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View Full Version : Is anyone untouchable?



brm7675
06-24-2011, 05:00 PM
Is there anyone on the Reds present 40 man roster that you would not trade no matter what the offer was?

bshall2105
06-24-2011, 05:01 PM
Carlos Fisher

mroby85
06-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Joey Votto, that's it for me.

R_Webb18
06-24-2011, 05:19 PM
ppl id like to keep for sure phillips votto bruce cueto. now i guess you can't ever say never tho.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 05:52 PM
Joey Votto, that's it for me.

So a player you are pretty sure to lose in about 2.5 years is non tradeable?

Who Dey Time
06-24-2011, 06:37 PM
So a player you are pretty sure to lose in about 2.5 years is non tradeable?

We are no where near having to worry about that at present. No sense in entertaining a Votto trade.

For me, at bare minimum, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Leake, and Stubbs are untouchable.

mroby85
06-24-2011, 06:39 PM
So a player you are pretty sure to lose in about 2.5 years is non tradeable?

Joey Votto is the best player i've ever seen this team have. Yes, to me he would be untouchable. In my opinion they have to keep him, and if they dont thats their stupidity. Do you think the way to build a winning team is to trade the MVP when you finally get one?

brm7675
06-24-2011, 06:52 PM
Joey Votto is the best player i've ever seen this team have. Yes, to me he would be untouchable. In my opinion they have to keep him, and if they dont thats their stupidity. Do you think the way to build a winning team is to trade the MVP when you finally get one?

If we could ink him to a long term deal I would put him as untouchable, but we can't and he will be gone after the end of the present deal. So with that in mind I would enterain offers. If say the Dodgers offered me Kershaw and another player I would give it very strong consideration. If I can't keep Votto long term, then I want to get something I can keep.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 06:53 PM
We are no where near having to worry about that at present. No sense in entertaining a Votto trade.

For me, at bare minimum, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Leake, and Stubbs are untouchable.

Okay when do you start to worry?

R_Webb18
06-24-2011, 06:54 PM
Okay when do you start to worry?

final year

brm7675
06-24-2011, 06:56 PM
final year

to late, look at the mess the same issue is causing in St. Louis, you wait till then you get little in return and have nothing but issues all season long.

R_Webb18
06-24-2011, 06:58 PM
to late, look at the mess the same issue is causing in St. Louis, you wait till then you get little in return and have nothing but issues all season long.

well in his 2nd to final year you can look but if ur in the race do u pull the trigger?

ntorvik
06-24-2011, 07:00 PM
you don't think the Reds would throw the house at Votto? He's the best player this ball club has seen in over a decade and you think he's tradable? We aren't the Padres who sucked so bad there was no point in trying to keep Gonzo, we aren't so terrible that we have to trade all of our good players away like the Pirates have in the past, we won the division last year and will contend for it again this year. He's 28, so in 2 years he's 30 and if he's still raking at a ridiculous rate like he could/should be, you resign him.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:01 PM
well in his 2nd to final year you can look but if ur in the race do u pull the trigger?

I pull the trigger right now with the right offer. Unless he wins more MVP awards his value will never be higher. Unless he really gets it going in the second half of this year I don't see him repeating as the MVP, do you? Again I like Votto and what he brings to the table, but outside of Bruce and Cueto I am open to trading just about anyone else for the right offer.

*I don't deal Bruce or Cueto because both are signed to long term deals and at great value for a franchise that does have to watch the bottom line.

R_Webb18
06-24-2011, 07:02 PM
I pull the trigger right now with the right offer. Unless he wins more MVP awards his value will never be higher. Unless he really gets it going in the second half of this year I don't see him repeating as the MVP, do you? Again I like Votto and what he brings to the table, but outside of Bruce and Cueto I am open to trading just about anyone else for the right offer.

*I don't deal Bruce or Cueto because both are signed to long term deals and at great value for a franchise that does have to watch the bottom line.

i would never do this but id love to here what youd like for him now?

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:03 PM
you don't think the Reds would throw the house at Votto? He's the best player this ball club has seen in over a decade and you think he's tradable? We aren't the Padres who sucked so bad there was no point in trying to keep Gonzo, we aren't so terrible that we have to trade all of our good players away like the Pirates have in the past, we won the division last year and will contend for it again this year. He's 28, so in 2 years he's 30 and if he's still raking at a ridiculous rate like he could/should be, you resign him.

Sure they will but the LAA, NYY, Boston, Chicago, Texas and other teams have bigger houses to throw at Votto. Right now, I see the chances of resigning Votto as less then 20%. You have Yonder sitting in AAA wasting away. If you can move Votto and get a great return and bring Yonder up and put at first you do it. We have Votto on the team right now....how are we doing this season with Votto but huge holes at SS/LF and 3rd base?

Natty Redlocks
06-24-2011, 07:05 PM
Bruce would be the last one I'd trade. Plenty of guys are "untouchable" in that the return would have to be so huge nobody would pay it; I'd be surprised to see any Big Bold moves anytime soon.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:06 PM
i would never do this but id love to here what youd like for him now?

I would deal Votto to the Jays for Bautista straight up. Put Bautista in LF, bring up Yonder at first and you already have improved the overall team.

I would deal Votto to the Dodgers for say Kershaw and another player and right there you have your Ace to go along with Cueto for an incredible L/R 1-2 punch in your rotation. Again bring up Yonder to play first.

I would offer Votto and say Stubbs to TB for Upton and Evan. We put Evan at 3rd and Upton in CF and Yonder at first...

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:07 PM
Bruce would be the last one I'd trade. Plenty of guys are "untouchable" in that the return would have to be so huge nobody would pay it; I'd be surprised to see any Big Bold moves anytime soon.

I agree 100%, Walt has shown he doesn't have the balls to make a big move....

ntorvik
06-24-2011, 07:07 PM
I would see what I could get for Hernandez, EV, Rolen and Cordero to see if we can fill some of those needs at short or LF. I think Heisey could be the answer in LF, we just need to give him every day PT. That leaves short for this season, and Yonder could play third next season.

ntorvik
06-24-2011, 07:08 PM
I would deal Votto to the Jays for Bautista straight up. Put Bautista in LF, bring up Yonder at first and you already have improved the overall team.

I would deal Votto to the Dodgers for say Kershaw and another player and right there you have your Ace to go along with Cueto for an incredible L/R 1-2 punch in your rotation. Again bring up Yonder to play first.

I would offer Votto and say Stubbs to TB for Upton and Evan. We put Evan at 3rd and Upton in CF and Yonder at first...

Not saying Upton will continue to do this, but he is playing some terrible baseball and the Rays are going to have to dump him regardless, probably not hoping for much in return. That's like adding another auto-out into our lineup, which we have enough of.

Natty Redlocks
06-24-2011, 07:11 PM
I agree 100%, Walt has shown he doesn't have the balls to make a big move....

I don't know if it's about balls. Votto is a very popular player and a big part of the team's campaign to win back fans. Message board geniuses might get why they'd trade him, but more casual fans may not get it.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:17 PM
I don't know if it's about balls. Votto is a very popular player and a big part of the team's campaign to win back fans. Message board geniuses might get why they'd trade him, but more casual fans may not get it.

I am not advocating making a huge deal involving Votto. But Walt needs to look at our talent in our system and begin to decide if these are players he sees playing on the major league level soon, because if not he needs to deal them for players who will. We have 3 positions right now on teh major league level that are not producing, and for the most have not the entire season. So why not either give others in our system a shot, or deal them for players who can play on the major league level now. I am just kinda unclear WHY he is waiting.....

Natty Redlocks
06-24-2011, 07:26 PM
I am not advocating making a huge deal involving Votto. But Walt needs to look at our talent in our system and begin to decide if these are players he sees playing on the major league level soon, because if not he needs to deal them for players who will. We have 3 positions right now on teh major league level that are not producing, and for the most have not the entire season. So why not either give others in our system a shot, or deal them for players who can play on the major league level now. I am just kinda unclear WHY he is waiting.....

Because he's patient, and it's not a video game. These players are real people, and he has a manager whose success depends largely on his convincing guys that he believes in them. You can agree or disagree with a lot of his particular choices (I know I do), but the bottom line right now is that the team is contending, and that is way more fun than being in fourth or fifth place all season long. It can be frustrating, but as fans no one gives a crap what we think.

brm7675
06-24-2011, 07:31 PM
Because he's patient, and it's not a video game. These players are real people, and he has a manager whose success depends largely on his convincing guys that he believes in them. You can agree or disagree with a lot of his particular choices (I know I do), but the bottom line right now is that the team is contending, and that is way more fun than being in fourth or fifth place all season long. It can be frustrating, but as fans no one gives a crap what we think.

Well no they actually do care because if the team continues to hover around the .500 mark then watch as attendance continues to falter. Reds fans are going to stop going if they don't see improvement and right now, there is zero reason to think this team will improve unless certain issues are addressed.

Natty Redlocks
06-24-2011, 07:44 PM
Well no they actually do care because if the team continues to hover around the .500 mark then watch as attendance continues to falter. Reds fans are going to stop going if they don't see improvement and right now, there is zero reason to think this team will improve unless certain issues are addressed.

I'm not sure you're qualified to speak for all Reds fans. You've made it very clear that YOU expect certain issues addressed; that doesn't mean everybody else is in petulant crybaby mode as well. Would I like to see a big, exciting move? Or even a boring, anticlimactic Cozart promotion? Sure. But I'm not a part of the Reds' front office, and I don't have access to all the information they have. I believe that Castellini was serious when he said he wants to bring championship baseball back to Cincinnati, and things are way better now than they were when he bought the team. Do you think he wants the team to fail, or do you think he's trying his best and just sucks as an owner?

markymark69
06-24-2011, 10:41 PM
According to the reactions of the majority of this board and mostly the brm's and vottomatic's of the world - everyone on the roster and in the minor leagues is untouchable - because when a trade idea is mentioned - it is always shot down - because the other players are not as good as ours - can't play anymore, cost too much, we can't trade young talent for the guy we want because he is too old or one of Dusty's buddies, did I get them all?

I continue to be amazed by this board.

AintlifeGrande
06-24-2011, 11:22 PM
So a player you are pretty sure to lose in about 2.5 years is non tradeable?

The truth.

AintlifeGrande
06-24-2011, 11:32 PM
I don't know if it's about balls. Votto is a very popular player and a big part of the team's campaign to win back fans. Message board geniuses might get why they'd trade him, but more casual fans may not get it.

You mean RedsZone GM's.:D

webbbj
06-24-2011, 11:45 PM
gomes, renteria and lewis seem to be untouchable

Krawhitham
06-25-2011, 04:00 AM
So a player you are pretty sure to lose in about 2.5 years is non tradeable?

If he goes anywhere it will be the Blue Jays, he does not want to play in a big market city. He does not want to deal with the media. He might want to go "home" but that is it.

Reds
06-25-2011, 05:21 AM
Votto. He'll be worth more in 2 years isn't a bad gamble, keep him.

I would also not entertain offers on Bruce or Chapman. Bruce is too young to move and trading Chapman would be a weak move after you went out of your way to acquire him.

wlf WV
06-25-2011, 05:45 AM
I would trade Chapman,Wood,Grandal,Horst,and others for Kershaw,if I could sign him long term.Try a package deal with others to include Furcal.Almost whatever it took to do this deal,if I could sign Furcal for 2 or 3 yrs.Add Alonso and others and try to include Kemp.Time to unload the farm for this deal. I haven't been able to sleep tonight,so I might be delusional.

Vottomatic
06-25-2011, 09:51 AM
Toronto is willing to trade their entire team for Votto. ;)

Maker_84
06-25-2011, 04:20 PM
Cueto is the only untouchable on this team. Votto while a good player still hasn't shown me he has what it takes in the big clutch moments.

bshall2105
06-25-2011, 04:35 PM
Cueto is the only untouchable on this team. Votto while a good player still hasn't shown me he has what it takes in the big clutch moments.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYO-Oq50qk

R_Webb18
06-25-2011, 04:45 PM
Cueto is the only untouchable on this team. Votto while a good player still hasn't shown me he has what it takes in the big clutch moments.

i guess you got watch more. also cueto has?

Krawhitham
06-25-2011, 04:50 PM
Cueto is the only untouchable on this team. Votto while a good player still hasn't shown me he has what it takes in the big clutch moments.

What is you definition of clutch?

With no one on he is batting .272
With runners on he is batting .373
Runners in Scoring position .424
Scoring Position with 2 outs .458

So once again what is you definition of clutch?

webbbj
06-25-2011, 06:45 PM
Cueto is the only untouchable on this team. Votto while a good player still hasn't shown me he has what it takes in the big clutch moments.

what are you talking about

Krawhitham
06-25-2011, 07:50 PM
was that clutch?

mroby85
06-25-2011, 08:32 PM
was that clutch?

Just from this season I recall Votto getting a walkoff hit against St. Louis. (biggest series they play during the season considering its their rival)
Bottom of the 8th hr against the Brewers (team in 1st in the division right now)
Go ahead HR off Clayton Kershaw (i think a 3 run bomb) before the bullpen blew an 8-2 lead.
Last season
I was at the game against Atlanta he tied in the 8th with a HR.
Video has already been posted of the 3 run bomb against philadelphia to win it.
He also hit a game winning HR off Halladay earlier in the season.
He hit a walkoff HR against Pittsburgh late in the season.
He led a team to the playoffs that hadn't been there since 1995.
He's the NL MVP.
Oh btw, he has 2 HR's tonight :D.

BurgervilleBuck
06-25-2011, 08:45 PM
What is you definition of clutch?

With no one on he is batting .272
With runners on he is batting .373
Runners in Scoring position .424
Scoring Position with 2 outs .458

So once again what is you definition of clutch?

Probably anything below 1.000 is considered "not clutch.":laugh:

mroby85
06-28-2011, 10:07 PM
Just from this season I recall Votto getting a walkoff hit against St. Louis. (biggest series they play during the season considering its their rival)
Bottom of the 8th hr against the Brewers (team in 1st in the division right now)
Go ahead HR off Clayton Kershaw (i think a 3 run bomb) before the bullpen blew an 8-2 lead.
Last season
I was at the game against Atlanta he tied in the 8th with a HR.
Video has already been posted of the 3 run bomb against philadelphia to win it.
He also hit a game winning HR off Halladay earlier in the season.
He hit a walkoff HR against Pittsburgh late in the season.
He led a team to the playoffs that hadn't been there since 1995.
He's the NL MVP.
Oh btw, he has 2 HR's tonight :D.

Bump- Bottom of the 8th double to break a 1-1 tie off David Price.

chuck6660
06-29-2011, 08:32 AM
If the Reds want to contend this year and next they don't touch Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Stubbs, Hernandez, Cueto, Chapman, Cordero and Arroyo. They are the building blocks, bring up Alonzo for LF and Cozart at SS.:beerme:

swaisuc
06-29-2011, 08:51 AM
Cueto and Bruce for sure. Really good young pieces signed to long-term deals that are team friendly. What else can you want to build around?

I would say Votto is as well only because the Reds are right in the middle of their window that they've setup to win now. Trading your best player doesn't make sense in that situation.

Trading Chapman doesn't make much sense because his value will never be lower IMO.

So I guess thats my list. Everyone else, it depends on the offer and our place in the standings.

bounty37h
06-29-2011, 09:39 AM
I would say no one is 100% untouchable, but I say that meaning some I would want so much back I wouldnt be able to make a trade worth it to anyone out there. I would consider Votto and Bruce my closest to untouchable, but if someone offered the world, I would take it. Phillips, Cueto, Leake prob come next in my line.