PDA

View Full Version : Ok, looking at it from a different angle



mrherd05
07-03-2011, 08:24 PM
Ok, another way to look at it.

We have three all stars.
We have an all star closer who didnt make it due to too few of chances.
We have one of the best left handed specialists in the game in the pen in Bray, and thats not even including a potential gem in Chapman.
We have one of the best right handed set up men in baseball in Massett.
We have catchers that produce.
We have an excellent fielding shortstop.
We have the best bench in baseball, in relation to production.
We have Cueto and Leake who are pitching excellent. Wood still is up there in regards to quality starts for the team.
We have three other more than capable starting pitchers who all have pitched welll at times.

Yet, we are one game over .500.

Seems to me, the players ARE producing with the exception of two positions.

So. Who is to blame then??????

bshall2105
07-03-2011, 08:31 PM
Pete Rose

bleedsred
07-03-2011, 08:39 PM
These last few weeks most of the lineup has not produced. The month of June was awful for Bruce as much as he was a stud in May. Votto hasn't been tearing it up as well as Stubbs striking out at a horrendous pace. Add in the loss of power numbers from Rolen and no-stick at SS and this team has been in an offensive funk. The Reds have lost several extra-inning games or 1-run games where a clutch hit here or there would see them win another 5-6 games. Being only 2 games out with ths next 7 against STL and MILW is huge. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I wouldn't mind seeing Cairo get 3 starts per week as well as a platoon in both center and left.

Big thing is our pen has not been burned up lately and the Reds could have 3 frontline starters for the second half if they stay healthy in Cueto, Bailey, and Leake. IF Volquez continues to improve he could be a big surprise down the stretch run. As much as I would love to see the Reds rattle off seven wins in a row it would be nice to see them win 4 of 7 and stay within 2-3 games for the stretch.

DocRed
07-03-2011, 08:42 PM
Comparing 2010 vs 2011
------------------------

Catchers =
1st Base 2010
2nd Base 2011
SS 2010
3rd Base 2010
RF 2011
CF =
LF = (ya, ya......I hear ya but Heisey and Lewis have been decent to good this year)
RP closer 2011
RP middle relief 2010
SP 2010

Pitching has been the difference, in particular SP....but I think they will get it turned around and it will be an entertaining run for the pennant.

Stray
07-03-2011, 08:44 PM
It's really not that difficult.

We have a good run differential, the reason our record is where it's at is because we are losing close games. That is it. A couple of bloop hits that don't fall in, a brain fart from Phillips that never happens, an error or two avoided, a couple of shaky calls going our way...hell we could be 10 over .500.

Our pitching hasn't been consistently good enough to give us a margin for error, and lately our offense hasn't been good enough to do so either. So naturally in close games if you aren't getting the breaks or the big hits you're gonna lose.

bleedsred
07-03-2011, 08:48 PM
I agree with you Stray. This team could easily be 10 games over with a few breaks here and there....2 games were lost on close plays at the plate. This teams best baseball is yet to come (crossing fingers).

mrherd05
07-03-2011, 08:54 PM
A few breaks can also be made by a manager as well.

In the first half of the season, how many games has Dusty's managing skills won us? How many games has he lost us? If that difference is more than two we are in first place.

Stray
07-03-2011, 10:16 PM
A few breaks can also be made by a manager as well.

In the first half of the season, how many games has Dusty's managing skills won us? How many games has he lost us? If that difference is more than two we are in first place.

I'm sure Dusty is responsible for some losses sure, along with some wins. We've lost games because of bad defense from good players, bad base running by good base runners, bad pitching from good relievers, horrible stretches of hitting from guys that have shown they can hit, and just some plain old bad luck.

The blame goes all around including Dusty, but with all of the tough breaks and lack of clutch play we're still in it. If we were obviously outmatched and outclassed that would be one thing, but just think about some of the crazy one run games we've lost. With a few breaks, or a hit here or there, we are in 1st place right now, easily. As a fan I hope we get some of those breaks and bloops in the 2nd half, if not it'll be a painful season to watch.

Vottomatic
07-03-2011, 10:23 PM
A few breaks can also be made by a manager as well.

In the first half of the season, how many games has Dusty's managing skills won us? How many games has he lost us? If that difference is more than two we are in first place.

Dusty is terrible. Case closed.

Stray
07-03-2011, 10:27 PM
Vottomatic I see you saying that a lot, but I've yet to hear your reasoning for this season. With the players Dusty has to work with, what would you have done that would have us in 1st place right now?

Vottomatic
07-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Vottomatic I see you saying that a lot, but I've yet to hear your reasoning for this season. With the players Dusty has to work with, what would you have done that would have us in 1st place right now?

I can attribute directly 4 to 6 losses Dusty was responsible for.

This team would be in first place if not for him.

Stray
07-03-2011, 10:47 PM
That number is probably right. Considering we've played over 80 games that isn't so bad though, especially since he's contributing to wins too.

I'm still curious from everyone who aimlessly rips on him, what would you do different with the players he has to work with? Because what I've seen from Dusty so far this season is that he's willing to try just about anything with all sorts of different lineups to try to make it work. At some point the guys have to just play better. For example, it would be awfully nice if a left fielder would separate himself from the rest.

Vottomatic
07-03-2011, 11:27 PM
That number is probably right. Considering we've played over 80 games that isn't so bad though, especially since he's contributing to wins too.

I'm still curious from everyone who aimlessly rips on him, what would you do different with the players he has to work with? Because what I've seen from Dusty so far this season is that he's willing to try just about anything with all sorts of different lineups to try to make it work. At some point the guys have to just play better. For example, it would be awfully nice if a left fielder would separate himself from the rest.

Coming clean, I'm mad at Castellini, Jocketty and the whole management team.

3 beefs:
1. Sticking with Gomes for way too long. Yes, he currently is on his yearly hot streak. But it never last for long. I seriously believe that sticking with Gomes did cost us some games.
2. Not giving Cozart a chance by now. Even if he crashes and burns, he has nothing left to prove in triple A at this point. Same could probably be said for Sappelt.
3. Going into this season believing Rolen could continue to be the 4-hole hitter. How many HR"s does he have since the AS Break last year? I'm guessing like 6 or 7 at most. But someone will look it up. No opposing pitcher fears Rolen or anyone else in our lineup. This team is wasting their money on Votto when he clearly gets pitched around.

I'm probably maddest about #3. Just shortsighted not to do anything about it in the offseason. And I was clamoring about it then.

I am probably in my right to say I told ya so since I was upset about it before the season. And here we are in 4th place.

So......no......it's not all Dusty's fault. But his mindboggling strategic moves just add to my frustration.

But then again, as Sam Wyche said........there's golf and tennis to be played.......blah, blah, blah. There's more to life than a stupid baseball game. :D

mrherd05
07-03-2011, 11:42 PM
I would like to trade Votto for Furcal, Kemp, and Billingsly.

Then move Ramon and Homer (who I love) for prospects.

Then start Yonder at first.

Stray
07-03-2011, 11:44 PM
Coming clean, I'm mad at Castellini, Jocketty and the whole management team.

3 beefs:
1. Sticking with Gomes for way too long. Yes, he currently is on his yearly hot streak. But it never last for long. I seriously believe that sticking with Gomes did cost us some games.
2. Not giving Cozart a chance by now. Even if he crashes and burns, he has nothing left to prove in triple A at this point. Same could probably be said for Sappelt.
3. Going into this season believing Rolen could continue to be the 4-hole hitter. How many HR"s does he have since the AS Break last year? I'm guessing like 6 or 7 at most. But someone will look it up. No opposing pitcher fears Rolen or anyone else in our lineup. This team is wasting their money on Votto when he clearly gets pitched around.

I'm probably maddest about #3. Just shortsighted not to do anything about it in the offseason. And I was clamoring about it then.

I am probably in my right to say I told ya so since I was upset about it before the season. And here we are in 4th place.

So......no......it's not all Dusty's fault. But his mindboggling strategic moves just add to my frustration.

But then again, as Sam Wyche said........there's golf and tennis to be played.......blah, blah, blah. There's more to life than a stupid baseball game. :D

Fair enough, I'm baffled as to why we haven't called up Cozart too. He could be the bolt of energy that the team needs.

I'm OK with our LF'ers for now. They are all playing decent baseball lately and that really is all we need from them...not saying I would be opposed to an upgrade through a trade though.

texasdave
07-04-2011, 01:14 AM
Vottomatic I see you saying that a lot, but I've yet to hear your reasoning for this season. With the players Dusty has to work with, what would you have done that would have us in 1st place right now?

I would take issue with the inference that Dusty has no say in who the players on the 25-man roster are. Yes, ultimately, Jocketty decides. But anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that Dusty has a fair amount of juice in this regard (Krivsky being told to sign CPatt). Without question I feel that if Dusty wanted Renteria or Gomes gone they probably would be. There are no definites here. I do not know this for certain. But simply saying "with the players Dusty has to work with" is a bit disingenous. Dusty has some pull in who is on the squad. I would take that to the bank.

Stray
07-04-2011, 04:50 PM
I would take issue with the inference that Dusty has no say in who the players on the 25-man roster are. Yes, ultimately, Jocketty decides. But anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that Dusty has a fair amount of juice in this regard (Krivsky being told to sign CPatt). Without question I feel that if Dusty wanted Renteria or Gomes gone they probably would be. There are no definites here. I do not know this for certain. But simply saying "with the players Dusty has to work with" is a bit disingenous. Dusty has some pull in who is on the squad. I would take that to the bank.

I'm sure he does have his influence on who is here, but ultimately that decision is Walt's. To what extent he is influenced by what Dusty thinks is beyond me so I just don't even try to go there.

I do think if Walt wanted to make a change he would make one though, and just going by what I can see, I've seen Dusty try all sorts of different lineups this year to find something that works. I will agree we played Gomes too much during his slump (but you gotta play a guy to get him out of the slump) and maybe it's just me, but I would have tried Ramon in the 4 hole at least one time...he can't do worse than Rolen there.

All I was trying to say is that with the guys that we've had here, I don't think there is a lot more that he could have tried. At some point the players just need to play better baseball.

I saw it posted in another thread, but it did make sense. That maybe the players are a little too comfortable and under the impression that at some point they will just turn it on...that would be a bad thing and a shake up in the lineup could be just what is needed.