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View Full Version : What's Wrong with the Wreds?



redssince75
06-25-2011, 02:11 PM
(Remember that SI cover from the Eric Davis era -- pre-WS victory so it must have been late 80s).

So what is it? I think it is D.

bshall2105
06-25-2011, 02:20 PM
They simply aren't much more than an 85 win team. It's a combination of not having enough talent, and not having guys that pitch deep into games.

texasdave
06-25-2011, 02:24 PM
Rip Van Jocketty.

40YrRedsFan
06-25-2011, 02:57 PM
The Reds are like many other teams...they can't afford to buy championships like the Yankees, Red Sox, Philly, etc. They have to hope everything gels at the same time like happened in 1990. The Reds in 1990 were far from the best team on the field, but a hot pitcher (Rijo) and an overachieving offense came together at the right time. You can say the same about some other recent winners like Florida and the Giants. Everything just fell into place at the same time. Things haven't been going the Reds way so far this year, but were only half way home and still close in the standings. Granted, they are going to have to get back some of the magic from last year and address some of the problems that have been occurring too frequently to have a chance.

40YrRedsFan
06-25-2011, 03:09 PM
One other point, the window of opportunity is very short as far as the current players are concerned. A player in his prime probably has 3 or 4 years at his peak. If that is so, we may already be using up players like Votto and Phillips. Think about it...just about the time when Bruce, Cueto, Leake, and a few others get into their prime, Votto and Phillips may very well be on the decline. Look at Phillips now..he's has already gone from a 30/30 guy to hitting only half as many home runs and now steals very seldom. It shows why many teams play for now, and not so much the future. The Reds management seems to be looking down the road and not at today.

Maker_84
06-25-2011, 03:17 PM
they just aren't that good. Fluke year last season, needed upgrades in the offseason to keep at it but Management refused to do so.

izzy's dad
06-25-2011, 03:18 PM
The answer to this question is...many things. The Reds roster as constructed has several glaring weaknesses. The starting rotation has had problems, the offense lacks a CONSISTENT threat other than Votto, left field and short have been awful, and Rolen at third has been unimpressive. The thing that stands out to me this season is the lack of a consistent run producing bat behind Votto. Bruce has great stats, but is still young and very streaky. Cueto is the closest thing we have to an ace, and if he continues to perform at his current level will be our "ace" for years to come. Arroyo will be himself, Leake will continue to progress. In other words I am not concerned with our starting pitching. If the opposition were forced to pitch to Votto, or the "run producer" behind him we would see more wins. I am convinced that if we were to acquire such a bat this team would take off offensively. I know we are one of the better offensive team in the NL, but now is not the time to be complacent. Get a bat, get a bullpen arm, stay healthy, and the Reds will be just fine.

bubbachunk
06-25-2011, 03:19 PM
Where is the, "they are scoring less than the other team" option?

BluegrassRedleg
06-25-2011, 03:21 PM
The Reds are like many other teams...they can't afford to buy championships like the Yankees, Red Sox, Philly, etc. They have to hope everything gels at the same time like happened in 1990. The Reds in 1990 were far from the best team on the field, but a hot pitcher (Rijo) and an overachieving offense came together at the right time. You can say the same about some other recent winners like Florida and the Giants. Everything just fell into place at the same time. Things haven't been going the Reds way so far this year, but were only half way home and still close in the standings. Granted, they are going to have to get back some of the magic from last year and address some of the problems that have been occurring too frequently to have a chance.

You gotta love MLB. 80% of the teams have to hope they catch lightning in a bottle every 20 years.

Another example of why the NFL (even with all the problems they have right now) reigns supreme.

wlf WV
06-25-2011, 03:47 PM
You gotta love MLB. 80% of the teams have to hope they catch lightning in a bottle every 20 years.

Another example of why the NFL (even with all the problems they have right now) reigns supreme.

My candidate for post of the month.

wlf WV
06-25-2011, 04:02 PM
This many games into the season last year,we had won 4 more .The biggest factor is timing of question and our expectations this year.

Vottomatic
06-25-2011, 04:34 PM
1. Starting pitching isn't as good as last year.
2. Dusty's poor strategical managing got overlooked last year because they won despite him.
3. LF, SS, leadoff hitter and 4-hole hitter to protect Votto have not been addressed and are all holes for this team.
4. Division was weaker last year.
5. Rolen's age is showing.
6. Small market team. Cannot afford to buy a championship like 20% of mlb teams. Have to catch lightning in a bottle.

demas863
06-27-2011, 11:44 AM
Surprised at poll results. Sicilians got it right. "The fish stinks from the head."

brm7675
06-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Record wise we are not horribly behind where we were last year, the problem is the other teams are playing better. At this point I am rooting for us to finish around .500 this season because that is the only way change will happen.

Chris Sabowned
06-27-2011, 02:31 PM
Its still lack of quality consistent pitching in my opinion. Yes, getting a different option at SS would help. Bruce and Stubbs hitting more consistently would help too, but we have scored 10 runs in two of our last 4 games. We have one of the 5 best offenses in all of baseball. Hitting is not as easy to come by as it used to be.

krm1580
06-27-2011, 02:46 PM
The Reds problem is they are inconsistent game to game. When things are on they blow teams out. When they are off either they don't have enough pitching or don't have timely hitting and they lose close games. Look no further than the fact the Reds have the 5th best run differential in all of baseball but are barely above .500.

From a pitching standpoint they are still young which will lead to up and down peformances. Arroyo is about the only guy you know what you will get from game to game. Cueto is real close to getting there but the rest of the staff is Jekyl and Hyde.

From a hitting standpoint Votto and to a lesser extent Rolen are the only 2 guys you will get consistent at bats from. Bruce and Stubbs are a huge part of the offense but they are both so streaky the offense is Jekyl and Hyde depending on how they produce.

Fullboat
06-27-2011, 03:15 PM
Left side -- SS/3B/LF Yeach/ Yeacher / Yeachiest

Vottomatic
06-27-2011, 03:20 PM
What's Wrong with the Wreds?

1. Wjanish isn't whitting very well.
2. Wgomes isn't whitting very well either.
3. Wrolen is getting wolder and isn't whitting very well either.
4. The Wpitching is winconsistent.
5. Lack of a true whitter behind Votto.

That's what's wrong with the Wreds.

Kingspoint
06-27-2011, 05:43 PM
When your best Starting pitcher has an ERA of 5.01 (Only Arroyo and Wood have pitched enough innings to qualify as "starting pitchers" who are eligible for an ERA title.), it's pretty obvious where problem #1 is. But, there's more than one problem on this team. There aren't any Veteran Relievers who are reliable beyond CoCo. Rolen's Defense has no range. Gomes and Cairo and Lewis play too much. Renteria plays too much. Janish can't get on base. Stubbs can't make contact with the ball. Rolen can't hit. Hanigan isn't getting on base like he usually does, and he's lost his power. Phillips has lost his power.

Kingspoint
06-28-2011, 04:18 AM
One thing right with the REDS is Mike Leake:


Leake has been excellent since being reinserted into the Reds rotation on May 27, going 4-2 with a 2.49 ERA in 47 innings over seven outings.

wlf WV
06-28-2011, 05:53 AM
The starting pitching must be consistently good or there is little hope.Volquez and Bailey are the keys,we go as they go.

CrosleyField
06-28-2011, 08:45 AM
The starting pitching must be consistently good or there is little hope.Volquez and Bailey are the keys,we go as they go.

Starting pitching is the key. Travis Wood is important too. I think he is tied with Leake for quality starts but yet sometimes he gets into way too much trouble in the first inning.


DFA Renteria:thumbup:

K3drewwstubbs!6
07-17-2011, 01:32 AM
At this point in time I say relief and finishers are ruining it for us because the most recent outtings:Cordero has failed to save the last three games he has been placed in to do so... relief pitchers, I would be happy to give ondrusek and Massett more of a chance... We need too find some good relief and FAST!

kwatson0013
07-17-2011, 01:43 AM
I miss the good ole days. Where u can just walk into a Macys and walk out with free clothes. Bring those Reds days back.

LegallyMinded
07-17-2011, 09:08 PM
Interesting that a lack of "clutch" play is leading the poll. Fangraphs actually has a metric to measure clutch hitting,in which the performance of a player or team in high leverage situations is compared to the average performance of the team overall. Right now, the top three teams in "clutch" are the Pirates, Brewers and Cardinals, with scores of 3.26, 3.22 and 2.72, meaning they perform significantly better in important situations than they do overall. The Reds, meanwhile, are at -.56, meaning they play slightly worse in important situations.

Of course, these numbers alone can't tell us the root cause for the difference. I suppose there's a chance, for example, that the three teams ahead of the Reds in the central happen to be imbued with some remarkable moral fiber that allows them to knuckle down and play well beyond their true ability when the game is on the line. On the other hand, I think it's more likely that the Pirates, Brewers and Cards have just benefited from some good luck with timely hits, and will fall in the standings as their clutch score falls back to earth with more playing time.