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View Full Version : Does Mag't have the balls to make the tough moves



brm7675
05-27-2011, 03:40 PM
I really wonder if Walt, the owner and even Dusty have it in them to make the tough call and make the tough move. I mean i really think they are either to soft or don't want to rock the boat, but the following things should happen:

1. Go to Scott Rolen and either ask him to retire, or ask him to step away from being the everyday 3rd basemen and bring up Todd Frazier and see what he can do there.

2. DFA Gomes, it's just that simple there is zero reason to keep this man on this team.

3. DFA Edgar and bring up Chris V, he is younger and can provide much more depth to the roster

4. Trade for a power hitter. Do whatever it takes, move whomever you need and get another bat in here.

But I am not sure if our mag't has the willingness to make these bold moves...

VottoFan54
05-27-2011, 03:57 PM
I really wonder if Walt, the owner and even Dusty have it in them to make the tough call and make the tough move. I mean i really think they are either to soft or don't want to rock the boat, but the following things should happen:

1. Go to Scott Rolen and either ask him to retire, or ask him to step away from being the everyday 3rd basemen and bring up Todd Frazier and see what he can do there.

2. DFA Gomes, it's just that simple there is zero reason to keep this man on this team.

3. DFA Edgar and bring up Chris V, he is younger and can provide much more depth to the roster

4. Trade for a power hitter. Do whatever it takes, move whomever you need and get another bat in here.

But I am not sure if our mag't has the willingness to make these bold moves...

Scott Rolen is still an average NL third baseman, as stated in the veteran leadership thread and he needs to remain at that spot. I expect him to continue to improve with his season and end with an OPS right around .780 which is better than Frazier would probably do.

Why in the word would you DFA Edgar and bring up Chris? What if Chris fails and than you no longer have a starting SS since you just decided to cut every single position player that is currently in a slump.

Hillsdale87
05-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Asking Rolen to retire is not going to improve the team. He is not going to be a star this year, but he's going to put up decent numbers and play great defense. I like Frazier for the future and would like to see him get some time this year, but he's not going to be as valuable to the team this year as Rolen.

And there's no reason to get rid of Edgar for Valaika. Cairo and Janish can already play all around the infield so there's no need for more versatility. Plus, he's not going to be much of an upgrade over Edgar at bat. Edgar's in a slump, but he'll come out of it and have a decent year. There's no guarantee of that with Valaika.

brm7675
05-27-2011, 04:25 PM
Scott Rolen is still an average NL third baseman, as stated in the veteran leadership thread and he needs to remain at that spot. I expect him to continue to improve with his season and end with an OPS right around .780 which is better than Frazier would probably do.

Why in the word would you DFA Edgar and bring up Chris? What if Chris fails and than you no longer have a starting SS since you just decided to cut every single position player that is currently in a slump.

I didn't say cut Janish, just Edgar, and there is zero chance Chris could do any worse the Edgar, PLUS he is not only able but willing to play multiple positions, something Edgar refuses to do.

As for Rolen, he is old and getting older, he is not an everyday player at this point.

brm7675
05-27-2011, 04:27 PM
Asking Rolen to retire is not going to improve the team. He is not going to be a star this year, but he's going to put up decent numbers and play great defense. I like Frazier for the future and would like to see him get some time this year, but he's not going to be as valuable to the team this year as Rolen.

And there's no reason to get rid of Edgar for Valaika. Cairo and Janish can already play all around the infield so there's no need for more versatility. Plus, he's not going to be much of an upgrade over Edgar at bat. Edgar's in a slump, but he'll come out of it and have a decent year. There's no guarantee of that with Valaika.

Why do people think old aging players are all of a sudden going to find the fountain of youth and get better? Unless they are "juicing" they are NOT going to get better. We need to stop "livin in da past" and accept that Rolen and Edgar have played their best ball in the past and their numbers are not going to "rebound". People wake up, this is a young man's game (unless you juice) and it's time to stop this idea that old men play better then young kids...

Redsnake
05-27-2011, 04:34 PM
No

Krawhitham
05-27-2011, 04:41 PM
Rolen could still be a force if he played 4 days a week

BEETTLEBUG
05-27-2011, 04:50 PM
True 4 days a week would work. Would you as a fan like that or you just say that?

brm7675
05-27-2011, 05:00 PM
Rolen could still be a force if he played 4 days a week

What do you consider a 'force"?

Hillsdale87
05-27-2011, 05:17 PM
Why do people think old aging players are all of a sudden going to find the fountain of youth and get better? Unless they are "juicing" they are NOT going to get better. We need to stop "livin in da past" and accept that Rolen and Edgar have played their best ball in the past and their numbers are not going to "rebound". People wake up, this is a young man's game (unless you juice) and it's time to stop this idea that old men play better then young kids...

I don't expect them to put up monster numbers. I just don't see them being as bad as they've been so far for the rest of the year. Even at his current pace, with his defense, Rolen is probably an average 3rd baseman. Edgar has been bad, but he's not going to keep hitting 2-33. I expect him to hit about .260 - .270, which I don't think is unreasonable to expect

Natty Redlocks
05-27-2011, 05:46 PM
You know what would be really bold? Get your advice from internet knowitalls

brm7675
05-27-2011, 06:14 PM
I don't expect them to put up monster numbers. I just don't see them being as bad as they've been so far for the rest of the year. Even at his current pace, with his defense, Rolen is probably an average 3rd baseman. Edgar has been bad, but he's not going to keep hitting 2-33. I expect him to hit about .260 - .270, which I don't think is unreasonable to expect

So don't you think Chris V. could come close to that and be able to play multiple positions?

Vottomatic
05-27-2011, 08:44 PM
I really wonder if Walt, the owner and even Dusty have it in them to make the tough call and make the tough move. I mean i really think they are either to soft or don't want to rock the boat, but the following things should happen:

1. Go to Scott Rolen and either ask him to retire, or ask him to step away from being the everyday 3rd basemen and bring up Todd Frazier and see what he can do there.

Seriously? You're joking right? He shouldn't be batting 4th. He should be batting 6th. But he is our best option at 3B, hands down.


2. DFA Gomes, it's just that simple there is zero reason to keep this man on this team.

I'd have no problem with DFA'ing Gomes. But the players would. This would seriously mess with team chemistry.


3. DFA Edgar and bring up Chris V, he is younger and can provide much more depth to the roster

Renteria hasn't been bad. Valaika did nothing when up earlier in the season.


4. Trade for a power hitter. Do whatever it takes, move whomever you need and get another bat in here.

I said it in the offseason. Votto needs protection from the 4-hole. Bruce should be batting 4th, but Dusty won't do the lefty lefty thing in the batting order. He likes Rolen (righty) in between those two which provides no protection for Votto. Beltran would be a nice pickup but they can't afford him.


But I am not sure if our mag't has the willingness to make these bold moves...

I don't think we'll see any moves. This team has it's highest payroll ever at $80M and won't be adding any. They will go to war with what they have and nothing more.

R_Webb18
05-27-2011, 11:31 PM
rolen would be GREAT if he batted like 7th but we would need anthor bat for that.

Redeye fly
05-28-2011, 01:00 AM
I really wonder if Walt, the owner and even Dusty have it in them to make the tough call and make the tough move. I mean i really think they are either to soft or don't want to rock the boat, but the following things should happen:

1. Go to Scott Rolen and either ask him to retire, or ask him to step away from being the everyday 3rd basemen and bring up Todd Frazier and see what he can do there.

You don't ask Scott Rolen to retire in May. As a matter of fact, with the career Scott Rolen has enjoyed, he's entitled to retire when he wants to. Regarding the latter option, you also don't bring up young unproven players to "see what they can do" in May. You do that when you're out of the race in August and September.

2. DFA Gomes, it's just that simple there is zero reason to keep this man on this team.

No one here would disagree with that. Though Vottomatic makes a fair point that the players would.

3. DFA Edgar and bring up Chris V, he is younger and can provide much more depth to the roster

Dude, does Renteria have pictures of you or something? You have a serious Edgar hate and Chris V man love thing going on here. Regardless of whether or not he's younger, younger does not always equal better. Besides that, if you wanted to get rid of Renteria that would be one thing. But don't, don't DON'T DFA him. He's a veteran SS with a good resume and some clutch postseason moments. Some team is going to have an interest in him even if his best days are behind him. You're not going to get a lot for him, but you should be able to get something, even if you have to get creative and package him with other parts. Heck, he's better now than Royce Clayton was for most of his career, and he was part of that lovely trade in 2006 with the Nationals.

4. Trade for a power hitter. Do whatever it takes, move whomever you need and get another bat in here.

Then see the above. I'm not saying Renteria will bring in a power hitter. He won't by himself... at least not a proven one. But Renteria and some other players might. I'm just not keen on simply DFA'ing players that other clubs might be willing to give you something for. I'll guarantee you if you look hard enough you can find a taker for Renteria.
But I am not sure if our mag't has the willingness to make these bold moves...

Redeye fly
05-28-2011, 01:07 AM
Why do people think old aging players are all of a sudden going to find the fountain of youth and get better? Unless they are "juicing" they are NOT going to get better. We need to stop "livin in da past" and accept that Rolen and Edgar have played their best ball in the past and their numbers are not going to "rebound". People wake up, this is a young man's game (unless you juice) and it's time to stop this idea that old men play better then young kids...

We also don't know if Frazier and Valakia at their "young man's best" are better or even as good as Rolen and Renteria even at this stage of their careers.

When Rolen came off the DL he was hotter than a firecracker. Now he's cold. Yes he's old and aging and not going to produce the numbers he did with the Cardinals or Phillies. But he's been on both a recent hot streak and a current cold streak, something all players pretty much go through, young and old.

webbbj
05-28-2011, 02:06 AM
why are people in such a rush? the team is fine and built to win long term and in the present just let it happen.

The reds will run the organization into the ground trying to make desperation moves every year just to get back to the playoffs.

Just let that talent continue to mold and it will be a lot easier making moves going forward.

brm7675
05-28-2011, 05:58 PM
We also don't know if Frazier and Valakia at their "young man's best" are better or even as good as Rolen and Renteria even at this stage of their careers.

When Rolen came off the DL he was hotter than a firecracker. Now he's cold. Yes he's old and aging and not going to produce the numbers he did with the Cardinals or Phillies. But he's been on both a recent hot streak and a current cold streak, something all players pretty much go through, young and old.

It would take an incredible lot for Valakia to be as bad as Edgar. Just the sheer fact that he can and will play multiple positions makes him a better player to have on the bench then Edgar. As for Rolen, his body just can't play a full season so why not play him say 4 days a week and play Fraizer 3? Plus again Frazier can play multiple positions.