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View Full Version : Only 1 person can turn this team around..



brm7675
06-06-2011, 12:16 PM
We stand at 30-30 and at a point with the upcoming schedule of tough AL games ahead that come July 1 we will either be in or out of it. To me at this point there is only 1 man who can turn this team around. It is time for the owner Bob C. to step up to the plate and either hit a homerun or K. He either needs to pull Walt into his office and explain to him "nicely" to make some key moves and changes or begin planning for the coming seasons. We need our owner to be willing to add a few dollars and eat a few dollars in contracts to get this team going right. Bob wants a winner in cincy....wonder if he is willing to do what is needed to get that done, we have about 24 days to find out...

Krawhitham
06-06-2011, 12:38 PM
You have to trade talent to get talent

Who do you trade?

brm7675
06-06-2011, 01:02 PM
You have to trade talent to get talent

Who do you trade?

Depends on whom the opposing team want. There is right now only about 3-4 Reds that are "untouchable" to me and they would be:

Votto
Bruce
Cuteo
Phillips

Everyone else I would listen to and consider "IF" the return was good enough. I would stay away from "rentals" and understand payroll must increase a bit.

Kevin1476
06-06-2011, 02:12 PM
I would think that before we consider a move as far as a trade, we should make some moves from AAA to the Reds. Before I would ship anyone for a left fielder I would at least give Frazier , Alonso and Sapplet ( when healthy) a shot out there. I would Love to have Reyes but I would not give up 3 to 5 good players. Last I checked we have a second round draft pick at SS in Louisville, who is doing pretty darn good. Cozart needs to be given an opportunity. The moves I would want to see our promotions and only make trades for pitching, which everyone needs. Just my opinion!

brm7675
06-06-2011, 02:14 PM
I would think that before we consider a move as far as a trade, we should make some moves from AAA to the Reds. Before I would ship anyone for a left fielder I would at least give Frazier , Alonso and Sapplet ( when healthy) a shot out there. I would Love to have Reyes but I would not give up 3 to 5 good players. Last I checked we have a second round draft pick at SS in Louisville, who is doing pretty darn good. Cozart needs to be given an opportunity. The moves I would want to see our promotions and only make trades for pitching, which everyone needs. Just my opinion!

I agree, but the issue is Dusty won't play them. So...either our owner goes to Walt and "instructs" him to "instruct" Dusty on what to do, or there is no real reason to bring them up.

Kevin1476
06-06-2011, 02:20 PM
You are right Dusty is a stubborn man, If we had the guys I suggested up here they would probably be sitting while Gomes and Janish contiue to struggle and they would be pitch hitters like Heisey. So they are probably better off in Louisville getting their at bats!

Vottomatic
06-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Dusty sticking with Gomes forever might be why this team is 5 games out.

Kingspoint
06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
This isn't rocket science.

Our pitching needs to improve dramatically, both in the bullpen and in the starting staff.

Adding a solid veteran or two via a trade would be great.

BAKER12
06-06-2011, 05:27 PM
Dusty sticking with Gomes forever might be why this team is 5 games out.

RIDICULOUS
Maybe the crappy starting pitching and lack of consistent bullpen had a part in this

BAKER12
06-06-2011, 05:29 PM
You are right Dusty is a stubborn man, If we had the guys I suggested up here they would probably be sitting while Gomes and Janish contiue to struggle and they would be pitch hitters like Heisey. So they are probably better off in Louisville getting their at bats!

Bruce, Votto, Stubbs all young guys that have been given everyday jobs by Dusty

The rap about him not liking young players does not stick

brm7675
06-06-2011, 05:53 PM
Bruce, Votto, Stubbs all young guys that have been given everyday jobs by Dusty

The rap about him not liking young players does not stick

Bruce was the golden child, and had to be played, Votto sat behind Scott H and missed out on playing time and how many retreads did Dusty put in CF before going with Stubbs. For anyone to say that playing Gomes/Edgar and now to a point Rolen (Full time) over better young players just need to have their eyes checked. There is zero logic why Gomes and Edgar are even on the team and big questions why Rolen is getting the number of starts he has so far.

lonewolf371
06-06-2011, 06:06 PM
Bruce was the golden child, and had to be played, Votto sat behind Scott H and missed out on playing time and how many retreads did Dusty put in CF before going with Stubbs. For anyone to say that playing Gomes/Edgar and now to a point Rolen (Full time) over better young players just need to have their eyes checked. There is zero logic why Gomes and Edgar are even on the team and big questions why Rolen is getting the number of starts he has so far.
To be honest, I'd rather have old guys play too long than rush young guys before they're ready. I wonder how the careers of Jeff Francoeur, Jonny Gomes, and Delmon Young could have been different if they hadn't hit the bigs so early...

BluegrassRedleg
06-06-2011, 06:45 PM
This isn't rocket science.

Our pitching needs to improve dramatically, both in the bullpen and in the starting staff.

Adding a solid veteran or two via a trade would be great.

Far too simplistic. There have been times when the pitching was outstanding, and they got nothing from a wildly inconsistent offense. They're playing with a 5-man lineup right now, getting nothing whatsoever from LF, 3B and SS.

tobttr
06-06-2011, 07:34 PM
In March. I NEVER thought I would be saying this, but the Reds need starting pitching. Cueto seems to be OK and there is precedent to indicate that Arroyo will be fine, but nobody else is getting people out. That's 60% of the games that the Reds offense needs to imitate the 27 Yankees to have a chance.

brm7675
06-06-2011, 07:49 PM
In March. I NEVER thought I would be saying this, but the Reds need starting pitching. Cueto seems to be OK and there is precedent to indicate that Arroyo will be fine, but nobody else is getting people out. That's 60% of the games that the Reds offense needs to imitate the 27 Yankees to have a chance.

I think both Wood and Leake will be fine. Will they have rough outings, sure both are young and inexperienced so they will have bumps in the road. The problem lies with Bailey and his health and EV and his mental approach. If both of them were at 100% then I don't think we are having the issues. I also think that the 19 inning game followed up by other extra inning games has really done damage to the pitching staff as a whole. Also, losing both Lecure and Malloney was alot bigger then I think many thought.

Vottomatic
06-06-2011, 08:03 PM
Bruce, Votto, Stubbs all young guys that have been given everyday jobs by Dusty

The rap about him not liking young players does not stick

Hey Dusty,

Don't you have anything better to do than go on Redszone and defend yourself? How about looking up Gomes batting average against righties this year.........I think it's around .160 with 40+ K's in like 120 at-bats.

Get a frickin' clue Dusty.

Kingspoint
06-06-2011, 10:08 PM
Hey Dusty,

Don't you have anything better to do than go on Redszone and defend yourself? How about looking up Gomes batting average against righties this year.........I think it's around .160 with 40+ K's in like 120 at-bats.

Get a frickin' clue Dusty.

That's better than Adam Dunn against Lefties......ofer 40!!! Sure glad we don't have Dunn on this team playing Left Field.

Vottomatic
06-06-2011, 10:18 PM
That's better than Adam Dunn against Lefties......ofer 40!!! Sure glad we don't have Dunn on this team playing Left Field.

Yeah, I have a thread started about Adam Dunn's struggles this year. And the ChiSox have him signed to a big contract through '14. Yikes.

mr. red
06-07-2011, 12:12 AM
We need a true ace and we do not have that right now. Cueto, Bailey, and Leake are nice pieces, but a real #1 would be a start in getting this team going in the right direction from a pitching stand point.

webbbj
06-07-2011, 12:33 AM
To be honest, I'd rather have old guys play too long than rush young guys before they're ready. I wonder how the careers of Jeff Francoeur, Jonny Gomes, and Delmon Young could have been different if they hadn't hit the bigs so early...

they would be in the same position or worse right now.

lonewolf371
06-07-2011, 12:47 AM
they would be in the same position or worse right now.
You don't know that. If they'd spent more time on the bench, waited longer, it might have been different. The Rays have been one of the most successful teams in baseball recently by standing pat every year and not promoting guys too soon. Maybe you should look at them.

webbbj
06-07-2011, 12:56 AM
You don't know that. If they'd spent more time on the bench, waited longer, it might have been different. The Rays have been one of the most successful teams in baseball recently by standing pat every year and not promoting guys too soon. Maybe you should look at them.

or they just waste time beating up on competition less than par when they could be learning to hit ML pitching and learning the game being around the best players and coaches.

gedred69
06-07-2011, 12:59 AM
brm, I agree on Lecure, big blow. I Can't blame Dusty for the Hatteberg/Votto issue though. Watching Votto in Spring training the year before he got the call, It was "My God, this guy has nothing left to prove at AAA. Front office, Krivsky/Walt? made the decision to keep Hatteberg thus stunting Votto, not Dusty..

lonewolf371
06-07-2011, 02:59 AM
or they just waste time beating up on competition less than par when they could be learning to hit ML pitching and learning the game being around the best players and coaches.
Hey, the Rays are successful; everyone else that promotes early isn't as successful, at least not with their farm system. That's just the way it is, bud. Maybe everyone else should copy them.

BAKER12
06-07-2011, 05:27 AM
Hey Dusty,

Don't you have anything better to do than go on Redszone and defend yourself? How about looking up Gomes batting average against righties this year.........I think it's around .160 with 40+ K's in like 120 at-bats.

Get a frickin' clue Dusty.

Comparing me to Dusty is the nicest thing anyone can do. I appreciate that greatly. To be in the company of an elite ballplayer and manager is awesome. Thank you so much. Gomes was horrible tonight against the Cubs, hope he keeps up this shoddy play for a while;)

webbbj
06-07-2011, 08:58 AM
Hey, the Rays are successful; everyone else that promotes early isn't as successful, at least not with their farm system. That's just the way it is, bud. Maybe everyone else should copy them.

ur talking about an entire team. but for individual player development seeing as much big league pitching as possible is gonna yield a higher return sooner. The rays keep guys in the minors more for contractual reason, not the player isnt ready, or they keep them there if they arent gonna play everyday.

take stubbs for example it was better off he got a full season of ML play last year as opposed to the minors for his development. But in heisey's case if they werent gonna play him everyday (they should have and should now) they shoulda just let him play everyday in the minors

lonewolf371
06-07-2011, 03:31 PM
ur talking about an entire team. but for individual player development seeing as much big league pitching as possible is gonna yield a higher return sooner. The rays keep guys in the minors more for contractual reason, not the player isnt ready, or they keep them there if they arent gonna play everyday.

take stubbs for example it was better off he got a full season of ML play last year as opposed to the minors for his development. But in heisey's case if they werent gonna play him everyday (they should have and should now) they shoulda just let him play everyday in the minors
The Rays do keep players down for contractual reasons, but that's only the AAA to the majors promotion. They also keep guys down at AA, A+, A- for longer than most teams because they see rushing players up as a possible way to ruin top prospects.

That depends on how good Heisey is going to get. So far he hasn't looked great outside of pinch hitting situations. If his potential is just that of a 4th outfielder, he's already advanced as far as he's going to get.

webbbj
06-07-2011, 07:49 PM
take drew stubbs for example.

basically what im getting at is a guy like him was better off playing the entire year in the MLB as it was better able to prepare him.

If he played all last year in AAA i think his growth is stunted a bit since he would be spending this year what he was trying to learn last year.

now his numbers this year and last year are pretty similar but hes been more consistent this year. he was allowed to bat .186 in april, .230 in june, .213 in july.

then august, he batted .296 then september .311

Hypothetically if he were to play the first 4 months of the season in AAA would he be ready to come in those last 2 months and bat over .300?

Kingspoint
06-07-2011, 07:55 PM
Volquez has the capability of turning this team around.

Now that he's gotten rid of those stupid-looking dredlocks, he can be taken a little more seriously.

Vottomatic
06-07-2011, 08:01 PM
Comparing me to Dusty is the nicest thing anyone can do. I appreciate that greatly. To be in the company of an elite ballplayer and manager is awesome. Thank you so much. Gomes was horrible tonight against the Cubs, hope he keeps up this shoddy play for a while;)

Typical Dusty. Gomes has one good game and suddenly he's the saviour.

His .190 batting average certainly has Albert Pujols name written all over it. Gomes is the second coming, in your eyes.

Being compared to Dusty Baker isn't a compliment. But that's why you continually fail to get it.

brm7675
06-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Volquez has the capability of turning this team around.

Now that he's gotten rid of those stupid-looking dredlocks, he can be taken a little more seriously.

your kidding right? What does his hair have to do with anything? Also exactly what was the purpose of sending him to AAA for just 2 outings?

Kingspoint
06-07-2011, 11:45 PM
your kidding right? What does his hair have to do with anything? Also exactly what was the purpose of sending him to AAA for just 2 outings?

Like most of us here, I'm sure the REDS had every intention of sending him down for 4-6 starts, so they could have him healthier when the end of the season comes around (he is recovering from his surgery still). But, the plethora of injuries to our starters made the decision for them that he had to return earlier than they wanted. He's here to stay. Great performance tonight.

Like burning away one's past transgressions (a spiritual moment for changing one's life), dumping those awful child-like dred-locks might make him a changed person, too. It's enough of a change to get a spiritual lift out of it if done in a positive manner for a positive reason.

It's like he's been baptized and re-born.

Cat Stevens before he was "re-born":

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vv48c_v8Y20/TX4GhFiKxxI/AAAAAAAALlU/DDgsqmHGZZc/s400/cat_sevens.jpg

Cat Stevens after he was "re-born":

http://files.isound.com/pics/c/a/cat_stevens.jpg

Then Cat Stevens forgot the reason why he was reborn.....Cat Stevens after he became a fanatic:

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/cat_stevens.jpg

brm7675
06-08-2011, 12:22 PM
Like most of us here, I'm sure the REDS had every intention of sending him down for 4-6 starts, so they could have him healthier when the end of the season comes around (he is recovering from his surgery still). But, the plethora of injuries to our starters made the decision for them that he had to return earlier than they wanted. He's here to stay. Great performance tonight.



A. As we were playing the Cubs, I think Chris Reinke could have started for us and we would have done fine.

B. It was a good outing not great. Way to many pitches thrown early in the game, he still is nitpicking around the plate way to much.

C. It was against the Cubs. Lets see how he does in SF this weekend.