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cinreds21
05-18-2011, 10:19 AM
Mudcats catcher Chris McMurray has been transfered to Short-Season Billings while outfielder Denis Phips has been activated off the 7-day disabled list.

The Bats, less than 12 hours after shocking the 40 Durham Bulls fans that were left in the crowd in an amazing comeback, will square off again in what will be a nice day game in the Bull City.

Right-handed pitcher Mike Leake will make his "long-awaited" debut in the minor leagues. Bats, Bulls, get some!

cumberlandreds
05-18-2011, 11:27 AM
The Bats game is supposed to be on the MLB Network.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm excited about getting to watch this one on TV. With it being a day game after night game I was worried I wouldn't get a chance to Mesoraco play but he's in there DHing today.

Kc61
05-18-2011, 12:15 PM
Francisco homers.

cinreds21
05-18-2011, 12:16 PM
Leake wearing number one and going with high socks today.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 12:17 PM
Mike Leake with a 1-2-3 first inning. Two ground outs and a strike out.

_Sir_Charles_
05-18-2011, 12:22 PM
The Bats game is supposed to be on the MLB Network.

It is. Leake looking solid thus far. Juan's dinger looked like it was off a broken bat shot off his hands. Wow.

Homer Bailey
05-18-2011, 12:35 PM
Leake, the guy that management decided didn't need any time in the minor leagues, gives up 3 hits, then a grand slam.

_Sir_Charles_
05-18-2011, 12:35 PM
3 straight bloops hits. Really cheap hits. But it loads the bases....for the grandslam that WAS hard hit. 4-1 Bulls.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Three bloop hits against Leake, followed by a grand slam.

Homer Bailey
05-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Lopez's hit was not a bloop.

LoganBuck
05-18-2011, 02:00 PM
Has Yonder Alonso opened his stance up more than in the past?

_Sir_Charles_
05-18-2011, 02:14 PM
Hermida just hit a 3 run bomb to cut the lead to 1. 5-4 Bulls (8th)

GOYA
05-18-2011, 02:19 PM
For the life of me I just don't understand why the Reds sent Francisco down. He's always a slow starter but he's smoking hot now.

The DARK
05-18-2011, 02:25 PM
For the life of me I just don't understand why the Reds sent Francisco down. He's always a slow starter but he's smoking hot now.

Lewis is hot as well, Heisey belongs, and Dusty loves Gomes (Kinda kidding there. He's a great teammate and hits his fair share of homers.)

batsfan
05-18-2011, 02:26 PM
For the life of me I just don't understand why the Reds sent Francisco down. He's always a slow starter but he's smoking hot now.

Who would you have sent down to make room for him?

Kc61
05-18-2011, 02:26 PM
For the life of me I just don't understand why the Reds sent Francisco down. He's always a slow starter but he's smoking hot now.

Two possible answers:

1. Reds just don't have a spot for JF right now. Cairo, Renteria, Lewis, Hanigan, Heisey is the bench. Who gets shipped out?

2. Reds don't want to insult the majority of RedsZone readers by bringing JF up. Even a red hot JF.

HalMorrisRules
05-18-2011, 02:28 PM
Wow, Herrera is sporting a new look with the mustache and long hair. Not sure I would have recognized him (other than his height, that is).

GOYA
05-18-2011, 02:36 PM
Who would you have sent down to make room for him?

I know it would never happen but I'd ship Gomes out. I like the guy but...

I'd see if he could clear waivers.

Baseball
05-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Blaze with a rare noon game today.

Down 2-0 after 3.

Fellhauer is 2-2 with a double.

Means back in the lineup today. 21-22 stolen bases this season.

Baseball
05-18-2011, 04:19 PM
1,2,3 in the 4th...still 2-0.

3 hits - 2 by Fellhauer, 1 by Buckholz

Janke's throwing. 5 BB's so far.

Baseball
05-18-2011, 04:23 PM
top of 5...

Janke walks the first and gives up a 2-run HR to the next hitter. 4-0.

Janke pulled. Thurman now pitching, gets 3 outs with 5 pitches.

The DARK
05-18-2011, 04:48 PM
I like Thurman. Hopefully he can contribute as a shutdown reliever in the majors.

muddie
05-18-2011, 05:39 PM
Guys, brace yourself. The Mudcats lost again today. This one brings the ten game road trip to a grinding end.

dougdirt
05-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Daniel Corcino started game 1 of Daytons double header. He has allowed 1 hit, no walks and has 9 strikeouts through 5 innings. Dragons up 3-0 on a David Vidal 3 run HR.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 07:35 PM
Corcino:

6 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 11 K

He's following in the same path of Johnny Cueto. I remember Cueto struggled in his first couple starts with Dayton then went on a great run.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 07:42 PM
Juan Duran is 2-for-3 with a HR (#4) and 3 RBI as he pushes his OPS over .800 again.

HokieRed
05-18-2011, 08:44 PM
Juan Francisco now at .385/.415/.615/1.030. Hard to think a bat like that couldn't be useful, in some capacity, in Cinti.

cinreds21
05-18-2011, 08:48 PM
I didn't realize he got optioned yesterday. Oh well.

GOYA
05-18-2011, 09:25 PM
Last 10 games OPS

Alonso - 1.206

Hermida - 1.045
Francisco - 1.030
Dorn - 1.017

Mesoraco - .976
Frazier - .944

Cozart .812

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2011, 09:58 PM
Billy Hamilton stole two bases in game one and three more so far in game two. He's up to 29 for the season.

The DARK
05-18-2011, 10:30 PM
Billy Hamilton stole two bases in game one and three more so far in game two. He's up to 29 for the season.

So essentially, his walks and singles are actually doubles?

corkedbat
05-18-2011, 11:37 PM
Last 10 games OPS

Alonso - 1.206

Hermida - 1.045
Francisco - 1.030
Dorn - 1.017

Mesoraco - .976
Frazier - .944

Cozart .812

Hate those Punch-and-Judy shortstops. :D

GOYA
05-19-2011, 12:18 AM
Last 10 games OPS

Alonso - 1.206

Hermida - 1.045
Francisco - 1.030
Dorn - 1.017

Mesoraco - .976
Frazier - .944

Cozart .812

The Bats scored 61 runs over those last 10 games and went 5-5.
4, 1, 3, 1 and 6 runs were scored in the losses.

Caveat Emperor
05-19-2011, 12:47 AM
For the life of me I just don't understand why the Reds sent Francisco down.

He can't hit major league pitching, for starters.

reds44
05-19-2011, 12:55 AM
He can't hit major league pitching, for starters.
Career line of:
.295/.356/.400 and an OPS+ of 105.

Want to try again?

cinreds21
05-19-2011, 02:07 AM
I think this went through the cracks but Eric Eymann was released the other day.

bubbachunk
05-19-2011, 08:32 AM
Career line of:
.295/.356/.400 and an OPS+ of 105.

Want to try again?

So a 756 OPS for a guy playing 3B who is maybe average defensively is going to cut it? He still needs some time for improvement, he looked completely lost at the plate this year.

cumberlandreds
05-19-2011, 09:13 AM
So what was Leake's final line?

HokieRed
05-19-2011, 09:24 AM
So what was Leake's final line?

5.1/8hits/5 runs, all earned /0W/4K's/2HR

lollipopcurve
05-19-2011, 10:12 AM
Francisco looked good yesterday. Worked a nice walk vs the tough lefty Swindle. I like him a lot better than Frazier as the 3B of the future.

Caveat Emperor
05-19-2011, 03:44 PM
Career line of:
.295/.356/.400 and an OPS+ of 105.

Want to try again?

Of course, that's with a grand total of 104 PAs -- and if you look at just last season and his time with the big club in 2011, those numbers dip to .257 / .304 / .338. That ain't hackin' it.

At the plate, he flails wildly at pitches and shows little pitch recognition skills. I'd likely give him a pass on that if he had shown good OB skills in the minors, but he hasn't. He's a guy that needs to make contact at a high-rate to keep his OB% high enough to maintain value -- and when I watch Juan Francisco, I don't see a guy who will pick up enough base hits to post a the .290-.300 BA that will be required to OB .320-.330. I see a guy who is a far better bet to hover around .300. That's a guy I want no part of in my lineups at the hot corner.

Orenda
05-19-2011, 05:31 PM
Francisco looked good yesterday. Worked a nice walk vs the tough lefty Swindle. I like him a lot better than Frazier as the 3B of the future.

I almost commented on the walk last night. So far he's been just as likely to go deep as he has to draw a walk in his milb career.

I just wonder how much time NL Central teams, especially some of the veteran pitchers spend thinking about JF when he was coming off the bench. He has never really gotten to that 2nd time around the league point because of his limited AB's. If you were a pitcher and saw that a guy walked that infrequently, why would you come in the zone with any frequency? If he can hit sliders in the dirt 400 feet than you just have to tip your hat.

dougdirt
05-19-2011, 06:34 PM
I almost commented on the walk last night. So far he's been just as likely to go deep as he has to draw a walk in his milb career.

I just wonder how much time NL Central teams, especially some of the veteran pitchers spend thinking about JF when he was coming off the bench. He has never really gotten to that 2nd time around the league point because of his limited AB's. If you were a pitcher and saw that a guy walked that infrequently, why would you come in the zone with any frequency? If he can hit sliders in the dirt 400 feet than you just have to tip your hat.

If all pitchers had the control that you talk about, then you would have a point. But guys miss their targets often. And even someone as aggressive as Francisco can lay off of pitches at times. He has shown the ability to actually be quite patient in the last year and a half, even though it seems he still refuses to walk if he can with 3 balls in the count, he has worked pitchers better than his career would likely indicate.

The DARK
05-19-2011, 06:51 PM
If all pitchers had the control that you talk about, then you would have a point. But guys miss their targets often. And even someone as aggressive as Francisco can lay off of pitches at times. He has shown the ability to actually be quite patient in the last year and a half, even though it seems he still refuses to walk if he can with 3 balls in the count, he has worked pitchers better than his career would likely indicate.

If this is the case, he should work that out before he joins the majors full-time. It's the same thing that Votto excels at; he's a known HR threat, so pitchers are rarely going to give him anything good to hit. By readily showing that he can take that 4th ball and get on base in this dangerous lineup, he makes pitchers work to get him out. Taking the next step in plate patience is key for Francisco, and we'd be foolish to think of him as a finished product, even as he mashes at AAA. Otherwise, he's just an iffy defender who tries to hit lots of homers and misses on bad pitches (remind you of someone?)

dougdirt
05-19-2011, 07:05 PM
If this is the case, he should work that out before he joins the majors full-time. It's the same thing that Votto excels at; he's a known HR threat, so pitchers are rarely going to give him anything good to hit. By readily showing that he can take that 4th ball and get on base in this dangerous lineup, he makes pitchers work to get him out. Taking the next step in plate patience is key for Francisco, and we'd be foolish to think of him as a finished product, even as he mashes at AAA. Otherwise, he's just an iffy defender who tries to hit lots of homers and misses on bad pitches (remind you of someone?)

Oh, I agree with you completely. Francisco isn't ready to hit in the Majors day in and day out right now. I was merely adding to the discussion with what he does and doesn't do at the plate.

The DARK
05-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Oh, I agree with you completely. Francisco isn't ready to hit in the Majors day in and day out right now. I was merely adding to the discussion with what he does and doesn't do at the plate.

Gotcha. :thumbup:

GOYA
05-20-2011, 03:31 AM
Of course, that's with a grand total of 104 PAs -- and if you look at just last season and his time with the big club in 2011, those numbers dip to .257 / .304 / .338. That ain't hackin' it.

You dismiss his stats because of small sample size and then use a smaller sample size to illustrate your point.

One thing is for sure, Francisco isn't going to prove anything else in AAA. He needs to hit big league pitchers.

Caveat Emperor
05-20-2011, 01:47 PM
You dismiss his stats because of small sample size and then use a smaller sample size to illustrate your point.

One thing is for sure, Francisco isn't going to prove anything else in AAA. He needs to hit big league pitchers.

Everything is too small to judge, really -- but if I'm going to judge, I'm going to look at recent body of work over cup of coffee at the end of a dead season 2 years ago.

Watchin him play, I feel very comfortable saying that -- absent a change in both plate approach and swing type -- that he's not going to hit major league pitching with any regularity.

dougdirt
05-21-2011, 04:21 PM
You dismiss his stats because of small sample size and then use a smaller sample size to illustrate your point.

One thing is for sure, Francisco isn't going to prove anything else in AAA. He needs to hit big league pitchers.

Therein lies the problem. He isn't going to learn what he needs to learn in AAA because he can hit those guys, but he is going to get handled by MLB guys and not help out the Reds which might be the only way he gets that he needs to rework his plate approach.

mth123
05-21-2011, 04:58 PM
Therein lies the problem. He isn't going to learn what he needs to learn in AAA because he can hit those guys, but he is going to get handled by MLB guys and not help out the Reds which might be the only way he gets that he needs to rework his plate approach.

I'm not bullish on Francisco long term. But there are lots of pitchers in the majors who aren't much different than the ones he's ripping on in AAA. If matched up correctly, Francisco could provide 275 productive PAs against some of the pedestrian RH starters in the National Leagie while giving Rolen the rest he needs to stay healthy and productive into October.

That should be his role and I think he's ready to play it. I'd forget about giving him lots of PAs in AAA in hopes of him becoming something more. I just don't think guys change their spots much while they are being successful. Since Francisco is having his way with AAA pitching using his current approach, I don't see much more development in AAA. I'd wager sitting on the bench and playing part time with guys like Votto and Rolen in his ear would be better for him than ripping on AAA arms with the same relative ease.

lollipopcurve
05-21-2011, 06:56 PM
All Francisco needs in the bigs is reps. He'll have some bad streaks, but the big league game is not too big for him. Stick with him through a learning year or so, and he becomes a real nice offensive 3B, I think (the bigger concern is defense, IMO).

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2011, 03:39 AM
All Francisco needs in the bigs is reps. He'll have some bad streaks, but the big league game is not too big for him. Stick with him through a learning year or so, and he becomes a real nice offensive 3B, I think (the bigger concern is defense, IMO).

He'll need to hit close to .300 to have value as a major leaguer -- considering he'll add next to no value as a defender at 3B. I don't see any universe where Juan Francisco -- with his poor plate discipline and big swing -- hits close to that number.

lollipopcurve
05-22-2011, 09:00 AM
He'll need to hit close to .300 to have value as a major leaguer -- considering he'll add next to no value as a defender at 3B. I don't see any universe where Juan Francisco -- with his poor plate discipline and big swing -- hits close to that number.

People have been saying stuff like this about Francisco since he was in A ball. Forgive those of us who have confidence in his abilities if we feel like this analysis is a broken record.

He has improved is BB:K throughout the minors. In the major leagues, with the smaller strike zone, better hitting backgrounds, and the knowledge that he doesn't have to hit his way any higher on the organizational ladder, Francisco could very easily continue to improve that ratio. He has massive power and above average contact skills for a power guy, so pitchers will pitch him carefully.

Like I said, IMO all he needs is a manager who will keep running him out there, and I think Baker will do that. Do not underestimate the kind of damage a LH power hitter like Francisco can do in GAB. This is a young hitter with a very high ceiling who has never had a down year in the minors and who has dominated a few winter league sessions in the Dominican. You have to give a player with a track record like that a chance to show he can keep doing it, even as he, like almost all players his age, continues to improve.

bubbachunk
05-22-2011, 10:01 AM
Why do I get the creepy feeling that he is just left handed Brandon Larson?

The DARK
05-22-2011, 11:27 AM
All Francisco needs in the bigs is reps. He'll have some bad streaks, but the big league game is not too big for him. Stick with him through a learning year or so, and he becomes a real nice offensive 3B, I think (the bigger concern is defense, IMO).

The question is if those reps should be with the Reds in the middle of a tight division race. If we can expect him to continue to have to struggle, he may be worth more as trade bait than to the big club (where Rolen is signed for one more year, and Frazier may be a better 3B backup option).

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2011, 11:32 AM
In the major leagues, with the smaller strike zone, better hitting backgrounds, and the knowledge that he doesn't have to hit his way any higher on the organizational ladder, Francisco could very easily continue to improve that ratio.

You forgot that he'll also be facing much better pitching than he's ever seen -- including top-quality left-handed pitching. He shows poor plate-discipline against minor leaguers, how do you think he'll fare against guys who have access to major-league quality scouting reports and video breakdowns who were already better than the guys in AAA to begin with?

The DARK
05-22-2011, 11:35 AM
All Francisco needs in the bigs is reps. He'll have some bad streaks, but the big league game is not too big for him. Stick with him through a learning year or so, and he becomes a real nice offensive 3B, I think (the bigger concern is defense, IMO).

The question is if those reps should be with the Reds in the middle of a tight division race. If we can expect him to continue to have to struggle, he may be worth more as trade bait than to the big club (where Rolen is signed for one more year, and Frazier may be a better 3B backup option).