PDA

View Full Version : OSU vs. UC (Yahoo sports)



jredmo2
06-02-2011, 03:10 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Cincinnati-Ohio-State-is-a-forgotten-rivalry-in-?urn=ncaab-wp3101


"It would be a yearly event just like Louisville and Kentucky, but I don't see it happening," Cronin said. "I have friends that have coached at Ohio State and they were basically told, 'You're not playing Cincinnati.' It's been a longstanding historical decision from their school."


Outgoing Cincinnati athletic director Bob Goin approached Ohio State in late 2005 about scheduling a game at the Wooden Tradition in Indianapolis the following year even though the Bearcats had just fired Huggins and lacked their usual talent. Ohio State chose that time to finally accept Cincinnati's offer and then delivered a 72-50 beatdown, one of the Bearcats' most humbling moments from a difficult 11-19 season.

Why would Goin choose that transitional period to reach out to Ohio State? And why would the Buckeyes agree to play Cincinnati that season but not before or since? Cronin has his suspicions, but he'll only hint at them.

"The contract was signed by the outgoing athletic director two weeks after Bob Huggins was fired," Cronin said. "Surmise what you want to surmise on that one."

Brutus
06-02-2011, 03:18 PM
There are a lot of reasons that Ohio State won't play Cincinnati, and Mick knows several of them but wouldn't have any reason to say publicly.

I think Ohio State is avoiding Cincinnati, but for a lot of different reasons that have changed over time. Some of them legitimate, maybe some of them not.

Redsfaithful
06-02-2011, 05:55 PM
I always heard it was partially over the Damon Flint situation, but that's been a long while now. As an Ohio State fan I'd like to see a series started up.

SeeinRed
06-02-2011, 06:12 PM
I always heard it was partially over the Damon Flint situation, but that's been a long while now. As an Ohio State fan I'd like to see a series started up.

I really wouldn't mind seeing it as a UC fan, although the desire to see it just isn't that strong. UC and OSU have gone this long without a rivalry, no reason to believe one would be that great now. Any other "rivalry" game will always be 2nd fiddle to the Crosstown Shootout in my mind. The time to start the OSU-UC rivalry was after 1962 IMO. Its just so hard to try and start a new rivalry when the history between the two schools is very sporadic in the past 50 years.

BuckeyeRed27
06-02-2011, 06:12 PM
I would love to see it. They should at least play every other year or host a tourament that they are both in with a couple other teams.

NorrisHopper30
06-02-2011, 06:18 PM
OSU is too scared to play UC - not enough reward for the risk involved. One of their go to recruiting pitches to anyone in Ohio is that they are the best program in Ohio and losing to Cincy could hurt their recruiting immensely IMO. Wimps, but for a good reason - with that being said if I were an OSU fan I'd wanna play UC every year.

paintmered
06-02-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't see this happening because I envision any negotiations going like this:

UC: Any series we agree to must be home-and-home. That goes for all sports, including football.
OSU: Why would we want to do that? 3-1 deal, and we reserve the right to cancel at any time

And that's as far as things will go.

It will take an act of state congress to make this happen. And even then, I don't see it since the state house is firmly under the thumb of OSU. It's not that I think Ohio State is ducking UC, I don't (at least not any more). It's that Ohio state won't agree to any series unless the terms are decidedly in their favor.

Brutus
06-02-2011, 08:33 PM
OSU is too scared to play UC - not enough reward for the risk involved. One of their go to recruiting pitches to anyone in Ohio is that they are the best program in Ohio and losing to Cincy could hurt their recruiting immensely IMO. Wimps, but for a good reason - with that being said if I were an OSU fan I'd wanna play UC every year.

They're playing Duke, Kansas and Florida this season. Why on earth would they be "scared?"

That's nonsense.

They're not playing for a lot of reasons. But being scared isn't even on the radar. Mick's ties to the Damon Flint incident as well as trying to make trouble against Matta in the Yancy Gates recruitment are a big reason they're not playing now. Before that it was fallout from the Flint ordeal itself. Prior to that it was lingering feelings dating back to the 60's.

jredmo2
06-03-2011, 12:23 AM
They're playing Duke, Kansas and Florida this season. Why on earth would they be "scared?"

That's nonsense.

They're not playing for a lot of reasons. But being scared isn't even on the radar. Mick's ties to the Damon Flint incident as well as trying to make trouble against Matta in the Yancy Gates recruitment are a big reason they're not playing now. Before that it was fallout from the Flint ordeal itself. Prior to that it was lingering feelings dating back to the 60's.

What exactly was the extent of Mick's involvement in the Damon Flint incident? He was an assistant at Woodward at the time, is he the one that reported the violations?

Brutus
06-03-2011, 10:59 AM
What exactly was the extent of Mick's involvement in the Damon Flint incident? He was an assistant at Woodward at the time, is he the one that reported the violations?

That is correct. He was an assistant at Woodward while Flint was there. The NCAA was alerted to the violation by an anonymous tipster on October 12, 1992--and that tipster is believed by most in the industry with knowledge of the situation to have been Cronin.

Cronin went on to become video coordinator straight out college and his job at Woodward in 1996 and a full-fledged assistant just one year later. It's not an unprecedented jump, but it's certainly rare to catch on that quickly & easily out of college and a high school assistant job to a major university, which doesn't do anything to quell the belief.

For those interested, here's an article I wrote in 2006 about the subject of the two schools not playing...

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

jredmo2
06-03-2011, 12:42 PM
That is correct. He was an assistant at Woodward while Flint was there. The NCAA was alerted to the violation by an anonymous tipster on October 12, 1992--and that tipster is believed by most in the industry with knowledge of the situation to have been Cronin.

Cronin went on to become video coordinator straight out college and his job at Woodward in 1996 and a full-fledged assistant just one year later. It's not an unprecedented jump, but it's certainly rare to catch on that quickly & easily out of college and a high school assistant job to a major university, which doesn't do anything to quell the belief.

For those interested, here's an article I wrote in 2006 about the subject of the two schools not playing...

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

Nice article. I loved the Larry Siegfried part.

Man this would be a really great, heated rivalry. The big brother/little brother dynamic, the history of animosity and purported attempts at sabotage -- it would have a chance of eclipsing UC-X for UC fans, and that's saying a lot.

It will obviously never eclipse OSU-UM for OSU fans. But the football teams do play in 2012. I'm a UC fan so obviously I'd like to see them win, which would be momentous as the first OSU in-state loss in forever. That's basically the fever dream that every UC football fan wakes up to.

During UC's dream 2009 football season I was at the UC-Illinois game. UC whooped them good (Illinois was pretty awful). I thought it was funny that a lot of fans I was around took that opportunity to loudly declare that victory as proof of UC's superiority to OSU that year. It's not like I saw any people in OSU gear around Nippert (although in less-stellar years that was often the case). Also, it's not like OSU struggled with Illinois that year, although I admit I had similar thoughts. This was the year of the bUCkeye state t-shirts, after all.

Anyways, yes there are plenty of reasons why it will never happen. And I don't think that the word "scared" is really appropriate to apply to OSU -- as was mentioned they play a rough OOC basketball schedule next year -- but there is an element of that in play. OSU loves their top-dog status in-state, and they don't want to jeopardize that. Whether they admit it or not, that's definitely a factor at some level in all of this.

To UC fans, it's as if OSU isn't fighting fair and tries to stack the deck to impose the status quo that OSU has excelled in. Kind of like Gee being the top opposition to a playoff system in football. It's impossible to believe any of Gee's reasons when the current system is so beneficial to OSU.

Brutus
06-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Nice article. I loved the Larry Siegfried part.

Man this would be a really great, heated rivalry. The big brother/little brother dynamic, the history of animosity and purported attempts at sabotage -- it would have a chance of eclipsing UC-X for UC fans, and that's saying a lot.

It will obviously never eclipse OSU-UM for OSU fans. But the football teams do play in 2012. I'm a UC fan so obviously I'd like to see them win, which would be momentous as the first OSU in-state loss in forever. That's basically the fever dream that every UC football fan wakes up to.

During UC's dream 2009 football season I was at the UC-Illinois game. UC whooped them good (Illinois was pretty awful). I thought it was funny that a lot of fans I was around took that opportunity to loudly declare that victory as proof of UC's superiority to OSU that year. It's not like I saw any people in OSU gear around Nippert (although in less-stellar years that was often the case). Also, it's not like OSU struggled with Illinois that year, although I admit I had similar thoughts. This was the year of the bUCkeye state t-shirts, after all.

Anyways, yes there are plenty of reasons why it will never happen. And I don't think that the word "scared" is really appropriate to apply to OSU -- as was mentioned they play a rough OOC basketball schedule next year -- but there is an element of that in play. OSU loves their top-dog status in-state, and they don't want to jeopardize that. Whether they admit it or not, that's definitely a factor at some level in all of this.

To UC fans, it's as if OSU isn't fighting fair and tries to stack the deck to impose the status quo that OSU has excelled in. Kind of like Gee being the top opposition to a playoff system in football. It's impossible to believe any of Gee's reasons when the current system is so beneficial to OSU.

I have no doubt there's at least something of an ego by Ohio State preventing the series. I just don't think it's being worried about Cincinnati catching up to them as much as the kind of stuff you see in high school when the popular kid doesn't want to be seen in the cafeteria with the unpopular table. There's no real good reason for it, just the way cliques operate.

In the past five years, though, I know definitively that Ohio State isn't playing, in part, for other reasons. And Mick knows those reasons too, though it won't stop him from lobbing grenades in public as if he's ignorant on the subject. Suffice to say, Cronin is a good coach, but his mouth gets him into trouble quite a bit.

jredmo2
06-03-2011, 01:43 PM
I have no doubt there's at least something of an ego by Ohio State preventing the series. I just don't think it's being worried about Cincinnati catching up to them as much as the kind of stuff you see in high school when the popular kid doesn't want to be seen in the cafeteria with the unpopular table. There's no real good reason for it, just the way cliques operate.

In the past five years, though, I know definitively that Ohio State isn't playing, in part, for other reasons. And Mick knows those reasons too, though it won't stop him from lobbing grenades in public as if he's ignorant on the subject. Suffice to say, Cronin is a good coach, but his mouth gets him into trouble quite a bit.

Well, if you take the longview, UC's majors sports are basically back from the brink. Before Huggins it was pretty bleak. Yes, they had the two national championships, but that doesn't really help sustain a program. Let's not forget that UC lost the national championship the following year to that perennial powerhouse, Loyola Chicago.

So I think, on UC's side, there is a lot of envy. I mean, a sizable chunk of UC's student population openly roots for OSU, and that is definitely not true vice versa. And despite recent success, UC still struggles with attendance, which a lot of UC supporters surely attribute to the OSU effect.

As far as Mick goes, he's actually probably better off shooting his mouth off regarding OSU. It only serves to rile up UC's fan base, which is something they need. And considering that a lot of UC fans, even after last year, are still underwhelmed with Mick, it helps sell the fact that Mick is (and clearly has been for some time) a completely devoted Bearcat guy. Hell, he might as well at this point just openly admit to ratting out OSU in 1993. In the sense that if negotiating a game with OSU doesn't work, you might as well openly instigate them and see if that does it. Now, that probably wouldn't work much better, but at least it wins him a lot of points with the UC diehards.

But I think you're hinting at something a little seedier regarding the Gates recruitment? I can't really find anything, mind filling me in?

GoReds33
06-03-2011, 02:14 PM
Well, if you take the longview, UC's majors sports are basically back from the brink. Before Huggins it was pretty bleak. Yes, they had the two national championships, but that doesn't really help sustain a program. Let's not forget that UC lost the national championship the following year to that perennial powerhouse, Loyola Chicago.

So I think, on UC's side, there is a lot of envy. I mean, a sizable chunk of UC's student population openly roots for OSU, and that is definitely not true vice versa. And despite recent success, UC still struggles with attendance, which a lot of UC supporters surely attribute to the OSU effect.

As far as Mick goes, he's actually probably better off shooting his mouth off regarding OSU. It only serves to rile up UC's fan base, which is something they need. And considering that a lot of UC fans, even after last year, are still underwhelmed with Mick, it helps sell the fact that Mick is (and clearly has been for some time) a completely devoted Bearcat guy. Hell, he might as well at this point just openly admit to ratting out OSU in 1993. In the sense that if negotiating a game with OSU doesn't work, you might as well openly instigate them and see if that does it. Now, that probably wouldn't work much better, but at least it wins him a lot of points with the UC diehards.

But I think you're hinting at something a little seedier regarding the Gates recruitment? I can't really find anything, mind filling me in?
UC fans already view this series as a David and Golliath type battle. It's not as if they are saying that a victory over OSU would make UC the perennial powerhouse. However, much of the anger on the UC side comes from the way Ohio State has seemingly been afraid of UC when UC is good. The 1990's were a time when a series between the schools could have benefited both parties involved. Instead, OSU waited until after the program was in pieces to play UC on national television, and embarrass the "little brother." Even now, OSU won't schedule a game because they wouldn't want the embarrassment of the little brother beating them.

Ohio State never has a problem scheduling games against the smaller scchools in Ohio. They take advantage of teams like Akron and Youngstown State. It's fair to say that if Youngstown State became a national power, Ohio State would do their best either not to schedule them, or schedule them on a drastically lopsided basis.

OSU and UC should play on a yearly basis in a home-and-home situation. The excuses that both parties have used over the years as to why a series is not scheduled are getting old.

Brutus
06-03-2011, 02:24 PM
Well, if you take the longview, UC's majors sports are basically back from the brink. Before Huggins it was pretty bleak. Yes, they had the two national championships, but that doesn't really help sustain a program. Let's not forget that UC lost the national championship the following year to that perennial powerhouse, Loyola Chicago.

So I think, on UC's side, there is a lot of envy. I mean, a sizable chunk of UC's student population openly roots for OSU, and that is definitely not true vice versa. And despite recent success, UC still struggles with attendance, which a lot of UC supporters surely attribute to the OSU effect.

As far as Mick goes, he's actually probably better off shooting his mouth off regarding OSU. It only serves to rile up UC's fan base, which is something they need. And considering that a lot of UC fans, even after last year, are still underwhelmed with Mick, it helps sell the fact that Mick is (and clearly has been for some time) a completely devoted Bearcat guy. Hell, he might as well at this point just openly admit to ratting out OSU in 1993. In the sense that if negotiating a game with OSU doesn't work, you might as well openly instigate them and see if that does it. Now, that probably wouldn't work much better, but at least it wins him a lot of points with the UC diehards.

But I think you're hinting at something a little seedier regarding the Gates recruitment? I can't really find anything, mind filling me in?

He made some accusatory statements about the recruitment of Gates, though I don't know if he's ever said them publicly or not. They weren't received well by Ohio State, though. There's no love lost between Cronin and Matta... let's put it that way lol

bucksfan2
06-03-2011, 02:41 PM
UC fans already view this series as a David and Golliath type battle. It's not as if they are saying that a victory over OSU would make UC the perennial powerhouse. However, much of the anger on the UC side comes from the way Ohio State has seemingly been afraid of UC when UC is good. The 1990's were a time when a series between the schools could have benefited both parties involved. Instead, OSU waited until after the program was in pieces to play UC on national television, and embarrass the "little brother." Even now, OSU won't schedule a game because they wouldn't want the embarrassment of the little brother beating them.

Ohio State never has a problem scheduling games against the smaller scchools in Ohio. They take advantage of teams like Akron and Youngstown State. It's fair to say that if Youngstown State became a national power, Ohio State would do their best either not to schedule them, or schedule them on a drastically lopsided basis.

OSU and UC should play on a yearly basis in a home-and-home situation. The excuses that both parties have used over the years as to why a series is not scheduled are getting old.

Being from Cincinnati but an OSU grad there really isn't much animosity towards UC up in Columbus. I don't really mean this to sound like an insult but they are an after thought when it comes to basketball or football. In football there are obviously more bitter rivals and in basketball you have the likes of MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, and a slew of other national powers they play every season.

For years OSU has tried to spread the wealth around in football. They have played pretty much every in state D1 football school on a rotation and even given a home date to some of the schools. It was more a financial move by OSU to benefit the other state universities than it was a competitive issue. Before UC moved to the Big East there was no incentive to play a CUSA team over a MAC team.

I don't really know if there is a big brother little brother issue going on in Columbus. I know a few years ago when UC went undefeated in the regular season UC fans sure had a fun time playing that up. The bUCkeye State was in good fun until UF came along. I root for UC sports in every game except when they would play OSU. I would like to see a rivalry renewed in Basketball and even football for that matter. But as a UC fan I would also like to see UK and UC begin to play more often than once every 25 years.

GoReds33
06-03-2011, 10:54 PM
Being from Cincinnati but an OSU grad there really isn't much animosity towards UC up in Columbus. I don't really mean this to sound like an insult but they are an after thought when it comes to basketball or football. In football there are obviously more bitter rivals and in basketball you have the likes of MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, and a slew of other national powers they play every season.

For years OSU has tried to spread the wealth around in football. They have played pretty much every in state D1 football school on a rotation and even given a home date to some of the schools. It was more a financial move by OSU to benefit the other state universities than it was a competitive issue. Before UC moved to the Big East there was no incentive to play a CUSA team over a MAC team.

I don't really know if there is a big brother little brother issue going on in Columbus. I know a few years ago when UC went undefeated in the regular season UC fans sure had a fun time playing that up. The bUCkeye State was in good fun until UF came along. I root for UC sports in every game except when they would play OSU. I would like to see a rivalry renewed in Basketball and even football for that matter. But as a UC fan I would also like to see UK and UC begin to play more often than once every 25 years.
I just don't see how it's fair for OSU to have a scheduled game against UC, only to pay a million dollars to get out of it once they realized that UC football wasn't awful for once. Obviously OSU was still the better team, but they wouldn't give UC the chance is what I'm saying.

It's ridiculous to think that OSU and UC shouldn't be playing yearly atleast in basketball. There are a number of open schedule spots for each team every year. The rivalry would be spirited in that it's the only major sport that UC can compete with OSU in on a yearly basis.

BPhil4
06-04-2011, 02:40 AM
It just doesn't make sense, in football, to do a home and home with UC. Home football games at osu pay for almost every other sport. So to give up another home game doesn't make sense. Especially when osu knows that the game will be played at Paul brown and osu will have more then half the crowd, yet not reap the money from it.

In basketball, I don't see why they can't play. Osu losing wouldn't hurt them in recruiting much either. Matta recruits nationally now more then ever.

bucksfan2
06-06-2011, 02:35 PM
I just don't see how it's fair for OSU to have a scheduled game against UC, only to pay a million dollars to get out of it once they realized that UC football wasn't awful for once. Obviously OSU was still the better team, but they wouldn't give UC the chance is what I'm saying

I don't think it had much to do with UC getting good. They paid $1M to get out of the game because of the amount of money a home football game brings in to Columbus. The program is budgeted on certain number of home games per year. This was also at the same time when UC was selling their home and home back to Virgina Tech for money and playing UT in a one and done for money. Yet for some reason OSU gets all of the UC's fans backlash for "ducking UC".

SeeinRed
06-06-2011, 04:10 PM
I don't think it had much to do with UC getting good. They paid $1M to get out of the game because of the amount of money a home football game brings in to Columbus. The program is budgeted on certain number of home games per year. This was also at the same time when UC was selling their home and home back to Virgina Tech for money and playing UT in a one and done for money. Yet for some reason OSU gets all of the UC's fans backlash for "ducking UC".

The reason OSU gets the backlash is because OSU approached UC, not the other way around. OSU didn't even want to buy out the game, they wanted to pull out all together. UC had to negotiate to get the game moved to Columbus to keep from losing the game. It was not the same as Virginia Tech or UT. Thats not to say that OSU only wanted out of the game to "duck" UC, but it was likely a contributing issue.

paintmered
06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
Yes, OSU opted out of the 2012 return to Paul Brown. UC then approached OSU to play the game anyways, and that's when they came to terms on the $1M payout to have the game in Columbus. This, combined with OSU only playing UC in basketball when UC had one-letter winner on the roster to play leaves a very bad taste in the mouth of UC fans.

As for Va Tech, the return game was to occur this season, but Va Tech delayed the game a year (UC didn't purposely schedule them and OSU in the same non-conference schedule). UC moved the game to DC because they needed the money, plain and simple.

Tennesse was a case of both teams had to fill a hole in their schedule (courtesy of Va Tech moving from 2011 to 2012).