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Brutus
06-30-2011, 06:18 PM
To avoid the inevitable hijack of the Scoreboard thread lol

I'll assert what I said in the other thread: I think the Cardinals, even if healthy, were somewhat of a mirage. They aren't a bad team, but they weren't as good as they were playing.

Especially with Pujols out of the lineup, I think Berkman is going to come down to earth even more. They just don't have the pop and their rotation outside of two guys wasn't that good to begin with.

Will M
06-30-2011, 06:36 PM
despite their poor defense I think the Brewers are the best team in the division. that could change if the Reds make some moves (likely dependent on Bob upping the payroll)

i think the Cards best days are behind them. i said that earlier in the season but they have hung on quite well despite the loss of one of the best pitchers in baseball. however, to me it seems that you can only hang in there so long with scrappy players, mix and match platoons, smoke & mirrors, vets having a miracle 1rst half, etc. eventually you have to get some real talent onto the roster. in the Cards case they just lost Pujols. ouch! i just don't see them winning the NL Central this year.

Brutus
06-30-2011, 06:44 PM
despite their poor defense I think the Brewers are the best team in the division. that could change if the Reds make some moves (likely dependent on Bob upping the payroll)

i think the Cards best days are behind them. i said that earlier in the season but they have hung on quite well despite the loss of one of the best pitchers in baseball. however, to me it seems that you can only hang in there so long with scrappy players, mix and match platoons, smoke & mirrors, vets having a miracle 1rst half, etc. eventually you have to get some real talent onto the roster. in the Cards case they just lost Pujols. ouch! i just don't see them winning the NL Central this year.

I don't know if the Brewers are the best, but they're certainly not worse.

They match the Reds at almost every position offensively, and exceed them at some. They obviously have two very good pitchers that are (arguably) as or more talented than anyone the Reds have, and they have a good back-end of the pen. But their defense and the middle of their bullpen are pretty substantially bad.

I think the Brewers have more talent in collection, but I also think they have more holes in their roster. I picked the Brewers to win the division in the poll the other day, but more because I just think the Reds are lacking that extra pitcher and extra hitter they need to put it together, and things also haven't gone their way in total. I'm not pessimistic, but I'm also not optimistic. And it's really not that I'm so bullish on Milwaukee. I do believe they have enough holes to keep the Reds in striking distance.

MikeThierry
06-30-2011, 07:27 PM
To avoid the inevitable hijack of the Scoreboard thread lol

I'll assert what I said in the other thread: I think the Cardinals, even if healthy, were somewhat of a mirage. They aren't a bad team, but they weren't as good as they were playing.

Especially with Pujols out of the lineup, I think Berkman is going to come down to earth even more. They just don't have the pop and their rotation outside of two guys wasn't that good to begin with.

As was said numerous times in the Scoreboard Thread, its coming from both sides. If someone brings up a topic such as "oh there are those dang Cards regressing to the means", I'm not going to sit back and have that go unchallenged. Its the point of a discussion board. To debate topics. If the definition of "hijacking" a thread is responding to a point, than everyone here is guilty of hijacking threads.

Anyway, getting to your original point, the Cards have done well enough thus far to stay in the division race so you might think its all smoke and mirrors but since we are half way through the year essentially it would be silly to underestimate them. This is especially true when the management of the Cardinals has a history of dealing chips to bolster their team. If the Cards were to acquire someone of Heath Bell's stature before the trade deadline, that would give them a great chance to compete in a weak division.

I also know that nobody here is sold on David Freese but he is a huge boon to the lineup. His impact since he has come back from the DL has already been felt. If Matt Holliday continues to produce, David Freese continues to produce, Colby Rasmus somehow finds a way to stop doing his best impression of Jay Bruce and being a streaky hitter, and Theriot continues to be a solid leadoff guy I think the Cards will be primed to make a run in August once Pujols comes back.

Last year, many Cards fans stupidly felt the same way about the Reds. That they were over achieving, playing above their heads, etc. Where were those fans at the end of the season? At home watching the Reds win the division and have a shot at a championship. I would caution Reds fans into thinking the Cards are all smoke and mirrors and hoping they will just falter. Hope generally doesn't reflect reality.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-30-2011, 07:35 PM
To avoid the inevitable hijack of the Scoreboard thread lol

I'll assert what I said in the other thread: I think the Cardinals, even if healthy, were somewhat of a mirage. They aren't a bad team, but they weren't as good as they were playing.

Especially with Pujols out of the lineup, I think Berkman is going to come down to earth even more. They just don't have the pop and their rotation outside of two guys wasn't that good to begin with.

I'll believe the Cards won't be a factor when they're mathematically eliminated and not before. Seems like they could bat Juan Castro and Paul Janish in the three and four spots all summer long and still contend.

That being said, the Brewers and Reds are still the best teams in the division (on paper) and it should come down to those two, with the Cards and Pirates hanging relatively close and seriously playing spoiler for either us or the Crew.

MikeThierry
06-30-2011, 07:48 PM
One huge issue for the Brewers is Marcum. He hasn't been very good lately. A big part of that is there are some nagging injuries on him from what I understand. He has really been their most consistent pitcher and if anything happens to him, that could put the Brewers in a bind.

For some reason I just cannot pick the Brewers to win the division because of how bad they play on the road. They are almost like the Carlos Gonzalez of baseball teams at this point.

Will M
06-30-2011, 08:12 PM
which teams are going to make moves to improve their teams at the deadline?
folks point to a cupboard lacking prospects & then say that the Brewers can't improve their team. IMO that arguement may have worked in 1971 but its 2011. The team could send two shoe shine boys & get a real player back in return. How? take the guys salary. there are so so many teams today looking to cut payroll that a team who is willing to add payroll can get value. i think the division may come down to moves made over the next 31 days. if thats true then i can't be a Pollyanna for the Reds. the current management seems to lack money & IMO creativity.

Mike you are right about Bell. The Cards have been linked to him. Lets say the Cards get Bell. Then they go out & get a SS (and move Theriot to 2B). suddenly its a whole new race. I would bet the odds of something like this happening as better than the Reds going out & fixing their holes.

GADawg
06-30-2011, 08:46 PM
One huge issue for the Brewers is Marcum. He hasn't been very good lately. A big part of that is there are some nagging injuries on him from what I understand. He has really been their most consistent pitcher and if anything happens to him, that could put the Brewers in a bind.

For some reason I just cannot pick the Brewers to win the division because of how bad they play on the road. They are almost like the Carlos Gonzalez of baseball teams at this point.

i never was sold on Marcum...any time someone moves from the AL East buzzers and whistles start going off all across the land and the talking heads seem to think those guys barely need to show up to dominate all "us" middling divisions.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-30-2011, 08:48 PM
It's hard to discount the Cards when they're on the verge of sweeping Baltimore rather easily after we went in there and got lit up like a Christmas tree.

Brutus
06-30-2011, 08:52 PM
As was said numerous times in the Scoreboard Thread, its coming from both sides. If someone brings up a topic such as "oh there are those dang Cards regressing to the means", I'm not going to sit back and have that go unchallenged. Its the point of a discussion board. To debate topics. If the definition of "hijacking" a thread is responding to a point, than everyone here is guilty of hijacking threads.

Anyway, getting to your original point, the Cards have done well enough thus far to stay in the division race so you might think its all smoke and mirrors but since we are half way through the year essentially it would be silly to underestimate them. This is especially true when the management of the Cardinals has a history of dealing chips to bolster their team. If the Cards were to acquire someone of Heath Bell's stature before the trade deadline, that would give them a great chance to compete in a weak division.

I also know that nobody here is sold on David Freese but he is a huge boon to the lineup. His impact since he has come back from the DL has already been felt. If Matt Holliday continues to produce, David Freese continues to produce, Colby Rasmus somehow finds a way to stop doing his best impression of Jay Bruce and being a streaky hitter, and Theriot continues to be a solid leadoff guy I think the Cards will be primed to make a run in August once Pujols comes back.

Last year, many Cards fans stupidly felt the same way about the Reds. That they were over achieving, playing above their heads, etc. Where were those fans at the end of the season? At home watching the Reds win the division and have a shot at a championship. I would caution Reds fans into thinking the Cards are all smoke and mirrors and hoping they will just falter. Hope generally doesn't reflect reality.

First, did I accuse you in particular of hijacking? I just said it was getting hijacked. No reason to take that personally. It takes two to tango, so clearly if the thread was getting derailed, it wasn't all one person. It doesn't even matter who was doing it. Just pointing out that it was happening, and so I figured I'd start a thread dedicated to the topic since it was coming up.

Bell would be a nice acquisition, but I think the Cards' have more pressing issues. Their inability to finish games has been noted, but so too has been their holes at second and short, their mediocre rotation 3-5 (Lohse is outperforming his FIP by nearly an entire run something I'm sure you will take issue with) and worst of all, the Cardinals are in the bottom quadrant of baseball at Defensive Efficiency Ratio.

Put it all together, and the Cardinals have a lot of problems.

I think, as far as Freese is concerned, it's more that you're overrating him than anyone is underrating him. He's a 28-year old with 400 career plate appearances, a .352 wOBA -- which is mostly fueled by an extremely unsustainable .400 career BABIP. Give him a full season (which seems unlikely given his propensity for injuries), and he's likely to have a modest OPS in the lower to mid .700's which is essentially average.

As far as your last comment, "Last year, many Cards fans stupidly felt the same way about the Reds. That they were over achieving, playing above their heads, etc. Where were those fans at the end of the season? At home watching the Reds win the division and have a shot at a championship. I would caution Reds fans into thinking the Cards are all smoke and mirrors and hoping they will just falter. Hope generally doesn't reflect reality."

You want to know why this isn't even remotely comparable?

Reds 2010 run differential on June 30: +78
Cards 2011 run differential on June 30: +24

Cardinals' fans not taking the Reds' seriously by this point were truly digging their heads in the sand. The Cardinals are a decent team, but now they're a decent team without its best player for the next month or more. And they already had holes as it were.

That run differential between last year's Reds and this year's Cardinals' team is pretty distinctive.

PuffyPig
06-30-2011, 08:52 PM
Hope generally doesn't reflect reality.

You ended you post with what should have been the title.

Because many feel that describes your feelings on the Cards.

Again I have to ask you "You do understand this is a Reds board". You continually seem confused when no one shows the Cards much love.

PuffyPig
06-30-2011, 08:55 PM
It's hard to discount the Cards when they're on the verge of sweeping Baltimore rather easily after we went in there and got lit up like a Christmas tree.

While we lost 2 out of 3, we outscored them 19-17 which is hardly "getting lit up like a Christmas tree".

FCB, is that you there?

Hello, hello?

GADawg
06-30-2011, 09:14 PM
I never discount the Cards or practically any other team for that matter...must be my paranoid nature 'cause lately I've even been checking the "bucco's" score. It'll be interesting to see how this next Reds/Cards series plays out because the Reds really seemed to get over a hump the last time they met. Usually our boys look a little tight and have a little deer in the headlights thing going on when they meet and I can't wait to find out if that's a thing of the past.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-30-2011, 09:20 PM
While we lost 2 out of 3, we outscored them 19-17 which is hardly "getting lit up like a Christmas tree".

FCB, is that you there?

Hello, hello?

I'd be happy with getting outscored 49-2 in any three game series, as long as my team wins a pair. I'm sure the O's and their fans feel the same way about the series and the Reds' 10-run outburst on Saturday.

The Cardinals aren't doing anything that impressive this series, they're just doing what contenders are supposed to do when they go into Camden Yards - win.

kaldaniels
06-30-2011, 09:33 PM
I'd be happy with getting outscored 49-2 in any three game series, as long as my team wins a pair. I'm sure the O's and their fans feel the same way about the series and the Reds' 10-run outburst on Saturday.

The Cardinals aren't doing anything that impressive this series, they're just doing what contenders are supposed to do when they go into Camden Yards - win.

Someone may have been onto something earlier when they speculated this is FCB.......

MikeThierry
06-30-2011, 10:03 PM
Mike you are right about Bell. The Cards have been linked to him. Lets say the Cards get Bell. Then they go out & get a SS (and move Theriot to 2B). suddenly its a whole new race. I would bet the odds of something like this happening as better than the Reds going out & fixing their holes.

Theriot is an enigma in my opinion. I have lived with his defense because he has been a very good lead off hitter for the Cards this season. We haven't had a lead off hitter this consistent in years. That said, I don't know if moving him to second would be the answer. He hasn't proven to be competent playing defense at 2nd in his career. I think it is a situation where the Cards will just have to live with his defense at SS for the rest of the season.


Again I have to ask you "You do understand this is a Reds board". You continually seem confused when no one shows the Cards much love.

That doesn't mean there can't be logical discussion on the issues. You may hate the Cards but analysis such as "oh they are just regressing to the means" isn't exactly the most thought out thought process I have seen. Brutus does an excellent job of detailing why he thinks the Cards won't last. The whole analysis of "regressing to the means" that you constantly bring up is frankly weak. For example, in one of McClellans starts it was commented on as the regression to the means argument. It was a rather lazy analysis because in that start, McClellan came back from the DL and made some minor adjustments to his wind-up. There are very few pitchers who are sharp coming back from the DL esp. if they are figuring out a new delivery to the plate. Yeah you can criticize the Cards all you want. I have no problem with it and expect it on a Reds board. However if you are going to do it at least bring something of substance to the plate.

kaldaniels
06-30-2011, 10:22 PM
I challenge someone to knock the Cards in a post without Mike knowing about it or replying to it. :D

PuffyPig
06-30-2011, 10:58 PM
That doesn't mean there can't be logical discussion on the issues. You may hate the Cards but analysis such as "oh they are just regressing to the means" isn't exactly the most thought out thought process I have seen. Brutus does an excellent job of detailing why he thinks the Cards won't last. The whole analysis of "regressing to the means" that you constantly bring up is frankly weak. For example, in one of McClellans starts it was commented on as the regression to the means argument. It was a rather lazy analysis because in that start, McClellan came back from the DL and made some minor adjustments to his wind-up. There are very few pitchers who are sharp coming back from the DL esp. if they are figuring out a new delivery to the plate. Yeah you can criticize the Cards all you want. I have no problem with it and expect it on a Reds board. However if you are going to do it at least bring something of substance to the plate.

It's well known that Carpenter has been pitching beter than his results and McClennan has been pitching much worse than his results. Based on things like xFIP.

So McClennan starting to pitch poorly or Carpenter having good results is exactly that; expected as they find their to their norms.

For posters who understand saberstats, that's actually fairly detailed. It's consistent with what I've been saying for awhile, so it's not a surprise that rhey are going in opposite directions. I said the same thing before Salas started giving up HR's every game.

MikeThierry
07-01-2011, 12:12 AM
It's well known that Carpenter has been pitching beter than his results and McClennan has been pitching much worse than his results. Based on things like xFIP.

So McClennan starting to pitch poorly or Carpenter having good results is exactly that; expected as they find their to their norms.

For posters who understand saberstats, that's actually fairly detailed. It's consistent with what I've been saying for awhile, so it's not a surprise that rhey are going in opposite directions. I said the same thing before Salas started giving up HR's every game.

Look, I understand saberstats. I just don't agree with some of the premises of those stats. Now when it comes to defense, I will take saberstats over traditional stats every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Dewan +/- system, UZR, etc just tell give you a better outlook on defense than some random scorekeeper does. Even with such advanced stats like wOBA and BABIP I don't have much of a problem. The two stats in which I feel are a bit questionable though are FIP and WAR. Both stats I feel don't accurately measure the worth of a given player. I feel they can be useful tools just like batting average or OBP can be a useful tool but shouldn't be the end all in a conversation. Just because a pitcher has a high FIP and a low ERA doesn't mean he is a worthless pitcher or will regress to some sort of mean. There are plenty of examples where the FIP and ERA do not match up but at the end of the year a pitcher will have an excellent year. It just isn't or shouldn't be a rule, like many here are making it out to be, that if a pitcher has a low ERA and a higher FIP that he will somehow not have a great year in the end.

By the way, Salas has given up 3 HR in 36 innings pitched. In retrospect, Cordero has given up 3 in 35.1 innings pitched, Hudson Street has given up 7 HR in 38 innings pitched, Fransisco Rodriguez has given up 3 HR in 37.2 innings pitch, etc. By no means am I comparing Salas to those closers. The point is though that closers will give up some home runs. Salas is still very young and is closing for the first time. The ability is there but there will be some bumps along the way. Thus far though he has been a stabilizing pitcher in the back of the bullpen. He also certainly isn't giving up a home run every game like you are describing.

Ron Madden
07-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Albert Pujols improves: likely to return early.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_5d209081-d598-59d4-b5d3-888dbac722c3.html

PuffyPig
07-03-2011, 09:35 PM
I'd be happy with getting outscored 49-2 in any three game series, as long as my team wins a pair. I'm sure the O's and their fans feel the same way about the series and the Reds' 10-run outburst on Saturday.



I wasn't referring to the point that we lost 2 out of 3. If you had said the Reds lost 2 out of 3 I'd be Ok with that as it was the truth.

But you said we "got lit up like a Christmas tree".

That implies that we were outscored badly, when it was us that outscored them.

PuffyPig
07-03-2011, 09:49 PM
Look, I understand saberstats.

By the way, Salas has given up 3 HR in 36 innings pitched.

Then you missed my point.

A little while ago, Salas had given uo zero HR's.

I mentioned previously that Salas was giving up sufficient FB's to suggest he should be giving up a reasonable number of HR's.

He then gave up 3 very quickly, suggesting he was simply regressing to the norm.

That's what saberstats told me.

I never said he would give up a inordinate amount of HR's, just that he would regress to the norm. Which he did.

Much like "clutch and late" hasn't been very clutch either late or anytime else these days.

Since I believe "clutch" is not a repeatable skill, and especially not with a AAAA player like Daniel, I'd suggest that he's simply a victim of regressing to his norm in terms of cluth hits.

He has over 200 PA's of .666 OPS.

Guys like Descalso can he OK if their AB's are very limited.

Now, lets discuss Berkman. I can't believe he's still hitting, but he keeps doing it, even against LH pitching. So, do you give him an extension? How much and how many years. How far would you go?

Chip R
07-03-2011, 09:57 PM
Now, lets discuss Berkman. I can't believe he's still hitting, but he keeps doing it, even against LH pitching. So, do you give him an extension? How much and how many years. How far would you go?

I think it depends on if Pujols re-signs. If he doesn't it makes him pretty valuable to the Cards. Maybe 4 years, $12M per. If Pujols does re-sign, he's less valuable to them but he has shown he does well in the OF. If Pujols re-signs, maybe 2 years, $10M per with a club option for a 3rd year.

PuffyPig
07-03-2011, 10:13 PM
I think it depends on if Pujols re-signs. If he doesn't it makes him pretty valuable to the Cards. Maybe 4 years, $12M per. If Pujols does re-sign, he's less valuable to them but he has shown he does well in the OF. If Pujols re-signs, maybe 2 years, $10M per with a club option for a 3rd year.


4 years is a long time for someone who will be 40 when that contract ends.

I doubt he gets more than 2 years from anyone.

But who knows.

I agree the Cards might panic if Pujols doesn't re-sign and jump at him.

traderumor
07-04-2011, 12:12 PM
Albert Pujols improves: likely to return early.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_5d209081-d598-59d4-b5d3-888dbac722c3.htmlUgh. Is Mike Thierry and Bernie the same person? I don't know that I've seen a bigger homer piece than that in quite some time. Bernie needs to be in Cards marketing.

Super human healing by Albert? Hmmmmmmmm :evil:

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Ugh. Is Mike Thierry and Bernie the same person? I don't know that I've seen a bigger homer piece than that in quite some time. Bernie needs to be in Cards marketing.

Super human healing by Albert? Hmmmmmmmm :evil:


No kidding. Did they take him to the same doctor as Colon or does Tony still has his magic juices in storage?

I(heart)Freel
07-05-2011, 10:22 AM
I'll go ahead and say it:

When Pujols comes back (today?), the Cards defense worsens and the Reds could win games entirely by the glove.

Take last night: Berkman does NOT rob Bruce's homer and Berkman does not make get to Renteria's drive that would've scored Ramon from second.

Sure, Pujols' bat could make up for those runs. I'll concede that. God knows the man has does it in the past. (Having said that, I can't find any Cueto vs. Pujols breakdown. He went 0-fer against him earlier this year, and baseball-reference.com doesn't have a split.)

Still, it bums me out when a "healthy" Cards' lineup gives up more runs than its Plan B.

klw
07-05-2011, 05:22 PM
Pujols has been reinstated but is not in the lineup. He is apparently available off the bench.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110705&content_id=21433292&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb


Pujols will not be in the lineup but presumably will be available to pinch-hit when the Cardinals play host to the Reds at Busch Stadium at 6:09 p.m. CT. Left-handed reliever Brian Tallet, who has a right intercostal strain, was placed on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to Monday, to make room for Pujols.

Ron Madden
07-06-2011, 06:36 AM
It's a sad state of affairs when the Cardinals can actually add to their lead over the Reds with Albert Pujols out of their lineup for 15 days.

As much as it pains me I have to tip my cap to the Cards and hang my head wondering just what in the hell is wrong with the Reds.

:(

MikeThierry
07-10-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm not trying to bring my personal issues into the Red Zone but it is so good to be back in the forum. I have spent a week in the hospital due to Crohn's disease issues and it is good to have some sort of normalcy back, debating baseball topics. There are too many issues that were covered this week on the forum to catch up on and respond to though so all I'm going to say is great to be back (much to the chagrin of some of the Reds fans here :laugh:) in the Red Zone. I wish the Reds and their Fans good luck the rest of the season and I really hope it will be a good NL Central fight down the road.

MikeThierry
07-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Now, lets discuss Berkman. I can't believe he's still hitting, but he keeps doing it, even against LH pitching. So, do you give him an extension? How much and how many years. How far would you go?

lol dang I thought I was just going to leave it in my last message but this is actually an intriguing question. I think maybe Berkman is at the point in his career where he might sign for less if that means staying on a winning ballclub. Sure, he could sign for the big bucks but I get a feeling he really likes the chemistry on the Cardinals. Who knows. What ever happens he has been pleasure to watch and I wish more power to him where ever he goes.

By the way, I think the injury Pujols had was kind of misunderstood a bit. Many people said it was a broken wrist but it was actually a non-displaced fracture on the forearm and it was almost like a hair-line fracture of sorts. The Cards kind of made it sound worse than it really was. Pujols is still playing with the "fracture" but normal baseball activities will not hurt it more or there isn't a greater chance that it will become worse. Pujols has played through pain all his career so it didn't really surprise me that he came back as soon as he did.

Ron Madden
07-10-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm not trying to bring my personal issues into the Red Zone but it is so good to be back in the forum. I have spent a week in the hospital due to Crohn's disease issues and it is good to have some sort of normalcy back, debating baseball topics. There are too many issues that were covered this week on the forum to catch up on and respond to though so all I'm going to say is great to be back (much to the chagrin of some of the Reds fans here :laugh:) in the Red Zone. I wish the Reds and their Fans good luck the rest of the season and I really hope it will be a good NL Central fight down the road.


Glad you are home and feeling better.

Tony Cloninger
07-10-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm not trying to bring my personal issues into the Red Zone but it is so good to be back in the forum. I have spent a week in the hospital due to Crohn's disease issues and it is good to have some sort of normalcy back, debating baseball topics. There are too many issues that were covered this week on the forum to catch up on and respond to though so all I'm going to say is great to be back (much to the chagrin of some of the Reds fans here :laugh:) in the Red Zone. I wish the Reds and their Fans good luck the rest of the season and I really hope it will be a good NL Central fight down the road.


Not to make light of your illness but right now the Reds look like they are playing with more than a few diseases. Hope you are feeling pain free for the rest of the year.

MikeThierry
07-10-2011, 08:30 PM
Thank you everyone

Chip R
07-11-2011, 12:54 AM
Good to see you back, Mike. Hope you are feeling better.

mdccclxix
07-11-2011, 02:36 AM
Between St. Louis and Milwaukee, if both stay healthy in the rotation, whoever gets their bullpen straightened out first will win this division. They're both around 4 era this year, and St. Louis has 16 losses out of their pen to Milwaukee's league high 20 losses. The Reds have 18 losses themselves but with a top 10 bullpen era in baseball it seems a bit unlucky. NY, CLE, TB and PHI have the least bullpen losses.

I firmly believe the Cards have the best rotation in the division (best WHIP and OPS) and just need another quality arm (starter or reliever) at the deadline to pull away. Their offense is better than Cincinnati now that it's healthy with Frease and, ahem, Albert.

MikeThierry
07-11-2011, 02:48 AM
Between St. Louis and Milwaukee, if both stay healthy in the rotation, whoever gets their bullpen straightened out first will win this division. They're both around 4 era this year, and St. Louis has 16 losses out of their pen to Milwaukee's league high 20 losses. The Reds have 18 losses themselves but with a top 10 bullpen era in baseball it seems a bit unlucky. NY, CLE, TB and PHI have the least bullpen losses.

I firmly believe the Cards have the best rotation in the division (best WHIP and OPS) and just need another quality arm (starter or reliever) at the deadline to pull away. Their offense is better than Cincinnati now that it's healthy with Frease and, ahem, Albert.

I kind of like what the Cards are doing with their bullpen. Management has actually woken up from its use of old veterans by getting rid of Miguel Batista and Ryan Franklin. They are finally letting young arms have a chance to succeed. Sanchez is coming back from the DL after the All Star break so that should give them a boost in the bullpen. I have also liked what I have seen from Lance Lynn. He projected to be an ok to mediocre starter but he has really done a nice job in the pen since he was put in there. The biggest flaw with the Cards bullpen is their left handed relief and I don't see any quick fixes in that regard.

mdccclxix
07-11-2011, 02:51 AM
I kind of like what the Cards are doing with their bullpen. Management has actually woken up from its use of old veterans by getting rid of Miguel Batista and Ryan Franklin. They are finally letting young arms have a chance to succeed. Sanchez is coming back from the DL after the All Star break so that should give them a boost in the bullpen. I have also liked what I have seen from Lance Lynn. He projected to be an ok to mediocre starter but he has really done a nice job in the pen since he was put in there. The biggest flaw with the Cards bullpen is their left handed relief and I don't see any quick fixes in that regard.

IMO, it would behoove them to slightly overpay at the deadline for an arm that will shore them up for the year. Not sure if that means Shelby Miller for Anibel or Nolasco or the ilk, but they should do something soon.

MikeThierry
07-11-2011, 02:57 AM
IMO, it would behoove them to slightly overpay at the deadline for an arm that will shore them up for the year. Not sure if that means Shelby Miller for Anibel or Nolasco or the ilk, but they should do something soon.

Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are untouchable right now if the Cards are going to sign Pujols. Those two pitching prospects will be great in the rotation in a year or two and will add cost certainty for a large payroll. With the drafting of Wong this year at 2nd, I think Zach Cox becomes almost a player without a position in the Cardinals organization sort of like what Brett Wallace was a couple of years ago. I could see a Zach Cox type trade for something.

That said, I don't know if there is a whole lot out there the Cards can get. Heath Bell is the big name but I don't see the Cards giving up a lot for a rental player. They might have to just live with what they have. Though with Dave Duncan's history, they might be able to find a diamond in the rough somewhere out there.

mdccclxix
07-11-2011, 03:19 AM
Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are untouchable right now if the Cards are going to sign Pujols. Those two pitching prospects will be great in the rotation in a year or two and will add cost certainty for a large payroll. With the drafting of Wong this year at 2nd, I think Zach Cox becomes almost a player without a position in the Cardinals organization sort of like what Brett Wallace was a couple of years ago. I could see a Zach Cox type trade for something.

That said, I don't know if there is a whole lot out there the Cards can get. Heath Bell is the big name but I don't see the Cards giving up a lot for a rental player. They might have to just live with what they have. Though with Dave Duncan's history, they might be able to find a diamond in the rough somewhere out there.

Yeah, ya know relieving is a funny thing, in the Cards case they may want to sign a bunch of guys, trade for some others without giving much up and see what sticks, although a guy like Heath Bell would really make them a top notch squad and a WS dark horse. They've got the bats to face Philly, I think.

MikeThierry
07-11-2011, 04:39 AM
Yeah, ya know relieving is a funny thing, in the Cards case they may want to sign a bunch of guys, trade for some others without giving much up and see what sticks, although a guy like Heath Bell would really make them a top notch squad and a WS dark horse. They've got the bats to face Philly, I think.

I will say that with the Cardinals full lineup, there isn't a lot of easy outs there. Rasmus is an enigma right now and its frustrating to see him turning into another JD Drew but he is still a dangerous bat at times. I would say that Schumaker is probably be the easiest out of them all but he has really come on after missing time on the DL and getting playing time under his feet. The last 28 days he has been hitting .311 with .361 OBP. I'll take that in the 8 hole.

PuffyPig
07-11-2011, 12:52 PM
I have also liked what I have seen from Lance Lynn. He projected to be an ok to mediocre starter but he has really done a nice job in the pen since he was put in there.


Lynn reminds me of Sam Lecure.

His stuff plays up much better out of the pen.

corkedbat
07-11-2011, 01:34 PM
But How does Carpenter explain this thread to his son?

It just had to be asked.

MikeThierry
07-11-2011, 01:43 PM
Lynn reminds me of Sam Lecure.

His stuff plays up much better out of the pen.

Puffy, I totally agree with you. His velocity seems higher when coming out of the pen. I guess its because he can let it fly instead of trying to save energy as a starter.

Really though, there is way anyone can explain this thread to his son :lol:

MikeThierry
07-12-2011, 12:13 PM
The Colby Rasmus issue in St. Louis has become intriguing. It would not surprise me if the Cards decide to wash their hands with him at the trade deadline. Here is an interesting read about the situation:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_847d9b1a-abce-11e0-a1b3-001a4bcf6878.html

Sea Ray
07-12-2011, 12:46 PM
I look at the Cardinals in baseball like I do the Steelers in football. No matter how many injuries, retirements or whatever, never take them lightly. They have a way of outplaying their roster. Their roster sure didn't look like a World Championship one a few years ago but they won the WS anyway. I take them every bit as seriously as the Brewers. As for our Reds, if they can't play .500 ball it doesn't matter how good the other teams are. We need to fix our own house and not worry about the competition

traderumor
07-12-2011, 01:12 PM
The Colby Rasmus issue in St. Louis has become intriguing. It would not surprise me if the Cards decide to wash their hands with him at the trade deadline. Here is an interesting read about the situation:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_847d9b1a-abce-11e0-a1b3-001a4bcf6878.htmlIt seems the sportswriter is more worried about daddy's assistance than TLR is. What matters is the guy in charge's opinion. And Bernie doesn't even touch on the merits of the dad, just says "dad's shouldn't be meddling in MLB." I don't know how he makes this conclusion without exploring the qualifications of daddy.

MikeThierry
07-12-2011, 10:22 PM
It seems the sportswriter is more worried about daddy's assistance than TLR is. What matters is the guy in charge's opinion. And Bernie doesn't even touch on the merits of the dad, just says "dad's shouldn't be meddling in MLB." I don't know how he makes this conclusion without exploring the qualifications of daddy.

Actually, this is kind of a huge story here in St. Louis and the media here, not just the article Bernie has written. Tony Rasmus has had a history of spouting off like a drunk. Tony Rasmus has some experience coaching but the way he spouts off randomly makes him look foolish. One comment he recently made was that maybe the Cards should hire him in the organization because of his "qualifications". Its beyond ridiculous and I have never seen a situation like this before.

Its just not Rasmus father issues that are concerning, he looks just like a mentally weak player who probably needs a change of scenery. He has all the talent in the world but I just don't see him taking it to the next level here in St. Louis which is a high demanding town for their baseball players. There are some on going rumors that the Rays are interested in his bat (which they need) and it wouldn't surprise me if the Cards get one of their talented young pitchers in return. Jeremy Hellickson would certainly look nice in the Cards starting rotation.

PuffyPig
07-14-2011, 08:50 AM
The Colby Rasmus issue in St. Louis has become intriguing. It would not surprise me if the Cards decide to wash their hands with him at the trade deadline. Here is an interesting read about the situation:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_847d9b1a-abce-11e0-a1b3-001a4bcf6878.html

The Cards could trade Rasmus for a real pitcher if they wanted. Not like a typical deadline deal, but a real baseball trade, value for value.

I'd love Rasmus. He doesn't play CF as well as I thought he would, but he could become a great fielding LF for us and give us as good a young OF as exists in the majors.

I doubt the Cards would want to trade him to us.

Tampa looks like a spot they could look to.

mth123
07-14-2011, 09:15 AM
The Cards could trade Rasmus for a real pitcher if they wanted. Not like a typical deadline deal, but a real baseball trade, value for value.

I'd love Rasmus. He doesn't play CF as well as I thought he would, but he could become a great fielding LF for us and give us as good a young OF as exists in the majors.

I doubt the Cards would want to trade him to us.

Tampa looks like a spot they could look to.

I'd love Rasmus as well, but the Reds can't afford to deal Cueto. Any of the Reds other starters would basically mean the Cards are giving him away.

MikeThierry
07-14-2011, 08:49 PM
The Cards could trade Rasmus for a real pitcher if they wanted. Not like a typical deadline deal, but a real baseball trade, value for value.

I'd love Rasmus. He doesn't play CF as well as I thought he would, but he could become a great fielding LF for us and give us as good a young OF as exists in the majors.

I doubt the Cards would want to trade him to us.

Tampa looks like a spot they could look to.

There is no way the Cards trade him within the division. If that happened, Mo would get crucified out of town.

Another intriguing option would be the Braves. They have a wealth of pitching talent and Rasmus is from Georgia. Plus I think the Nate McClouth experiment has pretty much run its course.

PuffyPig
07-15-2011, 11:50 PM
If salas regresses to him norm anymore, he'll have a new norm.

camisadelgolf
07-20-2011, 04:13 AM
http://youtu.be/pI8l87uyDXM

MikeThierry
07-31-2011, 04:19 AM
I didn't know where else to pit this tidbit but this is from ESPN:

Albert Pujols recorded his 2000th career hit on Friday in his 6093rd at-bat and with 431 home runs to his credit. The only player in major-league history to reach 2000 hits in as few at-bats as Pujols while having as many homers is Babe Ruth, who got to that milestone in 1929 in his 5768th at-bat with 495 home runs.

reds44
07-31-2011, 04:21 AM
Cardinals board would be a good place ;)

MikeThierry
07-31-2011, 04:23 AM
Cardinals board would be a good place ;)

I would put that interesting tidbit of information there but it would be lost in between the "Fire TLR" threads and "Ryan Theriot: What is he good for?" threads.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2011, 05:47 PM
Cardinals board would be a good place ;)

I laughed out loud at this. Well played, sir.

reds44
08-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Cardinals complained the Brewers are stealing signs at home and the lights around home play were dimmed.

It never stops!

marcshoe
08-02-2011, 08:45 PM
Here's the link. (http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2011/08/02/cardinals-brewers-bicker-over-ribbon-board/) Larussa's unbelievable.

nate
08-02-2011, 10:20 PM
Cardinals complained the Brewers are stealing signs at home and the lights around home play were dimmed.

It never stops!

Wow, lame.

Of the Cardinals, not you!

:cool:

Homer Bailey
08-02-2011, 11:08 PM
From the comments section:


Brandon Phillips, the prophet

Red in Chicago
08-02-2011, 11:29 PM
Cardinals board would be a good place ;)

Funniest thing you've ever said :lol:

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:33 PM
LOL the Brewers announcers are going OFF on the Cardinals right now.

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:35 PM
Pujols got hit by a pitch with 2 men on and nobody out in the 7th in a one one game. HE GOT HIT TO LOAD THE BASES WITH NOBODY OUT.

Motte comes in for the bottom of the 7th, barely missed Braun with the first pitch, drills him with the second pitch.

What a bunch of clowns. Clowns.

Reds Freak
08-02-2011, 11:35 PM
Situation in Milwaukee tonight...Pujols gets hit, LaRussa brings in hard-throwing Jason Motte, he throws three at Ryan Braun hitting him with the third nearly causing a brawl. LaRussa then takes out Motte. Cardinals philosophy seems to be lately if you can't beat them, fight them...

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:35 PM
Brewers color guy "that's as bush league as it gets...the Cardinals are the keepers of baseball...complain about everything"

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:37 PM
It's the bottom of the 7th in a tie game too. A huge game at that.

How dumb can you be?

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:37 PM
Haha now the Brewers announcer is going after LaRussa. This is awesome.

mbgrayson
08-02-2011, 11:40 PM
Brewers color guy "that's as bush league as it gets...the Cardinals are the keepers of baseball...complain about everything"

This was the exact quote by the Brewers TV guy. He NAILED it.

"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal's baseball."

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:41 PM
This was the exact quote by the Brewers TV guy. He NAILED it.

"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal baseball."
That's such an awesome quote. Sig worthy.

signalhome
08-02-2011, 11:48 PM
This was the exact quote by the Brewers TV guy. He NAILED it.

"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal's baseball."

:thumbup:

Nothing they do surprises me.

reds44
08-02-2011, 11:48 PM
Brewers now have the bases loaded nobody out. Hope that was worth it, Tony.

forfreelin04
08-02-2011, 11:58 PM
Brewers now have the bases loaded nobody out. Hope that was worth it, Tony.

It was all his evil master plan. No runs score with bases loaded nobody out. Brewers luck starting to turn.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 12:02 AM
Brewers failed to score.

I know the Reds would pick up a game if the Cards win, but I just can't root for them. Even if the Cardinals were playing the devil himself, I'll be cheering for 'ol satan....

Slyder
08-03-2011, 12:02 AM
This was the exact quote by the Brewers TV guy. He NAILED it.

"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal's baseball."

Yep I think I have my new sig.

Matt700wlw
08-03-2011, 12:11 AM
Brewers failed to score.

I know the Reds would pick up a game if the Cards win, but I just can't root for them. Even if the Cardinals were playing the devil himself, I'll be cheering for 'ol satan....

Reds have to get past the Pirates before they worry about anybody else. At this point, none of it really matters though. Too many obstacles in front of them, much of it their own doing.

I think the Pirates will take care of that themselves, though. I think their fade is beginning.

Chip R
08-03-2011, 12:58 AM
Molina just got called out on strikes and he was ejected. Molina then bumped and spat at the ump.

reds44
08-03-2011, 12:59 AM
Hahahahahahahahahaha and the Brewers color guy is at it again!

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Molina just got called out on strikes and he was ejected. Molina then bumped and spat at the ump.

Hilarious...I was following it on Gameday and the called strike 3 showed up being out of the zone, and I thought to myself, "Necktat won't like that".

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 01:01 AM
Molina will be suspended for that outburst. Wow. Those little female doggies are something....

Captain Hook
08-03-2011, 01:01 AM
Molina just got called out on strikes and he was ejected. Molina then bumped and spat at the ump.

What a baby.I think that's the most upset I've seen a player at a called 3rd strike.

Chip R
08-03-2011, 01:03 AM
Corey Patterson did what Corey Patterson does best: Strike out on a pitch a foot above his head.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2011, 01:03 AM
Bumped the ump 3 times and spit in his face twice. That's got to be a HUGE suspension, right?


"These guys really are something..." BrewCrew color guy :)

Chip R
08-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Bumped the ump 3 times and spit in his face twice. That's got to be a HUGE suspension, right?


He'll get a game since he plays for StL.

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Bumped the ump 3 times and spit in his face twice. That's got to be a HUGE suspension, right?


"These guys really are something..." BrewCrew color guy :)

Like Roberto Alomar type spit in his face???

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:05 AM
Cue MikeTheirry explaining how Molina has a hereditary salivary gland disease which caused the spittle to fly.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2011, 01:05 AM
Like Roberto Alomar type spit in his face???

Not quite, tbh. It was more like when he got worked up and it was spittle, but he did do it twice and pretty blatant about it to boot.

After he bumped the ump the first time, the ump got a face full of spittle and wiped it off and Molina kept going off on him, bumped him 2 more times and ended up spitting in his face a 2nd time.

Tom Servo
08-03-2011, 01:06 AM
Kinda wish we had a Brewers fan on here.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 01:07 AM
Bumped the ump 3 times and spit in his face twice. That's got to be a HUGE suspension, right?
"These guys really are something..." BrewCrew color guy :)

Probably not. Papelbon got a 2 game suspension for bumping ump this year, and Navarro also got a 2 gamer last year.

The spitting wasn't on purpose, but from hollering in the ump's face.

Captain Hook
08-03-2011, 01:07 AM
Corey Patterson did what Corey Patterson does best: Strike out on a pitch a foot above his head.

I don't think I've ever seen someone swing at a ball that far out of the strike zone.This game is full of all kinds of first for me.

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:08 AM
Probably not. Papelbon got a 2 game suspension for bumping ump this year, and Navarro also got a 2 gamer.

The spitting wasn't on purpose, but from hollering in the ump's face.

That's just gross and unacceptable if you ask me. Spit in the face is spit in the face.

Captain Hook
08-03-2011, 01:09 AM
I'm actually trying to root for the Cardinal but they make it imposible.Come on Brewers!!

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:11 AM
Walk em both Tony.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2011, 01:12 AM
"Ump is a drama queen. C'mon man. Nobody was spitting on you."
"Yadi just went [expletive] OFF. I'm proud."

-from Cards message board

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 01:14 AM
For the Reds, we really should root for a 25 inning game, and two or three pitcher's arms to fall off. Then a suspended game, to play on one of their off days. Then we might get right back in this thing.

Captain Hook
08-03-2011, 01:17 AM
For the Reds, we really should root for a 25 inning game, and two or three pitcher's arms to fall off. Then a suspended game, to play on one of their off days. Then we might get right back in this thing.

I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe these two teams can beat each other to death so the Reds only have to worry about catching the Pirates.

VR
08-03-2011, 01:37 AM
Sheesh, 4 more unearned runs vs. the Cards tonight.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 01:40 AM
Cards win 8 to 7, Dotel with the save. Reds gain a game, and I feel a little sick being sorta happy the Cardinals won.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 01:43 AM
If Yadi did spit on the umpire, regardless if it was intentional or not, he should be suspended.

This might have been one of the more crazier games I have seen all year.

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 01:46 AM
If Yadi did spit on the umpire, regardless if it was intentional or not, he should be suspended.

This might have been one of the more crazier games I have seen all year.

I just saw it for the first time. Looked like a close strike call which didn't warrant Yadi's explosion. I thought it would be well out of the zone.

That said, I really don't think Yadi bumped him that much. And I wonder how much spit did fly. Just looked like a tantrum to me.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 01:49 AM
I just saw it for the first time. Looked like a close strike call which didn't warrant Yadi's explosion. I thought it would be well out of the zone.

That said, I really don't think Yadi bumped him that much. And I wonder how much spit did fly. Just looked like a tantrum to me.

It also kind of looked like dramatics from the home plate umpire. I can understand why Yadi was mad because that ball wasn't called a strike all night long but he can't lose his cool.


By the way... Dotel can still bring it against right handed batters. Even though he is 1000 years old, right handed batters are only hitting .143 against him.

fearofpopvol1
08-03-2011, 02:16 AM
"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal's baseball."

I think this is the truth. I have never in my entire life seen a manager/coach and a collective professional team complain as much as the Cards do. It's unbelievable. The Cards have such an amazing history, tradition and organizational philosophy when it comes to playing baseball. But class? They could use an enormous intervention there as I'd have them in last place.

PS, I'm distraught I missed this game. I would have loved to have seen it. If the highlights go up somewhere (especially from the Brewers telecast) please let me know.

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:16 AM
Aaaaand LaRussa just lost his mind in the post game press conference! lol

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:17 AM
drewsilv Drew Silva
by CBSSportsMLB
TLR postgame: Called Brewers fans "idiots." A reporter then says, "You went at Braun with your hardest thrower." TLR goes nuts.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 02:20 AM
haha that was a classic post game interview. He called the Brewers fans idiots, lol

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:21 AM
I wonder if he'll fall asleep at a stop sign on the way back to the hotel. Too soon?

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:24 AM
http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/video-yadier-molina-bumps-spits-on-umpire/

LOL @ the Cardinals TV broadcast. You want to talk about delusional!

Oh apparently you "never see" Molina get angry! Could have fooled me!

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 02:30 AM
http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/video-yadier-molina-bumps-spits-on-umpire/

LOL @ the Cardinals TV broadcast. You want to talk about delusional!

Oh apparently you "never see" Molina get angry! Could have fooled me!

This is the reason why people in St. Louis can't stand the tv broadcast. KMOX broadcast is far superior.

I have never seen Yadi react that way to an umpires call so that isn't really Yadi's character.

I can understand Yadi's anger because that ball was way inside but he still can't lose his cool and can't bump the umpire. He should be suspended for a couple of games.

There was also some show boating by the umpire but that is a whole different topic.

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:31 AM
Molina starts fights with players and umpires a like. Totally in his character now. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 02:35 AM
Molina starts fights with players and umpires a like. Totally in his character now. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.

The only player he "started a fight" with is Phillips because of Phillips comments and Phillips tapping him on his legs two times in a row. Its not like he just goes around and starts fights randomly. Like I said, he never reacted this way to an ump before. It is silly to look at one incident and apply that to his every day character.

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:41 AM
But it's not one incident now, it's two. How many do you get?

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 02:44 AM
But it's not one incident now, it's two. How many do you get?

Every player loses his cool. Its nothing new in baseball. Get over it.

reds44
08-03-2011, 02:45 AM
Every player loses his cool. Its nothing new in baseball. Get over it.
How can you say something is out of his character when he's shown it to be completely in his character?

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 02:56 AM
How can you say something is out of his character when he's shown it to be completely in his character?

He has never acted like that to an ump before. One incident with an ump does not make one's character. The only thing I can figure is that you are trying to hold all players to the same standards as someone like Stan Musial. That's fine, but I think most players would fail that gold standard.

Let me do the reverse to you. I could easily say that all Brandon Phillips does is instigate fights and say things to aggravate teams. However, I know he is more than that. He is an excellent community guy and is really good with the fans. He is one of the better guys in baseball. It would be stupid to hold one incident against him when he is so much more than what he has shown on that one occasion.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 03:27 AM
lol here is a link to the post game interview. The quality is a bit bad but you get the idea:

‪Tony Larussa reactions-Cardinals vs Brewers‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_GKkJJffE)

thatcoolguy_22
08-03-2011, 03:33 AM
Are the Brewers the Card's 2010 Reds? Seems like they start trouble with whoever is leading the division. Stay classy, St. Louis.

Brutus
08-03-2011, 03:35 AM
lol here is a link to the post game interview. The quality is a bit bad but you get the idea:

‪Tony Larussa reactions-Cardinals vs Brewers‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_GKkJJffE)

Tony is such a freakin' liar.

First he says nothing was intentional, it was just inside. Then he said they were trying to throw a message. Then he said no it was just inside. Then after the reporter mentioned it looked intention, he starts going off on the Brewers for throwing inside.

He was changing his story so many times in that interview I can't keep it straight. Which is it Tony... were you just throwing inside, were you sending a message or were you upset they were throwing in on Pujols? LOL

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 03:43 AM
Tony is such a freakin' liar.

First he says nothing was intentional, it was just inside. Then he said they were trying to throw a message. Then he said no it was just inside. Then after the reporter mentioned it looked intention, he starts going off on the Brewers for throwing inside.

He was changing his story so many times in that interview I can't keep it straight. Which is it Tony... were you just throwing inside, were you sending a message or were you upset they were throwing in on Pujols? LOL

Right, he was sending a message because it was inside near Pujols head and hands, which happened yesterday as well. That isn't to say that area is off limits but if the other manager is going to do it, the pitcher better have control hence the "Is the guy Greg Maddox" quote. It has always been TLR's policy that that area be off limits because of the danger it represents and he has sent the other team messages in the past by pitching inside if his player is being pitched like that. This year particularly is of concern because Freese was out two months due to being hit by a ball on the hand and Laird went on the DL as well due to being hit on the hand.

TLR said that he was sending a message by throwing inside to Braun but wasn't trying to hit him. Now, I don't know if you know Motte but he isn't the most accurate pitcher in the world. Still, it was in an area on Braun that if it hit him (which it did), there would be no damage done. If this was baseball 40 years ago, this stuff wouldn't be an issue because the game was policed by the players.

Brutus
08-03-2011, 03:45 AM
Right, he was sending a message because it was inside near Pujols head and hands, which happened yesterday as well. That isn't to say that area is off limits but if the other manager is going to do it, the pitcher better have control hence the "Is the guy Greg Maddox" quote. It has always been TLR's policy that that area be off limits because of the danger it represents. This year particularly is of concern because Freese was out two months due to being hit by a ball on the hand and Laird went on the DL as well due to being hit on the hand.

TLR said that he was sending a message by throwing inside to Braun but wasn't trying to hit him. Now, I don't know if you know Motte but he isn't the most accurate pitcher in the world. Still, it was in an area on Braun that if it hit him (which it did), there would be no damage done. If this was baseball 40 years ago, this stuff wouldn't be an issue because the game was policed by the players.

If he's so adamant about the danger in it, then why do it? He's a hypocrite. If he's so worried about the danger, he shouldn't be intentionally doing it to someone else. Period.

Tony's not worried about that, though. He's worried about being Tony.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 03:47 AM
If he's so adamant about the danger in it, then why do it? He's a hypocrite. If he's so worried about the danger, he shouldn't be intentionally doing it to someone else. Period.

Tony's not worried about that, though. He's worried about being Tony.

Motte did not pitch near Braun's head. That is the issue. TLR doesn't even have a problem with pitching inside. Its the head and hand area that he has a problem with. Pujols was almost hit in the head tonight and when he moved out of the way it hit his hand. Think about it, if Votto was almost hit in the head by a ball, don't you think Baker would send a message to the other side the next inning?

Again, the ball that Motte threw was inside in the midsection of Braun and there was no danger of that ball breaking his hands or hitting him in the head.

It should also be noted that when Cardinals pitchers are first associated with TLR, one of the first rules he puts out there to his pitchers is never intentionally pitch toward a guys head. I have heard that TLR has this policy from several different pitchers and ex-pitchers that pitched under TLR.

reds44
08-03-2011, 03:52 AM
http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/pages/video?UUID=3372209a-4033-4617-8f36-5030a15f8a85

Better quality lol

AtomicDumpling
08-03-2011, 03:52 AM
That's funny the Cardinals were whining about the lights and stealing signs. I remember they have cried in the past about the pitcher's mound in GABP, the baseballs were rubbed up wrong once and Carpenter threw a sissy-fit about the smoke after someone took him deep to set off the fireworks.

reds44
08-03-2011, 03:55 AM
They complained about the White Sox stealing signs a few years back when they went into U.S. Cellular and got absolutely rolled in a 3 game series too.

It's what they do.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 03:55 AM
That's funny the Cardinals were whining about the lights and stealing signs. I remember they have cried in the past about the pitcher's mound in GABP, the baseballs were rubbed up wrong once and Carpenter threw a sissy-fit about the smoke after someone took him deep to set off the fireworks.

The whole fireworks thing is a bit overplayed. The ump stopped that game for a second and it had nothing to do with Carpenter throwing a sissy fit.

reds44
08-03-2011, 03:56 AM
The whole fireworks thing is a bit overplayed. The ump stopped that game for a second and it had nothing to do with Carpenter throwing a sissy fit.
Oh yes it did. That's the only time I've ever seen them stop the game because of the smoke.

Brutus
08-03-2011, 03:58 AM
Motte did not pitch near Braun's head. That is the issue. TLR doesn't even have a problem with pitching inside. Its the head and hand area that he has a problem with. Pujols was almost hit in the head tonight and when he moved out of the way it hit his hand. Think about it, if Votto was almost hit in the head by a ball, don't you think Baker would send a message to the other side the next inning?

Again, the ball that Motte threw was inside in the midsection of Braun and there was no danger of that ball breaking his hands or hitting him in the head.

Tony has a problem with everything that goes against the Cardinals.

It's the baseballs not being rubbed down
It's the mounds
It's the lighting
It's the up-and-tight pitching
It's the tar on the cap
It's the announcers that don't apologize
It's the showboating
It's the dirty hands
It's the stealing signs
It's the fake Twitter accounts
It's the fatherly advice
It's the players union
It's the on-deck batter that didn't move

It's one thing after another with this man

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 03:58 AM
Oh yes it did. That's the only time I've ever seen them stop the game because of the smoke.

But Carpenter did not lobby the ump to stop the game temporarily. The ump came to him.

reds44
08-03-2011, 04:02 AM
Because he was throwing a fit.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 04:03 AM
Because he was throwing a fit.

umm... no he wasn't.

reds44
08-03-2011, 04:04 AM
So in the first time in GABP history the umpire asked the pitcher if he wanted to stop the game after a homer randomly?

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 04:09 AM
So in the first time in GABP history the umpire asked the pitcher if he wanted to stop the game after a homer randomly?

All I can go by is what was said in a local interview with one of the Cardinals insiders. Carpenter was responding to what your announcer said about "whining" on the field. He told the reporter that he was willing to pitch through the smoke but the ump came to him and told him not to throw.

It was the same thing with the mound. The umpire came up to Carpenter between innings asking if something needed to be put down on the mound to make it easier to pitch. He didn't really lobby for it. Even if he did, he isn't the first pitcher in the history of baseball to ask for dirt to be put on a wet mound. It happens all the time. Carpenter didn't understand the issue that your broadcaster had. Your broadcaster just seemed to react to the situation without knowing the whole story.

reds44
08-03-2011, 04:11 AM
Yes, the Cardinals do nothing wrong ever.

I assume I should believe LaRussa when he says they weren't trying to hit Braun too, right?

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 04:19 AM
Yes, the Cardinals do nothing wrong ever.

I assume I should believe LaRussa when he says they weren't trying to hit Braun too, right?

I'll criticize them when they need to be criticized. Lord knows how many times I have criticized them this year on several things in my conversations with other Cards fans. However I would also suggest that people get the whole story on an issue instead of getting the side of a broadcaster that may have blown a gasket. You may hate Carp but that doesn't mean his explanation isn't right.

After seeing two of our players injured because pitchers can't pitch effectively inside this season, I see his point about pitching near the head.

Matt700wlw
08-03-2011, 05:00 AM
The Reds are not making the playoffs.

GO BREWERS! Frustrate the dog poo out of these babies!!

thatcoolguy_22
08-03-2011, 05:04 AM
The Reds are not making the playoffs.

GO BREWERS! Frustrate the dog poo out of these babies!!

Come September... I'm still hoping for Rockies esque finish to the season and Cueto dominates whoever in game 163 :D

Ron Madden
08-03-2011, 05:07 AM
I don't expect Molina to draw a suspension anywhere near as long as the 30 days levied against Pete Rose for bumping an Ump but anywhere between 10-15 days would be nice. ;)

15fan
08-03-2011, 07:10 AM
The Reds are not making the playoffs.

GO BREWERS! Frustrate the dog poo out of these babies!!

This.

I really hope the Cards end up losing the division by 1 game.

If the Reds can't win the division, that's clearly the 2nd best way to end the season.

GADawg
08-03-2011, 07:33 AM
do the Cards even have another catcher? Seems like Molina catches every game

membengal
08-03-2011, 07:40 AM
Last night was a very good night for Brandon Philips.

I would honestly be embarrassed to root for the Cardinals. I would be even more embarrassed to actually defend that display last night.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-03-2011, 08:18 AM
The cardinals continue to do a fine job of proving Brandon Phillips right.

I doubt there's a team in the NL (and throw in the royals since they routinely play the cards) that doesn't agree 100% with BP.

Barring a miraculous Reds run the next two months, go Brewers!

puca
08-03-2011, 08:50 AM
That pitch up and in on Albert the other night was a bit scary - intentional or not. Braun getting hit doesn't really bother me much. It was a message pitch and a fairly safe one at that. But that should have been it. LaRussa's ranting to reporters was sanctimonious and over the top as usual.

Oh, and if Tony is so worried about Albert getting hit in the hands, perhaps he should tell him not to set up with them hanging over the plate in the strike zone.

Molina last night looked absolutely silly. I watched the replay a few times from a few different angles. I can only guess that he was already jacked about some previoius calls because the one that he argued was a pretty good pitch. The worst part was that he chased the umpire around chest-bumping him and spraying him with spittle. And then after the game he made excuse after excuse for his actions never once taking responsibility.

And I think that is what rubs people the wrong way with the Cardinals. Nothing is ever even partially their fault. Always it seems that someone else has done them wrong and they are completely justified with their response.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 09:48 AM
Again, the ball that Motte threw was inside in the midsection of Braun and there was no danger of that ball breaking his hands or hitting him in the head.

This is simply not true. First you mention Motte's poor control; if the ball goes up on him, Braun gets hit in the head. Then you mention the midsection. If Braun turns the wrong way, the ball hits his hands. If the ball goes a little bit less inside, it would have been right at his hands.

Anyone who thinks it is OK to throw directly at the other team's players, while whining about hand injuries to his own team, is fooling himself at best. The correct baseball etiquette is that it's OK to pitch inside, and the batter has to get his hands out of the way. If you bat with your hands in the strike zone, or right off the zone, you may get hit.

Make no mistake: when Larussa has his pitchers PURPOSELY hit the other team, in retaliation for an accidental HBP, that is escalating the situation and provoking problems. That my friends, is Cardinal baseball: Bush League.

Redsfan320
08-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Wow, what a swell bunch of guys! Yadi should have a nice long suspension. And TLR calling Brewers fans "idiots" was outta line too. Dusty's complacency ticks me off sometimes, but I'll take him over the downright jerk LaCrybaby is any day.

320

Chip R
08-03-2011, 09:57 AM
Make no mistake: when Larussa has his pitchers PURPOSELY hit the other team, in retaliation for an accidental HBP, that is escalating the situation and provoking problems. That my friends, is Cardinal baseball: Bush League.

This x 1000

Redsfan320
08-03-2011, 10:05 AM
Oh, and who was that Brewers reporter? He deserves a promotion!

320

WMR
08-03-2011, 10:40 AM
Every player loses his cool. Its nothing new in baseball. Get over it.

What's up with the Cardinal fan coming onto our board telling us to "get over" stuff? :rolleyes:

Always Red
08-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Oh, and if Tony is so worried about Albert getting hit in the hands, perhaps he should tell him not to set up with them hanging over the plate in the strike zone.



this

Watch Pujols set up- his hands are in the strike zone. He could get hit by a pitch that would otherwise be a strike, if he didn't move.

Pitching inside is part of the game, and what all great pitchers do. How would Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale pitch to Pujols?

WMR
08-03-2011, 10:52 AM
http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/pages/video?UUID=3372209a-4033-4617-8f36-5030a15f8a85

Better quality lol

Liar/Hypocrite... Business as usual for DUI Tony.

You would think a lawyer would be more adept at avoiding such obvious self-incriminating statements.

OesterPoster
08-03-2011, 10:56 AM
Oh, and who was that Brewers reporter? He deserves a promotion!

320

According to Brewers' fans, it was Greg Matzek of Sportsradio 620 AM in Milwaukee.

I'm a fan. :)

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/directory/44931567.html

I(heart)Freel
08-03-2011, 11:20 AM
All I can go by is what was said in a local interview with one of the Cardinals insiders. Carpenter was responding to what your announcer said about "whining" on the field. He told the reporter that he was willing to pitch through the smoke but the ump came to him and told him not to throw.

It was the same thing with the mound. The umpire came up to Carpenter between innings asking if something needed to be put down on the mound to make it easier to pitch. He didn't really lobby for it. Even if he did, he isn't the first pitcher in the history of baseball to ask for dirt to be put on a wet mound. It happens all the time. Carpenter didn't understand the issue that your broadcaster had. Your broadcaster just seemed to react to the situation without knowing the whole story.

I appreciate your viewpoint and respect you putting yourself "out there" on a Reds board... but I need to question this logic.

Isn't it possible - probable, even - that Carp would downplay his antics in an interview with a friendly so as not to look like he's whining?

You say someone on here is not looking at the whole picture... but couldn't the same be said in return?

I always ask myself... if that guy was on my team, would I defend him or even enjoy his antics? But Carp is just one guy (Hines Ward is the other) I can not say that about. This is the same guy that makes no attempt to hide his displeasure with his defense behind him or how long they take to set up... all the way to the point of taking a guy barely into the dugout tunnel and balling him out about it.

Sorry... you say we should take Carp's side into consideration. I say we've learned enough about him to say he doesn't get the usual grain of salt consideration.

kaldaniels
08-03-2011, 11:25 AM
A verbatim quote from Yadi as seen in the video...

"I was talking to him. He was pushing at me."

Bush.

RedsManRick
08-03-2011, 11:43 AM
I just saw the video. Clearly Yadi was the one who instigated contact. But I don't see any spitting in there. When people yell, sometimes a little spittle flies out. That happens all the time and it appears that's what the ump was reacting to. That's VERY different that what Robbie Alomar did, purposefully gathering and expelling a wad of spit at the guy.

Blitz Dorsey
08-03-2011, 11:44 AM
LaRussa is getting roasted right now on ESPN Radio. It's like the nation is finally realizing what we knew all along. (And while he shouldn't have said it, Brandon Phillips was spot on in his "description" of the Cardinals last year.)

I(heart)Freel
08-03-2011, 11:45 AM
Might I remind everyone...

"We're going to hit you in the (expletive) head, Cordero."

Slyder
08-03-2011, 12:00 PM
Might I remind everyone...

"We're going to hit you in the (expletive) head, Cordero."

I still say that next time St Louis comes to town and either idiot catcher comes up to bat have Cordero buzz em (note not hit them) walk over to the Cards dugout and say "THAT is a purpose pitch you idiots".

CySeymour
08-03-2011, 12:06 PM
I always remember Nuxie always saying he believed Dave Stewart threw at Billy Hatcher in the '90 World Series...hmmm, I wonder who Stewert could have gotten the idea from?

OnBaseMachine
08-03-2011, 12:26 PM
Last night was a very good night for Brandon Philips.

I would honestly be embarrassed to root for the Cardinals. I would be even more embarrassed to actually defend that display last night.

Agreed.

You couldn't pay me enough money to root for those whiney little babies from St. Louis. I don't care if their win did benefit the Reds last night, I was rooting for the Brewers and will do so today as well. Oh, and Yadier Molina is a thug. He's right there with Carpenter as my least favorite player in all of sports.

Nasty_Boy
08-03-2011, 12:34 PM
he was sending a message because it was inside near Pujols head and hands, which happened yesterday as well.

Tell Albert to back off the plate... If you are going to have your hands out over the plate, you've got to expect to get hit when pitchers are trying to get inside. It's part of the risk reward you except as a hitter. If you're going to crowd the plate then you better plan on a ball getting a piece of you from time to time... Bonds was over the plate and wore body armour, Bagwell was hit many times in the hands due to were he stood in the box. I don't believe the Brewers were throwing at him... But as an opposing manager, if your choices are throwing inside to keep Albert in the park and possibly hitting him or throwing out over the plate and letting him get his arms extended... Well I know what I'm telling my pitchers.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 12:42 PM
Tell Albert to back off the plate... If you are going to have your hands out over the plate, you've got to expect to get hit when pitchers are trying to get inside. It's part of the risk reward you except as a hitter. If you're going to crowd the plate then you better plan on a ball getting a piece of you from time to time... Bonds was over the plate and wore body armour, Bagwell was hit many times in the hands due to were he stood in the box. I don't believe the Brewers were throwing at him... But as an opposing manager, if your choices are throwing inside to keep Albert in the park and possibly hitting him or throwing out over the plate and letting him get his arms extended... Well I know what I'm telling my pitchers.

Agreed.

And I think Larussa knows all of this. His whole intent in complaining, and in over-retaliating, is that he is trying to make opposing managers, pitchers, and catchers think twice about pitching Albert inside. In essence, he is saying 'If you pitch Albert inside, we will hurt your players.' This kind of thug-like behavior needs to be stopped. Larussa won't change, and opponenets should take this as an admission that pitching Albert hard inside is EXACTLY what should be done every time.

PuffyPig
08-03-2011, 12:54 PM
It should also be noted that when Cardinals pitchers are first associated with TLR, one of the first rules he puts out there .....

I believe if you want to play for Larussa you must observe one rule: never, ever do anything out of the ordinary that might determine the outcome of the game...that's solely for him to do.

Larkin Fan
08-03-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't see how anyone can defend the Cards' actions last night. That's just incomprehensible.

GoReds
08-03-2011, 01:08 PM
Did anyone mention to Tony that his team actually won the game? There is a pennant race going on, btw.

It would be interesting to find out what the Cardinal's record is in games in which Pujols is HBP.

signalhome
08-03-2011, 01:27 PM
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/8/3/2341240/yadis-being-pushed-by-the-umpire

"Yadi's being pushed by the umpire..."

:laugh:

Caveman Techie
08-03-2011, 01:37 PM
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/8/3/2341240/yadis-being-pushed-by-the-umpire

"Yadi's being pushed by the umpire..."

:laugh:

I had to replay that just to make sure I heard it right. Again, it goes to show the bias people will have when their team is involved.

smith288
08-03-2011, 01:43 PM
Brewers announcers were funny. Shows the absolute lack of respect other teams have for the Cards at the current moment.

Phillips continues to be proved right.

CarolinaRedleg
08-03-2011, 01:49 PM
ESPN's Schoenfield weighs in with a gem


Molina's spittle may have been unintentional, but his outburst was unprofessional and considering it happened in the 10th inning of a crucial game for his club, an alarming brain lock and lack of discipline for a veteran player.

As for the Cardinals going after Braun, it's typical La Russa. His guy gets hit -- La Russa even said he thought it was unintentional -- so he then intentionally hits your guy. This stuff seems to happen much more often with the Cardinals, doesn't it? I can't fault La Russa for wanting to protect his star, but his eye-for-an-eye behavior isn't going to stop teams from pitching inside to Pujols. La Russa knows that's part of the game, and his insistence on retaliation has become a tiresome and dangerous tactic.

But it makes for interesting baseball, issues to debate, and yet another club and fan base that finds the Cardinals rather loathsome. (Cincinnati welcomes you to the club, Milwaukee.)

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/14530/cardinals-brewers-rivalry-suddenly-hotter

RichRed
08-03-2011, 01:50 PM
Kinda wish we had a Brewers fan on here.

Today, we are all Brewers fans.

traderumor
08-03-2011, 01:50 PM
Motte did not pitch near Braun's head. That is the issue. TLR doesn't even have a problem with pitching inside. Its the head and hand area that he has a problem with. Pujols was almost hit in the head tonight and when he moved out of the way it hit his hand. Think about it, if Votto was almost hit in the head by a ball, don't you think Baker would send a message to the other side the next inning?

Again, the ball that Motte threw was inside in the midsection of Braun and there was no danger of that ball breaking his hands or hitting him in the head.

It should also be noted that when Cardinals pitchers are first associated with TLR, one of the first rules he puts out there to his pitchers is never intentionally pitch toward a guys head. I have heard that TLR has this policy from several different pitchers and ex-pitchers that pitched under TLR.Again, and again, and again, LaRussa is not the Godfather of baseball, getting to determine what is "etiquette" and then enforce it with force himself. So, honestly, his policies and procedures manual that you are paraphrasing has no authority.....NONE!!!!

westofyou
08-03-2011, 01:56 PM
Again, and again, and again, LaRussa is not the Godfather of baseball, getting to determine what is "etiquette" and then enforce it with force himself. So, honestly, his policies and procedures manual that you are paraphrasing has no authority.....NONE!!!!

Tony pulled the same stuff as the A's manager, stresses amazement and fear for his players (while deriding the other team as dangerous and small minded) meanwhile taking the complete opposite stance when his hurlers have the ball.

No manager ever ran faster out of the dugout to scream headhunter, nor has any manager stormed out faster to defend his pitcher against the same accusations. His lawyerish explanations concerning his actions in his little passion plays over the years are sour grapes and chest thumping nonsense 99% of the time and if anything just tarnish the mans image as a great manager in the history of the game.

Larkin Fan
08-03-2011, 02:08 PM
Think about it, if Votto was almost hit in the head by a ball, don't you think Baker would send a message to the other side the next inning?

Give me a break. Your analogy holds no water. There have been several times this season that balls have come near Votto's head during an at-bat and the Reds haven't retaliated once, nor should they have. But feel free to keep trying to justify the ridiculous actions of LaRussa and company.

CTA513
08-03-2011, 02:14 PM
Reds fans love them some Cardinals

westofyou
08-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Reds fans love them some Cardinals

They're like JTM, you know it ain't as good as they keep telling you it is.

OldXOhio
08-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Pujols is to this past decade as what Bagwell was to the 90s. There's a reason he's gotten plunked around the hands a few times.

OUReds
08-03-2011, 02:38 PM
What I enjoy is LaRussa's contention that he would have "only" tried to hit Braun (oops, I mean "send a message") twice.

I mean, he ducked out of the way of the first pitch, so we tried to plunk him again, but the second pitch, had he ducked out of the way of THAT one, that would have been it. No way I would have tried to hit him a THIRD time. Not us.

traderumor
08-03-2011, 02:59 PM
Tony pulled the same stuff as the A's manager, stresses amazement and fear for his players (while deriding the other team as dangerous and small minded) meanwhile taking the complete opposite stance when his hurlers have the ball.

No manager ever ran faster out of the dugout to scream headhunter, nor has any manager stormed out faster to defend his pitcher against the same accusations. His lawyerish explanations concerning his actions in his little passion plays over the years are sour grapes and chest thumping nonsense 99% of the time and if anything just tarnish the mans image as a great manager in the history of the game.Narcissism 101 right there.

Sea Ray
08-03-2011, 03:10 PM
I don't see how anyone can defend the Cards' actions last night. That's just incomprehensible.

Yes but it was very predictable. As soon as I heard Pujols got hit, I knew what was coming next as I watched on Sportscenter

Larkin Fan
08-03-2011, 03:25 PM
Yes but it was very predictable. As soon as I heard Pujols got hit, I knew what was coming next as I watched on Sportscenter

Oh, I agree it was predictable. Based on their reaction when Cordero hit Pujols a few months ago, they have a history of leaping to absurd conclusion that teams are intentionally throwing at batters at that absolute worst times possible.

cincrazy
08-03-2011, 03:39 PM
I can't stand LaRussa or this current Cardinals squad. But I love it, and I hope they stay relevant. I don't know about all of you, but I'm enjoying the divisional action a hell of a lot more NOW than I was a few years ago. I can't stand them, but I enjoy not being able to stand them. Makes the summer a lot more fun. Keep up the antics Tony!

Always Red
08-03-2011, 03:51 PM
I can't stand LaRussa or this current Cardinals squad. But I love it, and I hope they stay relevant. I don't know about all of you, but I'm enjoying the divisional action a hell of a lot more NOW than I was a few years ago. I can't stand them, but I enjoy not being able to stand them. Makes the summer a lot more fun. Keep up the antics Tony!

Internet rumors have TLR moving back to the ChiSox after this year, and working for his friend Reinsdorf in some capacity, if not on the field. If so, things will go back to normal between the Cards and the rest of the NL Central, and the drama unfold anew in Chicago.

The Cardinals have always been a very good baseball organization, and I don't expect that will change when TLR moves on.

and I fully agree- I love watching them whine. Really, I laugh every time.

Orenda
08-03-2011, 04:24 PM
Albert Pujols so far this series: 1-12, 0bb, 3k's. Wherever the Brewers are pitching Pujols, they should stay right there.

Caveman Techie
08-03-2011, 04:25 PM
Internet rumors have TLR moving back to the ChiSox after this year, and working for his friend Reinsdorf in some capacity, if not on the field. If so, things will go back to normal between the Cards and the rest of the NL Central, and the drama unfold anew in Chicago.

The Cardinals have always been a very good baseball organization, and I don't expect that will change when TLR moves on.

and I fully agree- I love watching them whine. Really, I laugh every time.

This* I actually used to have a soft spot in my heart for the Cardinals back before the days of the Central division. I just can't stand Larussa and Carpenter. I honestly don't know which one is worse out of those two. I never followed Carp before he became a Cardnial, was he always this whinny or did he pick it up from TLR?

oneupper
08-03-2011, 04:45 PM
Now its the fans!


“It’s going way too far when they start cursing your family and the funniest one, the guy’s yelling, `I hope you get shingles again,”’ La Russa said Wednesday. “That’s just stupid. But when you watch and you ignore our guy get drilled when the other guy gets a little stinger, it’s irritating.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ags22vSd5EmmQAg.z_5KMEoRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-larussainsults

traderumor
08-03-2011, 04:53 PM
Now its the fans!




http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ags22vSd5EmmQAg.z_5KMEoRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-larussainsultsMr. Senthitive he is. Good thing it didn't happen in Philly!

traderumor
08-03-2011, 04:59 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85506

And I haven't seen this come up. This is the second time the insenthitive fans in Milwaukee have gotten the best of the Cards. Had almost forgotten this one :)

camisadelgolf
08-03-2011, 05:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Yl8Un.jpg

OnBaseMachine
08-03-2011, 05:26 PM
That thug Molina has allowed two runs to score today because of a passed ball and a throwing error.

medford
08-03-2011, 05:28 PM
Now its the fans!




http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ags22vSd5EmmQAg.z_5KMEoRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-larussainsults

I heard LaRussa complained to the cops about waking him up from his nap at the stop sign. Does it surprise anyone that he's complaining about the fans?

Redsfan320
08-03-2011, 05:32 PM
Now its the fans!




http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ags22vSd5EmmQAg.z_5KMEoRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-larussainsults

The broadcasters were mentioned in that article as well. Brewers broadcaster might never call TLR bush league... but I sure well.

320

thatcoolguy_22
08-03-2011, 05:44 PM
Anyone else happy to see Edwin Jackson's line today? as I type this 6.2 IP 14H 7ER and 4 HR :D

Good move moving Rasmus, should benefit the reds for years.

Reds Freak
08-03-2011, 05:46 PM
Anyone else happy to see Edwin Jackson's line today? as I type this 6.2 IP 14H 7ER and 4 HR :D

Good move moving Rasmus, should benefit the reds for years.

Why on earth has Jackson been in that long? I about fell off my chair when I just looked at the box score. {Insert favorite LaRussa drinking joke here}...

CTA513
08-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Why on earth has Jackson been in that long? I about fell off my chair when I just looked at the box score. {Insert favorite LaRussa drinking joke here}...

Dusty told Tony to leave him in

LvJ
08-03-2011, 05:54 PM
14 Hits, 10 Runs, 4 HR. That'll do pig, that'll do.

RichRed
08-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Why on earth has Jackson been in that long? I about fell off my chair when I just looked at the box score. {Insert favorite LaRussa drinking joke here}...

Left him in for his bat obviously (2 for 3 today).

8 ER in 7 IP and 118 pitches - that's beautiful.

Corey Patterson is 2 for 3 batting 8th. Time to promote him to leadoff where he belongs!

Hoosier Red
08-03-2011, 06:06 PM
This* I actually used to have a soft spot in my heart for the Cardinals back before the days of the Central division. I just can't stand Larussa and Carpenter. I honestly don't know which one is worse out of those two. I never followed Carp before he became a Cardnial, was he always this whinny or did he pick it up from TLR?

I was curious about that as well. One thing I'll be interested in is if Carpenter continues to act as he does, and fails to pitch well, how well his teammates will take it.

If his teammates had an issue with his act before, what would they do, aside from Pujols, no one was perfoming at as high of a level as he was.

Now that there's a littly luster off the pitching, do his teammates stand up to him and tell him where he can shove it?

fearofpopvol1
08-03-2011, 06:16 PM
Anyone have the audio of the Brewers telecast after a pitch was thrown at Braun? I heard it was great and can't find it.

_Sir_Charles_
08-03-2011, 06:48 PM
Tony is such a freakin' liar.

First he says nothing was intentional, it was just inside. Then he said they were trying to throw a message. Then he said no it was just inside. Then after the reporter mentioned it looked intention, he starts going off on the Brewers for throwing inside.

He was changing his story so many times in that interview I can't keep it straight. Which is it Tony... were you just throwing inside, were you sending a message or were you upset they were throwing in on Pujols? LOL

Okay, I don't get that at all from his comments. It sounds to me like his idea of sending a message is to simply throw inside and brush the guy back. But at the waist or lower. He seems to take offense to the inside brushback pitch that is chest high and above. And I'd have to agree with him. You can control the inside part of the plate without going up and in. I also agree that neither pitcher intended on hitting either batter. But it was intentional to go inside to both hitters.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 07:00 PM
I also agree that neither pitcher intended on hitting either batter. But it was intentional to go inside to both hitters.


Did you see Braun get hit? It was the most intentional hitting of a batter I have seen in ages. First he threw a pitch right at Braun, that Braun avoided somehow. Then the very next pitch, he nailed him in the middle of the back. Absolutely, positively on purpose. No doubt.

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Anyone have the audio of the Brewers telecast after a pitch was thrown at Braun? I heard it was great and can't find it.

I don't have a link to the audio, but i paused it on TV last night, and transcribed it myself. This is what i said earlier in this thread:

This was the exact quote by the Brewers TV guy. He NAILED it.

"The Cardinals fashion themselves as the keepers of baseball etiquette....That was uncalled for. It's just bush league, that's what it is. Bush league. ....Once again, they're nothing if not predictable, complain about everything, but that's Cardinal's baseball."

_Sir_Charles_
08-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Did you see Braun get hit? It was the most intentional hitting of a batter I have seen in ages. First he threw a pitch right at Braun, that Braun avoided somehow. Then the very next pitch, he nailed him in the middle of the back. Absolutely, positively on purpose. No doubt.

I only saw 1 pitch from the highlights. If he did it twice, why wasn't the pitcher ejected?

mbgrayson
08-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I only saw 1 pitch from the highlights. If he did it twice, why wasn't the pitcher ejected?

Good question. He should have been ejected. Warnings were issued by the ump at that point, but I guess since they hadn't been issued before, the ump decided not to eject. Larussa did take him out of the game right after that.... But there is NO doubt that there were two pitches thrown at Braun, I saw it live, and i saw it on replay several times.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Now its the fans!




http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ags22vSd5EmmQAg.z_5KMEoRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-larussainsults

And now it's the hotel room service!!! You honestly cannot make this stuff up.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/article_8a36384e-bd37-11e0-b6aa-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1U09Yjf68

Dave Duncan this morning, regarding Jaime Garcia's road woes:

"He seems to get on the road and if he orders room service and they're 30 minutes late, it gets him all upset," Duncan told the radio show this morning.

One thing about the Cardinals, it's never, ever, ever, EVER their fault.

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 08:29 PM
Wow this thread got blown up over night. I don't have the time to go over everyone's posts.

I would just like to add that this is the perfect example of why I would much rather hang out here than in some of the Cardinals boards. This is a title of a thread that just had me laughing.

"Albert is having a down year on purpose"

This is the level of discussion you get on some of those boards. I would much rather take the good nature ribbing I get here than subjugate myself to that idiocy.

Always Red
08-03-2011, 08:31 PM
And now it's the hotel room service!!! You honestly cannot make this stuff up.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/article_8a36384e-bd37-11e0-b6aa-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1U09Yjf68

Dave Duncan this morning, regarding Jaime Garcia's road woes:

"He seems to get on the road and if he orders room service and they're 30 minutes late, it gets him all upset," Duncan told the radio show this morning.

Maybe being around TLR all the time puts everybody on edge? :dunno:

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 08:32 PM
And now it's the hotel room service!!! You honestly cannot make this stuff up.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/article_8a36384e-bd37-11e0-b6aa-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1U09Yjf68

Dave Duncan this morning, regarding Jaime Garcia's road woes:

"He seems to get on the road and if he orders room service and they're 30 minutes late, it gets him all upset," Duncan told the radio show this morning.

One thing about the Cardinals, it's never, ever, ever, EVER their fault.


I think Duncan's point was that Garcia lets too many things that are out of his control get to him. If you watch him pitch, if someone gets on base due to an error or things he can't control, he kind of loses it. You all have wondered about Garcia and his unearned run issue in the past. The whole room service thing he brought up was just one example of many. It happens with a lot of young pitchers.

Eric_the_Red
08-03-2011, 09:12 PM
More love for TLR:

http://www.thebrewersbar.com/2011-articles/august/a-short-history-of-tony-la-russas-complaints.html

OnBaseMachine
08-03-2011, 09:23 PM
I missed it, but apparently Ryan Ludwick was talking about the Cardinals on the Pirates pregame show...said something along the lines of he didn't realize just how hated the Cardinals are throughout baseball until he left the organization.

Griffey012
08-03-2011, 09:42 PM
I think Duncan's point was that Garcia lets too many things that are out of his control get to him. If you watch him pitch, if someone gets on base due to an error or things he can't control, he kind of loses it. You all have wondered about Garcia and his unearned run issue in the past. The whole room service thing he brought up was just one example of many. It happens with a lot of young pitchers.

Pretty sure that is what he meant as well...but it is just way to much fun to run with the quote

Always Red
08-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Pretty sure that is what he meant as well...but it is just way to much fun to run with the quote

Exactly.

We get it Mike, and nothing personal, but we're not buying it. :D

MikeThierry
08-03-2011, 10:52 PM
Exactly.

We get it Mike, and nothing personal, but we're not buying it. :D

Well I think Duncan is kind of at his wits end with Garcia because his home/road splits are night and day. There is really no explanation why he suddenly loses control on the road. I think a lot of it does have to do with psychology.

Slyder
08-03-2011, 11:33 PM
Well I think Duncan is kind of at his wits end with Garcia because his home/road splits are night and day. There is really no explanation why he suddenly loses control on the road. I think a lot of it does have to do with psychology.

Maybe theyre dimming the lights at home for him so its not so bright :lol:

traderumor
08-03-2011, 11:41 PM
I think Duncan's point was that Garcia lets too many things that are out of his control get to him. If you watch him pitch, if someone gets on base due to an error or things he can't control, he kind of loses it. You all have wondered about Garcia and his unearned run issue in the past. The whole room service thing he brought up was just one example of many. It happens with a lot of young pitchers.I think the point is that your team needs some therapy. They seem to be living a bit outside of reality.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-04-2011, 02:02 AM
In case TLR and the Cardinals are running out of things to complain about, here are a few suggestions throughout the NL:

Florida - constant threat of hurricanes in latter half of summer; signs in English and Spanish; south Fla. mosquitoes
Atlanta - insensitive Native American mascot
Philadelphia - Italian mob presence in south Philly
New York Mets - Citi Field too far from Manhatten hotels
Washington - constant threat of terrorism in nation's capital

Chicago - locker rooms in Wrigley too small; not enough parking for visiting Cards fans; too many people not paying attention to game
Cincinnati - balls too slick, mound too short, fences too close, fireworks too loud, seats too red, too hard to spell
Milwaukee - Sausage race offensive to vegetarians
Houston - President Bush and Barbara in first row offensive to Democrats
Pittsburgh - Iron City beer offensive to beer drinkers

Los Angeles - Constant smog in eyes and throat makes Cincy fireworks smoke seem quaint; dangerous neighborhood
San Diego - Fences too far; proximity to Mexican border violence
San Francisco - Earthquake prone; Bonds robbed McGwire of single-season HR record
Colorado - mound too high; bullpens too pretty; hard to breath at elevation; heavy turbulence taking off/landing at DIA

FlightRick
08-04-2011, 03:01 AM
I can't believe I'm just now getting around to seeing the full clip of LaRussa's interview from last night, but that was tremendously satisfying in a schadenfreude sort of way. It couldn't have happened to a nicer giant self-deluded/self-contradicting weenis.

It kinda felt like the final scene of "A Few Good Men." Except I felt worse for Jack after he was fed enough rope to hang himself than I did for Tony. And there was no Kevin Bacon to quietly lead LaRussa away in shame....


Rick

Homer Bailey
08-04-2011, 10:32 AM
In case TLR and the Cardinals are running out of things to complain about, here are a few suggestions throughout the NL:

Florida - constant threat of hurricanes in latter half of summer; signs in English and Spanish; south Fla. mosquitoes
Atlanta - insensitive Native American mascot
Philadelphia - Italian mob presence in south Philly
New York Mets - Citi Field too far from Manhatten hotels
Washington - constant threat of terrorism in nation's capital

Chicago - locker rooms in Wrigley too small; not enough parking for visiting Cards fans; too many people not paying attention to game
Cincinnati - balls too slick, mound too short, fences too close, fireworks too loud, seats too red, too hard to spell
Milwaukee - Sausage race offensive to vegetarians
Houston - President Bush and Barbara in first row offensive to Democrats
Pittsburgh - Iron City beer offensive to beer drinkers

Los Angeles - Constant smog in eyes and throat makes Cincy fireworks smoke seem quaint; dangerous neighborhood
San Diego - Fences too far; proximity to Mexican border violence
San Francisco - Earthquake prone; Bonds robbed McGwire of single-season HR record
Colorado - mound too high; bullpens too pretty; hard to breath at elevation; heavy turbulence taking off/landing at DIA

This is awesome.

Chip R
08-04-2011, 11:28 AM
In case TLR and the Cardinals are running out of things to complain about, here are a few suggestions throughout the NL:

Florida - constant threat of hurricanes in latter half of summer; signs in English and Spanish; south Fla. mosquitoes
Atlanta - insensitive Native American mascot
Philadelphia - Italian mob presence in south Philly
New York Mets - Citi Field too far from Manhatten hotels
Washington - constant threat of terrorism in nation's capital

Chicago - locker rooms in Wrigley too small; not enough parking for visiting Cards fans; too many people not paying attention to game
Cincinnati - balls too slick, mound too short, fences too close, fireworks too loud, seats too red, too hard to spell
Milwaukee - Sausage race offensive to vegetarians
Houston - President Bush and Barbara in first row offensive to Democrats
Pittsburgh - Iron City beer offensive to beer drinkers

Los Angeles - Constant smog in eyes and throat makes Cincy fireworks smoke seem quaint; dangerous neighborhood
San Diego - Fences too far; proximity to Mexican border violence
San Francisco - Earthquake prone; Bonds robbed McGwire of single-season HR record
Colorado - mound too high; bullpens too pretty; hard to breath at elevation; heavy turbulence taking off/landing at DIA

757690
08-04-2011, 05:31 PM
5 game suspension for Molina

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110804&content_id=22747282&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

OldXOhio
08-04-2011, 05:58 PM
In case TLR and the Cardinals are running out of things to complain about, here are a few suggestions throughout the NL:

Florida - constant threat of hurricanes in latter half of summer; signs in English and Spanish; south Fla. mosquitoes
Atlanta - insensitive Native American mascot
Philadelphia - Italian mob presence in south Philly
New York Mets - Citi Field too far from Manhatten hotels
Washington - constant threat of terrorism in nation's capital

Chicago - locker rooms in Wrigley too small; not enough parking for visiting Cards fans; too many people not paying attention to game
Cincinnati - balls too slick, mound too short, fences too close, fireworks too loud, seats too red, too hard to spell
Milwaukee - Sausage race offensive to vegetarians
Houston - President Bush and Barbara in first row offensive to Democrats
Pittsburgh - Iron City beer offensive to beer drinkers

Los Angeles - Constant smog in eyes and throat makes Cincy fireworks smoke seem quaint; dangerous neighborhood
San Diego - Fences too far; proximity to Mexican border violence
San Francisco - Earthquake prone; Bonds robbed McGwire of single-season HR record
Colorado - mound too high; bullpens too pretty; hard to breath at elevation; heavy turbulence taking off/landing at DIA

Well done, I especially liked the Milwaukee offensive. You might also add "it's always something when we come here" to the Cincinnati byline.

You know, it would do Cardinal nation well if you put together an AL list of complaints as well. After all this is the interleague era and there's got to be a whole list of things they do in the junior circuit that irk TLR, Hrabosky and Chris Carpentar's kid.

PuffyPig
08-04-2011, 06:54 PM
I think Duncan's point was that Garcia lets too many things that are out of his control get to him. If you watch him pitch, if someone gets on base due to an error or things he can't control, he kind of loses it.


Then he should run, not walk, out of St. Louis.

Because those misplays behind him aren't going to stop anytime soon.

Not as long as Larussa puts players in the wrong postion.

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 07:02 PM
Then he should run, not walk, out of St. Louis.

Because those misplays behind him aren't going to stop anytime soon.

Not as long as Larussa puts players in the wrong postion.

TLR's last year will be next year when he passes up John McGraw on the wins list. After that you will have to put up with Joe Maddon.

westofyou
08-04-2011, 07:04 PM
TLR's last year will be next year when he passes up John McGraw on the wins list. After that you will have to put up with Joe Maddon.

Really?

It's just that easy eh?

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Really?

It's just that easy eh?

Yep, bank on it. Joe Maddon was (and still is) a Cards fans since he was like 10 and has hinted that he would love to manage the Cardinals one day. Oddly enough, he is a fan of the Billikens and Blues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110629&content_id=21157256&notebook_id=21157258&vkey=notebook_tb&c_id=tb

TLR wants to stay on, though he denies it, to pass John McGraws win record. I truely think that he will call it quits after that.

westofyou
08-04-2011, 07:17 PM
Yep, bank on it. Joe Maddon was (and still is) a Cards fans since he was like 10 and has hinted that he would love to manage the Cardinals one day. Oddly enough, he is a fan of the Billikens and Blues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110629&content_id=21157256&notebook_id=21157258&vkey=notebook_tb&c_id=tb

TLR wants to stay on, though he denies it, to pass John McGraws win record. I truely think that he will call it quits after that.

He's from PA. maybe he'll also be the next Penn State coach too?

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 07:21 PM
He's from PA. maybe he'll also be the next Penn State coach too?

I'm just saying that if I'm hedging my bets on who is going to be the next Cardinals manager, its going to be Joe Maddon. They could go outside the box and hire some unknown guy from the minor league system but the guy who replaces TLR is going to need to have some "juice" in my opinion. Its going to be a highly sought after managerial job as well so there might be some other big named candidates in there.

PuffyPig
08-04-2011, 08:11 PM
..... but the guy who replaces TLR is going to need to have some "juice" in my opinion.

Two possible answers to that set up......

(1) I agree, replace one drunk with another.....

(2) I agree, he'll need to keep "juicing" up Pujols as he reaches 40 in a few years.

traderumor
08-04-2011, 08:12 PM
I'm just saying that if I'm hedging my bets on who is going to be the next Cardinals manager, its going to be Joe Maddon. They could go outside the box and hire some unknown guy from the minor league system but the guy who replaces TLR is going to need to have some "juice" in my opinion. Its going to be a highly sought after managerial job as well so there might be some other big named candidates in there.All major league managerial jobs are highly sought after. There's only 30 of them, and if a guy doesn't think he's the answer, then he has no chance.

Is this the same thinking, that has been proven wrong, that players are just falling all over themselves and taking lesser contracts to play in "baseball city?" Managers too, huh?

GoReds
08-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Looks like Molina is suffering some of that "roid rage"

"According to Craig Mish of SiriusXM, catchers Yadier Molina and Gerald Laird got into an “ugly” fight on Wednesday night after arriving in south Florida for a four-game series against the Marlins."

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/report-yadier-molina-gerald-laird-fought-last-night/

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 09:33 PM
All major league managerial jobs are highly sought after. There's only 30 of them, and if a guy doesn't think he's the answer, then he has no chance.

So you think a managerial job in Oakland is as desirable as the job in St. Louis? You would be kidding yourself if you think it is on the same level. Managers don't leave their teams to pursue a job in Oakland or even Pittsburgh. There would be managers from other ball clubs that would leave in an instant if they can go to a place that gets 3.5 million fans a year, gets financial support from management, management willing to do anything to put a winning team on the field, and constantly in the playoff picture. It may sound pompous but there are few places in baseball that are desirable for players and managers to go. Boston, Yankees, and now Philly would be considered prime destinations. St. Louis has for at least 50-60 years have been one of those places. You may hate the Cardinals but you can't deny those factors.


By the way, David Freese might be the most unluckiest players in baseball. Dude gets hit in the head by a ball. Another injury due to bad luck rather than being injury prone. Hope he is ok.

OnBaseMachine
08-04-2011, 09:41 PM
Looks like Molina is suffering some of that "roid rage"

"According to Craig Mish of SiriusXM, catchers Yadier Molina and Gerald Laird got into an “ugly” fight on Wednesday night after arriving in south Florida for a four-game series against the Marlins."

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/report-yadier-molina-gerald-laird-fought-last-night/

But Molina is such a great guy! All the Cardinals fans say so!

OnBaseMachine
08-04-2011, 09:42 PM
Really?

It's just that easy eh?

You didn't hear? The St. Louis Cardinals are God's gift to the earth.

westofyou
08-04-2011, 10:15 PM
Luck is a skillset, especially if it means staying healthy.

Just ask Cal.

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 10:27 PM
Luck is a skillset, especially if it means staying healthy.

Just ask Cal.


I guess with David Freese it is, lol. Dude gets in a car wreck and screws up his ankles. They weren't fully healed and he tweeked them a bit last year. During rehab, he drops a weight on his foot and out for the rest of the year. This year, he gets hit on the hand by a pitch and is out for two months with a broken hand. Now he gets hit in the head by a pitch and has a mild concussion with a contusion. I have a feeling he is going to be ran over by a bus sometime soon.

WVRed
08-04-2011, 10:28 PM
I'm just saying that if I'm hedging my bets on who is going to be the next Cardinals manager, its going to be Joe Maddon. They could go outside the box and hire some unknown guy from the minor league system but the guy who replaces TLR is going to need to have some "juice" in my opinion. Its going to be a highly sought after managerial job as well so there might be some other big named candidates in there.

I always thought Tony LaDoubleday was keeping the seat warm for Jose Oquendo.

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 10:32 PM
I always thought Tony LaDoubleday was keeping the seat warm for Jose Oquendo.

I think Cards fans want Oquendo but I have a feeling they are going to go with someone with a lot of managerial experience. Oquendo I think would be a good manager but he might be best served to start somewhere with a young team where success isn't needed immediately. There might be tons of pressure on the next manager following TLR. Again, I know you guys hate him here and that's fine. However from a pure baseball standpoint, it is hard to followup a manager with that much success plus in a situation where the emphasis is to win a division every single year instead of going into rebuild mode.

WVRed
08-04-2011, 10:37 PM
I think Cards fans want Oquendo but I have a feeling they are going to go with someone with a lot of managerial experience. Oquendo I think would be a good manager but he might be best served to start somewhere with a young team where success isn't needed immediately. There might be tons of pressure on the next manager following TLR. Again, I know you guys hate him here and that's fine. However from a pure baseball standpoint, it is hard to followup a manager with that much success plus in a situation where the emphasis is to win a division every single year instead of going into rebuild mode.

I think it could be done. Joe Torre did it with Don Mattingly in LA, so its definitely possible in St Louis.

PuffyPig
08-04-2011, 10:39 PM
So you think a managerial job in Oakland is as desirable as the job in St. Louis? You would be kidding yourself if you think it is on the same level.

He didn't say that.

He said all managerial jobs were sought after.

He made no comment on ranking desriability.

MikeThierry
08-04-2011, 10:42 PM
Puffy, I probably should have included the whole quote. This was added in there too:


Is this the same thinking, that has been proven wrong, that players are just falling all over themselves and taking lesser contracts to play in "baseball city?" Managers too, huh?

I was kind of responding to that as well.

No question that that all managerial jobs are sought after. I'm just saying that there are more desirable places than others and there would be situations where managers from other teams would leave their current position to go to a more desirable place.

reds44
08-04-2011, 11:03 PM
Looks like Molina is suffering some of that "roid rage"

"According to Craig Mish of SiriusXM, catchers Yadier Molina and Gerald Laird got into an “ugly” fight on Wednesday night after arriving in south Florida for a four-game series against the Marlins."

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/report-yadier-molina-gerald-laird-fought-last-night/
Completely out of Molina's character.

Chip R
08-04-2011, 11:52 PM
Looks like Molina is suffering some of that "roid rage"

"According to Craig Mish of SiriusXM, catchers Yadier Molina and Gerald Laird got into an “ugly” fight on Wednesday night after arriving in south Florida for a four-game series against the Marlins."

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/04/report-yadier-molina-gerald-laird-fought-last-night/

Geez. Who to root for in that fight?

REDblooded
08-05-2011, 12:25 AM
Geez. Who to root for in that fight?


Grim Reaper?

Spitball
08-05-2011, 12:45 AM
Geez. Who to root for in that fight?

Uh...Laird, or whoever else was involved...except players named Carpenter or...no, that's it.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-05-2011, 02:58 AM
Yep, bank on it. Joe Maddon was (and still is) a Cards fans since he was like 10 and has hinted that he would love to manage the Cardinals one day. Oddly enough, he is a fan of the Billikens and Blues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110629&content_id=21157256&notebook_id=21157258&vkey=notebook_tb&c_id=tb

TLR wants to stay on, though he denies it, to pass John McGraws win record. I truely think that he will call it quits after that.

Kevin Youkilis is an admitted Reds fan. Can we just plug him in at third next year?

thatcoolguy_22
08-05-2011, 03:40 AM
Kevin Youkilis is an admitted Reds fan. Can we just plug him in at third next year?

who's got a perfect idea...

http://www.officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/Peter-Griffin-psd30524.png

you, that's who.




(now to convince the red sox and youk)

Ron Madden
08-05-2011, 06:10 AM
So you think a managerial job in Oakland is as desirable as the job in St. Louis? You would be kidding yourself if you think it is on the same level. Managers don't leave their teams to pursue a job in Oakland or even Pittsburgh. There would be managers from other ball clubs that would leave in an instant if they can go to a place that gets 3.5 million fans a year, gets financial support from management, management willing to do anything to put a winning team on the field, and constantly in the playoff picture. It may sound pompous but there are few places in baseball that are desirable for players and managers to go. Boston, Yankees, and now Philly would be considered prime destinations. St. Louis has for at least 50-60 years have been one of those places. You may hate the Cardinals but you can't deny those factors.


By the way, David Freese might be the most unluckiest players in baseball. Dude gets hit in the head by a ball. Another injury due to bad luck rather than being injury prone. Hope he is ok.

I believe there is a bunch of truth in this statement.

PuffyPig
08-05-2011, 09:03 AM
There would be managers from other ball clubs that would leave in an instant if they can go to a place that gets 3.5 million fans a year.....


Since when is gettting 3.5M fans once in the franchise's existence become a place "that gets 3.5 million fans a year"?

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Since when is gettting 3.5M fans once in the franchise's existence become a place "that gets 3.5 million fans a year"?

How dare you question great, all-powerful and ever-knowing St. Louis, the Oz, Mecca, Vatican and holy grail of baseball all rolled into one?

WVRed
08-05-2011, 02:07 PM
Grim Reaper?

http://img1.tvloop.com/img/showpics/3a/8f/l3480ec8e0000_1_12964.jpg

Orenda
08-05-2011, 09:31 PM
*

traderumor
08-05-2011, 10:31 PM
So you think a managerial job in Oakland is as desirable as the job in St. Louis? You would be kidding yourself if you think it is on the same level. Managers don't leave their teams to pursue a job in Oakland or even Pittsburgh. There would be managers from other ball clubs that would leave in an instant if they can go to a place that gets 3.5 million fans a year, gets financial support from management, management willing to do anything to put a winning team on the field, and constantly in the playoff picture. It may sound pompous but there are few places in baseball that are desirable for players and managers to go. Boston, Yankees, and now Philly would be considered prime destinations. St. Louis has for at least 50-60 years have been one of those places. You may hate the Cardinals but you can't deny those factors.


By the way, David Freese might be the most unluckiest players in baseball. Dude gets hit in the head by a ball. Another injury due to bad luck rather than being injury prone. Hope he is ok.This part I can agree with. The rest sounds like a college alumnus talking about old State U.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2011, 04:15 PM
I thought this was funny. From Hal McCoy:


Early in the game, when the Reds were pounding Stauffer for five home runs, a rainbow appeared over the right field stands and the Reds were filling the pot with baseballs.

“I never seen a rainbow here before,” said Baker. “Last time I saw one of those was in Hawaii.”

They nearly ran out of the fireworks they torch after each home run and somebody said, “There was so much smoke that Chris Carpenter was complaining about it in St. Louis.”



http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2011/08/13/whats_in_the_great_miami_river.html?cxtype=feedbot

Oxilon
08-14-2011, 04:24 PM
I thought this was funny. From Hal McCoy:



http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2011/08/13/whats_in_the_great_miami_river.html?cxtype=feedbot

That's awesome, but considering we're behind the Cards, I'm not sure we have any room to talk right now.