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Señor Rojo
06-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Paul Daugherty of the Cincinnati Enquirer called out Cincinnati for the lack of attendance at Reds games this season:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2011/06/02/the-morning-line-62-2/

I think he makes so good points. When people ask me what kind of sports town Cincinnati is, I really don't have a straight answer. I say it's usually the team that is doing the best, so I agree with Daugherty that it's a Big Event Town. If the Reds were in first place and playing the Cardinals on a weekend, GABP would be nearly sold out (thanks in large part to Cards fans buying tickets). However, playing the Brewers on a weekday doesn't do much for Reds fans to come down for the ballgame.

So what's the deal? Fair weather fans? Poor baseball market? Let the theories fly!

RedLegsToday
06-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Not enough offense. They've taken out steriods and ruined the game! :D

mlh1981
06-02-2011, 02:26 PM
I don't know what it is anymore. I mean, I could sit here and say that the ecomony/day of the week/stadium location/weather/school being in session, etc are factors, but for several franchises, they fill the park regardless of those things.

People in the comment section of that site raised many good points, but it sounds like excuses (in some cases). People in Milwaukee, a comparable sized market, have jobs and school as well, but they fill up the park.

brm7675
06-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Well if you look around MLB as a whole, attendance is down. I think some of the answers can be laid at the feet of the economy. People are having to really pick and chose now where and how much to spend. I live over in Indy and use to go to about 6-7 games a year, now this year it was just going to be 2 until we got the HOF membership which gave us 4 free tix so we will be coming over 2 more times. But with gas being either at or over $4 a gallon and the price of drinks and such at the game it can be a bit pricey. I also think Reds fans are also a bit jaded, they are still to a degree living in the past.

brm7675
06-02-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't know what it is anymore. I mean, I could sit here and say that the ecomony/day of the week/stadium location/weather/school being in session, etc are factors, but for several franchises, they fill the park regardless of those things.

People in the comment section of that site raised many good points, but it sounds like excuses (in some cases). People in Milwaukee, a comparable sized market, have jobs and school as well, but they fill up the park.

going to a Brewers game is an event, it's totally different and the weather doesn't play any roll.

mlh1981
06-02-2011, 02:29 PM
Well if you look around MLB as a whole, attendance is down. I think some of the answers can be laid at the feet of the economy. People are having to really pick and chose now where and how much to spend. I live over in Indy and use to go to about 6-7 games a year, now this year it was just going to be 2 until we got the HOF membership which gave us 4 free tix so we will be coming over 2 more times. But with gas being either at or over $4 a gallon and the price of drinks and such at the game it can be a bit pricey. I also think Reds fans are also a bit jaded, they are still to a degree living in the past.

I think you pretty much nailed it. I would imagine many casual fans, who might otherwise go, want to be shown first that last year was not a fluke.

Jefferson24
06-02-2011, 02:36 PM
Well if you look around MLB as a whole, attendance is down. I think some of the answers can be laid at the feet of the economy. People are having to really pick and chose now where and how much to spend. I live over in Indy and use to go to about 6-7 games a year, now this year it was just going to be 2 until we got the HOF membership which gave us 4 free tix so we will be coming over 2 more times. But with gas being either at or over $4 a gallon and the price of drinks and such at the game it can be a bit pricey. I also think Reds fans are also a bit jaded, they are still to a degree living in the past.

Its the ecomomy.

My wife and I are going down to one vehicle. Almost everybody's hurting. I used to make the trip to Cincy once or twice a year and catch two or three games. I haven't been in two years now, cant afford the gas, hotel and time away from work.

brm7675
06-02-2011, 02:39 PM
I think you pretty much nailed it. I would imagine many casual fans, who might otherwise go, want to be shown first that last year was not a fluke.

to me there are 3 kind of fans..

1. Hard Core, they will go and support no matter what
2. Sport Fan, they will go if the team is doing well
3. CAsual fan, they will only go if the team is the best and winning alot, otherwise they spend their funds other places.

The Reds are only getting a small percentage of the Sport Fan and not many casual fans on a repeat basis, until that happens attendance will remain where it is...

lonewolf371
06-02-2011, 02:47 PM
It sucks. If I lived in Cincy itself or the Cincy area I'd probably hit up at least a game or two every week. Right now I have no job and little money and I've made it to a couple of games so far and will make it to a couple more later. Sometimes it takes time to build a fan base; you get ten years of losing and a lot of people will forget about baseball.

Grouse
06-02-2011, 03:17 PM
I was watching the reds game Tue. and seen the poor attendance. I spun it off to being because it was the day after Memorial day. Then in between innings I fliped over to the Cards, Giants game on ESPN, and Busch was packed to the gills, with people on there feet in the 5th inning. Its hard for me to say, but Card fans blow us out of the water. As long as they show up and we don't, we can never ***** about there payroll.

Eric from NC
06-02-2011, 03:23 PM
It seems to me this years attendance is basically in line with a small market club. For the most part, weekend attendance is good, Mon-Wed is sometimes shakey. With living in NC, I noticed the Braves have the same issues despite having a much bigger Metro pop. I do think the unbalanced schedule is an issue. There are a lot of games against teams like Pitt and Houston that don't generate much buzz and don't have any fans go see the team on the road.

lonewolf371
06-02-2011, 03:28 PM
It seems to me this years attendance is basically in line with a small market club. For the most part, weekend attendance is good, Mon-Wed is sometimes shakey. With living in NC, I noticed the Braves have the same issues despite having a much bigger Metro pop. I do think the unbalanced schedule is an issue. There are a lot of games against teams like Pitt and Houston that don't generate much buzz and don't have any fans go see the team on the road.
Those are the games that hurt the most, but other markets like St. Louis and Milwaukee still pack the park for those teams.

Mutaman
06-02-2011, 03:30 PM
From the outside looking in: Cincinnati is a just a bad sports town. What's worse is the constant excuses people here make to explain the miserable attendence.

Its pretty hard to ask the Reds to compete financially with St Louis and Milwaukee when fans don't bother to show up.

5TimeWSChamps
06-02-2011, 03:32 PM
I live in Columbus now, If I lived in Cincy still I'd go to almost every game I'd bet. It's easy to park at Newport or Covington for $3, walk the bridge, pick up a $8 ticket, have a hot dog, get out for under $15 per game

Mutaman
06-02-2011, 03:32 PM
Its the ecomomy.

My wife and I are going down to one vehicle. Almost everybody's hurting. I used to make the trip to Cincy once or twice a year and catch two or three games. I haven't been in two years now, cant afford the gas, hotel and time away from work.

The economy's pretty bad in Wisconsin too.

Vottomatic
06-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I was watching the reds game Tue. and seen the poor attendance. I spun it off to being because it was the day after Memorial day. Then in between innings I fliped over to the Cards, Giants game on ESPN, and Busch was packed to the gills, with people on there feet in the 5th inning. Its hard for me to say, but Card fans blow us out of the water. As long as they show up and we don't, we can never ***** about there payroll.

THERE IS NOTHING TO DO IN ST. LOUIS. THE PEOPLE ARE BORED BECAUSE THE TOWN SUCKS.

My brother graduated from Washington University in St. Louis and told me it was a terrible place to live. Nothing to do.

The problem with Cincinnati is it is smack dab in the middle of tons of great sports. Pro Football town - Bengals, College Football town - UC (went to Orange Bowl 2 years ago and now in the Big East).......Ohio State, UK are in close proximity. Alot of Notre Dame alumni and fans live here. Same for Ohio State, Miami of Ohio, Xavier, etc. Close proximity to alot of colleges.......seriously, for both football and college basketball. Tons of good college basketball in this area - choose between Xavier, UC (Big East), UK (SEC) and Louisville (Big East), Ohio State (Big Ten), Miami Redhawks, etc. Minor League hockey - Cyclones. High school football and basketball are huge in Cincinnati. The Catholic schools are a big deal such as Elder, Moeller, St. X, etc. And even Northern Kentucky is big into high school football.

And then you factor in the economy. I've taken a 40% paycut the last 2 years and actually was on unemployment for 9 months in 2009 and 4 months in 2010 (big shout out to our pathetic government for that!). I've since started a second job, which helps but doesn't completely make up what I lost. I got 2 teenage daughters, etc., etc...........gas prices............it's tough right now.

I think Daugherty needs to be more sympathetic and write a piece about why people aren't going to the games as opposed to why not.

I wonder how much Castellini paid him to write that? :eek:

lonewolf371
06-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I live in Columbus now, If I lived in Cincy still I'd go to almost every game I'd bet. It's easy to park at Newport or Covington for $3, walk the bridge, pick up a $8 ticket, have a hot dog, get out for under $15 per game
Exactly. For me the only problem is that living in Indiana I have to add about $40 for gas. Living in Cincy, oh goodness would I have a lot of days at the ballpark.

bounty37h
06-02-2011, 03:42 PM
going to a Brewers game is an event, it's totally different and the weather doesn't play any roll.

What is a Reds game then, how different and why? Weather doesnt play roll? You "Butter" doublecheck that :)

bounty37h
06-02-2011, 03:43 PM
It sucks. If I lived in Cincy itself or the Cincy area I'd probably hit up at least a game or two every week. Right now I have no job and little money and I've made it to a couple of games so far and will make it to a couple more later. Sometimes it takes time to build a fan base; you get ten years of losing and a lot of people will forget about baseball.

Losing is an excuse (valid maybe), how do the Cubs draw so well?

Kingspoint
06-02-2011, 03:44 PM
It's 15 straight seasons of missing the playoffs. That's an entire generation that got disinterested.

Kingspoint
06-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Losing is an excuse (valid maybe), how do the Cubs draw so well?

They have 40-50 million fans (who've lived there at one time or another over the last 80 years) to draw from. It only takes a small percentage of them to fill out the park, and there's always going to be a small percentage of fans who don't care enough about baseball that they'll go to the games but can't tell you who the players are. As a result of the large number of "returning residents who arrive in Chicago for one reason or another on a particular day", there's enough demand by them that scalpers (and season ticket holders) will continue to renew their season tickets year after year after year, as it's a money-making endeavor most years.

Who Dey Time
06-02-2011, 04:05 PM
I think a lot can be attributed to one word.....television.

Of course there are a multitude of reasons and Cincinnati being a front running type of town is certainly one of them, however, HDTV has made going to the game less attractive in general....especially at some of the prices that people pay. Would you rather pay for a ticket, parking, and $7 per beer or would you rather sit at home, watch the game on your big screen HDTV and pay $7 for a six pack of beer?

I'm a sports nut and spend almost all of my extra money that hasn't been saved for my kids activities on Reds, Bengals, and UC tickets. My sense, though, is that I'm certainly in the minority on those that spend on multiple local sports teams.

mlh1981
06-02-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm also envious of the support the Phillies get. Something I noticed from our last trip there (and trips the past few years, including a game I was at in person).

That town LOVES their team. Granted, they have won recently, have a big metro area, and spend money....

Mutaman
06-02-2011, 04:30 PM
THERE IS NOTHING TO DO IN ST. LOUIS. THE PEOPLE ARE BORED BECAUSE THE TOWN SUCKS.

My brother graduated from Washington University in St. Louis and told me it was a terrible place to live. Nothing to do.

The problem with Cincinnati is it is smack dab in the middle of tons of great sports. Pro Football town - Bengals, College Football town - UC (went to Orange Bowl 2 years ago and now in the Big East).......Ohio State, UK are in close proximity. Alot of Notre Dame alumni and fans live here. Same for Ohio State, Miami of Ohio, Xavier, etc. Close proximity to alot of colleges.......seriously, for both football and college basketball. Tons of good college basketball in this area - choose between Xavier, UC (Big East), UK (SEC) and Louisville (Big East), Ohio State (Big Ten), Miami Redhawks, etc. Minor League hockey - Cyclones. High school football and basketball are huge in Cincinnati. The Catholic schools are a big deal such as Elder, Moeller, St. X, etc. And even Northern Kentucky is big into high school football.

And then you factor in the economy. I've taken a 40% paycut the last 2 years and actually was on unemployment for 9 months in 2009 and 4 months in 2010 (big shout out to our pathetic government for that!). I've since started a second job, which helps but doesn't completely make up what I lost. I got 2 teenage daughters, etc., etc...........gas prices............it's tough right now.

I think Daugherty needs to be more sympathetic and write a piece about why people aren't going to the games as opposed to why not.

I wonder how much Castellini paid him to write that? :eek:

You use the Bungals and "great sports" in the same sentence?

webbbj
06-02-2011, 04:34 PM
maybe ppl just prefer to watch on tv. i rly enjoy it. ive been to 5 games so far tho so ive done my part.

Captain13
06-02-2011, 04:56 PM
I am so tired of the attendance columns. When people feel like it is a good value and a priority they will go to games. I think the Reds are doing their part ($5 tickets, good promotions, you can bring in your own food, competitive team), I think most fans get to several games a year and wish they could do more. The season is already 1/3 over and I've only been up once and won't make it in June, but I will make several July/August appearances.

CrosleyField
06-02-2011, 04:58 PM
Drove from North Carolina to Cincy the last weekend in April, and I plan on going back for a weekend in July. Not super rich, but I am a life time fan and to me its worth the effort a couple of times a year to make the trip. And my sons love it.

I think television does make it too easy not to go.

Señor Rojo
06-02-2011, 06:02 PM
THERE IS NOTHING TO DO IN ST. LOUIS. THE PEOPLE ARE BORED BECAUSE THE TOWN SUCKS.

My brother graduated from Washington University in St. Louis and told me it was a terrible place to live. Nothing to do.

The problem with Cincinnati is it is smack dab in the middle of tons of great sports.

And then you factor in the economy. I've taken a 40% paycut the last 2 years and actually was on unemployment for 9 months in 2009 and 4 months in 2010 (big shout out to our pathetic government for that!). I've since started a second job, which helps but doesn't completely make up what I lost. I got 2 teenage daughters, etc., etc...........gas prices............it's tough right now.

I think Daugherty needs to be more sympathetic and write a piece about why people aren't going to the games as opposed to why not.


I'm going to pay Devil's Advocate for a moment, so bear with me. First off, I've effectively lived in Cincinnati my whole life, with the exception of my college years. I spent some time in St. Louis when attending a university there, so I have some credibility when comparing the two cities and here it is: they are pretty much twins separated at birth. They both are river towns in the Midwest. Both are conservative cities where its residents will ask you which high school you attended, assuming that you have lived there your whole life. On a side note, WashU is in a great part of the city, there's lots for college students and young adults to do there, but I digress.

Now, here's where the two differ. St. Louis is a baseball town. I went to a Reds game at Busch in 2008 (pre-brawl) on a Wednesday night in April. It was maybe 50 degrees outside and the weather was awful. Guess what? The stadium was absolutely packed with people. Not only was it packed, everyone cheered (and I mean everyone) cheered throughout the game. I was in the Art Museum (in Cincinnati, mind you) last summer and saw a display where children were asked to draw what America means to them. One of the entries had written "Cardinals Baseball" complete with a drawing of a Cardinal and a baseball bat. Yeah, they are that serious about baseball in St. Louis.

So, why is St. Louis all about baseball when it's Cincinnati's twin? Well, the Cardinals have 10 World Series compared to the Reds's 5. However, the Cardinals went a drought throughout the 90's, so I don't think this argument is that valid. Perhaps it's the recent success the club has had. After all, they had McGwire's homerun chase in '98 and went to the World Series in '04 and won it in '06.

Another things St. Louis has is a huge draw of fans from the surrounding area. Effectively all of Missouri support the Cardinals, whereas the Royals have a smaller draw. Neighboring states also support the Cardinals, ranging from Nebraska to Arkansas. This map made by Nike is pretty accruate, although I would argue that the Cardinals have a pretty big presence in the areas they have designated for the Royals. http://sportsproject.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/3-baseball-map.jpg
Now, are people from Arkansas going to make a trip in for a Wednesday night game? Probably not, so I think it comes back to people in the St. Louis metropolitan area making the trip during the weekdays.

Busch isn't in the best part of St. Louis, but it has some bars and restaurants surrounding it. I think this really helps in getting people to attend the games. Don't want to pay $7.75 for a draft beer in the ballpark? Stop by a bar within walking distance and pay less than half that price for a high quality beer. In all fairness, I think the concessions at GABP are great. $1 for a hot dog in a MLB park? Sure it may not be the best and they're only in designated areas, but that's an unbelievable value. The Banks development is going to tremendously help attendance at GABP, especially with the Moerlein Brewery going in. The Holy Grail has already requested to expand for more space in the Banks because their business has been so good thus far. Families make up part of the overall attendance, but adults are going to be the ones going to the games on the weekdays when school in is. Adults want a place where they can hang out before and after the game.

Cincinnati is not a great sports town. Most of its residents are fair weather fans. It wan't long ago when people at Bengals games were wearing bags over their heads. Also, none of the other sports teams are playing in the summer - it's just the Reds. Which begs Daugherty's question of why people are not coming to see the Reds.

I understand that the economy is not well and that people are struggling financially. However, the Reds have some of the best prices in baseball. You can attend a game for $5. Sure, the seats may not be great, but try getting a ticket for $5 at another ballpark. Gas and transportation may be a bigger factor, and it would be nice to have some type of public transportation to get people to the ballpark. St. Louis has a light rail train, but that's another discussion.

I think it comes down to a non-loyal fan following compounded with poor game atmosphere at the ballpark before, during, and after the game. Hopefully The Banks will change that, bringing people down to GABP. I hope so.

Señor Rojo
06-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Losing is an excuse (valid maybe), how do the Cubs draw so well?

Go to Wrigleyville before and after a game and you will understand why people attend. Being at a Cubs game is a social experience. It's not all about baseball.

arkimadee
06-02-2011, 06:39 PM
gas prices

mckbearcat48
06-02-2011, 06:51 PM
Cubs fans are like the kind of people that bottle up the interstate after an accident. They want to see what disaster happens next.

brm7675
06-02-2011, 06:57 PM
What is a Reds game then, how different and why? Weather doesnt play roll? You "Butter" doublecheck that :)

Have you been to a Brewers game? It's totally different then a Reds game, different vibe, more stuff going on outside the stadium and hell the stadium alone is worth going to, plus you don't have to worry what the weather is outside because it's always warm and dry inside Miller Park. that makes a big difference...

10xWSChamps
06-02-2011, 08:59 PM
http://www.stubhub.com/cincinnati-reds-tickets/reds-vs-dodgers-6-3-2011-1005311/

For the game on Friday, you can sit at a dugout box seat (Reds dugout, mind you) for 60 bucks :eek: That is some crazy value right there. Now, obviously everyone does not have 60 bucks to spend on a ticket. Heck, visitor dugout box for 50 dollars!!!

If you have a family, there's 4 bleacher seats available for a total of 16 dollars. 16 bucks for 4 seats to a professional sporting event is, well, about as good of value as you will ever see.

If you're in the metro area, it would be hard to argue that it's too expensive for you to go to the game. Going to the movies and getting a couple snacks would probably cost the same as going to the Reds game tomorrow and paying for parking

Reds
06-02-2011, 09:06 PM
The Reds attendance is very similar to their overall success since creation -- sporadic.

You can't make the prices any cheaper. Improve parking and the surrounding area would be start, there really is no answer to the question expect W-I-N-N-I-N-G.

webbbj
06-02-2011, 09:22 PM
The Reds attendance is very similar to their overall success since creation -- sporadic.

You can't make the prices any cheaper. Improve parking and the surrounding area would be start, there really is no answer to the question expect W-I-N-N-I-N-G.

i think that is a big key. the guys who can afford to go to the games a lot are affluent people living in nice suburbs like mason, west chester, greentownship, etc. When the inner city becomes more affluent and better developed i think more people will be willing to drive down there.

Reds
06-02-2011, 09:25 PM
I haven't been to Cincinnati in almost a year.. in Riverfront area still a dirt lot?

Let's also remember the Reds have a large broadcast region covering IN-KY-TN-WV-NC. If you live in WV or TN or NC you can see the Reds on TV and listen to them on the radio for free without driving hundreds of miles to the games, I know it takes me 10 hours to get to Ohio...

webbbj
06-02-2011, 09:47 PM
I haven't been to Cincinnati in almost a year.. in Riverfront area still a dirt lot?



no its not, downtown is actually very amazing but still the surrounding neighborhoods arent very affluent areas: price hill, OTR, winton place, avondale, walnut hills etc.

The areas surrounding downtown that are affluent including Mt adams, hyde park, mt lookout, parts of clifton and downtown which have a lot of young professional types that need to be the key clog in boosting attendance imo.

But family man, living in upperclass suburbs is 30-40 minutes from the park is not gonna attend regularly.

Personally id hate it but i think it would be really interesting to see what attendance would be like if GABP was in a place like Mason. I think we could see 30K+ nightly

WestSideBomber
06-02-2011, 09:56 PM
I understand the economy arguments for people who live far away from GABP, but I don't buy it for anybody who lives inside the 275 loop. I have been home from college for less than 1 week and I have already been to 3 games, and am going to a 4th on Saturday. I live in Delhi, so not too far, but even with gas included I have not spent more than $15 on any of the 3 games I've been to. It's probably $5 in gas…I get downtown right at 6PM when the metered spots become free, so I have not paid a cent for parking…$5 ticket each night…couple of dollar hot dogs for dinner. Boom. That’s less than $15 for an entire night of entertainment. I understand that $15 can add up to a lot when you take the whole family but you don’t even have to eat at the stadium. You can pack a dinner and take it in!

improbus
06-02-2011, 10:15 PM
I don't know what part this plays, but one thing I've noticed over the last 20 years of going to games is that African Americans more or less don't go anymore. GABP is as lily-white as a Toby Keith concert. Now, that is not the reason for the precipitous decline in attendance over the last 20 years, but it has to be a part of the factor. Basically, half of the population of the city of Cincinnati doesn't go.

Roush's socks
06-02-2011, 10:31 PM
1. Franchises are businesses and some are run better than others. The Cardinals have been able to grow a large regional fan base and over the years they do a better job with marketing.

2. A big problem is that GABP doesn't have the whole experience surrounding it in terms of restaurants, businesses and reasons to make it worthwhile to go to a game rather than watch it on TV.

3. As someone else on this thread pointed out-- they went through a 15 year period of losing and lost a whole generation. The Reds are now almost a history piece where fans spend more time talking about past palyers and teams than the current team. Of course this is changing now the Reds are relevant again.

webbbj
06-02-2011, 10:34 PM
I understand that $15 can add up to a lot when you take the whole family but you don’t even have to eat at the stadium. You can pack a dinner and take it in!


well thats exactly it. I see lots of 18-30 year olds at the park on a wednesday nite and these people can probably get to 5-10 games a year. I doubt their attendance is the issue.

But the family of 4-6 just isnt getting out with a $15/person budget. Ur typical family doesnt get home till 6pm, their not gonna want to start packing dinners at 6, get the kids ready then leave by 6:20 in order to rush to the stadium in time, park, get tix, then sit down.

These people are living their lives in a fast paced environment all day and they just want to slow down and relax once they leave work.

Now weekend attendance, ill agree it probably should be sold out everytime b/c everyone w/in a 45 mile radius is a customer that has time to relax and plan things accordingly.

dougflynn23
06-02-2011, 11:15 PM
I used to go to 15-20 games a season. I now have 3 sons who all play baseball, and my Mondays - Saturdays are essentially gone from April thru July.
The 150 or so TV games is a huge factor as well.

lonewolf371
06-02-2011, 11:57 PM
well thats exactly it. I see lots of 18-30 year olds at the park on a wednesday nite and these people can probably get to 5-10 games a year. I doubt their attendance is the issue.

But the family of 4-6 just isnt getting out with a $15/person budget. Ur typical family doesnt get home till 6pm, their not gonna want to start packing dinners at 6, get the kids ready then leave by 6:20 in order to rush to the stadium in time, park, get tix, then sit down.

These people are living their lives in a fast paced environment all day and they just want to slow down and relax once they leave work.

Now weekend attendance, ill agree it probably should be sold out everytime b/c everyone w/in a 45 mile radius is a customer that has time to relax and plan things accordingly.
The ballpark is the perfect place to relax, provided you have perspective and don't get in a big hissy fit over every strikeout.

Who Dey Time
06-03-2011, 09:02 AM
The ballpark is the perfect place to relax, provided you have perspective and don't get in a big hissy fit over every strikeout.

That would eliminate about 80% of the Sun Deck from attending.

bounty37h
06-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Go to Wrigleyville before and after a game and you will understand why people attend. Being at a Cubs game is a social experience. It's not all about baseball.

I totally get that, what does CIncy have to do to get that kind of atmosphere where they can also pull in the casual fan/socialite as well as the true baseball fans. I dont like em there to be honest, but they bring money which makes the team better.

bounty37h
06-03-2011, 09:23 AM
Have you been to a Brewers game? It's totally different then a Reds game, different vibe, more stuff going on outside the stadium and hell the stadium alone is worth going to, plus you don't have to worry what the weather is outside because it's always warm and dry inside Miller Park. that makes a big difference...

Nope, I havent been but would love to some day. What does Cincy have to do to get this kind of vibe going around the team and stadium then is what I am trying to find out. What wil bring fans even when we are losing? As for the rest, I was making fun of you for saying the weather doesnt play a "roll" ;) Yeast understand what I am getting at :)?
It seems from looking through others responses and my own observatiosn from my local team-the Durham Bulls-that the area around makes a big difference in Cincy. The Bulls draw great each year, and think the downtown revitalization around the park has helped with that. Someone came in and bought a warehouse adn turned it into lofts, and then others followed. It is a living social area as well as destiantion area now that pulls others in. I think if someone did something similar (if possible, not familiar with area around GABP) and had some nice downtown digs close to the stadium others would folow suit and change the culture around the park.

5TimeWSChamps
06-03-2011, 11:45 AM
i have not been a fan of GABP at all. I miss Riverfront, and being able to tell someone exactly where you sit just by saying 1b line - Red. It's my childhood. GABP just seems like a generic video game park, no real character at all

bounty37h
06-03-2011, 11:52 AM
i have not been a fan of GABP at all. I miss Riverfront, and being able to tell someone exactly where you sit just by saying 1b line - Red. It's my childhood. GABP just seems like a generic video game park, no real character at all

I think it has to do with what you like and grew up on like you said. There is still no stadium I would rather be in then the old Durham Bulls Park, and it was a run down dump at the time. I thik GABP is much better looking then RF, but it does feel generic. But, I also think RF was one of the ugliest and most generic looking stadium type of all time-that 70's bowl model just sucks IMO.

Fon Duc Tow
06-03-2011, 01:03 PM
I can't blame the economy. I just don't place a very high level of importance on sports anymore.

I still love the Reds, always will. But spending money on them is just not going to happen anymore.

The last time the Reds won the World Series, I never got a check in the mail, I'll put it that way.

bleedsred
06-03-2011, 01:39 PM
Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I have done my part. I sponsored a school field trip to the Reds-Pirates game and we had 130 tickets to the game. No way would at least 90 of these kids go to a game this year since we are 3 hours away to begin with.those kids spent money like crazy on food and souveniers...many porbably dropped 80 to 100 bucks easy...

Being so far away, it is hard to get down to Cincy for a game due to life in general. With 3 kids and 2 jobs (mine and my wife's) it is hard to get it all worked out....maybe development of a small and affordable amusement park aimed toward kids could draw in some more families......or how about a weekly night game with half-priced beer/ peanuts in certain sections of the park? That could maybe draw out the young, social fans you guys seem to think they need to draw to the park.

bounty37h
06-03-2011, 01:41 PM
Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I have done my part. I sponsored a school field trip to the Reds-Pirates game and we had 130 tickets to the game. No way would at least 90 of these kids go to a game this year since we are 3 hours away to begin with.those kids spent money like crazy on food and souveniers...many porbably dropped 80 to 100 bucks easy...

Being so far away, it is hard to get down to Cincy for a game due to life in general. With 3 kids and 2 jobs (mine and my wife's) it is hard to get it all worked out....maybe development of a small and affordable amusement park aimed toward kids could draw in some more families......or how about a weekly night game with half-priced beer/ peanuts in certain sections of the park? That could maybe draw out the young, social fans you guys seem to think they need to draw to the park.

Good job Bleedsred, maybe some of those kids will grow up Reds fans now!!

lonewolf371
06-03-2011, 01:52 PM
I think it has to do with what you like and grew up on like you said. There is still no stadium I would rather be in then the old Durham Bulls Park, and it was a run down dump at the time. I thik GABP is much better looking then RF, but it does feel generic. But, I also think RF was one of the ugliest and most generic looking stadium type of all time-that 70's bowl model just sucks IMO.
I never went there, but I always felt like Riverfront looked hideous.

5TimeWSChamps
06-03-2011, 01:57 PM
I never went there, but I always felt like Riverfront looked hideous.

It was hideous, but it was also synomynmous with winning baseball for the most part...however

lonewolf371
06-03-2011, 02:00 PM
It was hideous, but it was also synomynmous with winning baseball for the most part...however
I can sympathize with that. The RCA Dome here in Indy was a relatively crap NFL stadium, but that's the stadium the team won the Super Bowl out of and it had a character in it that Lucas Oil is lacking.

Señor Rojo
06-03-2011, 03:06 PM
I totally get that, what does CIncy have to do to get that kind of atmosphere where they can also pull in the casual fan/socialite as well as the true baseball fans. I dont like em there to be honest, but they bring money which makes the team better.

Put restaurants and bars in close proximity to the ballpark. After years of feuding between the city of Cincinnati and Hamilton county, it appears that this is finally happening. A brewery is supposed to open this fall: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=AB&Dato=20100714&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=7140804&Ref=PH

Here's the article: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100827/BIZ01/8290307/Christian-Moerlein-beer-baron-expanding-empire-Cincinnati-brands

What I think is most promising is that this place is going to have Cincinnati character, which will be very welcome to the Reds baseball experience. People go to Wrigleyville to drink Old Style and watch the game. That looks like it will finally happen in Cincinnati. Hudepohl and Reds baseball are going to be a great marriage for Reds fans. The future looks really bright for the Reds gameday experience.

RedLegsToday
06-03-2011, 04:16 PM
The Holy Grail is open right across the street from the Hall-of-Fame Entrance. The outside of the first wave of the Banks appears to be complete. Within the year, there will be people living, shopping, working, and playing within a block of the stadium. That should help greatly.

Helms1
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
I'm making my yearly trip in August to create a little inflation in the Queen City so tell Paul to ease up a bit, help is on the way. NC loves the Reds.

jwmann2
06-05-2011, 01:21 AM
I live in Lexington, KY. Even though I'm an hour away, gas is riciulous. I've been getting friends together and us all chip in on gas. Tommorow will be my fourth game this season. I always said that if I lived in Cincy, I would save so much money on gas, but realistically I wouldn't because I would probably be a season ticket holder.
I don't enjoy paying $8 for a beer. MLB games are certainly the least expensive, so I don't think cost is the reason attendance is down. I mean don't we all say Cincinnati is a baseball town. Equation is pretty simple, you go to games and spend money, the team has more money to spend on players. We've done a great job at developing our minor league system.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2011, 01:26 AM
Here's my Saturday and a possible answer for PD:

* $140 on two seats in Section 124
* $10 parking
* $30 gas
* $23 on food for me and the Mrs.
* $30 on 6 bottles of 20 oz water (Effing criminal if you ask me, but what are you gonna do when it's 96 degrees out and you're at a game for 4 hours?)
* 2 1/2 hours spent on I-75N for a 1-hour drive. Continual CLUSTERTOUCH of construction in Cincinnati.
* Arrive at the game in the middle of the 4th inning; miss out on Bench bobblehead (Not the reason I came, but would have been nice.)
* Watch the Reds piss away yet another game against a lame opponent in completely inexplicable fashion and fall 4 1/2 games behind the hated division rival that is completely decimated by injuries so far this season.

Yeah, I can't wait to go do that again. :rolleyes:

WestSideBomber
06-05-2011, 01:46 AM
Here's my Saturday and a possible answer for PD:

* $140 on two seats in Section 124
* $10 parking
* $30 gas
* $23 on food for me and the Mrs.
* $30 on 6 bottles of 20 oz water (Effing criminal if you ask me, but what are you gonna do when it's 96 degrees out and you're at a game for 4 hours?)
* 2 1/2 hours spent on I-75N for a 1-hour drive. Continual CLUSTERTOUCH of construction in Cincinnati.
* Arrive at the game in the middle of the 4th inning; miss out on Bench bobblehead (Not the reason I came, but would have been nice.)
* Watch the Reds piss away yet another game against a lame opponent in completely inexplicable fashion and fall 4 1/2 games behind the hated division rival that is completely decimated by injuries so far this season.

Yeah, I can't wait to go do that again. :rolleyes:

Let me help you...pack a lunch! You can bring food and (unopened) drinks through the gate! That saves you $53 right there. And I personally would never pay $70 per seat for a baseball game, but if you're willing then good on ya. Obviously the gas money can't be helped, and if you arrived late to a sold out game you're lucky you got parking for $10.

Sorry to be a (you know what) but spending that amount of money on 2 people at a game is just ridiculous in my book. Maybe it's the college student in me, but there are sooo many ways to save money when attending a game.

RedLegsToday
06-05-2011, 09:10 AM
I went to the Reds-Brewers game on Tuesday with my girl:

4 bottles of water and a bag of peanuts, from an outside vendor: $8
Penn Station on the way to the game, less than, but, we'll say: $20
parking at a lot down Pete Rose Way, maybe a 3 block walk: $5
tickets, free from work, but $26 face value: $52

So, $85. Personally, I'd never spend that much on a ticket. Could have gotten $5 tix and sat pretty close to the same place. Don't have to deal with that kind of traffic issues. That would suck.

Vottomatic
06-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Maybe if they had a manager who could manage, the Reds would win more games and fans would start to believe in this team. The way Dusty manages, it makes me not want to attend.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2011, 02:34 PM
Let me help you...pack a lunch! You can bring food and (unopened) drinks through the gate! That saves you $53 right there. And I personally would never pay $70 per seat for a baseball game, but if you're willing then good on ya. Obviously the gas money can't be helped, and if you arrived late to a sold out game you're lucky you got parking for $10.

Sorry to be a (you know what) but spending that amount of money on 2 people at a game is just ridiculous in my book. Maybe it's the college student in me, but there are sooo many ways to save money when attending a game.

Our plan was to eat on the way to the game, but the road issues scrapped that. Also would have bought cheap bottles of water, but there weren't any of those guys on en route to the stadium. We walk across the bridge from Covington, and usually there are 3-4 guys out there, but they may not hang around after the game is 4 innings deep.

As for the tickets, I'm an old "Top 6" guy ($3.50 at Riverfront back in the day) but these were part of the 4-pack deal in order to get some nice seats when the Yankees come to town.

Just a horrible experience Saturday, thanks to the Reds' bullpen. A win would have at least salvaged something.

webbbj
06-05-2011, 06:43 PM
thom and sean were commenting during the game about how a retractable roof should help the marlins attendance in their new park and also mentioned the brewers attendance with the retractable roof.

Now the reds dont have the rain issues that Miami has but ive always wondered why all teams dont have retractable roofs. I think it would do alot for attendance and baseball in general.

We would no longer have complaints the season starts too early or is too long b/c everyone would have a roof.

No more rain delays, no more weather that is too hot or too cold which helps attendance

lonewolf371
06-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Sounds horrible, baseball should always be outside...

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2011, 09:56 PM
Sounds horrible, baseball should always be outside...

I think there's a case for it in Milwaukee/Minnesota/Houston/Phoenix/Miami, but tend to agree with your statement for the most part.

improbus
06-06-2011, 09:08 PM
I mentioned the loss of African American fans at Reds games. I ran across this article that bemoans that exact thing.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_40/b4003093.htm