Grandal Taken for Granted

[mdccclxix]

Seemingly since the day he was drafted. He wasn't the pick that many wanted, mainly because he wasn't likely to be available. There is a lot to like about Mesoraco, who's "comeback" has been fun to watch, but no one is a guarantee, so why discount what Grandal is doing?

A+ .296 /.410 /.510 /.920
AA .333 / .351 /.583 /.935

11 HR, 20 2b, 42bb/64k's, 22 years old. Likely stopping into AAA next year. Boom, at the ready, here's your top 5 talent. With all the talk of trading prospects, he's come up a bit, the throne belongs to Mez for now, but why? I mean the numbers are all here for Grandal. Let's not get too spoiled and ignore Grandal's chances at taking over at Catcher. Perhaps others can speak to it, but he could also be 1b or 3b if Mez does work out. With Votto and Rolen out of the long term picture, I see Grandal as a very important piece to our system and not really all that expendable.

[fearofpopvol1]

I've been saying this since he was drafted and I didn't feel like too many agreed at the time. I feel like many at RZ vastly underrated him during the prospect rating exercise before the season started. The guy is a good baseball player. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here but rather pointed out that many either dismissed or vastly underrated Grandal far too early.

[bubbachunk]

How are people undervaluing him? It is not as if he is being dismissed but what Mes has been doing has just been so very good plus he is closer to being ready.

AAA .308/ .385/ .527/ .912

9 HR, 30 2b, 32bb/52k at 23 years old

Sure his is not getting salivated over, but he is reason number one to pay attention to Carolina and for many on the board I would assume it is the same.

[RedLegsToday]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is overlooking Grandal. Don't forget, Mes is only 6 months older than him, and crushing AAA (he's averaging a double about every 9 ab's, that's incredibly impressive).

Grandal has only played about 15 games above A ball. If he continues to rake the rest of this season in AA, then he's definitely someone to be excited about next year. There's a good chance Mes and Grandal will be listed as the Reds top 2 prospects going into next season. That's a nice problem for a team to have.

[Benihana]

Seemingly since the day he was drafted. He wasn't the pick that many wanted, mainly because he wasn't likely to be available. There is a lot to like about Mesoraco, who's "comeback" has been fun to watch, but no one is a guarantee, so why discount what Grandal is doing?

A+ .296 /.410 /.510 /.920
AA .333 / .351 /.583 /.935

11 HR, 20 2b, 42bb/64k's, 22 years old. Likely stopping into AAA next year. Boom, at the ready, here's your top 5 talent. With all the talk of trading prospects, he's come up a bit, the throne belongs to Mez for now, but why? I mean the numbers are all here for Grandal. Let's not get too spoiled and ignore Grandal's chances at taking over at Catcher. Perhaps others can speak to it, but he could also be 1b or 3b if Mez does work out. With Votto and Rolen out of the long term picture, I see Grandal as a very important piece to our system and not really all that expendable.


I agree that he is taken for granted by most Reds observers because of the presence of Mesoraco. He is a very good prospect, and most likely one of the 10 best (maybe even top 5) catching prospects in all of baseball.

However I disagree that he is "not really all that expendable." Grandal and Alonso are the very definition of expendable, meaning that they could and should be traded in the right deal for a more pressing need. Their value lies at one position, and that position is unlikely to be available in the forseeable future. Now if Grandal could be an above average 3B, I might think differently, but I really see his value being behind the plate, much like Alonso's is at 1B.

[MikeS21]

Grandal needs to learn how to play 3B.

[corkedbat]

I have included he with Mes every time a post has come u suggestinf they be included in a deal. They aren't untouchable, but shouldn't be dealt unless there is MAJOR talent in return that is under club control for more than this season. Both are very valuable commodities at a premium position.

If we were to do a midseason Top 40 Reds prospect list right now, they might well be 1 and 1A for me.

[partisan]

Grandal needs to learn how to play 3B.

Or Alonso. Someone other than Cisco since I have no interest in bringing him up.

[dougdirt]

I don't think anyone is taking Grandal for granted, but there are two things that should be noted.... he has a handful of at bats outside of the California League (which is almost the equivalent of playing in Coors) so his numbers, while good, should be tempered a little bit because of the league he was playing in and the fact that Mesoraco is just nearly unanimously viewed as the better of the two.

[mdccclxix]

I maintain Grandal is taken for granted, just as Alonso has been since Votto emerged. In these circumstances the lack of need takes the luster off. Perhaps it's a better way to perceive a player when you don't need them. The fervor isn't there and you're not projecting too high of a ceiling. Look at the Juan Francisco and Todd Frazier effects. When Rolen slumps or gets injured they start getting sized up a little more eagerly. Maybe it just brings their fans out of the woodwork. It's impossible to keep track of who has stated this about that player, so this isn't meant to single anyone out. I just think the general sheen of a player like Grandal would have been much brighter in 2008, for example. All that optimism during that time has really been rewarded by the likes of Cueto, Votto, and Bruce. So, it makes me wonder, are we selling Grandal short just because Mez is doing so well? I'd have to say yes. He's off to a great start. Perhaps the power isn't there like Mez, but he's still at an Alonso type level.

[mdccclxix]

I agree that he is taken for granted by most Reds observers because of the presence of Mesoraco. He is a very good prospect, and most likely one of the 10 best (maybe even top 5) catching prospects in all of baseball.

However I disagree that he is "not really all that expendable." Grandal and Alonso are the very definition of expendable, meaning that they could and should be traded in the right deal for a more pressing need. Their value lies at one position, and that position is unlikely to be available in the forseeable future. Now if Grandal could be an above average 3B, I might think differently, but I really see his value being behind the plate, much like Alonso's is at 1B.

Maybe it's just me, but I think often times Catchers can readily move to 1b. To that end, I see Grandal as a potential solution to 1b if Votto is gone. He's also insurance if Mez doesn't work out. I don't consider him blocked yet for that reason. 3b would be a real boon for the organization. I'd love to see that as well. One thing I think can be counted on is the Reds will want/need defense at C, so that will go a long way in determining who's at C, 1b, 3b, or even with the Reds.

[dougdirt]

I maintain Grandal is taken for granted, just as Alonso has been since Votto emerged. In these circumstances the lack of need takes the luster off. Perhaps it's a better way to perceive a player when you don't need them. The fervor isn't there and you're not projecting too high of a ceiling. Look at the Juan Francisco and Todd Frazier effects. When Rolen slumps or gets injured they start getting sized up a little more eagerly. Maybe it just brings their fans out of the woodwork. It's impossible to keep track of who has stated this about that player, so this isn't meant to single anyone out. I just think the general sheen of a player like Grandal would have been much brighter in 2008, for example. All that optimism during that time has really been rewarded by the likes of Cueto, Votto, and Bruce. So, it makes me wonder, are we selling Grandal short just because Mez is doing so well? I'd have to say yes. He's off to a great start. Perhaps the power isn't there like Mez, but he's still at an Alonso type level.

I guess the question is.... why does it matter if the fans don't estimate his value correctly? The Reds do and the scouts do. I think that right now Grandal is a Top 50 prospect in baseball or really close to it. Top 75 without a doubt.

[mdccclxix]

I guess the question is.... why does it matter if the fans don't estimate his value correctly? The Reds do and the scouts do. I think that right now Grandal is a Top 50 prospect in baseball or really close to it. Top 75 without a doubt.

Fair enough. I mean, the fans opinion almost never matters to the brass tacks stuff. But us fans will still cluck if that's alright, right? To your point on rankings, why was he left off BA's top 100? Too many Reds or something?

[dougdirt]

Fair enough. I mean, the fans opinion almost never matters to the brass tacks stuff. But us fans will still cluck if that's alright, right? To your point on rankings, why was he left off BA's top 100? Too many Reds or something?

He hadn't played yet when it came out? He was inside some guys Top 100's from BA, just not the overall one.

[mdccclxix]

He hadn't played yet when it came out? He was inside some guys Top 100's from BA, just not the overall one.

I guess its a similar instance where subjective analysis left him unnoticed.

[Superdude]

With all the talk of trading prospects, he's come up a bit, the throne belongs to Mez for now, but why? I mean the numbers are all here for Grandal. Let's not get too spoiled and ignore Grandal's chances at taking over at Catcher. Perhaps others can speak to it, but he could also be 1b or 3b if Mez does work out. With Votto and Rolen out of the long term picture, I see Grandal as a very important piece to our system and not really all that expendable.

Mes is knocking on the door to the big leagues and has always projected as the better player. No one's knocking Grandal, but placing him on the same level as Mesoraco is just inaccurate. And for that reason, he's probably the most expendable player in the system. Not saying you give him away for nothing, but splitting time with Mesoraco or playing him at 1B is just a huge waste of value. He's a must trade in my book.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm sure there are a bunch of Reds fans like me who are following Grandal's minor league progress very closely. I started the thread when he was promoted from Bakersfield to Carolina. Prior to that, there were several posters clamoring for him to be promoted because of how well he was playing. We were talking about it all the time in the minor league game threads.

Maybe you just weren't paying close enough of attention ... but no one is taking Grandal for granted. There's been plenty of talk about him on this board.

[mdccclxix]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm sure there are a bunch of Reds fans like me who are following Grandal's minor league progress very closely. I started the thread when he was promoted from Bakersfield to Carolina. Prior to that, there were several posters clamoring for him to be promoted because of how well he was playing. We were talking about it all the time in the minor league game threads.

Maybe you just weren't paying close enough of attention ... but no one is taking Grandal for granted. There's been plenty of talk about him on this board.

There is talk. I mean, he's no Billy Hamilton, but he gets mention when he performs. I think too often I'm seeing the talk surrounding Grandal is absent of future plans within the organization. He's either getting traded or??

He's the picture of consistency. He's not disappointed observers at all. Perhaps the norm around here is that the 1st rounder should just breeze right up to the majors. Well, that's what he appears to be doing so far, just without much desire or need for it among fans. My thinking is we've got to find a way to work this guy into the future if he keeps this up.

[Superdude]

My thinking is we've got to find a way to work this guy into the future if he keeps this up.

Are we going to move him off catcher? The guy has a chance to be a pretty elite player behind the dish, but probably isn't all that special at first or third. Let scouts drool over him for the next year and then start actively shopping him until someone backs the truck up to Walt's doorstep.

[mth123]

Are we going to move him off catcher? The guy has a chance to be a pretty elite player behind the dish, but probably isn't all that special at first or third. Let scouts drool over him for the next year and then start actively shopping him until someone backs the truck up to Walt's doorstep.

:thumbup:

[mdccclxix]

Are we going to move him off catcher? The guy has a chance to be a pretty elite player behind the dish, but probably isn't all that special at first or third. Let scouts drool over him for the next year and then start actively shopping him until someone backs the truck up to Walt's doorstep.

It's as good a plan as any I suppose. I mean, they all sound good in theory. There are still a lot of unknowns though, so I am thinking more about how we keep this guy and benefit from it. If he performs well and by god we do not need him, then how lucky we are! The vibe surrounding him will hopefully not be that we don't want or need him, that doesn't help his value.

As for 1b, if he OPS'd .825 he'd be above league average, so it's possible he'd be a benefit there. If somehow he played 3b and OPS'd .750 he'd be above league average. 3b is not the power position it once was I guess.