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Maker_84
07-05-2011, 10:11 PM
because this team is officially done. No offense, average starting pitching and bullpen. Thank you upper management for sitting on your a$$e$ all offseason and settling for players who all had career years last season and were doomed for a letdown season. I'm done posting for awhile

Who Dey Time
07-05-2011, 10:13 PM
because this team is officially done. No offense, average starting pitching and bullpen. Thank you upper management for sitting on your a$$e$ all offseason and settling for players who all had career years last season and were doomed for a letdown season. I'm done posting for awhile

Guess the old saying is true....every dark cloud has a silver lining!

mrherd05
07-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Quitters, all over the place. How quick you forget what happened just last season.

The embarrassing thing about all this is the actions of this sorry ass fan base.

mroby85
07-05-2011, 10:22 PM
This is seriously a frustrating team. You can call it a poor fan base if you want, but this team is completely irritating to watch in my opinion.

Krawhitham
07-05-2011, 10:23 PM
I'm done posting for awhile

At least one good thing has come from them being a .500 team

FloridaBuckeye
07-05-2011, 10:24 PM
WHAT?! Drew Stubbs NEVER strikeouts out... come on now

Krawhitham
07-05-2011, 10:24 PM
Quitters, all over the place. How quick you forget what happened just last season.

The embarrassing thing about all this is the actions of this sorry ass fan base.

Those who are quitting only became bandwagon fans last season

ervinsm84
07-05-2011, 10:38 PM
what kind of odds can i get on the Reds winning the division?

Ill put down 20$ on 100 to 1 for the Reds to win the NL central. Its clearly a sure thing and a lock that they wont so im sure youd enjoy a free 20$

Krawhitham
07-05-2011, 10:44 PM
so $20 pays $2000?

ervinsm84
07-05-2011, 10:47 PM
so $20 pays $2000?

bingo

bigredmechanism
07-05-2011, 10:52 PM
bingo

I would probably lay down 20 on that, considering that we're only 4 out. Would be a pretty smart bet at those odds.

bleedsred
07-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Win tomorrow and the Reds are 3 out and heading to MILW with a chance to overtake them since they are losing too.....

redram
07-05-2011, 10:58 PM
I said it before and I will say it again. Most of these players have zero heart and play that way. Stubbs shows no emotion and his refusal to change his approach at the plate for the teams good is just one example. To many me first players on this team. Oh and I am so glad we traded away the future AL MVP for this POS named Volquez. His attitude has to be the worst I have seen not only on the Reds but in baseball. He will NEVER be even an average pitcher and Dusty makes him our opening day starter. Some big changes are needed but what makes anyone thing they will make them. Last year was a fluke. How soon we forget what this team was like before last year. As fun as last year was this year has been more frustrating because of what we did last year. Hats off to the Brewers management and even The Cards for adding players that could help them win. Reds will end up 4th or even 5th this year and by the All-Star break we will be at least 4 games under 500.

ervinsm84
07-05-2011, 11:02 PM
I said it before and I will say it again. Most of these players have zero heart and play that way. Stubbs shows no emotion and his refusal to change his approach at the plate for the teams good is just one example. To many me first players on this team.

can you please define what you mean by zero heart?

redram
07-05-2011, 11:12 PM
can you please define what you mean by zero heart?

What need defining? Have you not watched them play. How soon after this embarrassing game tonight will Phillips be on Twitter telling everyone what he is doing later. Maybe Bronson can sing us all a song before he gives up 3 or 4 HR's his next start, or maybe Volquez can blame his problems on the lack of offense. From what I see on this team they play like a bunch of individuals and not like a team. Everyone has their own agenda and maybe that comes from Dusty I don't know, all I know is this team has way to much talent to be getting beat up on like this. Not all the players mind you, but enough of them to disrupt things. You can agree or not, I don't really care, it is just what I see when I watch them this year.

redram
07-05-2011, 11:19 PM
Quitters, all over the place. How quick you forget what happened just last season.

The embarrassing thing about all this is the actions of this sorry ass fan base.


I don't think fans showing emotion means they are a sorry ass fan base, in fact it means they care about the team they are pulling for and they get frustrated when they see players with this much talent dial it in way to many times. Fans pay these players to play a game so if they want to gripe and complain then so be it, it is their right. I would rather someone call it like it is rather than try and sugar coat everything. ANYONE that thinks this team will just snap out of it and start winning is not watching what I am. This team has some huge issues and it starts with Walt standing pat and not trying to improve what we had. I will be the first to eat crow if all of a sudden This years REDS win the division with no changes being made and I will be happy to do it. I just don't see it happening.

ervinsm84
07-05-2011, 11:22 PM
What need defining? Have you not watched them play. How soon after this embarrassing game tonight will Phillips be on Twitter telling everyone what he is doing later. Maybe Bronson can sing us all a song before he gives up 3 or 4 HR's his next start, or maybe Volquez can blame his problems on the lack of offense. From what I see on this team they play like a bunch of individuals and not like a team. Everyone has their own agenda and maybe that comes from Dusty I don't know, all I know is this team has way to much talent to be getting beat up on like this. Not all the players mind you, but enough of them to disrupt things. You can agree or not, I don't really care, it is just what I see when I watch them this year.

It needed defining bc some broad cliche, like "no heart" is often used for god knows how many multitude of reasons and I wanted to know what you meant by it.

How exactly does someone tweeting about stuff have any impact on whether or not the starting pitcher is going to give up 8 runs? The bronson and volquez critiques are fair, but bp has pretty much been stellar over the course of the season.

I also dont understand how youve really came to the conclusion that everyone on the team has some agenda other than performing well and winning games.

redram
07-05-2011, 11:34 PM
It needed defining bc some broad cliche, like "no heart" is often used for god knows how many multitude of reasons and I wanted to know what you meant by it.

How exactly does someone tweeting about stuff have any impact on whether or not the starting pitcher is going to give up 8 runs? The bronson and volquez critiques are fair, but bp has pretty much been stellar over the course of the season.

I also dont understand how youve really came to the conclusion that everyone on the team has some agenda other than performing well and winning games.


Well, I did not say all the players. The Phillips comment may have been a bit harsh, but watching the Cards crush us like they did makes you say some things you may not mean. And if Dusty keeps throwing Stubbs out their so he can strike out three or four time a night I may jump off a bridge. Oh and any pitcher on this team can give up 2 or 3 runs and feel like, Oh well another loss. This teams offense is horrible this year. We either win (not often enough) 10-2 or we lose ( way to much 3-1 ) the lack of being able to get the clutch hit this year is just baffling and if they could turn that around even some they would be in first. Last night game was an example. We had so many chances and could not cash in one time. The Cards had one or two and they cash in and win.

Vottomatic
07-05-2011, 11:37 PM
I guess I am smarter than Walt. All offseason I said this team was in trouble if Rolen remained the cleanup hitter and they didn't find a tablesetter/leadoff hitter other than Stubbs. I said they needed a legit cleanup hitter that opponents feared. By the way, that legit cleanup hitter hit 2 home runs tonight for the Cardinals. I guess Cardinal management knows what they're doing unlike Reds management.

How true, how true.

Oh well.

ervinsm84
07-06-2011, 12:00 AM
This teams offense is horrible this year. We either win (not often enough) 10-2 or we lose ( way to much 3-1 ) the lack of being able to get the clutch hit this year is just baffling and if they could turn that around even some they would be in first. Last night game was an example. We had so many chances and could not cash in one time. The Cards had one or two and they cash in and win.


This is pretty much where we disagree. Run differential year in and year out has been one of the best indicators of future success and which teams finish on top of the reg season standings (once in the playoffs its more or less a crapshoot). Am i convinced the reds will win the division? no. But id be willing to lay a hefty amount of money that if they led the division in run differential by a decent amt, that yes they would win the division . Currently theyre +27 today, STl is +28, Milw is +2, and Pitt +6. The reds were 3 games below their pythagorean W expectation, which basically is an indicator of luck.

Im going to end up being painted as homer with having the rose colored glasses and blinders on, but im the first one to say dustys a terrible manager dating back to his old quotes about not wanting slow guys who get on base a lot bc they end up clogging the bases. I do disagree with a lot of things that have happened, but really things arent near as bad as lance mccalister would have us all believe. Could they end up bad? Definitely, but if this teams ends up finishing the year a large number of games out of first, its not going to be done with a run differential that is basically equal to the first place team, but rather probably will have a bad differential.


Right now, as "terrible" as the reds offense has been, its scored the 2nd most runs in the NL, 2nd only to St Louis by a grand total of 1 run. Yet theyre tied for 11th in the NL in runs allowed. That makes me think pitching is the problem.

Krawhitham
07-06-2011, 12:04 AM
can you please define what you mean by zero heart?

The need to scream, yell and make a complete ass of themselves when they make an out or they have no heart

ervinsm84
07-06-2011, 12:10 AM
The need to scream, yell and make a complete ass of themselves when they make an out or they have no heart

:luvu::luvu:


i think were gonna get along quite nice

NatiWolfpack24
07-06-2011, 12:13 AM
I guess I am smarter than Walt. All offseason I said this team was in trouble if Rolen remained the cleanup hitter and they didn't find a tablesetter/leadoff hitter other than Stubbs. I said they needed a legit cleanup hitter that opponents feared. By the way, that legit cleanup hitter hit 2 home runs tonight for the Cardinals. I guess Cardinal management knows what they're doing unlike Reds management.

How true, how true.

Oh well.

I'm pretty sure you were riding Janish's nuts last year too. Why do you only pep your horn and bring up the rare things you are right about but forget all the wrong crap you have spewed? Be consistent at least.

Stray
07-06-2011, 12:13 AM
Last season gave us expectations, for good reason. That is what is making this really frustrating for a lot of us. I'm not giving up on them or anything, because it's way too early for any of that, but I definitely agree that Walt needs to shake something up to light a fire under these guys. They seem too complacent.

Krawhitham
07-06-2011, 12:23 AM
I don't think fans showing emotion means they are a sorry ass fan base

What makes the fan base sorry ass is the fact they believe every game is a must win game, this is baseball not football. Baseball is a long season and has a lot of ebb and flow to it. Fans here and on Twitter think every lose means the sky is falling.

They win tomorrow they are 3 out and Cards play Arizona next who have man handled the Brew Crew

Win tomorrow and 3 of 4 from the Brewers and they are 1-2 games out going into the all star game. 3 of 4 is not a stretch since the Reds have owned them for the last two seasons .

Something else the fan base needs to understand The Reds had a harder 1st half schedule than the Card or Brewers. In the 2nd half that is flipped and the Reds can make serious charge for the playoffs

St. Louis has had the easiest schedule in baseball so far, The Brewers SOS is about the same as the Reds but the did not have to play 46 games in 48 days. Days off alone make a schedule easier but is not seen in SOS calculations

Krawhitham
07-06-2011, 12:30 AM
This teams offense is horrible this year. We either win (not often enough) 10-2 or we lose ( way to much 3-1 )

The Reds are

12 - 18 in one run games
15 - 11 in blowout games (5+ runs)
16 - 15 in the Rest

wlf WV
07-06-2011, 12:55 AM
This is pretty much where we disagree. Run differential year in and year out has been one of the best indicators of future success and which teams finish on top of the reg season standings (once in the playoffs its more or less a crapshoot). Am i convinced the reds will win the division? no. But id be willing to lay a hefty amount of money that if they led the division in run differential by a decent amt, that yes they would win the division . Currently theyre +27 today, STl is +28, Milw is +2, and Pitt +6. The reds were 3 games below their pythagorean W expectation, which basically is an indicator of luck.

Im going to end up being painted as homer with having the rose colored glasses and blinders on, but im the first one to say dustys a terrible manager dating back to his old quotes about not wanting slow guys who get on base a lot bc they end up clogging the bases. I do disagree with a lot of things that have happened, but really things arent near as bad as lance mccalister would have us all believe. Could they end up bad? Definitely, but if this teams ends up finishing the year a large number of games out of first, its not going to be done with a run differential that is basically equal to the first place team, but rather probably will have a bad differential.


Right now, as "terrible" as the reds offense has been, its scored the 2nd most runs in the NL, 2nd only to St Louis by a grand total of 1 run. Yet theyre tied for 11th in the NL in runs allowed. That makes me think pitching is the problem.Do I remember the Reds being about +40 runs a couple weeks ago?(maybe longer,ah the days do slip away) If so, is that a quick drop? Is that part of regressing to the mean?

Vottomatic
07-06-2011, 08:58 AM
I'm pretty sure you were riding Janish's nuts last year too. Why do you only pep your horn and bring up the rare things you are right about but forget all the wrong crap you have spewed? Be consistent at least.

I have admitted I was wrong about Janish multiple times. You conveniently ignore those posts/statements.

I always say I'd rather see a guy given a chance, even if they crash and burn. Same goes with my desire to see what Cozart can do. He may crash and burn to. I'm not saying they're the answer. I'm saying we don't if they are or not, but we do know the current guys aren't the answer and this team is floundering.

Rare things I'm right about? I'm right most of the time. It's just hard for you to see because you're wrong most of the time. :D

One more thing..........you are way too serious. Lighten up Francis. :p

Redsnake
07-06-2011, 09:15 AM
At least this Reds team can finally be defined as sellers. Get rid of all the dead wait. Rolen, CoCo, Renteria and Gomes.

Unfortunately I'm not convinced Walt will replace them on the roster. He'll more than likey just go with a 21 man roster and let the young guys stay in AAA.
:D

bounty37h
07-06-2011, 10:02 AM
At least this Reds team can finally be defined as sellers. Get rid of all the dead wait. Rolen, CoCo, Renteria and Gomes.

Unfortunately I'm not convinced Walt will replace them on the roster. He'll more than likey just go with a 21 man roster and let the young guys stay in AAA.
:D

Im not sure what dead wait is (when your at a restaurant with no service for a really, really long time?)

texasdave
07-06-2011, 10:27 AM
A dead wait is when there is no one at the Pearly Gates when you get there.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 10:42 AM
It's ironic how people want to try to bust the chops of the posters who wanted Janish as starting shortstop over OCab. Doesn't that then indicate some major incompetence by Walt and Dusty? After all they watched the same 2010 season and came to same conclusion as the posters. And yet the posters are told, ad nauseum, how they can't possibly know as much as Reds' management. It's not like Walt and Dusty wanted OCab back but he signed for a gazillion dollars elsewhere. He signed for one million. About half of what Renteria got. So we know that isn't the case. I guess the only real conclusion to be drawn is that everyone, even some of the best in the business, misses on player evalutions from time to time.

DocRed
07-06-2011, 10:44 AM
Tonight is almost a must win IMO. Would be very hard to come back after getting swept by the Cards, especially now that they will have Pujols back. The Cards are for real IMO, I really thought Berkman would cool off but he hasn't.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Lance Berkman is one of the better hitters in the history of the game and has a very real chance of making the Hall of Fame. I would think anyone that follows the Reds would know that the way he has killed us over the past decade plus.

DocRed
07-06-2011, 11:21 AM
Lance Berkman is one of the better hitters in the history of the game and has a very real chance of making the Hall of Fame. I would think anyone that follows the Reds would know that the way he has killed us over the past decade plus.

Yes but he is 35 and had a bad year last year....the natural assumption is that he would be no better this year at his age.

Grouse
07-06-2011, 12:00 PM
I don't know why everyone is so upset when the Cards beat us, they have better players in every position than us, except second base. They Killed us last year, they just had (or have) a team problem that made them lose the division. They have pretty much rolled us for a decade. They go out in the off seasons and get people like Lance Berkman,and Matt Holladay, and we get people like Egear Rentiria, and Fred Lewis, What do you expect. I think we all were living in a fantasy land at the start of the season.... I've come back to earth. It makes is more exceptable, and enjoyable.

R_Webb18
07-06-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't know why everyone is so upset when the Cards beat us, they have better players in every position than us, except second base. They Killed us last year, they just had (or have) a team problem that made them lose the division. They have pretty much rolled us for a decade. They go out in the off seasons and get people like Lance Berkman,and Matt Holladay, and we get people like Egear Rentiria, and Fred Lewis, What do you expect. I think we all were living in a fantasy land at the start of the season.... I've come back to earth. It makes is more exceptable, and enjoyable.

well i guess 3rd place is a win for you. but not 2 me.

brm7675
07-06-2011, 12:28 PM
I believe what bothers fans is that unlike the teams of the early to mid 80's or the 2000's this team has talent and the ability to win if given a good manager and a few tweeks are made. What we are getting are no changes and the continued lame line from Mang't. This I believe is what bothers fans...

Vottomatic
07-06-2011, 01:16 PM
I don't know why everyone is so upset when the Cards beat us, they have better players in every position than us, except second base. They Killed us last year, they just had (or have) a team problem that made them lose the division. They have pretty much rolled us for a decade. They go out in the off seasons and get people like Lance Berkman,and Matt Holladay, and we get people like Egear Rentiria, and Fred Lewis, What do you expect. I think we all were living in a fantasy land at the start of the season.... I've come back to earth. It makes is more exceptable, and enjoyable.

I agree. And at the trading deadline, the Cards will make a great trade/move and the Reds will trade for Peter Pan.

I was not living in fantasyland. I said unless this team found a legit feared 4-hole hitter and quality leadoff hitter, they would struggle.

I'm not mad that they proved me right. I'm mad because management can't see it and fails to do something about it.

brm7675
07-06-2011, 02:02 PM
I agree. And at the trading deadline, the Cards will make a great trade/move and the Reds will trade for Peter Pan.

I was not living in fantasyland. I said unless this team found a legit feared 4-hole hitter and quality leadoff hitter, they would struggle.

I'm not mad that they proved me right. I'm mad because management can't see it and fails to do something about it.

To be far, how do you know Walt didn't try and just nothing was available or the cost was to high?

Hillsdale87
07-06-2011, 02:30 PM
Some of the names thrown around in the offseason: Jason Bartlett, Jayson Werth, David DeJesus, Josh Willingham. None of those guys have done anything this season and have been giant wastes of money. Berkman was a guy that the Reds could have gone after, but most people on this board mocked the Cardinals for signing him. I don't think most people thought he would have 23 HRs on the season, let alone at the all star break. Walt knew the team needed work at SS, but he wasn't willing to pay the price for Jason Bartlett (great idea in retrospect). The team spent $30MM investing in its own players in the offseason. How were they going to get a legit 4 hole hitter and a leadoff hitter? Werth and Crawford went for a combined $38MM per year, and those were horrible contracts. The hope was that Bruce would become that cleanup hitter, as the end of last season would have suggested. He's still not there yet, although he did carry the team for the month of May. Then with the little money available, Walt signed Fred Lewis. For some reason he has not hit leadoff often, although I'm hoping that will change. Considering the money available, I don't think Walt did a bad job in the offseason. Everybody knew that some young guys would need to step up for this team to be good, and those guys haven't yet.

Vottomatic
07-06-2011, 02:47 PM
Some of the names thrown around in the offseason: Jason Bartlett, Jayson Werth, David DeJesus, Josh Willingham. None of those guys have done anything this season and have been giant wastes of money. Berkman was a guy that the Reds could have gone after, but most people on this board mocked the Cardinals for signing him. I don't think most people thought he would have 23 HRs on the season, let alone at the all star break. Walt knew the team needed work at SS, but he wasn't willing to pay the price for Jason Bartlett (great idea in retrospect). The team spent $30MM investing in its own players in the offseason. How were they going to get a legit 4 hole hitter and a leadoff hitter? Werth and Crawford went for a combined $38MM per year, and those were horrible contracts. The hope was that Bruce would become that cleanup hitter, as the end of last season would have suggested. He's still not there yet, although he did carry the team for the month of May. Then with the little money available, Walt signed Fred Lewis. For some reason he has not hit leadoff often, although I'm hoping that will change. Considering the money available, I don't think Walt did a bad job in the offseason. Everybody knew that some young guys would need to step up for this team to be good, and those guys haven't yet.

I would put Berkman's good season on my list of things that have surprised me. Nobody could have predicted that. He looked like an aging declining ballplayer.

bounty37h
07-06-2011, 03:07 PM
To be far, how do you know Walt didn't try and just nothing was available or the cost was to high?

Why dont you ask yourself that question in all the other threads where you question or call him an idiot for not doing anything?

brm7675
07-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Why dont you ask yourself that question in all the other threads where you question or call him an idiot for not doing anything?

He is an idiot for:

Resigning Gomes
Signing Edgar
Adding years to Rolen's deal
Not bringing up AAA talent to see what we have
Not preparing Chapman for a starters role
Resigning Dusty

texasdave
07-06-2011, 03:38 PM
Something else the fan base needs to understand The Reds had a harder 1st half schedule than the Card or Brewers. In the 2nd half that is flipped and the Reds can make serious charge for the playoffs.

Rest of schedule for the 4 NL Central teams still in contention, including Wednesday's game. I don't see the Reds having the easiest schedule from here on in. If anything they have the toughest one.


TEAM PCT. >=.500 HOME
CIN 0.490 46 37
STL 0.485 42 40
MIL 0.481 37 39
PITT 0.478 36 40


Their remaining opponents total up the highest cumulative winning percentage. The Reds face the highest number of teams with winning records. And the Reds have the fewest home games remaining.

AintlifeGrande
07-06-2011, 03:40 PM
The Reds are just what they are, a mediocre team.Needs were not addressed in the off season,possibly due to finances,or just hoping lady luck would be with the club again this season.Success means never being satisfied,and always striving to improve.You keep running the same product out there night after night,and expecting different results is foolish.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 03:41 PM
I would put Berkman's good season on my list of things that have surprised me. Nobody could have predicted that. He looked like an aging declining ballplayer.

Berkman had knee surgery over the winter and missed the first month and a half of the 2010. I honestly believe that knee surgery played a big part in his down year. He may be overachieving to a certain extent. But that just cancels out the underachieving done by Albert Pujols to date. Between the two the Cardinals are probably getting what they should.

DocRed
07-06-2011, 03:41 PM
How does Pittsburgh have such an easy schedule? It seems like the only teams they every play are teams like Houston and Washington...

texasdave
07-06-2011, 03:41 PM
The Reds have nine games left with Pittsburgh. All in Pittsburgh.

AintlifeGrande
07-06-2011, 04:48 PM
Pittsburgh is for real,I have a feeling.And their talking about them being buyers at the deadline!

chuck6660
07-06-2011, 08:53 PM
there seems to be a lot of posters who believe the Reds can turn things around and are still a contender. I believed this when they were 25-17; however they have gone 17-26 since then and seem to be getting worse. How many runs have they scored over the past week...it seems every pitcher they face is an ACE. The course they are running needs to change and I don't see Dusty being the guy to change it.