View Full Version : Bullpen usage
TOBTTReds
06-26-2011, 10:48 PM
I haven't notice much complaining about the bullpen usage this year. I'm assuming it is because Dusty really hasn't had many choices in the past with everyone being worn out, that he had to use any player at all times.
But we are past that point of using any warm body.
Here are my questions I would ask Dusty:
Why is Arredondo one of the first guys our of the pen in a close game? You do realize in 18 innings he has given up 14 walks and 16 hits? The guy is as unreliable as Chapman yet, he's your ace in the hole.
Why does Bill Bray continue to face only LH'ers? Not to hammer Arredondo here (but I just have his stat page up), but Jose is allowing RH'ers to hit .222/.378/.361/.739 off of him. The LH'ed Bray is allowing RH'ers to hit .150/.244/.225/.469 off of him, let alone the .440 OPS LH'ers have off of him.
I would say the usage of Arredondo has been my biggest issue with the pen. How he continues to get important innings is beyond me, while Bray continues to face one lefty and gets pulled. Oddly enough, the one time Bill does get used a lot this month, was twice in the same day. I don't get it.
Also the lack of Jeremy Horst was confusing too.
I think Dusty just thinks LHP are for left handed hitters only. It baffles me sometimes.
Anyway, just looking to voice my opinion to the world on this one. Have a good week.
edabbs44
06-27-2011, 07:00 AM
Regarding Bray, his career has shown that he is more suited for a loogy role than a full time reliever. The fact that he is effective v RHH this season might be a product of the way he is being used this season, not in spite of it.
Agree on Arredondo, I've ha about enough of his close game appearances.
Griffey012
06-27-2011, 07:28 AM
I was wondering the same thing during the game yesterday with regards to Arredondo, then realized it was only the 6th innings. That is why...your lower tiered middle relievers are going to pitch those innings.
I could be wrong, but of late Arredondo has been used in close games in extras or still early in the game, sometime's a manager cannot avoid it. He could bring Masset or Ondrusek out in the 6th, but managers rarely, if ever operate that way.
cumberlandreds
06-27-2011, 07:50 AM
Arrendondo whould not have been in that game yesterday. LeCure should have gone for the 6th and 7th. I don't why Dusty has this fascination with him but he needs to get over it now. Arrendondo should be the long man be used like Fisher was or preferrably Horst.
RedsManRick
06-27-2011, 11:07 AM
I'd love to see Boxberger fast-tracked. He's destroying AA.
In terms of how Dusty uses the guys he has, I think it's hard to complain much. Just look at the innings totals for the 5 guys who have been up all year:
Masset, 40
Ondrusek, 38.1
Cordero, 34.1
Bray, 26.1
Arrendondo, 19.2
The most effective guys have gotten the most innings, save for the sole lefty with the .110 OPS split for his career. He's been good this year, but be very wary of small sample size here. His .194 BABIP vR and .222 vL suggest he's benefiting from a solid dose of good fortune.
Hoosier Red
06-27-2011, 01:31 PM
I'd love to see Boxberger fast-tracked. He's destroying AA.
In terms of how Dusty uses the guys he has, I think it's hard to complain much. Just look at the innings totals for the 5 guys who have been up all year:
Masset, 40
Ondrusek, 38.1
Cordero, 34.1
Bray, 26.1
Arrendondo, 19.2
The most effective guys have gotten the most innings, save for the sole lefty with the .110 OPS split for his career. He's been good this year, but be very wary of small sample size here. His .194 BABIP vR and .222 vL suggest he's benefiting from a solid dose of good fortune.
To truly compare though, Arrendondo wasn't up at the beginning of the year. I think he came up around May 1?
So he's gotten his 19 2/3 in about 2/3 of the games. That puts him at roughly 4th, ahead of Bray and behind Cordero.
mth123
06-27-2011, 07:17 PM
Arrendondo whould not have been in that game yesterday. LeCure should have gone for the 6th and 7th. I don't why Dusty has this fascination with him but he needs to get over it now. Arrendondo should be the long man be used like Fisher was or preferrably Horst.
Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.
Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
WebScorpion
06-28-2011, 12:46 AM
Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.
Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.I think Dusty will save LeCure for Volquez' starts until Volquie either proves he doesn't need to or is sent back down.
RedsManRick
06-28-2011, 07:04 AM
To truly compare though, Arrendondo wasn't up at the beginning of the year. I think he came up around May 1?
So he's gotten his 19 2/3 in about 2/3 of the games. That puts him at roughly 4th, ahead of Bray and behind Cordero.
Oops. Thought he was up at the beginning. That certainly changes the picture a bit. That said, I'm not sure who else we would have Dusty use. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him take advantage of guys like LeCure and Fisher and have them give him 2-3 innings at a time. On a day when the starter only gets through 5, a real long man could go a ways towards easing the burden.
757690
06-28-2011, 07:30 AM
Sergio Mitre anyone?
cumberlandreds
06-28-2011, 07:45 AM
Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.
Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
He should have been. He pitched two innings Friday and was off Saturday. I would think he could have gone at least one inning. Probably didn't matter anyway. Overall I think Dusty has used the bullpen well. I just got irritated with him bringing in Arrendondo in a very winnable game.
RedsManRick
06-28-2011, 08:19 AM
Sergio Mitre anyone?
He's got some weird stats. His ERA has been good the last 2 years, but he doesn't strike anybody out and has benefited from some lucky BABIP. There are worse long relief options out there, but I don't see him as an upgrade here. I'm surprised the Brewers we willing to DFA him -- I'm guessing they'll get something in return for him.
traderumor
06-28-2011, 09:34 AM
Don't look now, but Sam LeCure is having a great year! Two more strong innings, 3.78 K/BB, 8 Ks per 9.
Of course, two balls were crushed and fell just short of home runs....;)
PuffyPig
06-28-2011, 09:39 AM
Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.
Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
The starters have been providing much more innings for quite a while now, and is one of the reasons the bullpen has been so good this year.
Hoosier Red
06-28-2011, 03:10 PM
Oops. Thought he was up at the beginning. That certainly changes the picture a bit. That said, I'm not sure who else we would have Dusty use. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him take advantage of guys like LeCure and Fisher and have them give him 2-3 innings at a time. On a day when the starter only gets through 5, a real long man could go a ways towards easing the burden.
I agree in that case that it's hard to find a good arm to pitch the 6th inning. That's one of the reason's I think the standard "Quality Start" definition has its uses. How many times did a pitcher get the game to the back end of the bullpen and not get blown out.
In the Sunday game, Arredondo was probably the best of a lot of bad options. You know Bray, Masset, and Cordero aren't coming in. You're left with Lecure(who you may need if the game goes long) Chapman(not so much)Ondrusek(who would be a good idea, but you don't want to burn through your high leverage guys in the 6th inning too often) and Arredondo.
I guess I'd prefer Ondrusek or Lecure, but I can understand the reasons for not wanting to use them there.
Part of the reason Bray is only brought in versus lefties is a self fulfilling prophecy. While he doesn't have the huge split this year, he's still been exceptionally tough on left handed batters. So you don't want to bring him in the 6th or even the 7th if there is one lefty bat you'll need him to neutralize.
IMO, the best way to handle this is to have a general idea which inning you'll use him, and pitch him for the full inning rather than bringing him in mid inning to pitch to one or two batters. It seems as though that's what the Reds did with Rhodes last season.
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