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mrherd05
06-20-2011, 09:19 PM
I dont know that I have ever hated a Redleg more than Paul Janish and Ryan Hanigan. I long for the day these two numbnuts are effing things up for other teams.

RedsFan_26
06-20-2011, 09:28 PM
Janish is ridiculous, i don't mind hanigan that much as a backup. I don't understand why they aren't bringing Cozart up, janish brings nothing to the table. At least give him a chance now so if it fails you have time to go pick a SS up. Is Janish out of options or something? I understand that we would have to pay Renteria to release him, but why not send Janish down and bring up Cozart?

mrherd05
06-20-2011, 09:31 PM
Did you just hear that our shortstops, in addition to hitting like sweaty balls, have committed 15 errors so far this year.

RedsFan_26
06-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Yeah, i expected the .220 but not all the errors by Janish

Maker_84
06-20-2011, 11:14 PM
Yeah, i expected the .220 but not all the errors by Janish

which means it's time for him to be off this team. Only reason he started was because of his defense and he doesn't even have that anymore.

RedsFan_26
06-21-2011, 03:27 PM
which means it's time for him to be off this team. Only reason he started was because of his defense and he doesn't even have that anymore.

I agree. His time is up, he got his shot and he ruined it.

And call me crazy, but i think Dusty should give Freddy Lewis a little more playing time, and perhaps a chance to lead off, in his last 10 games he is 8 for 13 with 3 doubles, and now has a .367 OBP compared to Stubbs .334. I say shake things up, give him a shot. I'm a huge proponent of Stubbs, but put him in the 7 hole, he thrived there last year. Change things up!

Vottomatic
06-21-2011, 03:34 PM
I agree. His time is up, he got his shot and he ruined it.

And call me crazy, but i think Dusty should give Freddy Lewis a little more playing time, and perhaps a chance to lead off, in his last 10 games he is 8 for 13 with 3 doubles, and now has a .367 OBP compared to Stubbs .334. I say shake things up, give him a shot. I'm a huge proponent of Stubbs, but put him in the 7 hole, he thrived there last year. Change things up!

Because Lewis is hot, I agree with you. I'd bat him leadoff, BP second and move Stubbs behind Bruce in the batting order and Rolen down to 7th.

izzy's dad
06-21-2011, 03:50 PM
Did you just hear that our shortstops, in addition to hitting like sweaty balls, have committed 15 errors so far this year.

This is funny.

izzy's dad
06-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Something needs to happen, this team as constructed is not getting it done. I am not in favor of a major roster shakeup, or unloading the farm for a rental, but trim the fat for God sakes.

bshall2105
06-21-2011, 03:58 PM
Don't hate Janish for going out everyday and playing to the best of his ability. Blame Dusty/ the front office for sticking with him even though it is clear he is not an acceptable ML SS.

Stray
06-21-2011, 04:03 PM
I don't mind Hanigan. He doesn't hit for great average, but you can count on him to give you a professional at bat more often than not, and that's more than you can say about some of our guys. He is also money in a hit and run situation.

Janish on the other hand... Like others have said, he's here for his glove. If that is the only reason he's on this team it better be golden, and it is not.

ruREaDy2
06-21-2011, 04:35 PM
Add me to the list of those wanting to see Dusty give Fred Lewis more playing time. Perhaps his recent play is fools gold, but we will never know unless he gets to play more frequently.

CWRed
06-21-2011, 04:43 PM
What's the problem with Hanigan? Does he not have an OBP over .350 and walks more than he strikes out? And normally calls a great game. His SLG % is atrocious but let's stop piling on the guys who don't deserve it.

That being said, the first inning last night was horribly pitched and horrible called. Fastball x 15 with Yankee batters in the hole several times. Dumb.

Janish does have 7 errors but he also makes more plays than most SS's out there. But it's time to DFA Renteria and give Cozart a shot. And have Dusty have some rhyme or reason as to who plays left and when.

Lockdwn11
06-21-2011, 04:55 PM
The funny thing is a few other posters and I tried to tell the masses that this would happen if Janish was an everyday starter. It's time to move on

brm7675
06-21-2011, 05:04 PM
The funny thing is a few other posters and I tried to tell the masses that this would happen if Janish was an everyday starter. It's time to move on

I advocated for Janish to be the everyday SS and still do. I am willing to accept his horrible bat, but he has to improve his fielding numbers. I would like to see Cozart brought up and get some playing time, but I don't think overall he would out play Janish this year.

Lockdwn11
06-21-2011, 05:11 PM
I advocated for Janish to be the everyday SS and still do. I am willing to accept his horrible bat, but he has to improve his fielding numbers. I would like to see Cozart brought up and get some playing time, but I don't think overall he would out play Janish this year.

Yes, I remember you was one of them but what make you think or what reasons do you have to make you believe Cozart couldn't do better then Janish has done?

brm7675
06-21-2011, 05:13 PM
Yes, I remember you was one of them but what make you think or what reasons do you have to make you believe Cozart couldn't do better then Janish has done?

This year I don't see it, I think you would see him do okay but you have to figure there would be an adjustment for him. Long term he may be better but right now for the rest of 2011 I see him as better then Edgar and about even with Janish.

ruREaDy2
06-21-2011, 05:16 PM
The fact still remains that this Reds offense is, and has been, one of the top run-producing offenses in all of MLB this season.

Is Janish's anemic hitting frustrating and troubling? Heck yes it is, but what I think this club truly needs more than anything is a bonified top of the rotation starter....a guy that's almost guaranteed to trot out there and give you 7 or 8 solid innings every outing.

I'm not sure Jocketty would even pull the trigger on a guy like that, but that's what I feel this team needs more than anything. The scoring will be there just like it has been all season (for the most part).

Lockdwn11
06-21-2011, 05:23 PM
This year I don't see it, I think you would see him do okay but you have to figure there would be an adjustment for him. Long term he may be better but right now for the rest of 2011 I see him as better then Edgar and about even with Janish.

Well if you see him as the better option in the long term and Janish equal now why wouldn't you want him starting this year? That would free up Janish to come off the bench and back up 3rd/2nd and ss plus it would push Edgar off the roster. Btw,I see Cozart as the better player this year because he has a better overall skill set to play MLB.

brm7675
06-21-2011, 05:26 PM
The fact still remains that this Reds offense is, and has been, one of the top run-producing offenses in all of MLB this season.

Is Janish's anemic hitting frustrating and troubling? Heck yes it is, but what I think this club truly needs more than anything is a bonified top of the rotation starter....a guy that's almost guaranteed to trot out there and give you 7 or 8 solid innings every outing.

I'm not sure Jocketty would even pull the trigger on a guy like that, but that's what I feel this team needs more than anything. The scoring will be there just like it has been all season (for the most part).

We REALLY need to stop beating that drum. If you look at this offense you will see a team that will post HUGE numbers for a game or two, then go 4-5-6 games scoring 3 runs or less against pretty average pitching. Meanwhile overall out pitching has been pretty stable and would even be better had injuires not been at issue. All you need to do is look at this past weekend and even last night as examples where our Offense, not our Pitching led to 3 losses out of 4 games and the one game we did win was only because our Pitching totally shut the Blue Jays down to just 1 run. No, our pitching is fine, we need to become more consistant in our per game run production.

Lockdwn11
06-21-2011, 05:27 PM
The fact still remains that this Reds offense is, and has been, one of the top run-producing offenses in all of MLB this season.

Is Janish's anemic hitting frustrating and troubling? Heck yes it is, but what I think this club truly needs more than anything is a bonified top of the rotation starter....a guy that's almost guaranteed to trot out there and give you 7 or 8 solid innings every outing.

I'm not sure Jocketty would even pull the trigger on a guy like that, but that's what I feel this team needs more than anything. The scoring will be there just like it has been all season (for the most part).

The Reds pitching staff ranks 3rd in MLB in quality starts. Just saying.

brm7675
06-21-2011, 05:27 PM
Well if you see him as the better option in the long term and Janish equal now why wouldn't you want him starting this year? That would free up Janish to come off the bench and back up 3rd/2nd and ss plus it would push Edgar off the roster. Btw,I see Cozart as the better player this year because he has a better overall skill set to play MLB.

I would call Cozart up without question. I would split him and Janish maybe 55/45 with Janish getting a few more starts and by all means Edgar goes away.

RedsFan_26
06-21-2011, 06:33 PM
I'd go Renteria and Cozart. Get rid of Janish, considering Renteria and Janish are playing about the same, i would go with the veteran who has been there and knows how to win over Janish. Janish brings nothing to the table.

brm7675
06-21-2011, 06:39 PM
I'd go Renteria and Cozart. Get rid of Janish, considering Renteria and Janish are playing about the same, i would go with the veteran who has been there and knows how to win over Janish. Janish brings nothing to the table.

How are they playing about the same? What does Edgar bring to the table? He refuses to play any position besides SS and he CAN'T play that position, his bat is no better then Janish, he is older and slower in the field. Exactly how is he better outside of having that veteran "creaminess" which we already have with Rolen, Cairo, Hernandez and some others.

RedsFan_26
06-21-2011, 06:50 PM
How are they playing about the same? What does Edgar bring to the table? He refuses to play any position besides SS and he CAN'T play that position, his bat is no better then Janish, he is older and slower in the field. Exactly how is he better outside of having that veteran "creaminess" which we already have with Rolen, Cairo, Hernandez and some others.


Renteria .219/.300/.246

Janish .229/.258/.274


Janish has 7 errors, and Renteria has 8

I'm not saying Renteria is better, i'm saying based on their similar stats, having been to the postseason multiple times, and knowing how to win at the shortstop position is more valuable than Janish's assets.

brm7675
06-21-2011, 06:56 PM
Renteria .219/.300/.246

Janish .229/.258/.274


Janish has 7 errors, and Renteria has 8

I'm not saying Renteria is better, i'm saying based on their similar stats, having been to the postseason multiple times, and knowing how to win at the shortstop position is more valuable than Janish's assets.

How? What does that have to do with anything? This whole idea that players don't know how to play come playoff time and need vets around them is BS. You want players who can play and produce, and that is something Edgar can't do. There is zero reason to keep Edgar on this team, he is selfish, slow and not a "value" to this team at all.

RedsFan_26
06-21-2011, 06:58 PM
How? What does that have to do with anything? This whole idea that players don't know how to play come playoff time and need vets around them is BS. You want players who can play and produce, and that is something Edgar can't do. There is zero reason to keep Edgar on this team, he is selfish, slow and not a "value" to this team at all.

Very true. I'm not one to argue.

Roush's socks
06-22-2011, 12:52 PM
Why is Hanigan in this discussion? Do Reds fans really think that as a backup catcher he is so awful? Most teams would give their left nut for a backup catcher who plays like him.

As far as SS goes, if the rest of the team is hitting, they can live with Janish's .220 average. But when runs aren't being scored, all eyes turn to weak hitting SS. As we all know, SS's who hit and defend well don't grow on trees. Would Cozart be any better? If we were playing fantasy baseball we could just plug him in there and see what happens, but things are a little more complicated in real life.

BigPoppa
06-24-2011, 09:29 AM
speaking of Janish, what has happened to his glove this year? Dude was automatic last year and been struggling defensively this year. What gives?

We expected the hitting to be around the Mendoza line, but what's up with the defense?

bounty37h
06-24-2011, 09:52 AM
How are they playing about the same? What does Edgar bring to the table? He refuses to play any position besides SS and he CAN'T play that position, his bat is no better then Janish, he is older and slower in the field. Exactly how is he better outside of having that veteran "creaminess" which we already have with Rolen, Cairo, Hernandez and some others.

To be fair, they are both stinking the joint up, playing about the same in number of errors and lack of hitting. So according to your arguement Janish is more valuable cause he can suck at multiple positions (and not saying he sucks overall, but he has been playing like the suck). Neither one is playing like a legit MLB shortstop this year, and then they have to bat too.

bounty37h
06-24-2011, 09:57 AM
How? What does that have to do with anything? This whole idea that players don't know how to play come playoff time and need vets around them is BS. You want players who can play and produce, and that is something Edgar can't do. There is zero reason to keep Edgar on this team, he is selfish, slow and not a "value" to this team at all.

Your arguiing against yourself while trying to argue someone else. For one, if you dont believe it, well, you must not have ever played on a team-it isnt required, but certainly helps-ask anyone on any higher level team and they will tell you the same. I agree Edgar is stinking it up, but he certainly isnt playing worse then Janish; its like picking best looking between Rosie ODonell and Roseanne, still ugly in the end either way.

CWRed
06-24-2011, 10:10 AM
Your arguiing against yourself while trying to argue someone else. For one, if you dont believe it, well, you must not have ever played on a team-it isnt required, but certainly helps-ask anyone on any higher level team and they will tell you the same. I agree Edgar is stinking it up, but he certainly isnt playing worse then Janish; its like picking best looking between Rosie ODonell and Roseanne, still ugly in the end either way.

First, I had to ask a 4th grader to decpiher your post (grammar police say it's "you're" among other things) Second, Renteria is playing MUCH worse than Janish. Did you just say that? Third, I enjoyed the Rosie/ Roseanne joke.

wlf WV
06-24-2011, 10:39 AM
The Reds pitching staff ranks 3rd in MLB in quality starts. Just saying.
They are also 13th,14th,15th respectively in ERA,Runs,HR and BB.I don't think we can afford,or that a TOR pitcher is available.IF Cueto could rub off on Volquez,and Bailey will stay healthy,I believe we will be OK.Better than OK.

bleedsred
06-24-2011, 11:09 AM
I was just thinking, when Leake and Arroyo pitch in an American League park maybe the Reds could DH for shortsop...LOL/ jk sort of. Really though, I believe Bronson and Leake handle the lumber better (with limited AB) than Janish or Edgar at this point.....

bubbachunk
06-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Hanny has been solid, nobody ever claimed he was going to put up big power numbers. I still want him catching behind Mes or Grandal for years to come until one of the guys in the lower minors is ready.

swaisuc
06-24-2011, 11:55 AM
Renteria .219/.300/.246

Janish .229/.258/.274


Janish has 7 errors, and Renteria has 8

I'm not saying Renteria is better, i'm saying based on their similar stats, having been to the postseason multiple times, and knowing how to win at the shortstop position is more valuable than Janish's assets.

Your overall point may be valid, but the amount of errors someone has been credited with is a pretty terrible way to determine defensive value. If you watch them play, one has been above average defensively and one can't get to anything.

Sure, those stats you posted are similar, but I don't think you can make a case that those 2 players have been similarly productive for this team so far. If your belief is that Renteria's experience overcomes that, thats fine. I'm just not buying the "they've been similar so far" argument at all.

bounty37h
06-24-2011, 12:27 PM
First, I had to ask a 4th grader to decpiher your post (grammar police say it's "you're" among other things) Second, Renteria is playing MUCH worse than Janish. Did you just say that? Third, I enjoyed the Rosie/ Roseanne joke.

First, he didn't spell check you then (decpiher?). Second, how is he playing much worse; equal errors in the field and similar numbers at the plate-they both stink, but if you want to argue who stinks more, have at it. Can you at least back up what your saying with anything, or just say it and hope people take it as fact cause you typed it out? Third, glad you got a laugh, have a great weekend.

swaisuc
06-24-2011, 01:43 PM
First, he didn't spell check you then (decpiher?). Second, how is he playing much worse; equal errors in the field and similar numbers at the plate-they both stink, but if you want to argue who stinks more, have at it. Can you at least back up what your saying with anything, or just say it and hope people take it as fact cause you typed it out? Third, glad you got a laugh, have a great weekend.

I wish you had responded to my post instead of getting into the back and forth insulting. I'll answer for him though since it's pretty obvious...

One is playing horrible defense and the other isn't. I really couldn't care less what the error totals say. You can pick whatever your favorite defensive metric is to see this, but I suspect that you watch enough games that you don't need to. Its plain as day. Do you disagree with this or do you not think it matters?

Said another way...
Heisey has an OBP of .333 and has one error.
Gomes has an OBP of .338 and has one error. Have these 2 players been equal so far?

bounty37h
06-24-2011, 03:03 PM
I wish you had responded to my post instead of getting into the back and forth insulting. I'll answer for him though since it's pretty obvious...

One is playing horrible defense and the other isn't. I really couldn't care less what the error totals say. You can pick whatever your favorite defensive metric is to see this, but I suspect that you watch enough games that you don't need to. Its plain as day. Do you disagree with this or do you not think it matters?

Said another way...
Heisey has an OBP of .333 and has one error.
Gomes has an OBP of .338 and has one error. Have these 2 players been equal so far?

Wasnt insulting, I simply responded to his post insulting me. You dont care about the errors, and thats fine, but it doesnt make it any more true. Janish has not played good defense-which is what he is known for. I do realize he has more range (which can allow for the error totals, can get to more balls but cant finish the play, and thats not a bad error IMO)and potential still, but he is not playing well this year, esp when supposed to be a defensive guru with no bat. So far this year he is simply a guy with a decent but not great glove and no bat.

mlh1981
06-24-2011, 03:42 PM
Hanigan? Just don't see the beef with him. He's a backup catcher. He's not hitting QUITE as good as I thought, but you get a guy who would probably start for a lot of teams as a backup.

wlf WV
06-24-2011, 03:47 PM
Janish has far greater range and a superior arm, they're no comparison defensively,and it shouldn't be debatable.

bounty37h
06-24-2011, 03:53 PM
Janish has far greater range and a superior arm, they're no comparison defensively,and it shouldn't be debatable.

I agree, not debating that at all. I still don't think he is having a good season though, esp in the field where he is supposed to be lights out. Doesnt make him a bad guy nor am I saying he sucks and need to get rid of him, but we need better production from SS in the field and the plate, esp if he wants to keep that job.