PDA

View Full Version : Stubbs and the called third strike



malcontent
06-01-2011, 04:49 AM
Just wondering, is there another player in MLB that is called out on strikes as much as Stubbs, especially on 0-2 and 1-2 counts?

With his speed, just getting the ball in play could easily mean a hit.

Not protecting the plate on those counts constitutes a major failing, IMO, on his part and on the part of the coaching staff.

Add that to his outright refusal to attempt more than one bunt every 50 games, and somebody isn't doing his job.

jhiller21
06-01-2011, 06:13 AM
Stubbs is going to K a lot, it's just the way he hits. I agree the bunt is a good option/idea, but he has a hard enough time hitting soft ground balls. He could up his OBP by 20 points if he could just chop a few per week up the left field line.

Stubbs either smokes the ball or misses it. It is what it is. And he's good, don't get me wrong.

R_Webb18
06-01-2011, 01:58 PM
you can say you cant bunt but if you would just try every so often in a game im sure you could improve.

texasdave
06-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Just wondering, is there another player in MLB that is called out on strikes as much as Stubbs, especially on 0-2 and 1-2 counts?

With his speed, just getting the ball in play could easily mean a hit.

Not protecting the plate on those counts constitutes a major failing, IMO, on his part and on the part of the coaching staff.

Add that to his outright refusal to attempt more than one bunt every 50 games, and somebody isn't doing his job.

According to baseball-reference.com Stubbs numbers on 0-2 count are staggeringly pitiful. In 83 PA when Stubbs has put the ball in play, and I say that in the loosest terms possible, he has garnered just five hits for an .061 batting average. He has struck out 58 times in that situation. :eek: 70% of the time when something happens on an 0-2 count, that something is Drew grabbing some pine. :eek::eek:
His number after an 0-2 count are not much better. The bottom line is if the pitcher gets up 0-2 on Drew, good things aren't gonna happen for the Reds.
Maybe every time the count reaches 0-2 he should just bunt. How could it be any worse?

malcontent
06-01-2011, 04:25 PM
According to baseball-reference.com Stubbs numbers on 0-2 count are staggeringly pitiful. In 83 PA when Stubbs has put the ball in play, and I say that in the loosest terms possible, he has garnered just five hits for an .061 batting average. He has struck out 58 times in that situation. :eek: 70% of the time when something happens on an 0-2 count, that something is Drew grabbing some pine. :eek::eek:
His number after an 0-2 count are not much better. The bottom line is if the pitcher gets up 0-2 on Drew, good things aren't gonna happen for the Reds.
Maybe every time the count reaches 0-2 he should just bunt. How could it be any worse?
It really couldn't.

But would he take strike three waiting for the best possible pitch to bunt?

Stubbs seems smarter than he's playing in this regard. But again, I fault Baker and the staff for not getting through to him.

mu4103
06-02-2011, 05:00 PM
It really couldn't.

But would he take strike three waiting for the best possible pitch to bunt?

Stubbs seems smarter than he's playing in this regard. But again, I fault Baker and the staff for not getting through to him.

Baker has been busy spending 1 on 1 time coaching Gomes (no joke).

mu4103
06-02-2011, 05:08 PM
Stubbs leads the league in K's. Two more than Adam Dunn.

R_Webb18
06-02-2011, 06:51 PM
Stubbs leads the league in K's. Two more than Adam Dunn.

and every other stat he beat him

R_Webb18
06-02-2011, 06:56 PM
Stubbs leads the league in K's. Two more than Adam Dunn.

61 more ab also

lonewolf371
06-02-2011, 08:26 PM
Stubbs has been awful at the plate lately. I can understand a strikeout rate between 25-30% but what he's been doing recently has been abysmal. He needs something to turn him around.

gedred69
06-02-2011, 11:36 PM
He's not a lead-off hitter. But then there is no lead-off on this team currently. If he were to bat in a more insulated spot in the order, his numbers would be more to our liking. All the way through his journey to the Bigs, the Organization tried him as Lead-off, and he floundered. He hit when he was moved down in the Line-up. You would think certain someones paid attention in History Class. The only other current regular to see extensive lead-off is Phillips, who is a natural #2, whose avg. drops significantly as #1. Sappelt in LF can't get happen soon enough.......

BluegrassRedleg
06-03-2011, 02:01 AM
Stubbs is going to K a lot, it's just the way he hits..

An absolutely unacceptable approach, IMHO. K a lot in Cedar Rapids, not Cincinnati.

(Yeah, yeah. I know CR isn't a Reds affiliate anymore. Just a saying me the friends have held onto.) :)

BluegrassRedleg
06-03-2011, 02:04 AM
and every other stat he beat him

That ain't sayin' much in the year 2011.

JayStubbs
06-03-2011, 07:47 AM
According to baseball-reference.com Stubbs numbers on 0-2 count are staggeringly pitiful. In 83 PA when Stubbs has put the ball in play, and I say that in the loosest terms possible, he has garnered just five hits for an .061 batting average. He has struck out 58 times in that situation. :eek: 70% of the time when something happens on an 0-2 count, that something is Drew grabbing some pine. :eek::eek:
His number after an 0-2 count are not much better. The bottom line is if the pitcher gets up 0-2 on Drew, good things aren't gonna happen for the Reds.
Maybe every time the count reaches 0-2 he should just bunt. How could it be any worse?

That's true for just about everyone. Jay Bruce, for example, this year his hitting .130 and OPS .391 on 0-2 counts. Votto is the best on the team on 0-2, with a .204 BA and .474 OPS.

You go 0-2 on any hitter, and you own him. It's why it is so important for pitchers to get ahead early in the count.

BAKER12
06-03-2011, 03:03 PM
It really couldn't.

But would he take strike three waiting for the best possible pitch to bunt?

Stubbs seems smarter than he's playing in this regard. But again, I fault Baker and the staff for not getting through to him.

A shock that you are blaming Dusty for something
Then you need to applaud Dusty and Jacoby for their work with Bruce

mu4103
06-03-2011, 04:42 PM
A shock that you are blaming Dusty for something
Then you need to applaud Dusty and Jacoby for their work with Bruce
Honestly, can Dusty do anything wrong. A shock that you are defending Dusty. The way I see it, Dusty is the washed up Neil O'Donnell starting QB. It's time to try something new in Cincy.

texasdave
06-03-2011, 06:57 PM
That's true for just about everyone. Jay Bruce, for example, this year his hitting .130 and OPS .391 on 0-2 counts. Votto is the best on the team on 0-2, with a .204 BA and .474 OPS.

You go 0-2 on any hitter, and you own him. It's why it is so important for pitchers to get ahead early in the count.

You are correct. The 0-2 count is the pitcher's best friend. But there is 0-2 bad and then there is 0-2 Drew Stubbs bad.
Some numbers. In 18 PA this year Drew has an .000 OPS on that count with 14 Ks. In his career his OPS is .131 when making things happen on 0-2. The N.L. average this year is .363. That includes pitchers. Take them out and the OPS would, no doubt, be higher. I would imagine, conservatively, the average position player is around three times higher than Stubbs' .131 career OPS. And he takes such weak swings, if he swings at all, on that count. He would be better served to bunt every time the count goes to 0-2 on him. At the very least he gets some work in on his bunting skills.

lonewolf371
06-03-2011, 07:03 PM
Honestly, can Dusty do anything wrong. A shock that you are defending Dusty. The way I see it, Dusty is the washed up Neil O'Donnell starting QB. It's time to try something new in Cincy.
It's more the other way around. People on this board blame every problem with the team on Dusty and every time a Reds player does something good, he's doing it in spite of Dusty. That's totally inconsistent and entirely hypocritical. Either give Dusty credit for everything or nothing.

BAKER12
06-03-2011, 07:29 PM
Honestly, can Dusty do anything wrong. A shock that you are defending Dusty. The way I see it, Dusty is the washed up Neil O'Donnell starting QB. It's time to try something new in Cincy.

Time to try something new?
Did you realize the Reds won their division last season?
Oh yes, I'm sure they did it despite Dusty, the continual bashing is ridiculous and stupid.

DocRed
06-03-2011, 09:07 PM
wut?

DocRed
06-03-2011, 09:08 PM
Time to try something new?
Did you realize the Reds won their division last season?
Oh yes, I'm sure they did it despite Dusty, the continual bashing is ridiculous and stupid.

You will have better luck getting him to criticize Jesus..

BAKER12
06-04-2011, 01:51 AM
You will have better luck getting him to criticize Jesus..

Alou?:laugh:

bornready
06-04-2011, 10:16 AM
It's more the other way around. People on this board blame every problem with the team on Dusty and every time a Reds player does something good, he's doing it in spite of Dusty. That's totally inconsistent and entirely hypocritical. Either give Dusty credit for everything or nothing.

spot on...dusty does make some mistakes, as does everyone...but he is a good manager, and the people calling for his head are doing so because that is just what they do

mu4103
06-04-2011, 08:19 PM
spot on...dusty does make some mistakes, as does everyone...but he is a good manager, and the people calling for his head are doing so because that is just what they do
My comment was directed more toward BAKER12 who has never criticized Dusty as far as I can tell. He has been a constant defender of Jonny Gomes and he used the back-up QB scenario (same as Dusty did) defending why Heisey was not playing. I am convinced if he is not Dusty Baker, he is Dusty's publicity rep. Not a personal attack, but everything said here is true.

DocRed
06-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Stubbs is now tied with our old friend Adam Dunn for the MLB lead in strikeouts at 78....he is projected to strike out 211 times this year.

signalhome
06-06-2011, 09:21 AM
Stubbs is now tied with our old friend Adam Dunn for the MLB lead in strikeouts at 78....he is projected to strike out 211 times this year.

He also has a .346 wOBA while playing an elite defensive CF (5.6 UZR so far). Stubbs is having a good season, on course with what we should expect. The only reason his power is down is because he has traded some fly balls for more line drives and ground balls; his HR/FB is right at what it was last year.

mu4103
06-06-2011, 03:43 PM
He also has a .346 wOBA while playing an elite defensive CF (5.6 UZR so far). Stubbs is having a good season, on course with what we should expect. The only reason his power is down is because he has traded some fly balls for more line drives and ground balls; his HR/FB is right at what it was last year.
The only thing I have to say is when you can't put the ball in play, it takes away some of the upside of your speed. Ex. If there is a runner on 1st and Stubbs grounds out (he is probably not going to get doubled up), you have Stubbs on first. With his speed it is almost the same thing as a sac bunt, because he has a good shot to steal 2nd anyway. His K numbers are interesting. Adam Dunn has always had a huge OBP despite the K's. I can't think of many great speed players who have had high K's. We shall see. I am still not 100% sold on Stubbs yet.

signalhome
06-06-2011, 04:03 PM
The only thing I have to say is when you can't put the ball in play, it takes away some of the upside of your speed. Ex. If there is a runner on 1st and Stubbs grounds out (he is probably not going to get doubled up), you have Stubbs on first. With his speed it is almost the same thing as a sac bunt, because he has a good shot to steal 2nd anyway. His K numbers are interesting. Adam Dunn has always had a huge OBP despite the K's. I can't think of many great speed players who have had high K's. We shall see. I am still not 100% sold on Stubbs yet.

No denying that Stubbs is greatly limiting his potential by striking out a lot, like any player who frequently whiffs. However, that's just the kind of player he is, and since he's still pretty good in spite of striking out so frequently, it doesn't really bother me. He was still a 4.0 WAR player last year with a 32.7% K%, and he already has 2.5 WAR with a 31.6% K% this year. If he could get his walk numbers up to where they were early in his minor league career (around the 12% mark), it would do wonders for his numbers.