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View Full Version : You wonder how true this is...would you do it?



brm7675
06-08-2011, 04:59 PM
Hal McCoy, Dayton Daily News
It appears the Padres are willing to trade outfielder Ryan Ludwick and would do oit straight up for outfielder Chris Heisey or take some minor-league prospects for him. Ludwick and Redsí general manager Walt Jocketty already have a history: Jocketty signed him as a free agent for the St. Louis Cardinals in December, 2006.

AintlifeGrande
06-08-2011, 05:07 PM
Interesting offer.San Diego is the death knell for power hitters.Heisey straight up for Ludwick,you would have to pull the trigger.Rusty, as I call him, refuse's to give Heisey a chance in LF,so I would make the trade.Ludwick would rake at GABP.

Vottomatic
06-08-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm not a fan of Ludwick, but read somewhere that he has one of the higher batting averages with RISP. Says he loves to hit with men on base.

AintlifeGrande
06-08-2011, 05:22 PM
Question is will he make the switch to LF?

DocRed
06-08-2011, 05:29 PM
yes

Maker_84
06-08-2011, 05:33 PM
i might do it, but it wouldn't help this team that much, if at all

RedsFan_26
06-08-2011, 05:42 PM
I would do it in a heart beat, although we would owe Ludwick 4 million for the rest of this year, a power bat to split up the lefties (Bruce and Votto) and could bat 4th. I love the idea.

brm7675
06-08-2011, 05:45 PM
i might do it, but it wouldn't help this team that much, if at all

How could it not help? His bat is lightyears better then Gomes...

Maker_84
06-08-2011, 05:53 PM
How could it not help? His bat is lightyears better then Gomes...

yes but Pitching has become our main problem now. Until we get some legitimate starters we aren't contending for anything.

brm7675
06-08-2011, 05:56 PM
yes but Pitching has become our main problem now. Until we get some legitimate starters we aren't contending for anything.

You are not going to find ACE pitching this year, what you can get is more help for your offense. You can also continue to work with the starters you have and watch them grow and improve.

signalhome
06-08-2011, 06:04 PM
yes but Pitching has become our main problem now. Until we get some legitimate starters we aren't contending for anything.

Doesn't matter what the main problem is, what matters is that LF is certainly a problem. Addressing the pitching problem would be ideal, but that doesn't mean you don't also try to address your other needs.

mu4103
06-08-2011, 06:06 PM
Ludwick is a legit hitter and I think would bolster the offense (not like Lewis or Gomes). If your not gonna play him - trade him.

DocRed
06-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Ludwick is an above average outfielder...that in itself is a huge upgrade over Lewis and Gomes. Well....at least average.

BluegrassRedleg
06-08-2011, 06:17 PM
If this organization considers Heisey to be its third option in LF (as demonstrated by this year's lineups) by all means you make that trade.

But, personally, I don't think Ludwick's any better than Heisey. Feels like the same player, given equal opportunity.

brm7675
06-08-2011, 06:19 PM
If this organization considers Heisey to be its third option in LF (as demonstrated by this year's lineups) by all means you make that trade.

But, personally, I don't think Ludwick's any better than Heisey. Feels like the same player, given equal opportunity.

the difference is I believe Dusty would play Ryan and we know he won't play Chris....to me that reason alone I would do the deal.

texasdave
06-08-2011, 07:23 PM
the difference is I believe Dusty would play Ryan and we know he won't play Chris....to me that reason alone I would do the deal.

This. And maybe Ludwick comes to GABP, gets reenergized and has a big second half.
But if Dusty isn't going to give Heisey consistent playing time, then it really is not much of a loss.

Vottomatic
06-08-2011, 08:21 PM
I'm not convinced that the Reds wouldn't acquire Ludwick, and Dusty wouldn't still be writing Gomes name in the lineup everyday for LF.

Only way I do the deal is if upper management mandates that they traded for Ludwick, are paying him more money than Gomes, and that HE WILL BE IN THE LINEUP EVERYDAY, barring injury.

ruREaDy2
06-08-2011, 08:29 PM
I say do it!

Ludwick would flat out rake here in Cincinnati. He would be a nice addition to our lineup.

brm7675
06-08-2011, 08:35 PM
I'm not convinced that the Reds wouldn't acquire Ludwick, and Dusty wouldn't still be writing Gomes name in the lineup everyday for LF.

Only way I do the deal is if upper management mandates that they traded for Ludwick, are paying him more money than Gomes, and that HE WILL BE IN THE LINEUP EVERYDAY, barring injury.

to me "if" and that is a huge "IF" the deal was done, it would be Walt telling Dusty basically that the LF position isn't producing and here is the player to do it. I don't think it will happen because I really believe both feel Gomes will come out of his inability to hit and find that magic that he had for months 1 and 2 of last year.....but then again I think both are so out of touch with reality it's not funny.

Vottomatic
06-08-2011, 08:46 PM
On the ORG, someone said that Ludwick is OPSing .822 outside of Petco park.

Heisey is OPSing less than .800 overall.

40YrRedsFan
06-08-2011, 09:50 PM
I don't like the idea of trading Heisey before he has been give a legitimate chance to play and show what he can do. I would hate to see Heisey make good somewhere else. I just don't know why Dusty won't let him play.

40YrRedsFan
06-08-2011, 10:00 PM
By now Dusty has seen plenty of Gomes and Lewis. He knows what they are and aren't going to do. It's time to let Heisey play. If you want Ludwick, trade someone from the minors. Besides, Ludwick is already 33. We already have Rolen and Renteria showing their age.

BEETTLEBUG
06-08-2011, 10:07 PM
True two lower prospects would get it done, but three if they pay some of contract and they take Gomes or Lewis.

redlegs2370
06-08-2011, 10:40 PM
I say pull the trigger, what does it hurt. Right now Joey is getting nothing to swing at. I also don't think Heisey is the long term answer. Ludwick has played in pennant races and knows how to win. If it doesn't work out, or Alonso proves in AAA that he can play left field then you let him walk. This also allows you to take some pressure off Rolen and allowing him to hit in the 6th spot.

mu4103
06-08-2011, 11:33 PM
My question is where did McCoy get this info. He uses no citations. He doesn't even say "a source within the organization." Where did he get the info? Kind of bad reporting it seems to me.

lonewolf371
06-09-2011, 12:19 AM
On the ORG, someone said that Ludwick is OPSing .822 outside of Petco park.

Heisey is OPSing less than .800 overall.
That's not even a meaningful difference. Heisey is six years younger and playing roughly just as well right now. I don't see the point in making this trade.

bshall2105
06-09-2011, 12:22 AM
That's not even a meaningful difference. Heisey is six years younger and playing roughly just as well right now. I don't see the point in making this trade.

If Dusty played Heisey then I dont see the point in the trade either but Dusty would play Ludwick so thats where the improvement comes from.

tobttr
06-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Pretty much in agreement with the consensus...Either 1) make the trade (if the info is credible and the trade could be done at all) or 2) Play Heisey.
The status quo just ain't workin'.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 12:41 PM
That's not even a meaningful difference. Heisey is six years younger and playing roughly just as well right now. I don't see the point in making this trade.

Real simple...Dusty doesn't like Heisey, won't play him, maybe with Ryan he will like him and play him.

krm1580
06-09-2011, 02:16 PM
For a minute lets ignore Ryan Ludwick's 2008 season which I think was a fluke, an anomally, a statical outlier, whatever you want to call it. What do you have?

What I see is a pretty mediocre guy who turns 33 in a month. Does anybody honestly believe that Joey Votto is suddenly going to see better pitches because the ominous presence of Ryan Ludwick on deck?

He is a marginal upgrade plus a rental. He does not fix anything long term and hardly provides the offense necessary to out slug our pitching problems.

People throw out names like Kemp or Beltran which I am not sure are realistic financially, but I get it. They are significant upgrades and would have a ripple effect up a down the lineup and those I can get behind. I have no interest in dabbling on the margins which is what Ludwick is.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 02:30 PM
For a minute lets ignore Ryan Ludwick's 2008 season which I think was a fluke, an anomally, a statical outlier, whatever you want to call it. What do you have?

What I see is a pretty mediocre guy who turns 33 in a month. Does anybody honestly believe that Joey Votto is suddenly going to see better pitches because the ominous presence of Ryan Ludwick on deck?

He is a marginal upgrade plus a rental. He does not fix anything long term and hardly provides the offense necessary to out slug our pitching problems.

People throw out names like Kemp or Beltran which I am not sure are realistic financially, but I get it. They are significant upgrades and would have a ripple effect up a down the lineup and those I can get behind. I have no interest in dabbling on the margins which is what Ludwick is.

Lets remember Ludwich is right now playing in one of the worst hitting parks in baseball in SD. While in Cincy his numbers would be better. Also he wouldn't or shouldn't be hitting 4th, he would be in teh 5 spot.

lonewolf371
06-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Lets remember Ludwich is right now playing in one of the worst hitting parks in baseball in SD. While in Cincy his numbers would be better. Also he wouldn't or shouldn't be hitting 4th, he would be in teh 5 spot.
So look at his stats from recent St. Louis years.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 03:11 PM
So look at his stats from recent St. Louis years.

I did and again lets remember Cincy is a hitters park. Lets also remember he is still better then Gomes and we would be getting him for basically nothing if it's Hesiey that we delt for him.

lonewolf371
06-09-2011, 03:13 PM
I did and again lets remember Cincy is a hitters park. Lets also remember he is still better then Gomes and we would be getting him for basically nothing if it's Hesiey that we delt for him.
It's just that Heisey might be a better player down the road and he's cheaper. He's about the same as Gomes offensively. The thought of doing this just reeks of making a move only for the sake of making a move.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 03:17 PM
It's just that Heisey might be a better player down the road and he's cheaper. He's about the same as Gomes offensively. The thought of doing this just reeks of making a move only for the sake of making a move.

To me this is a move to upgrade our LF position since our present manager doesn't see Heisey as the answer. Now Frazier or Yonder may be that answer next year, but for right now, it's hard to argue that Ludwick isn't an upgrade over Gomes or Lewis...

texasdave
06-09-2011, 03:21 PM
That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!

brm7675
06-09-2011, 03:24 PM
That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!

For some reason Dusty does seem to love that "Veteran Creaminess"....:laugh:

krm1580
06-09-2011, 03:47 PM
To me this is a move to upgrade our LF position since our present manager doesn't see Heisey as the answer. Now Frazier or Yonder may be that answer next year, but for right now, it's hard to argue that Ludwick isn't an upgrade over Gomes or Lewis...

A couple of things probably need to be pointed out. While Ludwick would be an upgrade it would not be a significant one.

Here is Jonny Gomes OPS vs Lefties over the last 3 seasons

2011 .972
2010 .857
2009 .914

By contrast Ludwick is a career .763 OPS against lefties. So if you get right down to it what the Reds need in LF right now with their current configuation is a guy that can platoon and hit righties. I thought Fred Lewis would be the guy. So far it has not happened, but there are a lot of other things they could look at to fill that role before they trade for 4 months of Ryan Ludwick.

The other thing is regardless of what you think of Heisey he has value. He can run, he can play defense and and most importantly he is cheap and under control for several more years. I would have no probably sending him in a package with some other guys for a signifcant piece like a front line starter or a Matt Kemp type bat, but moving him for 4 months of a marginal upgrade on a team that already leads all of baseball in runs seems like a misallocation of assets.

krm1580
06-09-2011, 03:49 PM
That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!

My previous post seems like a waste since I did not factor in Veteran creaminess. Some day I will learn. Move along, nothing to see here.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 04:08 PM
A couple of things probably need to be pointed out. While Ludwick would be an upgrade it would not be a significant one.

Here is Jonny Gomes OPS vs Lefties over the last 3 seasons

2011 .972
2010 .857
2009 .914

By contrast Ludwick is a career .763 OPS against lefties. So if you get right down to it what the Reds need in LF right now with their current configuation is a guy that can platoon and hit righties. I thought Fred Lewis would be the guy. So far it has not happened, but there are a lot of other things they could look at to fill that role before they trade for 4 months of Ryan Ludwick.

The other thing is regardless of what you think of Heisey he has value. He can run, he can play defense and and most importantly he is cheap and under control for several more years. I would have no probably sending him in a package with some other guys for a signifcant piece like a front line starter or a Matt Kemp type bat, but moving him for 4 months of a marginal upgrade on a team that already leads all of baseball in runs seems like a misallocation of assets.

But I don't think the Reds especially Dusty see the same value in Heisey that you point out here...

texasdave
06-09-2011, 04:31 PM
My previous post seems like a waste since I did not factor in Veteran creaminess. Some day I will learn. Move along, nothing to see here.

In addition to spell check I run all my posts through Veteran Creaminess check before hitting the enter button. :)

That being said it does seem like GMs like to deal for players they are familiar with. And it seems, to me anyway, that Dusty likes veterans. So a deal for Ryan Ludwick certainly would not surprise me.

Honestly, if the powers that be have decided Heisey is a 4th or 5th outfielder and no more, go get Ludwick. Make the trade and don't look back.

Pete4prez
06-09-2011, 04:35 PM
I would rather give Heisey the oppurtunity to be our everyday left fielder than trade him for Ludwick.

brm7675
06-09-2011, 04:50 PM
I would rather give Heisey the oppurtunity to be our everyday left fielder than trade him for Ludwick.

Well so would most common sensed people, but for whatever reason our Man Dusty has determined Heisey is just nothing but a role player at the end of the bench.

Vottomatic
06-09-2011, 06:02 PM
I'd rather give Heisey a chance. If that doesn't work out, bring up Dorn or Alonso or Francisco or a healthy Sappelt. Give some of these guys a chance. They have nothing left to prove in triple A. Find out what we got. We know we got in Gomes, Lewis, etc.

Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.

CRedsLarkin11
06-09-2011, 10:00 PM
What does Ludwick bring to the table? He's not a very good player at this point in his career and only had one really good year and a couple of decent ones. Other than 08 his numbers are not much different than what Gomes has done in the past. I would much rather have Heisey but that is just me.

brm7675
06-10-2011, 12:12 PM
What does Ludwick bring to the table? He's not a very good player at this point in his career and only had one really good year and a couple of decent ones. Other than 08 his numbers are not much different than what Gomes has done in the past. I would much rather have Heisey but that is just me.

I think most will agree...

Heisey has more upside then Ludwick but...

Ludwick has more upside then Gomes and....

Heisey plays very little compared to Gomes so..

Ludwich might see more playing time then Gomes so

that is why this trade is appealing.