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View Full Version : Welp, giving up on another one



mrherd05
06-04-2011, 07:39 PM
Guess Crusty is "hoping" for another win huh.

Some questions...

1. Why take out Massett, Dusty complains about his young pitchers early in games not limiting runs to 1 or 2 an inning, and they get shelled, yet, he pulled Massett out, Massett wasnt going to give up five runs.

2. He later brought in Ondrusek, knowing that one of two things was going to happen, 1. he would get out of the inning, and coco would have pitched the ninth, or 2. he would get rocked. Why not bring Coco in four a four out save. Why does Coco ONLY have to pitch the ninth in this morons mind.

3. Our bullpen is getting overworked cause numbnuts doesnt know how to use it....and because of that, here we are, in the 11th, with Carlos Fisher and a double A pitcher is all that is left.

Unreal

mrherd05
06-04-2011, 07:40 PM
I hate him...hate him...hate him...hate him...hate him...hate him.

Redeye fly
06-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Guess Crusty is "hoping" for another win huh.

Some questions...

1. Why take out Massett, Dusty complains about his young pitchers early in games not limiting runs to 1 or 2 an inning, and they get shelled, yet, he pulled Massett out, Massett wasnt going to give up five runs.
Agree completely with this.

2. He later brought in Ondrusek, knowing that one of two things was going to happen, 1. he would get out of the inning, and coco would have pitched the ninth, or 2. he would get rocked. Why not bring Coco in four a four out save. Why does Coco ONLY have to pitch the ninth in this morons mind.You can "blame" Dusty for a lot of things and rant and rave after a tough loss... no a downright embarrassing loss. But if you're going to blame Dusty on this point as far as bringing Cordero in earlier, than Dusty has a lot of company. Many managers look at their closer as only a 9th inning guy and almost never bring them in earlier unless multiple runs have already crossed the plate.


3. Our bullpen is getting overworked cause numbnuts doesnt know how to use it....and because of that, here we are, in the 11th, with Carlos Fisher and a double A pitcher is all that is left.

Unreal

Nothing really to say here. Obviously you created a separate thread to vent before the game was over. Mostly our bullpen has gotten overworked because the starting pitchers have an ERA of over 5.00. That will lead to your bullpen being overworked, regardless of how the manager uses it.

Maker_84
06-04-2011, 08:27 PM
again..... dusty is pretty bad, but it's not like he has the best talent to work with. I thought he did at the beginning of the season but alot of them have turned out to be frauds

DocRed
06-04-2011, 08:30 PM
Dusty is what he is......a very bad manager!!!!!

mrherd05
06-04-2011, 08:58 PM
Sorry for breaking protocol and posting a thread about the game rather than navigating through 800 posts in a game thread...my bad. All the rules here are crazy.

It is overworked, and overused, and there is no one left because of the way he manages it.

Today was prime example.

Why didnt Coco pitch two innings.

kfm
06-04-2011, 09:44 PM
So just so I understand this correctly. Dusty brings in a guy with an era under two who has dominated lefties to face a lefty and then brings in another guy with an era under two who throws a lot of groundballs and this constitutes him being an idiot. Then he supposedly overuses his bullpen, which I suppose has nothing to with the inability of starters to go deep into games it is just Dusty's preference to take them out so he can put in relievers for kicks. Then to top it off he who "overuses" his bullpen is an idiot because he did not bring in his closer to throw two innings. Really. Look Dusty does things from time to time that make everyone scratch their head, but if this is a manager being an idiot because of these moves then people should just stop watching the games because baseball is only full of idiot managers who would have done the exact same thing. At some point, players have to be held responsible for what they do and what they don't do and the players let this one get away. This is among the silliest criticsms I have ever read on this board. Sad, just sad.

Stray
06-04-2011, 09:50 PM
How is today Dusty's fault?

He managed to win the game. Masset created a problem, he brought in our lefty specialist to get a lefty out and he walked him. So he goes to our most reliable reliever and he gives up a grand slam.

Not much a manager can do about that. The bullpen just stunk this game up and it's a shame because Cueto pitched a gem.

KYRedLeg
06-04-2011, 09:54 PM
snip

Shhhh! There's no room for logic, haven't you noticed the sky is falling??? We've gotta DFA the lineup, fire Dusty, and sell the team!!!

:rolleyes:

mrherd05
06-04-2011, 09:54 PM
Close the game with your closer....thats how. Ondrusek is NOT our closer...CoCo is...period. RUnning through the pen like he did caused us to get Fisher'd ....again.

Stray
06-04-2011, 10:03 PM
When you have a 7-2 lead you manage to win the game, not to protect if it goes to extras. We were let down be some very reliable guys. It happens. And to be honest, I loved going to Ondrusek there and not Coco. Logan usually does a good job at getting us out of jams.

When we go out and win tomorrow that will be 2 series in a row and a huge step in the right direction.

will5979
06-04-2011, 10:06 PM
**** the 2011 Reds, I'm sick of them causing me bouts of depression.

mu4103
06-04-2011, 10:51 PM
One loss. The Reds are good at bouncing back. A painful loss, but the Reds will bounce back. Bullpens blow up sometime. Really, I have been impressed with the Reds SP. I didn't think Bailey was very good and Arroyo continues to pitch well. The only error I see is pulling SPers too fast recently.

Vottomatic
06-05-2011, 12:15 PM
It is Dusty's fault that the bullpen is overworked.

When you're starters aren't going 6 innings, you let the relievers pitch more than one inning. Instead of using 4 or 5 relievers to finish a 9 inning game, you use maybe 2 or 3. It's so simple, no wonder Dusty doesn't get it.

Cordero should have come out for another inning, but Dusty is too hardheaded and stupid for his own demise and the Reds demise.

TheBigLebowski
06-05-2011, 12:38 PM
Look, I'm no more apt to blame the loss last night on Dusty than any other rational person, but the fact is, he mismanages his bullpen. I don't see how that point can be argued.

Redeye fly
06-05-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't think there's an easy answer to Cordero should have gone out there for another inning.

What if he does? Okay, that's fine. But all that does is maybe keep the Dodgers from scoring for another inning. We still have to score to win.

What if Cordero pitches the 11th too, and the Dodgers don't score?

Ok, so what if we don't score in the bottom of the 11th? I know we did,but we're dealing in hypotheticals all the way around here.

So, we go to the 12th inning with the game still tied, we bring in Fisher and we still lose.

I think once a game goes to extra innings, it's for the most part out of the manager's control who wins or loses. It probably falls 90% on the players. Truthfully, it falls 90% on the players even before extra innings, but once you go beyond 9, that's something no one really anticipates until maybe the 7th inning at the earliest.

Point being that once a game goes extra's, there's not a whole lot the manager can do either way to win or lose that particular game. It falls very much on the players.

BAKER12
06-05-2011, 01:00 PM
Amazing
When the Reds win, the players do it despite the manager
When the Reds lose, every game it's time to bash the manager
I really wish the constant bashers and haters could see how idiotic they appear to the majority of the fans
It's comical, yet sad
The hatred for Dusty is sadly beyond baseball reasons and strategy, he manages like many other guys....
Being critical in defeat is (I guess if the reasons are rational) acceptable
Never giving the guy any credit for success shows the true haters
I would say enjoy the baseball season, but for a some of you that's impossible

kfm
06-05-2011, 07:02 PM
Amazing
When the Reds win, the players do it despite the manager
When the Reds lose, every game it's time to bash the manager
I really wish the constant bashers and haters could see how idiotic they appear to the majority of the fans
It's comical, yet sad
The hatred for Dusty is sadly beyond baseball reasons and strategy, he manages like many other guys....
Being critical in defeat is (I guess if the reasons are rational) acceptable
Never giving the guy any credit for success shows the true haters
I would say enjoy the baseball season, but for a some of you that's impossible

Great post. This is the simple reality, but you are right it will be lost on the I hate Dusty Baker fan club. Nothing is the players fault, they don't score because of the batting order, the bullpen is overworked not because of the innings the starters are not pitching but because Dusty doesn't use the individual relievers enough during a game (hmm??). Until the starters consistently pitch well and deeper into games the bullpen is going to be overused whether or not they use five guys or two guys to finish off games because the number of innings is the actual problem. The Reds problem right now is starting pitching just like it was when Dunn and Griffey were here, but we know how the Dunn and Griffey haters felt about that argument back then too.

kfm
06-05-2011, 07:05 PM
Look, I'm no more apt to blame the loss last night on Dusty than any other rational person, but the fact is, he mismanages his bullpen. I don't see how that point can be argued.

If that is the case, and I am actually open to having my mind changed about the use of his bullpen, please provide some concrete examples that demonstrate that your point of view is inarguable, and also provide what he should have done instead.