game as thats all the St louis gus were talking about on their broadcast. I only got to watch this past Sundays game in Cincy, but never heard a single mention of any of it til the 9th when the Cards dugout ran their stupid traps again.

cw0802
05-19-2011, 01:50 PM
One quote i heard about CoCo hitting Pujols was "A veteran closer doesn't miss like that"...i think Duncan said that. But I agree with most, you're not going to hit Pujols intentionally in that situation then have to deal with Holliday and Berkman?

If there's one thing that LaRussa and Duncan have proven over the years, if your pitcher is going to pitch high and tight, you better not miss or you're in for this kinda thing.

The whole Marty thing...LaRussa needs to let stuff like that go. But as he said in an article today, you're going to defend family, and family comes first. But i really don't think what LaRussa said can be taken as "whining" or "slamming". He was asked for a comment, and that was a way of saying if you're going to carry the title of HoF broadcaster, you should act like it.

Defacto
05-19-2011, 03:03 PM
TLR won both of his World Series with Jocketty. Jocketty was also the GM in Oakland when TLR was there.

No. Jocketty was in Oakland's FO when LaRussa was there(wasn't GM), he then left for the Rockies for one year. He was in St. Louis for one year before he hired LaRussa.

Vottomatic
05-19-2011, 03:57 PM
All that matters is that St. Louis is on the decline and this year is probably the end of the road for them for awhile. Their farm system is in shambles. TLR and Duncan's time has come and gone. Pujols will leave. Berkman is old and on the verge of breaking down. The team is a defensive nightmare. Carpenter is getting old. Wainwright has awhile to recover and then regain his form.

Put a fork in them after this season.

Defacto
05-19-2011, 04:01 PM
All that matters is that St. Louis is on the decline and this year is probably the end of the road for them for awhile. Their farm system is in shambles. TLR and Duncan's time has come and gone. Pujols will leave. Berkman is old and on the verge of breaking down. The team is a defensive nightmare. Carpenter is getting old. Wainwright has awhile to recover and then regain his form.

Put a fork in them after this season.

Really? They have two minor league SPs(Miller and Martinez) that might be up in 1-2 seasons.

Not to mention Zach Cox, Seth Blair, Swagerty, etc.

Carpenter may not be in the future plans if his option isn't picked up.