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TheBigLebowski
07-03-2011, 10:08 AM
Ok, folks....we're a french bread crust piece past the halfway point in the season, and the boys are underachieving. 84 games in, we are all-square at 42-42. Predictably, the natives are restless, and most of the jeers and taunts are directed towards one Dusty Baker. I agree wholeheartedly that the Reds are underachieving. However, I will not (and never will) tolerate spears and arrows being aimed in the direction of the architect of the most successful and thought-provoking strategery of winning baseball ever developed - Bakermetrics.

Over the next few days, possibly spilling past the all-star break, Yours Truly and the venerable Texasdave are going to give you folks a wake up call - a hands-on seminar of how to manage and play winning baseball. Depending on the performance of the students, this class may take a couple of days or a couple of weeks. Assessments will be given and decisions as to the scope and depth of the course will be made on the fly, so to speak.

The class is called "Bakermetrics 101" because we are starting at the bare-bones beginning. How far will we go with it? We'll see, dude.

First question. A fundamental concept of BM (henceforth, for the sake of expediency, "Bakermetrics" may simply be referred to as "BM"): We're talking lineup construction.

You manage a baseball team. You need to construct a lineup for today's game against the Montgomery Manhandlers. Who bats first and why?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________________

bigredmechanism
07-03-2011, 12:30 PM
Pitchers slot. Get that out of the way early, and he won't be clogging the bases.

BigPoppa
07-03-2011, 12:44 PM
CF bats leadoff, dude. Bigtime.

Todd Gack
07-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Who's most adept to batting leadoff for this team?

Honestly, it's a tough decision. Do I go with Stubbs? A man who strikes out on the pace of Adam Dunn. Chris Heisey? A man who doesn't hit well when he starts and strikes out at a Jay Bruce-like pace with a lower career OBP than Stubbs (albeit small sample)?

Who else do we have?

TheBigLebowski
07-03-2011, 01:09 PM
Big Poppa is 100% correct. CF bats leadoff, dude. Always and forever. Darren Lewis high-fives him and I place one toothpick in his quiver.

Next question, still on the subject of proper lineup construction.

In the given scenario, who bats second, dude?

mroby85
07-03-2011, 01:09 PM
I would like to see a thread on "redszone metrics" to see how they would construct things before the fact, rather than after. It's easy to say something would work like "Start Chris Heisey in LF" only to have later threads like "Heisey is a better bench player." or my personal favorite "Janish's stats project out like this, and he plays AMAZING defense" to "Bring up Cozart Now!".

DannyB
07-04-2011, 11:35 PM
Big Poppa is 100% correct. CF bats leadoff, dude. Always and forever. Darren Lewis high-fives him and I place one toothpick in his quiver.

Next question, still on the subject of proper lineup construction.

In the given scenario, who bats second, dude?

:p Shortstop,of course.
Hey this BM is pretty easy

AintlifeGrande
07-05-2011, 12:05 AM
BM scenario.2 on 1 out,bottom of 8th.Reds leading 3-1.Do you A.Leave in starterB.Go to bullpenC.Wait on starter to blow lead,then go to bullpen.

BAKER12
07-05-2011, 12:31 AM
I remember all the experts that were ticked that Cabrera was getting all the playing time over Janish last year. Same goes in 2009 when all the people were whining about Gomes not playing enough. Perhaps (shocking to some) Dusty and Walt have a better idea how to run a big league team than the message board experts.

ukwazoo
07-05-2011, 12:38 AM
I remember all the experts that were ticked that Cabrera was getting all the playing time over Janish last year. Same goes in 2009 when all the people were whining about Gomes not playing enough. Perhaps (shocking to some) Dusty and Walt have a better idea how to run a big league team than the message board experts.

Says Baker12

bigredmechanism
07-05-2011, 01:02 AM
Says Baker12

Come to think of it... I've never seen the two of them in the same place at the same time.

Billy_Bearcat
07-05-2011, 01:10 AM
:p Shortstop,of course.

I'd agree with SS...OR whoever is struggling at the plate and needs to "see some better pitches"

jhiller21
07-05-2011, 06:26 AM
Does the leadoff spot really matter that much? Stubbs has been awful lately, but with the way they're hitting it doesn't matter if Lewis or Stubbs leads off. Either way Bphil and Votto have nothing to drive in.

Vottomatic
07-05-2011, 08:46 AM
This team sucks. There is no lineup that is going to get them out of 4th place. I wish the Cubs weren't so far out and they had a chance to pass the Reds in the standings. Then maybe we'd get some real change.

TheBigLebowski
07-05-2011, 12:13 PM
:p Shortstop,of course.
Hey this BM is pretty easy

Exactly right. SS bats 2nd, dude. A toothpick for you.

Now for some hypothetical situations. These are short-essay questions.

It's the bottom of the 7th and you manage the home team. Your starter has pitched well but appears to be a bit gassed. You own a 2-0 lead but the leadoff hitter for the other team doubled. No outs. You have both a dependable lefty and righty available in the 'pen. What moves, if any, do you make?

malcontent
07-05-2011, 02:08 PM
Exactly right. SS bats 2nd, dude. A toothpick for you.

Now for some hypothetical situations. These are short-essay questions.

It's the bottom of the 7th and you manage the home team. Your starter has pitched well but appears to be a bit gassed. You own a 2-0 lead but the leadoff hitter for the other team doubled. No outs. You have both a dependable lefty and righty available in the 'pen. What moves, if any, do you make?
If I've got a 2-0 lead, ain't nobody gonna be warming up.

You said this was BM101, not 031.

BurgervilleBuck
07-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Says Baker12

And anyone with more than half-a-brain. Baker12 and mroby85 speak the truth.

TheBigLebowski
07-05-2011, 04:43 PM
If I've got a 2-0 lead, ain't nobody gonna be warming up.

You said this was BM101, not 031.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect, but I like the way you think.

bnancs
07-05-2011, 05:15 PM
All right, I never post, but this thread is too good.

1. I send my pitching coach for a visit to the mound, to remind my starter that "I have faith in him".
2. Pitch away, dude!

(Although, if I'm the home manager, it's the bottom of the seventh, and the other team just doubled, something else is wrong)

TheBigLebowski
07-05-2011, 05:28 PM
All right, I never post, but this thread is too good.

1. I send my pitching coach for a visit to the mound, to remind my starter that "I have faith in him".
2. Pitch away, dude!

(Although, if I'm the home manager, it's the bottom of the seventh, and the other team just doubled, something else is wrong)

This is the correct answer, and thanks for pointing out the inherent flaw in my question. Excellently done. To you I award two (2) toothpicks.

Next question:

You are managing the home team. It's the bottom of the 9th. Your team is down 3-2. You have the bases loaded and no outs. Your contact-shy left fielder is due up. You would have had better options on the bench but a few ill-advised double switches have left you with no option other than to let him hit, and he is, after all, a veteran. How do you play this situation? Swing away? Squeeze? etc

JohnCocktoasten
07-05-2011, 05:33 PM
You make the batter take until he gets two strikes. Then you order up a sacrifice fly. Productive outs are a good thing.

AintlifeGrande
07-05-2011, 05:35 PM
This is the correct answer, and thanks for pointing out the inherent flaw in my question. Excellently done. To you I award two (2) toothpicks.

Next question:

You are managing the home team. It's the bottom of the 9th. Your team is down 3-2. You have the bases loaded and no outs. Your contact-shy left fielder is due up. You would have had better options on the bench but a few ill-advised double switches have left you with no option other than to let him hit, and he is, after all, a veteran. How do you play this situation? Swing away? Squeeze? etc

Let em swing for the fences.BTW this thread is bordering on epic.

AintlifeGrande
07-05-2011, 05:37 PM
Is there a sweat bands consolation prize?

izzy's dad
07-05-2011, 06:34 PM
You give him the take sign on pitch #1( a fastball right down the middle of the plate.) After muttering F*#! to yourself (on camera) you give him the green light to swing away. He swings out of his shoes and misses pitch #2. You appear to send signs to third base, but in reality you and your coaches are trying to decide where to eat after the game. Unaware of your intentions the batter reads the signs and thinks he is supposed to bunt. He bunts pitch #3 foul, strikes out, 1 out in the inning. You give the next batter the green light to swing away, he does just that grounding right to the shortstop. A double play ends the inning.

TheBigLebowski
07-05-2011, 06:58 PM
You give him the take sign on pitch #1( a fastball right down the middle of the plate.) After muttering F*#! to yourself (on camera) you give him the green light to swing away. He swings out of his shoes and misses pitch #2. You appear to send signs to third base, but in reality you and your coaches are trying to decide where to eat after the game. Unaware of your intentions the batter reads the signs and thinks he is supposed to bunt. He bunts pitch #3 foul, strikes out, 1 out in the inning. You give the next batter the green light to swing away, he does just that grounding right to the shortstop. A double play ends the inning.

Lots of good answers, but this one hits closest to the bullseye. Well done. To you I also award two (2) toothpicks.

Next question dovetails with this one somewhat, as double switches were mentioned in the hypothetical scenario. It's a two-parter, and I will start with the first part.

True or false - double switches freaking rock, dude.

A) True
B) Really freaking true, dude

drowg14
07-05-2011, 07:14 PM
C. All of the above

NCCardfan
07-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Real good stuff, I'll bite.

The correct answer is 'B' of course and without attempting to hijack the thread it brings up a rant. I apologize in advance.

The DH is absurd, bumb, moronic and insane, other than that it's ok I guess. If that stupid comish gets his way it'll be in both leagues before long and that makes me want to puke! My option is this:

If the NL is cornered into the DH crud, then the DH hits for the STARTING pitcher ONLY! This leaves the strategery in place for the double switch and since relief pitchers only hit 2-3 times a season then this question will be valid for a long time.

End rant.

AintlifeGrande
07-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Uhum...start your own thread Joe Morgan.We are discussing Bakermetrics 101.:D

NCCardfan
07-05-2011, 09:26 PM
Uhum...start your own thread Joe Morgan.We are discussing Bakermetrics 101.:D

Hint noted and taken...:beerme:

BTW: I'm not Joe Morgan but I wish I could have played like he did and am glad I can't announce like does(n't):D

redsguy
07-06-2011, 05:50 PM
Lots of good answers, but this one hits closest to the bullseye. Well done. To you I also award two (2) toothpicks.

Next question dovetails with this one somewhat, as double switches were mentioned in the hypothetical scenario. It's a two-parter, and I will start with the first part.

True or false - double switches freaking rock, dude.

A) True
B) Really freaking true, dude

Not not B.

Red Rover
07-06-2011, 06:07 PM
The answer is B, dude. Only thing better is a triple switch.

AintlifeGrande
07-06-2011, 06:34 PM
8th inning down by 1 run.1 on,1 out.Starting pitcher is at the plate,who has gone 2 for 3,and is known to hit well.Do you A.Pinch hit with a low average veteran,B.Make the pitcher bunt,C.Let the pinch hitter bunt.

AintlifeGrande
07-06-2011, 06:34 PM
I'm digging:laugh: for questions here,trying to keep this thread alive.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:07 PM
8th inning down by 1 run.1 on,1 out.Starting pitcher is at the plate,who has gone 2 for 3,and is known to hit well.Do you A.Pinch hit with a low average veteran,B.Make the pitcher bunt,C.Let the pinch hitter bunt.

One thing is for certain. The starting pitcher is not getting into the batter's box. There are only so many opportunities for double switches in a game and they cannot be wasted.

NCCardfan
07-06-2011, 10:45 PM
8th inning down by 1 run.1 on,1 out.Starting pitcher is at the plate,who has gone 2 for 3,and is known to hit well.Do you A.Pinch hit with a low average veteran,B.Make the pitcher bunt,C.Let the pinch hitter bunt.

B. You have to, even if it's a good hitting pitcher their average is almost guaranteed to be .250. Your leadoff hitter is coming up next and since they are more than likely a contact batter the runner gets sac'd to 2nd, use pinch runner and let'em fly.


D. Put Barry Allen (aka 'The Flash') in as a pinch runner and let 'em swing away because 2nd base will get stolen on the first pitch:beerme::thumbup:

FireDusty
07-07-2011, 12:52 PM
I remember all the experts that were ticked that Cabrera was getting all the playing time over Janish last year. Same goes in 2009 when all the people were whining about Gomes not playing enough. Perhaps (shocking to some) Dusty and Walt have a better idea how to run a big league team than the message board experts.Dusty Baker is the worst manager to ever put on Reds uniform, period.

Vottomatic
07-07-2011, 01:06 PM
I'm digging:laugh: for questions here,trying to keep this thread alive.

What's your favorite color?

Blue, no red, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

LeDoux
07-08-2011, 05:11 AM
When does this class cover the bullpen?

AintlifeGrande
07-08-2011, 10:02 PM
When does this class cover the bullpen?



Good question.

LeDoux
07-09-2011, 12:46 AM
Using Bakermetrics, can you ever pull the closer? For example: If he is vomiting fluorescent blue plasma on the mound, bleeding from the eye sockets, and has thrown 15 straight balls - can another reliever be brought in or does the closer ALWAYS finish the inning?

texasdave
07-09-2011, 01:15 AM
Closers close, dude. Or they wouldn't call them closers. Someone is aching to be sent to remedial Bakermetrics asking questions like that.

dougflynn23
07-09-2011, 01:33 AM
Bakermetrics was the reason that Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Dontrelle Willis, Fred Lewis, Aroldis Chapman, Juan Francisco and Edgar Renteria struggled or were injured early in the season. As Dusty told us several years ago, "black and Hispanic players are better suited to playing in the sun and heat than white players". Should have left all the non-pasty white players in Goodyear until June. :laugh:

LeDoux
07-09-2011, 02:24 AM
Closers close, dude. Or they wouldn't call them closers. Someone is aching to be sent to remedial Bakermetrics asking questions like that.

I'm so embarrased. I'll do better. I just need an extention on the baseclogging paper and a tutor for lineup construction. I will pass this class!

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Closers close, dude. Or they wouldn't call them closers. Someone is aching to be sent to remedial Bakermetrics asking questions like that.

That's why texasdave has his PhD in Bakermetrics, dudes.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2011, 10:45 AM
Today's lesson - late inning baseball tactics.

This one's a bit challenging, so we'll grade on a curve.

It's the 8th inning in St. Louis. You correctly brought on Nick Masset as you have a one run lead and he's the 8th inning guy, dude. Nick faced two righties to start the inning and predictably retired them both as it's the 8th inning, Nick is your 8th inning guy, and he throws baseballs with his right hand and he was facing players who use their bats on the right side of the plate. Here's where it gets tough.

The next batter is a lefty. We've already established Masset throws the ball with his right arm. Aroldis Chapman is ready out in the pen. He's young, dude, and this is a big situation. Plus, he's not the designated 8th inning guy yet. But then again, he does throw baseballs with his left hand and the next hitter attempts to bat them from the left side of the plate.

Both Masset and Chapman throw cheese, dude.

Remember, the Cardinals are not faced with the unenviable problem of runners clogging the bases. No one is on, so they automatically have the advantage here, as we all know.

Do you:

A) Go get the lefty, dude. Make sure you tell the lefty to "get this dude out" when he arrives at the elevated pitching circle and violently spank him in the posterior.

B) Do nothing, dude. Masset retired the prior two batters easily, he's got good stuff today, why mess with what's working?

C) Execute the criminally underused double switch with subsequent entire team shift. We Bakermetricians call this one "The Dandy." (note: some Bakermetricians have also referred to this maneuver as "The Great Wall of Dusty.") Pull Cozart for Janish and Gomesy for Heisey (it helps when the players' last names rhyme - easier to keep up with). Once the new guys are in, shift the entire team (including the catcher - the ump can stop the ball, dude) to the right side of the infield and have them form a soccer-style wall between first and second base, with the guys with their backs to the plate. This will prevent flinching. They can't flinch if they can't see it coming, dude. Perform a mound visit, advise Masset we're executing "The Dandy," smack him violently in the posterior, and tell him to throw lots of off-speed stuff so the lefty will pull the ball to our impenetrable wall on the right side of the infield.

D) Put the lefty on and pitch to Pujols.

izzy's dad
07-09-2011, 11:16 AM
The answer is none of the above. You consult your son, who we all know is by your side for every game during the summer. He devises a brilliant plan to guarantee a win. You make baseball history by making the QUADRUPLE SWITCH. Hannigan goes to left, Gomes to third, Chapman doing the catching (he has a rocket arm after all), and Renteria comes in to pitch (he is a veteran, and a seasoned vet should be able to get a chump like Pujols out). While these moves are being explained to the home plate umpire Tony Larussa becomes so enraged that he slams down a 40oz. of Cobra and drives his car into the base of the St. Louis arch. The arch collapses on Nelly and kills him instantly. Meanwhile Renteria walks 16 batters in a row, Reds lose. In the weeks following Chris Carpenter wonders how exactly he is going to explain this turn of events to his son, then Johnny Cueto kicks him repeatedly in the head. -FIN-

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2011, 11:47 AM
The answer is none of the above. You consult your son, who we all know is by your side for every game during the summer. He devises a brilliant plan to guarantee a win. You make baseball history by making the QUADRUPLE SWITCH. Hannigan goes to left, Gomes to third, Chapman doing the catching (he has a rocket arm after all), and Renteria comes in to pitch (he is a veteran, and a seasoned vet should be able to get a chump like Pujols out). While these moves are being explained to the home plate umpire Tony Larussa becomes so enraged that he slams down a 40oz. of Cobra and drives his car into the base of the St. Louis arch. The arch collapses on Nelly and kills him instantly. Meanwhile Renteria walks 16 batters in a row, Reds lose. In the weeks following Chris Carpenter wonders how exactly he is going to explain this turn of events to his son, then Johnny Cueto kicks him repeatedly in the head. -FIN-

Let no one say we discourage independent thought here at Bakermetrics 101. This is not the correct answer, but I like where your head is.

drowg14
07-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Since Masset gets the first two men out in the inning, you take him out and let Chapman pitch to the lefty, and to pujols if the lefty gets on. If both of the first two righties had gotten on base, then you would have let Masset finish out the inning.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2011, 02:55 PM
Since Masset gets the first two men out in the inning, you take him out and let Chapman pitch to the lefty, and to pujols if the lefty gets on. If both of the first two righties had gotten on base, then you would have let Masset finish out the inning.

Did you enroll in this class during drop/add?

drowg14
07-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Yea, I decided it was more interesting than shop. All they wanted us to do in there was pump out toothpicks.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Yea, I decided it was more interesting than shop. All they wanted us to do in there was pump out toothpicks.

I see a bright future ahead for you.

texasdave
07-09-2011, 06:23 PM
Interesting factoids: Only one of the top 36 ACTIVE relievers in total saves is a lefty. Brian Fuentes. Only three of the top 28 CAREER relievers in total saves are lefties. John
Franco, Billy Wagner and Randy Myers.

AintlifeGrande
07-09-2011, 10:26 PM
I say B.Rusty is not known to play the percentage's as much as he would have you believe.

Boston Red
07-10-2011, 01:11 AM
Interesting double switch in the 9th tonight by Dusty. Making sure the Reds got worse on defense with the game on the line was brilliant. He also clearly anticipated that Cairo was going to be more important in the 2 hole than in the 7 hole in the 10th, so kudos to Dusty on pulling that one off.

BAKER12
07-10-2011, 01:13 AM
You guys are pathetic, never pleased even when the Reds win.

LexRedsFan
07-10-2011, 01:31 AM
You guys are pathetic, never pleased even when the Reds win.

Well, hey there Darren!

BAKER12
07-10-2011, 01:43 AM
Well, hey there Darren!

Little Darren has a higher baseball IQ than any of you bashers, it's humorous how much you guys HATE Dusty.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2011, 11:27 AM
Little Darren has a higher baseball IQ than any of you bashers, it's humorous how much you guys HATE Dusty.

First of all, Darren is not so little anymore.

Secondly, let it enter your sphere of consciousness that not all of us who participate in this thread or similar ones actually dislike Dusty. I actually like the guy a lot. This is just funny to me and apparently several others. His unyielding adherence to certain pieces of baseball dogma....proclivity for batting certain position players in certain spots regardless of their skillset, etc. It's just fun. However, those who truly dislike Baker certainly have a right to do so and a wealth of reasons to feel that way. Relax.

Old NDN
07-10-2011, 11:47 AM
I wonder if Dusty thinks up some of these illogical moves on his own? You would think Speier, Berry, Price, Hatcher would have some input. Surely they're not ALL in agreement with some of these head-scratching decisions.

LexRedsFan
07-10-2011, 03:54 PM
Little Darren has a higher baseball IQ than any of you bashers, it's humorous how much you guys HATE Dusty.

Cry me a river. I haven't contributed anything to this thread besides this post. I think this thread is funny. Dusty makes some head scratching decisions and it frustrates me. Anyone but you, who thinks he walks on water, will admit as much.

FireDusty
07-10-2011, 07:28 PM
Cry me a river. I haven't contributed anything to this thread besides this post. I think this thread is funny. Dusty makes some head scratching decisions and it frustrates me. Anyone but you, who thinks he walks on water, will admit as much.Baker12 coaches kids. He is tired of parents telling him how to coach. That is why he has a kinship with Dusty.

His love for Dusty is about that. It has nothing to do with Dusty Baker.

LeDoux
07-10-2011, 09:51 PM
Many Sundeckers have been having trouble getting their minds around Bakermetrics. At first I did too, but now I have seen the light. My suggestion to follow the Path of the Toothpick to Enlightenment. If I can offer my own testimonial - it works wonders.

The Path:

1. Get a crate of hearty toothpicks- gauge 8 or higher.
2. Soak these toothpicks in Dusty's Secret Sauce (aka ketamine)
3. Ingest the Secret Sauce by placing a fresh toothpick in your mouth every inning.

Blamo! The wisdom of Baker fills the mind.

Dusty's secret sauce works like 'Weed and Feed' on your lawn. Except it does not kill weeds and fertilize grass; it kills bad neurons which cause doubt and fertilizes the good neurons which reveal the glory of Bakermetrics.

Good luck on the Path of the Toothpick.

CrosleyField
07-10-2011, 11:48 PM
You may not like Dusty, but if you are going to get fired, you might as well get fired doing it your way. I do respect him for that. On the other hand if you win it all you can say you did it your way.

Vottomatic
07-11-2011, 08:44 AM
Baker didn't want to hurt Cordero's wittle fweelings by taking him out when the wheels were falling off (or did Dusty even notice?). Meanwhile the rest of the team suffers as well as the fans.

AintlifeGrande
07-14-2011, 11:33 PM
I wonder what is brewing in the Sabermetrics cauldron during the break.