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cinreds21
07-19-2011, 02:05 PM
I think I've mentioned this before, but if Ubaldo isn't available, what about the White Sox's John Danks? I would love to have him in the rotation. It's yet to be seen if Kenny Williams is looking to deal him yet, but if he is put on the trading block then I think I'd like him maybe more than Jimenez.

reds44
07-19-2011, 02:21 PM
I think I've mentioned this before, but if Ubaldo isn't available, what about the White Sox's John Danks? I would love to have him in the rotation. It's yet to be seen if Kenny Williams is looking to deal him yet, but if he is put on the trading block then I think I'd like him maybe more than Jimenez.
I don't see Williams selling anyone, but if he's trading a pitcher it'd be Edwin Jackson.

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 02:41 PM
I don't see Williams selling anyone, but if he's trading a pitcher it'd be Edwin Jackson.

I agree, but his name keeps coming up on MLBtraderumors so I have to at least entertain it in my head.

nate
07-19-2011, 03:01 PM
I'd much rather have Edwin Jackson than John Danks. Danks is kind of like getting another Travis Wood. Jackson would be the best pitcher on the staff.

Because Jackson is a FA at the end of the year, his price will largely be determined by if the Sox think they're in it or out of it. They started out pretty bad but find themselves in a similar situation to the Reds: 4-ish games out and underperforming their Pythag. If they decide to punt, I don't think it would take a ridiculous package to land Jackson. At least, it would take a less dear package to get him than Jiminez. Granted, UJ would be around after the season which makes him more valuable but to me, Jackson is a nice under the radar move.

klw
07-19-2011, 03:26 PM
today's rumor update
http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/sources_reds_interested_in_jimenez_middle_relief/5612356


The Cincinnati Reds are focused on trading for a high-end starter and/or middle reliever leading up to the non-waiver trade deadline, major league sources say.


Meanwhile, sources said, the Reds have had internal discussions about a number of middle and setup relievers. The list includes Jim Johnson and Koji Uehara of the Baltimore Orioles; Jason Isringhausen of the New York Mets; Jason Frasor of the Toronto Blue Jays; and Todd Coffey of the Washington Nationals.

Bold added to draw knee jerk crazed reactions.

corkedbat
07-19-2011, 03:36 PM
* I know I've said I wouldn't want a rental, but i could see dealing for Ryan Ludwyck as part of a deal including either Mike Adams or Heath Bell. Walt is familiar with Ludwyck and if he responds well after the deal, I think he could be extended for a reasonable price (no chance of this with a Reyes or Beltran). If he doesn't then you just let him walk. I don't think Ludwyck is a slam dunk by any means and i wouldn't break the bank to get him, but I would like to give him a shot in our lineup away from Petco and there could be value if inclued with a reliever.

* I love the idea of dealing for Ubaldo but his drop in velocity does worry me a bit.

* I would shop Ramon hard (especially to the BoSox and Giants). Love Ramon, but his value may be at a premium in the current climate, especially considering his last two seasons.

* I deal Coco if at all possible for any prospect(s) i had an interest in and I might kick in at least half of his remaining salary (or all if the return was sweet enogh).

* I've given up on a top notch OFer like Kemp, Either, Upton etc., but would still look at guys like Ludwyck, Luke Scott or one of Willingham/Dejesus/Crisp from Oaktown

* Mes, Frazier, Alonso, Sappelt and Boxberger would all get looks at some point in the 2nd Half (if not part of a deal).

* I'd deal/DFA Lewis and bring up Hermida.

* I'd move Volquez and Gomes (trade or DFA in Jonny's case)

* Prospects in a deal for Ramon or Coco could possibly be used in a Jimenez deal

* I'd also see if there is any significant interest in Arroyo - particularily the Yanks and Red Sox (an Arroyo/Hernandez bigger deal with Boston or multiple parties?).

* The Reds management would probably be afraid of the public seeing these moves as a white flag, but I'd sell it hard as improving for Now AND the Future.

mdccclxix
07-19-2011, 04:24 PM
* I know I've said I wouldn't want a rental, but i could see dealing for Ryan Ludwyck as part of a deal including either Mike Adams or Heath Bell. Walt is familiar with Ludwyck and if he responds well after the deal, I think he could be extended for a reasonable price (no chance of this with a Reyes or Beltran). If he doesn't then you just let him walk. I don't think Ludwyck is a slam dunk by any means and i wouldn't break the bank to get him, but I would like to give him a shot in our lineup away from Petco and there could be value if inclued with a reliever.

* I love the idea of dealing for Ubaldo but his drop in velocity does worry me a bit.

* I would shop Ramon hard (especially to the BoSox and Giants). Love Ramon, but his value may be at a premium in the current climate, especially considering his last two seasons.

* I deal Coco if at all possible for any prospect(s) i had an interest in and I might kick in at least half of his remaining salary (or all if the return was sweet enogh).

* I've given up on a top notch OFer like Kemp, Either, Upton etc., but would still look at guys like Ludwyck, Luke Scott or one of Willingham/Dejesus/Crisp from Oaktown

* Mes, Frazier, Alonso, Sappelt and Boxberger would all get looks at some point in the 2nd Half (if not part of a deal).

* I'd deal/DFA Lewis and bring up Hermida.

* I'd move Volquez and Gomes (trade or DFA in Jonny's case)

* Prospects in a deal for Ramon or Coco could possibly be used in a Jimenez deal

* I'd also see if there is any significant interest in Arroyo - particularily the Yanks and Red Sox (an Arroyo/Hernandez bigger deal with Boston or multiple parties?).

* The Reds management would probably be afraid of the public seeing these moves as a white flag, but I'd sell it hard as improving for Now AND the Future.

I think they'll have to consider this if they're 7+ games out in 2 weeks, which after the Braves, Mets, and Giants on the next homestand, is a very real possibility. The Cardinals finish the month with Pirates, Astros and Cubs.

Edit: The Brewers also finish with the Cubs and Astros. The Pirates get the Braves and Phillies. Getting the next 2 from Pittsburgh is a must, IMO, for the Reds. That could put them in a spot to take 3rd by the end of the month.

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 04:37 PM
I don't want Edwin because he's so inconsistent. It would just, to me, be a better Volquez.

Will M
07-19-2011, 06:12 PM
The Reds can improve the 2011 team as well as the 2012 squad.
The following players should be obtained:
1) a starter better than Cueto. absolutelty essential. Ubaldo fits the bill.
2) another late innings reliever. Koji Uehara.
3) with whats left the team can try to fix the problems at 3B & LF

How exactly do we swing these deals? If Ubaldo can be had for Alonso, Wood & Volquez then thats a deal I'd make. Who would be left that we could still deal? Ramon, Grandal, Francisco, Sappelt, Heisey. I suspect we could get a left fielder better than what we have now by taking on some salary. Maybe we would get a rental & keep Sappelt for 2012.

Your new look Reds:
C Mes/Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Phillips (2012 option picked up)
SS Cozart
3B Rolen, Frazier, maybe an addition
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
LF an addition better than the Lewis/Gomes/Heisey situation
SP Ubaldo, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Arroyo
RP Uehara, Coco (gone after 2011), Chapman, Masset, Bray

The above or something like it is 100% possible IF the payroll is increased. The same was true in 2010 & last offseason (Haren, Oswalt, Greinke, Marcum,etc).

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 06:18 PM
Uehara could become a free agent after this year. There is a vesting option that comes into play from his 2011 performance.

Will M
07-19-2011, 06:20 PM
Uehara could become a free agent after this year. There is a vesting option that comes into play from his 2011 performance.

according to Cots it vests with 55 games which seems easily obtained.

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 06:36 PM
I didn't know the parameters of it.

nate
07-19-2011, 07:41 PM
I don't want Edwin because he's so inconsistent. It would just, to me, be a better Volquez.

How is he inconsistent?

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 08:19 PM
One start he gives you no-hitter stuff and then the next he gives up six runs. It hasn't been as bad his year, his only "bad" ERA was in April (5.86) but he had a 3.31 in May, 2.81 in June and 3.27 in July.

mdccclxix
07-20-2011, 06:50 PM
1) DL Rolen asap - we need him healthy down the stretch
2) Trade for Beltran now - before this coming homestand - today 7/20/11
3) Send Gomes to ATL for a reliever
4) Call up Frazier to spell Rolen and pinch hit
5) Add Shields or Ubaldo within the week so we get at least one start on the homestand

Ubaldo/Shields
Cueto
Bailey
Arroyo
Willis

Leake, Wood and Volquez are likely gone, although if keeping Leake means trading Mez, I'm good with that.

RedRoser
07-20-2011, 07:09 PM
Was Leake traded in one of your scenarios? Otherwise, he has to be in the rotation somewhere! :confused:

If it's me, I'm keeping Mike Leake. Period.

mdccclxix
07-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Was Leake traded in one of your scenarios? Otherwise, he has to be in the rotation somewhere! :confused:

If it's me, I'm keeping Mike Leake. Period.

Yeah, maybe for Ubaldo or Shields. I just figure Leake, Wood and Volquez are most likely to get moved in a deal for a pitcher so I've left them out of the rotation.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Yeah, maybe for Ubaldo or Shields. I just figure Leake, Wood and Volquez are most likely to get moved in a deal for a pitcher so I've left them out of the rotation.

Would the Rays really need/want Mike Leake with all the top-flight pitching prospects they have in the pipeline?

corkedbat
07-21-2011, 02:10 AM
I really enjoyed last season and would be ahppy with it again. I was willing to accept it because I had little hope that the Reds could hope to go little farther when you prety much have to believe they would face the Giants and then the Pils staffs (or vice versa). Of course there are miracles but the odds don't favor it.

If however, Walt could somehow add Ubaldo AND Shields and still retain young'uns like Cueto, Mes, Chapman, at least one of Heisey/Sappelt and at least two of Leake/Bailey/Wood and also address a leftfielder with a strong enough bat to hit between Joey and Bruce before ST, I'd punt this season and strip the fat to go all-in for the next two seasons.

Not saying that a rotation of Jiminez, Cueto, Shields and two of Bailey, Leake, Wood and Chapman would equal either the Philly or Giants staffs, but they' be getting almost as warm as I can see the Reds getting.

reds44
07-21-2011, 02:21 AM
There's no way they can get Ubaldo and Sheilds. That just won't happen. Really, the dream scenario is they can flip prospects to Tampa without giving up pitching for Shields, then deal a pitcher (most likely it would have to be Wood) to New York for Beltran.

Stubbs
Phillips
Votto
Beltran
Bruce
Rolen
Cozart
Catcher

Cueto
Shields
Leake
Bailey
Arroyo

then move Willis to the pen and send Horst down.

Will M
07-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Last year the Reds big acquisition for the stretch run was Jim Edmonds. This year there is a lot of smoke but the fire may not appear. I was thinking: what if no big deals are made (for whatever reason)?

1) the team would have to figure out what to do with Alonso this winter. he would seem to be less attractive in the offseason. a team may say 'why pay for Alonso when I can try some cheap free agent?'.
2) the 2012 rotation would be Cueto, Bailey (always an injury risk), Leake, Arroyo & Wood/Volquez/Chapman
3) left field could be Sappelt or the Reds could get someone in the offseason

it seems to me that the time to make a deal or two is now. for one the 2011 season isn't over. second, IMO I believe guys like Shields or Ubaldo would be even more difficult to get in the offseason and anytime a TOR starter could be had a good team needs to be in the mix. going into 2012 with the same rotation issues (quantity over quality) is going to have the same problems it has had this year and last.

if I were Walt I'd empty the farm (everyone except for Mes is available in the right deal) for...
A) two, yes two, TOR starters. who? Ubaldo, Shields, Wandy, etc.
I'd plan for a 2011 rotation of TOR, TOR, Cueto, Bailey, Leake. Arroyo gets some 'rest' for a couple of weeks. I suspect he will have to take over for Leake once he reaches a certain number of innings
B) A MOR left fielder. either a rental (Beltran) or a keeper (Pence)

so what if AAA is decimated? if the team is going to keep Votto for 2012 & 2013 then they'd be smart to build a winning team around him. guys like Alonso, Sappelt, Frazier, Grandal, etc are not going to push us over the top in the next couple of years. however, players they could be traded for might.

757690
07-23-2011, 12:54 AM
If the Reds want to make the postseason, they are going to need at least one shutdown reliever in the pen. This bullpen is good, but I never feel comfortable with a lead late in the game.

CrackerJack
07-23-2011, 01:29 AM
If the Reds want to make the postseason, they are going to need at least one shutdown reliever in the pen. This bullpen is good, but I never feel comfortable with a lead late in the game.


They have a young BP outside of Coco and are really riding that rollercoaster. They desperately need an 2010 Rhodes type, at least, and simply do not have it.

corkedbat
07-23-2011, 04:30 AM
If the Reds want to make the postseason, they are going to need at least one shutdown reliever in the pen. This bullpen is good, but I never feel comfortable with a lead late in the game.

I don't believe relief help is at the top of our list this year, but I would like to land a solid RH veteran reliever and a lefty capable of handling the 8th spot from the left side of the pen, either now or over the offseason. The righty would be to add to the mix with Masset, Arredondo, Ondruszek and Boxberger to help with the transition after Cordero moves on. The lefty would be to make it easier to move Aroldis to the rotation. Bray and/or Horst may be fine for the short/medium roles, but I'd like to add an arm a notch or two better for the late-inning lefty role.

I'd even thought about Hernandez for Affeldt, but saw where his contract is up after this year and he'll probably want an upward bump from the $4.5M he is making this year. Not sure what it would cost or what his contract status is, but it would be nice to keep Heath Bell from the Cards evil clutches.