5/23/11 - Reds at Phillies

[Homer Bailey]

Stubbs 8, Janish 6, Votto 3, Phillips 4, Rolen 5, Bruce 9, Lewis 7, Hanigan 2, Arroyo RHP

Words can't express the awfulness here.

Gomes not starting against a LHP? Is he gone? Janish in the 2 hole vs. one of the best pitchers in the game? Lewis starting vs. a LHP? Seriously, what is going on???

[oneupper]

Won't matter.

Arroyo 1-5 5.54 ERA vs Philly. They kill him regularly.

[NJReds]

I'm not one to complain about lineups. But I don't get Janish batting second. I love his defense, but he bats 8th or 9th for every other team in the majors. How he bats second for the Reds is beyond me.

[757690]

For the record, Hamels shuts down righties as much as lefties, technically, just a bit more.

OPS allowed against:

RH - .692
LH - .710

[edabbs44]

Stubbs 8, Janish 6, Votto 3, Phillips 4, Rolen 5, Bruce 9, Lewis 7, Hanigan 2, Arroyo RHP

Words can't express the awfulness here.

Gomes not starting against a LHP? Is he gone? Janish in the 2 hole vs. one of the best pitchers in the game? Lewis starting vs. a LHP? Seriously, what is going on???

I wonder if Janish is getting the Gomes "this is your last chance" treatment before they have to do something with SS.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs 8, Janish 6, Votto 3, Phillips 4, Rolen 5, Bruce 9, Lewis 7, Hanigan 2, Arroyo RHP

Words can't express the awfulness here.

Gomes not starting against a LHP? Is he gone? Janish in the 2 hole vs. one of the best pitchers in the game? Lewis starting vs. a LHP? Seriously, what is going on???

I really wonder if they will change the lineup later and put Frazier in Lewis's place. They have not officially added Frazier yet as they have to make the corresponding roster move. After they do it would make much more sense to have Frazier facing a lefty rather than Lewis.

[klw]

I really wonder if they will change the lineup later and put Frazier in Lewis's place. They have not officially added Frazier yet as they have to make the corresponding roster move. After they do it would make much more sense to have Frazier facing a lefty rather than Lewis.

Dusty never plays guys on the first day they come up to the team.

[OldXOhio]

Stubbs 8, Janish 6, Votto 3, Phillips 4, Rolen 5, Bruce 9, Lewis 7, Hanigan 2, Arroyo RHP

Words can't express the awfulness here.

Gomes not starting against a LHP? Is he gone? Janish in the 2 hole vs. one of the best pitchers in the game? Lewis starting vs. a LHP? Seriously, what is going on???

Lewis is playing because he apparently has a decent track record against Hamels. Janish on the other hand doesn't have decent numbers period. So he hits 2nd with Lewis 7th????

And what exactly is the aversion to starting Heisey in LF?

[Reds1]

anyone have Philly line up? I think Chase Utley is coming off the DL today.

[oneupper]

Rollins 6
Utley 4
Polanco 5
Howard 3
Ibañez 7
Ruiz 2
Brown 9
Mayberry 8
Hamels 1

[oneupper]

As the REDS go quietly in the first, I was about to ask
"How long before we bail on this game?"
...but there was nobody here.

[The Voice of IH]

well, this has started well /sarcasm

[reds44]

We could be in a world of hurt 4 days from now.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I would have plunked Utley for that bush league stuff last year (pretending like he got hit) ... but I guess I'll take the out instead. Ha.

[kbrake]

Cool. Apparently weather alerts are more important than baseball.

[reds44]

We could be in a world of hurt 4 days from now.

2-0.

[The Voice of IH]

yep, this has started real well :help:

[Blitz Dorsey]

I'm not one to complain about lineups. But I don't get Janish batting second. I love his defense, but he bats 8th or 9th for every other team in the majors. How he bats second for the Reds is beyond me.

Even Janish's mom can see he shouldn't be batting second. Dusty Baker is the only person on the planet that would pat Paul Janish in the two hole in a Major League Baseball lineup.

[Blitz Dorsey]

We could be in a world of hurt 4 days from now.

2-0.

Or even 4 minutes from now.

[Red in Chicago]

"the damage done" i'm so sick of hearing that over the past week...

[Plus Plus]

Before everyone panics, can someone please remind me when the Phillies had a good offense in 2011? This team is far from being the 1927 Yankees.

[kbrake]

Before everyone panics, can someone please remind me when the Phillies had a good offense in 2011? This team is far from being the 1927 Yankees.

With Cole Hamels vs. the Reds it only takes 1 and they have 2.

[Plus Plus]

That seems a little doom and gloom to me.

[kbrake]

That seems a little doom and gloom to me.

You're right things are just frustrating right now.

[kaldaniels]

This team is pressing big time right now. The guys need to take a deep breath.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

At least we won't get no-hit. The thought already occured to me

[Gallen5862]

Can someone provide inning summaries or PBP? How did the Reds get behind 2-0?

[Blitz Dorsey]

Wow that was close. I've seen the replay 5 times and I still can't tell. I'll take it though.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Can someone provide inning summaries or PBP? How did the Reds get behind 2-0?

Polanco 2-run jack.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Way to battle back Bronson. 2-0 Phils going to the third.

[Captain Hook]

Arroyo gets out of a 2nd & 3rd no out jam.Nice job BA!

[Gallen5862]

Thanks Blitz Dorsey.

[Captain Hook]

Polanco 2-run jack.

Polanco 2-run jack was in the 1st.Bronson got out of his 2nd inning jam without allowing a run.

[kaldaniels]

Our awful Reds are 5-5 in their last 10.

The unbeatable Phillies and their aces are 4-6. Remember that thru Thursday.

[kaldaniels]

Arroyo with a C- bunt but Hanigan gets a bad jump and the Phils get the fielders choice at 2nd. Arroyo on 1st, 1 out.

[Captain Hook]

Our awful Reds are 5-5 in their last 10.

The unbeatable Phillies and their aces are 4-6. Remember that thru Thursday.

Both teams are garbage.

[Blitz Dorsey]

More greatness out of Janish at the plate. Maybe Dusty should bat him in the two hole. (More like the black hole.)

[alloverjr]

Just like going to the dentist.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Paul janish continues to underwhelm

[Captain Hook]

After the lead off walk the Reds manage to accomplish nothing.Yes Janish contributed to that but Arroyo and Stubbs were just as bad with a failed bunt and another K.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Paul janish continues to underwhelm

It might be time to move him to third in the lineup. Perhaps cleanup.

At least he walks a lot (5 times the entire season thus far).

Hopefully Cozart is the long-term answer at short, but I'm not even close to convinced he is. Janish definitely is not.

[kaldaniels]

After the lead off walk the Reds manage to accomplish nothing.Yes Janish contributed to that but Arroyo and Stubbs were just as bad with a failed bunt and another K.

Stubbs has been hacking in both AB's.

[757690]

The Reds will not lose one single game because Janish is batting second. They might lose games because he is in the lineup, but not because of where he is hitting.

[kaldaniels]

The Reds will not lose one single game because Janish is batting second. They might lose games because he is in the lineup, but not because of where he is hitting.

Who knows. But personally I could see it costing them a game at some point.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

This game is over already. I have zero confidence the reds can score 4 runs tonight - even in GABP East

[kaldaniels]

Arroyo rolls up a double play ball to Ibanez to end the inning. But wait...the Reds are playing the shift on Raul Ibanez...into LF it goes. 3-0 Phils.

[Captain Hook]

When everything is going your way that's a DP.When you've lost 5 in a row and nothing's going right it's a hit and another run scored.

[Red in Chicago]

bronson's got a whole lotta nothin'...

[CrackerJack]

Philly's the last team the Reds needed to run into right now.

And Arroyo just looks absolutely awful. Sigh...

[Blitz Dorsey]

The Reds will not lose one single game because Janish is batting second. They might lose games because he is in the lineup, but not because of where he is hitting.

You have no idea if this is true or not. I can't say I'm absolutely sure it would cost them a game (or three) and you can't say you're absolutely sure it wouldn't. Neither of us know for sure.

But it definitely COULD cost them a win. Janish can't hit and can't get on base. But he's likely going to get more ABs than a better hitter in a particular game if you bat him second. That could cost you a win very easily. If you need a punch-and-judy hitter like Janish in your lineup due to defense, you bat him eighth. Only Dusty (who I otherwise like) can't see this.

[kaldaniels]

Thom's not saying it, but he is "just saying" the mono may still be bothering Arroyo.

Haha Howard can't score on that fly ball.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Our opening day starter is in AAA. Our No. 2 starter can't get anybody out. And it's May 23 and we don't have a starter that's pitched more than 7 innings.

[reds44]

Our opening day starter is in AAA. Our No. 2 starter can't get anybody out. And it's May 23 and we don't have a starter that's pitched more than 7 innings.
That's not true. Cueto pitched into the 8th this year.

[Red in Chicago]

nail meet coffin

[kaldaniels]

That's not true. Cueto pitched into the 8th this year.

Never let facts get in the way of a good narrative 44.

5-0 Phils

[Blitz Dorsey]

Well, time to tuck my kids into bed. Goodnight everyone. It's been real.

Glad to see the Reds have taken the last week off from playing good baseball. *Extremely frustrated*

[reds44]

Haha Maloney is warming up.

[kaldaniels]

Haha Maloney is warming up.

Maybe he'll give that Royals reliever who gave up 14 a run for his money. :laugh:

[Blitz Dorsey]

Our opening day starter is in AAA. Our No. 2 starter can't get anybody out. And it's May 23 and we don't have a starter that's pitched more than 7 innings.

Our shortstop who can't hit has managed to draw a whopping FIVE walks all season.

Whoops, I said I was going to tuck my kids into bed. OK, enough Reds for tonight. Too frustrating.

[Red in Chicago]

why does it take thom until the bottom of the 3rd to discuss the roster moves today? most of us don't get to hear / see reds live...

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Never let facts get in the way of a good narrative 44.

5-0 Phils

Yea, I'm really exaggerating how awful this starting pitching has been. So Cueto got into the 8th once. He also can't beat the pirates at home.

Nice job doing nothing to improve this team all winter Walt!

[kaldaniels]

why does it take thom until the bottom of the 3rd to discuss the roster moves today? most of us don't get to hear / see reds live...

Anything "controversial" or "negative to the franchise" is always brushed under the rug I've noticed.

See the Leake incident.

[reds44]

Yea, I'm really exaggerating how awful this starting pitching has been. So Cueto got into the 8th once. He also can't beat the pirates at home.

Nice job doing nothing to improve this team all winter Walt!
Cueto is 2-1 with a 1.45 ERA right now and that's who you target?

[reds44]

Anything "controversial" or "negative to the franchise" is always brushed under the rug I've noticed.

See the Leake incident.
Speaking of Leake he's given up 3 runs in 2 innings tonight in AAA.

[757690]

You have no idea if this is true or not. I can't say I'm absolutely sure it would cost them a game (or three) and you can't say you're absolutely sure it wouldn't. Neither of us know for sure.

But it definitely COULD cost them a win. Janish can't hit and can't get on base. But he's likely going to get more ABs than a better hitter in a particular game if you bat him second. That could cost you a win very easily. If you need a punch-and-judy hitter like Janish in your lineup due to defense, you bat him eighth. Only Dusty (who I otherwise like) can't see this.

1. Batting order really doesn't have much effect on runs scored.
2. Janish will get pinch hit for in any crucial situation.
3. Games are decided by a collection of factors, the most important ones are who plays and who doesn't. Factors as small as where players are batting do not decide games on their own.

[kaldaniels]

Cueto is 2-1 with a 1.45 ERA right now and that's who you target?

When the facts get drawn out, you gotta fight to the death. Pull no punches :D

[kaldaniels]

9 to 0

[reds44]

Ehehehehe we're back to being the Reds.

[Red in Chicago]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Cueto is 2-1 with a 1.45 ERA right now and that's who you target?

Not targeting Cueto. Him and Bailey are the best of this bunch.

This team is flat-out bad.

[reds44]

This team is screwing around with too many bad pieces right now.

Sooner or later Jocketty and Baker will realize they need to change some stuff. Like the SS, LFer, and bullpen.

[kaldaniels]

1. Batting order really doesn't have much effect on runs scored.
2. Janish will get pinch hit for in any crucial situation.
3. Games are decided by a collection of factors, the most important ones are who plays and who doesn't. Factors as small as where players are batting do not decide games on their own.

So a small factor like if Votto bats 9th, would never decide a game?

[Quatitos]

Looks like Arroyo decided tonight would be his annual throw away game. Not a good time for that.

[CrackerJack]

When the facts get drawn out, you gotta fight to the death. Pull no punches :D

I don't think mentioning that "one" starter in "one" game has gone past the 7th all year so far changes his original point any though.

[Reds Fanatic]

I think Arroyo has bigger problems than just Mono. He is taking an absolute beating. This reminds me of the game in Toronto a few years back.

[Oxilon]

Sucks the season is ending soon. :D

[reds44]

Meh Arroyo will be fine. Least of the Reds worries right now.

[kaldaniels]

I don't think mentioning that "one" starter in "one" game has gone past the 7th all year so far changes his original point any though.

Really it doesn't, but if you post a fact and it is wrong, just acknowledge it and move on. Don't try to knock the guy who pointed it out (not me) down a notch.

[kaldaniels]

Meh Arroyo will be fine. Least of the Reds worries right now.

I would agree with that.

[kaldaniels]

The thought that bothered me most today was that it amazed me how fast we have blown threw our starting pitching "surplus". May 23, and we are probably gonna start Chad Reinicke on Friday...didn't see that coming.

[Quatitos]

Can we bring up Leake for Volquez's next start, he will have passed the 10 days by then won't he?

[BCubb2003]

1. Batting order really doesn't have much effect on runs scored.

I understand the reasoning, but I'd like to see the evidence. It just seems like the chances of a big inning would be greater when you have a string of Stubbs, Phillips, Votto, Rolen and Bruce than when there are rest periods in between for the pitcher.

[reds44]

Can we bring up Leake for Volquez's next start, he will have passed the 10 days by then won't he?
Mike Leake has given up 3 runs in 2 innings in AAA tonight and currently has an ERA of 9.82.

Have fun with that one.

[kaldaniels]

Can we bring up Leake for Volquez's next start, he will have passed the 10 days by then won't he?

I'm pretty sure, but it sounds like the front office doesn't view that as the best option.

[Quatitos]

Mike Leake has given up 3 runs in 2 innings in AAA tonight and currently has an ERA of 9.82.

Have fun with that one.

Oh I'm not advocating it, just wondering if thats one of the options or not.

[reds44]

Arroyo threw 78 pitches in 2.2 innings.

That's awesome.

[Matt700wlw]

This could be a long 4 days in Philly, having to face to Hammels, Halladay, and Lee in 3 of the games.

Hopefully San Diego can help out against St. Louis, or the Reds could be in quite a hole come June.

[Quatitos]

I personally would just throw Lecure into Volquez's next start, since he is on the rest schedule for that start now with how much he pitched after Volquez left. Then bring Willis up after he has healed up.

[kaldaniels]

We all love BP personally I think...but I don't like seeing the smile down 9-0.

Shoot me. :D

[reds44]

Yeah I'd throw LeCure and bring up Boxberger from AA and put him in Maloney's spot in the pen.

[reds44]

Josh Hamilton went yard in his first AB back from the DL.

[kaldaniels]

Good grief Bruce.

[reds44]

Dat boy is good.

That's a start.

[kaldaniels]

9-3

[BCubb2003]

Bruce owns Hamels.

[kaldaniels]

For those scoring at home, Ben Grieve II puts the Reds on the board with a 3 run bomb.

[Playadlc]

Bruce is on fire.

This one isn't over yet.

[Red in Chicago]

does bruce look like he's bulked up some?

[Quatitos]

For those scoring at home, Ben Grieve II puts the Reds on the board with a 3 run bomb.

:D

[reds44]

Make this crap in LF stop.

And eventually people will accept Bruce as a streak hitter, and overall a really good player.

[kaldaniels]

:D

Just can't help myself.

[BCubb2003]

Bruce must have taken Volquez's comments to heart.

[reds44]

Well at least we get the top of the order next inning.

Maybe Stubbs will double so Janish can bunt

[edabbs44]

This team is screwing around with too many bad pieces right now.

Sooner or later Jocketty and Baker will realize they need to change some stuff. Like the SS, LFer, and bullpen.

Seriously...Gomes, Janish and the pen are all killing Cincy tonight.

[reds44]

Seriously...Gomes, Janish and the pen are all killing Cincy tonight.
Has nothing to do with tonight. I'm speaking in general.

[kaldaniels]

Hamels struggling with location all night. Should have had 4 to 5 BB by now.

[Quatitos]

Wonder if that long sit on the bench messed with Hamels.

[edabbs44]

Make this crap in LF stop.

And eventually people will accept Bruce as a streak hitter, and overall a really good player.

I think most accept him as a really good player, but he has been somewhat streaky over the last 2 seasons. Some pretty bad months and some really good ones. If he can be more consistent over the rest of the year he should be able to shake it.

[kaldaniels]

Jose Bautista hit HR number 19.

[757690]

I understand the reasoning, but I'd like to see the evidence. It just seems like the chances of a big inning would be greater when you have a string of Stubbs, Phillips, Votto, Rolen and Bruce than when there are rest periods in between for the pitcher.

Well according to batting order calculators, switching Votto and the pitcher should result in an extra 12 runs scored over the course of a full season. That would be around one win. Switching Janish and Lewis would have significantly less effect.

[edabbs44]

Well according to batting order calculators, switching Votto and the pitcher should result in an extra 12 runs scored over the course of a full season. That would be around one win. Switching Janish and Lewis would have significantly less effect.

Seriously...the entire batting order thing is ridiculous. Gomes is now somewhat gone, we have to figure something else to blame the poor play on.

[Quatitos]

Anyone know off the top of their head when the Willis DL is retroactive to, or was he hurt yesterday?

[kaldaniels]

Well according to batting order calculators, switching Votto and the pitcher should result in an extra 12 runs scored over the course of a full season. That would be around one win. Switching Janish and Lewis would have significantly less effect.

If you switched Votto and the pitcher I bet Joey would have 75 (just a guess) or so less PA than if he batted 3rd. Factor that along with the point that you are removing him from the meat of the lineup...I gotta think that will cost the Reds more than 12 runs.

[reds44]

Stubbs!!

[Quatitos]

Stubbs!!

Geeze how delayed am I, that just happened for me.

[edabbs44]

If you switched Votto and the pitcher I bet Joey would have 75 (just a guess) or so less PA than if he batted 3rd. Factor that along with the point that you are removing him from the meat of the lineup...I gotta think that will cost the Reds more than 12 runs.

It would also get more people on base for Stubbs and...Janish.

[reds44]

Stubbs didn't get that one lol.

[reds44]

They need to stop bringing up Maloney. He's human batting practice.

[edabbs44]

Stubbs didn't get that one lol.

Stubbs played the wall really well on Howard's and looked lost on Ibanez's. Though it really didn't matter anyway, he was way off.

[reds44]

http://baseball-pitching-machines.org/images/first-pitch-original-0001.jpg

[edabbs44]

They need to stop bringing up Maloney. He's human batting practice.

Yeah, never understood the RZ love for him.

[Quatitos]

Janish can't buy a hit right now.

[OldXOhio]

Janish can't buy a hit right now.

Has something to do w/ ability I'm guessing.

[Quatitos]

Has something to do w/ ability I'm guessing.

If you want to be delusional then sure :p

[reds44]

Or lack of money.

[Quatitos]

Or lack of money.

Ibanez is not interested in any of that league minimum money.

[edabbs44]

Janish can't buy a hit right now.

.OPS down to .530 and 2nd worst in the NL above only Josh Thole. Well below the Taveras line and cannot even see the CPatt line at this stage.

[OldXOhio]

.OPS down to .530 and 2nd worst in the NL above only Josh Thole. Well below the Taveras line and cannot even see the CPatt line at this stage.

Has a major leaguer with a .530 OPS this far into the season ever batted second?

[edabbs44]

Has a major leaguer with a .530 OPS this far into the season ever batted second?

LaRoche hit 5th the other night with a .546.

[OldXOhio]

LaRoche hit 5th the other night with a .546.

I stand corrected.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

When a guy like Fred Lewis is starting in LF five times a week, you know your team is in trouble.

Fix LF. Now.

[kaldaniels]

Janish at 0.1 WAR for the year. Another poor night at the plate tonight, and we may be looking at replacement-level production so far. (as if 0.1 isn't replacement level to begin with).

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Janish at 0.1 WAR for the year. Another poor night at the plate tonight, and we may be looking at replacement-level production so far. (as if 0.1 isn't replacement level to begin with).

I don't think think Cozart could do worse.

[OldXOhio]

When a guy like Fred Lewis is starting in LF five times a week, you know your team is in trouble.

Fix LF. Now.

In time. Dusty says Gomes will get going. Didn't you hear?

[edabbs44]

Janish at 0.1 WAR for the year. Another poor night at the plate tonight, and we may be looking at replacement-level production so far. (as if 0.1 isn't replacement level to begin with).

.1 WAR with a ridiculously high UZR, like way too high to be real.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

When Janish steps to the plate, I just look at it like he's a pitcher so I don't expect anything.

We just have two pitchers in the lineup. One bats 2nd. Sweet.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

When a guy like Fred Lewis is starting in LF five times a week, you know your team is in trouble.

Fix LF. Now.

The time to really address LF was in the offseason. It was painfully obvious that LF was the area that needed significant upgrade if the Reds were serious about trying to take the next step.

Walt, of course, did nothing. In fact, he seemed to relish any opportunity to flat-out deny that they were involved in any trade discussions. It was disheartening, to say the least. It's May now and it's nothing short of maddening watching this team's predictable failures.

[Quatitos]

Has a major leaguer with a .530 OPS this far into the season ever batted second?

First one I could find (after looking up 4 people) was Alex Gonzalez in 2000.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

By the way, coming into the game Janish had a .265 OBP (and dropping like Jonny Gomes BA every night).

Wow.

[Quatitos]

.1 WAR with a ridiculously high UZR, like way too high to be real.

A 3.5 is too high to be real this far into the season?

[OldXOhio]

Had to step away for a few minutes? Have the Phillies scored again yet?

[Red in Chicago]

frazier up

[Red in Chicago]

Had to step away for a few minutes? Have the Phillies scored again yet?

still 10 - 3

[reds44]

Think Todd is a little nervous? lol

[Quatitos]

That made the game a little more enjoyable.

[reds44]

Yonder>Frazier

IT'S A JOKE PEOPLE RELAX

[reds44]

The time to really address LF was in the offseason. It was painfully obvious that LF was the area that needed significant upgrade if the Reds were serious about trying to take the next step.

Walt, of course, did nothing. In fact, he seemed to relish any opportunity to flat-out deny that they were involved in any trade discussions. It was disheartening, to say the least. It's May now and it's nothing short of maddening watching this team's predictable failures.

http://www.indyweek.com/images/blogimages/2010/04/26/1272314997-catsalon.jpg



I got this.

[reds44]

I am much more worried about SS than LF. The Reds have a lot of guys who could come up and play LF right now (Heisey, Alonso, Frazier, Sappelt when he's healthy). The Reds have precisely nothing at SS.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I am much more worried about SS than LF. The Reds have a lot of guys who could come up and play LF right now (Heisey, Alonso, Frazier, Sappelt when he's healthy). The Reds have precisely nothing at SS.

Yep, and I feel better about all of those options in LF than I do Fred Lewis and Jonny Gomes.

[reds44]

Yep, and I feel better about all of those options in LF than I do Fred Lewis and Jonny Gomes.
As do I. All 4 of them, in fact.

The Reds are waisting their time with what they're doing in LF. Eventually the figure it out and we will all ask what took them so long.

SS is something that will be addressed via trade. Hopefully Walt can get the big fish.

[OldXOhio]

It's May

[edabbs44]

A 3.5 is too high to be real this far into the season?

uzr/150 of around 25 right now. Double what the best in baseball was last year.

[edabbs44]

I am much more worried about SS than LF. The Reds have a lot of guys who could come up and play LF right now (Heisey, Alonso, Frazier, Sappelt when he's healthy). The Reds have precisely nothing at SS.

You have a ton of faith in young guys having early success.

Ask Jay Bruce, the #1 prospect in baseball, how long it took him to get to where he is.

[Screwball]

Won't matter.

Arroyo 1-5 5.54 ERA vs Philly. They kill him regularly.

Prophetic.

On a side note, after the Reds' loss tonight and the Brewers win (they're up 6-1 on the Nationals in the 7th), Milwaukee will have tied us for 2nd place. And honestly, given the upcoming matchups, it might only get worse before it gets better.

Yuck.

[757690]

Just for the record...

On this date in 1975, the BRM was 22-20.

[OldXOhio]

As do I. All 4 of them, in fact.

The Reds are waisting their time with what they're doing in LF. Eventually the figure it out and we will all ask what took them so long.

SS is something that will be addressed via trade. Hopefully Walt can get the big fish.

Hanley?

[Quatitos]

uzr/150 of around 25 right now. Double what the best in baseball was last year.

Go look at his uzr/150 for third base.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[Tony Cloninger]

Just for the record...

On this date in 1975, the BRM was 22-20.


I know the BRM....I saw the BRM.... Sir, I can tell you with all honesty, this Reds team is NO BRM. ;)

[reds44]

@DatDudeBP Maybe Volquez was right! We do need to score more runs! LMAO... """""Believe Reds Fans""""

[757690]

I know the BRM....I saw the BRM.... Sir, I can tell you with all honesty, this Reds team is NO BRM. ;)

Neither was the BRM on May 23, 1975. ;)

I also could post around 100 examples of teams that were doing worse on this date than the current Reds that went on to make the playoffs.

[mth123]

Neither was the BRM on May 23, 1975. ;)

I also could post around 100 examples of teams that were doing worse on this date than the current Reds that went on to make the playoffs.

Two World Series appearances, another Division title, 3 MVP awards from two different players, four 95+ win seasons and several multiple time All Stars and Gold Glovers in the 5 previous years suggests that comparing this Reds team to that one might be a bad idea. They'd been the BRM for 5 years already and there was much more reason to have confidence that they had a run of high level success in them than we have with this team.

This team is an 85 to 90 win team with question marks in many areas. Its what they were when last season ended. Its what they were in the winter when improvements weren't made. Its what they were when they were sweeping the Cards and its what they are in the midst of a 6 game losing streak.

My real issue is the idea, that many have, that a team like that is good enough or that all the question marks will come through as positives and that improvements or the addition of a sure thing or two aren't necessary. They were and are necessary to go to the next level and everything they need is not available inside the organization.

[Ron Madden]

Man, I hate losing streaks.

[757690]

Two World Series appearances, another Division title, 3 MVP awards from two different players, four 95+ win seasons and several multiple time All Stars and Gold Glovers in the 5 previous years suggests that comparing this Reds team to that one might be a bad idea. They'd been the BRM for 5 years already and there was much more reason to have confidence that they had a run of high level success in them than we have with this team.

This team is an 85 to 90 win team with question marks in many areas. Its what they were when last season ended. Its what they were in the winter when improvements weren't made. Its what they were when they were sweeping the Cards and its what they are in the midst of a 6 game losing streak.

My real issue is the idea, that many have, that a team like that is good enough or that all the question marks will come through as positives and that improvements or the addition of a sure thing or two aren't necessary. They were and are necessary to go to the next level and everything they need is not available inside the organization.

First, this team doesn't have to become the BRM in order for that fact to be meaningful, and applicable to the present situation.

Second, I have to wonder if the 1975 Reds make the playoffs with Vukovich at third and Foster on the bench. The point being that there is plenty of time for this team to make adjustments and improve, which really was the only point I was trying to make.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Now, I didn't get to watch the game, but reading this thread it looks like Maloney was horrible. But I'm seeing the stat line as 3.1 ip, 3 hits and 1 run allowed (HR). How is this bad? It's certainly not great, but against the Phillies lineup, 3 hits ain't shabby IMO. So how the Pen screwed this game up I'll never know. This is all on Bronson. And no, I'm not worried about Arroyo. He'll always have a game or 2 like this every year. But 9 times out of 10, he bounces back strong.

And btw....LOVING Bruce at the plate lately.

[Tony Cloninger]

First, this team doesn't have to become the BRM in order for that fact to be meaningful, and applicable to the present situation.

Second, I have to wonder if the 1975 Reds make the playoffs with Vukovich at third and Foster on the bench. The point being that there is plenty of time for this team to make adjustments and improve, which really was the only point I was trying to make.

I was looking at Baseball Reference and I just happened to go into 1973. Saw that in about 50 games... OAK was under .500 and Cincy was barely over.

Those teams obviously made changes (Finley would make tons of trades from 1972-74 to fill out his bench) when trades were easier to make but they would also bring up players from Triple A.

I wish I had more recent examples obviously and I am not doubting that things can turn around .... but what trades can they make and they seem reluctant to trade too many minor leaguers beacuse they know they need those to sustain the future.

IF they believed in Alonso, Frazier or Francisco....they would be here by now and starting in LF. Baker can barely commit to saying he will start Heisey.
It will be interesting thing to watch as they hook their horses to their guys especially Gomes ...who does not deserve this kind of loyalty, in regards to starting. Bench guy...fine. But they act like he is Eric Davis in 1990 or Greg Vaughn in 1999...guys with good pedigrees who the team was counting on those years but struggled early and did not come on until late in the year.

Pitching wise....they have depth but how good is it to sustain itself if Volquez does not turn it around or if mono and just plain law of averages catches up to Arroyo? It's like they left it all in that sweep of STL.

[Screwball]

Neither was the BRM on May 23, 1975. ;)

I also could post around 100 examples of teams that were doing worse on this date than the current Reds that went on to make the playoffs.


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