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reds44
07-06-2011, 12:35 AM
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2011/07/05/below-500/



If you look at our team up and down the lineup, we have some of the best talent as any team. Right now, were just not putting it all together, Phillips said. I know its very frustrating for our fans. It really is. We just have to find a way to put it together because the ball that were playing right now, its unacceptable.




Its not uncommon for GM Walt Jocketty to be in the clubhouse postgame. But he was behind closed doors in the coaches locker room with the staff and Baker after this one. Could roster changes be a foot?



*In six starts since his return from a demotion at Triple-A Louisville, Volquez is 2-2 with a 5.29 ERA. It was 6.35 in the 10 starts before going down. He has a 12.38 first inning ERA for the season.


I dont know. This game sort of frustrates you. Im frustrated right now. The best thing to do is not talk too much. Dusty Baker when asked if there was hope for Volquez to turn things around.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-06-2011, 12:40 AM
Wow ... that's definitely interesting. Especially the part about Walt behind closed doors with Dusty. Hmmmm ...

And Dusty's non-comment on Volquez was also rather telling.

Here's hoping ...

OldXOhio
07-06-2011, 12:41 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah. Someone call me when the GM and manager actually do something.

RedsManRick
07-06-2011, 12:47 AM
I get the feeling Janish is not long for the Reds 25 man roster. When you're only here for your glove, you're making errors on routine plays and you're not hitting up to your own low standards, what value are you adding. I know the standard refrain is to DFA Retneria and bring up Cozart, but if I had to bet, I'd say Janish is the odd man out.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-06-2011, 12:51 AM
I get the feeling Janish is not long for the Reds 25 man roster. When you're only here for your glove, you're making errors on routine plays and you're not hitting up to your own low standards, what value are you adding. I know the standard refrain is to DFA Retneria and bring up Cozart, but if I had to bet, I'd say Janish is the odd man out.

If that's the case, make Zack Cozart the everyday SS and play Edgar sparingly only to give the rookie a day off here or there.

And I hope that they're also discussing the Stubbs situation. It's just not getting any better. He desperately needs to go down to AAA and learn how to make contact again. But giving him months on end to work out his problems against MLB pitching just isn't working.

AtomicDumpling
07-06-2011, 12:57 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah. Someone call me when the GM and manager actually do something.

Yeah I know. :laugh:

Don't hold your breath. It has been years since they have done something to actually improve the team.

757690
07-06-2011, 01:13 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah. Someone call me when the GM and manager actually do something.

Looks like you might get your wish.

From Fay:


Baker, general manager Walt Jocketty and the coaches were meeting behind closed doors as the players cleared out of the clubhouse.

OldXOhio
07-06-2011, 01:27 AM
Looks like you might get your wish.

From Fay:

.

I'll be shocked if they do anything appreciable.

mdccclxix
07-06-2011, 02:26 AM
The team comes first, I'm sure for players like Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Rolen, etc, but at some point they have to be getting frustrated as well, that's where leadership from Walt and Dusty can help refocus the team. Dusty's done all he can with this lineup, I believe.

Guacarock
07-06-2011, 02:43 AM
Could roster changes be a foot? Or could they be a big toe?

Stay tuned.

mth123
07-06-2011, 06:01 AM
Maybe its got nothing to do with the players. The Reds think they've assembled a play-off caliber team, but 87 games into the season they are below .500. In other towns, where the braintrust seems to have a little more fire in their belly, that would put the manager on the hot seat.

Its really a lot more common for teams in the doldrums like this to change managers than to change players. I'm not in agreement that the manager is the main culprit, but its an easy thing to change. IMO, adding a proven starting pitcher and a LH power type to platoon with Gomes coupled with a Cozart call-up is what is needed. IMO the roster is a few players short, but I suspect that Walt doesn't think so. If that's the case, it would seem Dusty would be the guy he's looking at here.

Ron Madden
07-06-2011, 06:21 AM
I get the feeling Janish is not long for the Reds 25 man roster. When you're only here for your glove, you're making errors on routine plays and you're not hitting up to your own low standards, what value are you adding. I know the standard refrain is to DFA Retneria and bring up Cozart, but if I had to bet, I'd say Janish is the odd man out.

I've been one of PJ's strongest supporters, loved his defense and thought this lineup could carry his weak bat but I tend to agree with you now.

edabbs44
07-06-2011, 08:04 AM
I get the feeling Janish is not long for the Reds 25 man roster. When you're only here for your glove, you're making errors on routine plays and you're not hitting up to your own low standards, what value are you adding. I know the standard refrain is to DFA Retneria and bring up Cozart, but if I had to bet, I'd say Janish is the odd man out.

Been saying this for a few weeks for three reasons:

1) If ER is outright released as many have wanted, that leaves this team with only Cozart and Janish and no safety net. Scary.

2) if Cozart is as solid a defender as most claim, there is zero reason to keep PJ around as a defensive replacement who cannot hit.

3) it is difficult to think that Janish is actually this horrendous at the plate. Maybe a few weeks down in AAA will clear his head and get him more in the neighborhood of where he was prior to 2011.

lollipopcurve
07-06-2011, 08:32 AM
I know the standard refrain is to DFA Retneria and bring up Cozart, but if I had to bet, I'd say Janish is the odd man out.

Agreed. I think they'll send Janish down, which seems to me the right move.

Ghosts of 1990
07-06-2011, 08:44 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah. Someone call me when the GM and manager actually do something.

My thoughts exactly. They're so thrilled to be around .500 and it shows

redsmetz
07-06-2011, 08:52 AM
My thoughts exactly. They're so thrilled to be around .500 and it shows

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does it show that they're thrilled to be at .500? I certainly didn't read that from the article? Is it because management hasn't snapped their fingers and the magical fantasy league baseball moves happened? I can't speak to what, if any, moves the club will make, but I doubt seriously that this organization is satisfied with being at or near .500. And I'm coming from being fairly pessimistic about any success this season (and I'm a textbook Pollyanna around these parts).

cumberlandreds
07-06-2011, 09:07 AM
Blah blah blah blah blah. Someone call me when the GM and manager actually do something.

Totally agree. Way past time in fact. I know bringing up AAA players may not help that much. But you have to do something. Especially, since you have quite a few in AAA just raking for most of the season. Who knows maybe one or two of them may be ingredient that make the difference? It's way past time to find out.

dunner13
07-06-2011, 09:49 AM
I'm a huge WJ fan but how Cozart is still in AAA is beyond me. He should have been up here a long time ago. We tried Janish its now become obvious that hes not an everyday SS send him down to AAA. Willis needs to be up here asap as well.

OldXOhio
07-06-2011, 10:00 AM
Just out of curiosity, how exactly does it show that they're thrilled to be at .500? I certainly didn't read that from the article? Is it because management hasn't snapped their fingers and the magical fantasy league baseball moves happened? I can't speak to what, if any, moves the club will make, but I doubt seriously that this organization is satisfied with being at or near .500. And I'm coming from being fairly pessimistic about any success this season (and I'm a textbook Pollyanna around these parts).

Perhaps "happy to let this play out with the team at or around .500" might be a better way to describe it. Either way, the "we're happy with what we've got at SS" and "just treading water" type comments from management don't portray a group that's entirely dissatisfied with what they've seen.

redsmetz
07-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I'm a huge WJ fan but how Cozart is still in AAA is beyond me. He should have been up here a long time ago. We tried Janish its now become obvious that hes not an everyday SS send him down to AAA. Willis needs to be up here asap as well.

The shame is that Janish can have value to this club. We've had any number of Paul Janishes with the Reds: Darrel Chaney, Doug Flynn, Tom Foley to name a few. But Janish as a starter should be past, or for some other team.

SirFelixCat
07-06-2011, 11:04 AM
I've been one of PJ's strongest supporters, loved his defense and thought this lineup could carry his weak bat but I tend to agree with you now.

Same here. I was in favor of giving Janish a shot coming out of ST. Well, he got the shot and failed, big time.

TheBurn
07-06-2011, 11:10 AM
Same here. I was in favor of giving Janish a shot coming out of ST. Well, he got the shot and failed, big time.
Fully agree.

nate
07-06-2011, 11:10 AM
My thoughts exactly. They're so thrilled to be around .500 and it shows

Apologies but this is simply wrong.

CrackerJack
07-06-2011, 11:43 AM
Also a team without a good cleanup hitter...again. Rolen isn't that guy, neither is Bruce.

Az Red
07-06-2011, 11:48 AM
We all know the waiting game as baseball nears the trading deadline. The price of a trade goes up and down based on players, performance, contracts, deadline, etc. If nothing is in the works then Walt is not doing his job. I think he is waiting on the market. Who is to say Cozart is not another Janish? I think Walt is working the market for veteran help. May or may not pan out but I believe he is doing his due diligence.

dunner13
07-06-2011, 11:55 AM
We all know the waiting game as baseball nears the trading deadline. The price of a trade goes up and down based on players, performance, contracts, deadline, etc. If nothing is in the works then Walt is not doing his job. I think he is waiting on the market. Who is to say Cozart is not another Janish? I think Walt is working the market for veteran help. May or may not pan out but I believe he is doing his due diligence.

Sure theres a chance that Cozart is as bad as Janish is but at this point there is no reason not to find out and Janish has never hit nearly as good as Cozart has and is currently hitting. Obviously thats in AAA and he hasn't done it in the big leagues but after half a season neither has Janish.

RedLegSuperStar
07-06-2011, 12:11 PM
The thing is you have to send a message.. It starts with the rotation and then the SS position. LF should be addressed. Players who should be in the hot seat:

Volquez

Janish
Renteria
Gomes
Stubbs
Rolen

I think Rolen is a leader on this team but sometimes you have to take pitches and work walks. His OPS is .690 and his power isn't close to the numbers of last year. However his home numbers are quite decent. I'm in no way screaming for him to be a home only guy.. But I'd rest him more on the road series then home games. Janish and Renteria are not the answer and we can beat that into sheer oblivion but we all know this. Gomes is strictly a lefty hitter and that's been true pretty much his career so I don't see that changing. We need an upgrade there and I'm think Heisey needs more of a perminate audition to know that answer. Stubbs has looked about as overmatched as one can be.. His on Adam Dunn like pace for strikeouts and that's nothing to be proud of. He is so talented thy I think he can go to Louisville.. Get his timing and mechanics down and come back and help this club.

Volquez is a mess. He looks as if he is out there just throwing. He doesnt have an approach he is just out there throwing. He walks are as bad as Arroyo's ability to give up HRs. I think this team should address those areas and go from there. Will they? Not at least until after break or when it's to late I'm afraid.

lollipopcurve
07-06-2011, 12:18 PM
The thing is you have to send a message.

I think that's right. From what has been written, the only "message" this team has received was early last year, when, apparently, Baker lashed into them after a poorly played game. Since then, there have been no reports of significant manager dissatisfaction and no roster shakeups. Happy with what we have.

It's possible they've let complacency take root.

paulrichjr
07-06-2011, 12:23 PM
What ex Cardinal player is available for Walt to go for? I wonder what Lou Brock and Bob Gibson are doing these days.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-06-2011, 12:23 PM
The thing is you have to send a message.. It starts with the rotation and then the SS position. LF should be addressed. Players who should be in the hot seat:

Volquez

Janish
Renteria
Gomes
Rolen

I think Rolen is a leader on this team but sometimes you have to take pitches and work walks. His OPS is .690 and his power isn't close to the numbers of last year. However his home numbers are quite decent. I'm in no way screaming for him to be a home only guy.. But I'd rest him more on the road series then home games. Janish and Renteria are not the answer and we can beat that into sheer oblivion but we all know this. Gomes is strictly a lefty hitter and that's been true pretty much his career so I don't see that changing. We need an upgrade there and I'm think Heisey needs more of a perminate audition to know that answer.

Volquez is a mess. He looks as if he is out there just throwing. He doesnt have an approach he is just out there throwing. He walks are as bad as Arroyo's ability to give up HRs. I think this team should address those areas and go from there. Will they? Not at least until after break or when it's to late I'm afraid.

Three of those five are Walt Jocketty guys that he brought in and/or brought back. I wonder if that makes our GM less likely to cut them loose and, in effect, admit his failure?

RedLegSuperStar
07-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Three of those five are Walt Jocketty guys that he brought in and/or brought back. I wonder if that makes our GM less likely to cut them loose and, in effect, admit his failure?

I wouldn't look it like that. As a fan I want this team to be successful. To run the same team out there night in and night out is redundant. Last year it seemed they could plug in anyone and they would do well. Janish for Cabrera, Cairo for Rolen and Votto, Heisey.. You name it. This year is a different story. No offense in sight.

joshnky
07-06-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm a huge WJ fan but how Cozart is still in AAA is beyond me. He should have been up here a long time ago. We tried Janish its now become obvious that hes not an everyday SS send him down to AAA. Willis needs to be up here asap as well.

The only way it makes sense to leave Cozart in AAA is if WJ is planning to use him as a trading chip. Any trade for a SS will likely involve sending Cozart in return and his value is unlikely to improve if he receives a call-up.

Now, I have no clue why Willis is still in AAA instead of Volquez.

HotCorner
07-06-2011, 12:35 PM
What ex Cardinal player is available for Walt to go for? I wonder what Lou Brock and Bob Gibson are doing these days.

I hear Ryan Ludwick is available. :D

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-06-2011, 12:39 PM
The only way it makes sense to leave Cozart in AAA is if WJ is planning to use him as a trading chip. Any trade for a SS will likely involve sending Cozart in return and his value is unlikely to improve if he receives a call-up.

Now, I have no clue why Willis is still in AAA instead of Volquez.

If the Reds don't even think enough of Cozart to call him up to replace two of the worst SS in baseball, why would another team trade anything of value for him?

RedLegSuperStar
07-06-2011, 12:42 PM
If the Reds don't even think enough of Cozart to call him up to replace two of the worst SS in baseball, why would another team trade anything of value for him?

That is a very very good point

MikeS21
07-06-2011, 12:57 PM
I am wondering is the Reds have as many questions about Cozart than they do Renteria and Janish?

It just seems to me that the folks getting paid the big bucks to know these things, for some reason haven't given the green light for Cozart to be called up. There have always been questions about Cozart. I've heard that his arm isn't strong enough to stay at SS. I've heard that his range isn't good enough to stay at SS. I know there are questions about whether or not he can hit. Point is, I just don't think they see Cozart as an upgrade.

Most teams are going to wait until the last minute to decide if they are going to be buyers or sellers. I'm sure Walt has been working the phones, but unless he is willing to part with Votto, I doubt anyone is doing much talking.

The Reds are in a dangerous position right now. It's easy to clamor for a trade, but you have to be extremely careful not to create another hole, while you are filling an existing hole.

mth123
07-07-2011, 06:36 AM
I am wondering is the Reds have as many questions about Cozart than they do Renteria and Janish?

It just seems to me that the folks getting paid the big bucks to know these things, for some reason haven't given the green light for Cozart to be called up. There have always been questions about Cozart. I've heard that his arm isn't strong enough to stay at SS. I've heard that his range isn't good enough to stay at SS. I know there are questions about whether or not he can hit. Point is, I just don't think they see Cozart as an upgrade.

Most teams are going to wait until the last minute to decide if they are going to be buyers or sellers. I'm sure Walt has been working the phones, but unless he is willing to part with Votto, I doubt anyone is doing much talking.

The Reds are in a dangerous position right now. It's easy to clamor for a trade, but you have to be extremely careful not to create another hole, while you are filling an existing hole.


I've never heard any issues with Cozart staying at SS. I've actually heard quite the opposite. Cozart was considered a major league ready defender on the day he was drafted. Its true that he doesn't have the arm that Janish has, but I've never, ever heard any suggestion that he can't stay at SS and actually should provide strong defense at the position. I've heard the things you are saying in conjuction with both Frazier and Valaika (and they have both been moved off of the position), but never about Cozart.

Somebody somewhere on here (I think it was Lollipopcurve or Island Red) made a point about not wanting to bring up a kid and put him in a position of being a savior. I'm guessing this is why Cozart hasn't been called. I'm wondering if the Reds may be waiting for the team to get on a bit of a roll to introduce Cozart into the mix. I'd guess that they want to avoid creating the perception that inserting Cozart is the answer to all the teams ills (it surely is not).