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texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:27 PM
Louisville and Columbus early. 0-0 bottom of the second. Justin Germano, pitching for Columbus, has given up no hits and struck out 4 through two.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Jacksonville and Carolina are delayed. Kyle McCulloch and his 5+ ERA will be on the mound for the Muddies.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:32 PM
Dayton is playing host to the Tincaps of Fort Wayne. Josh Smith has struck out two in the first inning. One Dragon has hit safely. Any guesses as to who that might be?

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Dayton is playing host to the Tincaps of Fort Wayne. Josh Smith has struck out two in the first inning. One Dragon has hit safely. Any guesses as to who that might be?

Dayton isn't playing host, Fort Wayne is the host. Otherwise I would have guessed Heater.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:36 PM
I must be scoreboard dyslexic tonight.

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 07:38 PM
I must be scoreboard dyslexic tonight.

Happens to the best of us!

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:42 PM
Wood with three scoreless frames - 1 hit, 1K. Louisville still looking for their first hit.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Ex-Red with 3 hitless innings pitched, 5 Ks.

batsfan
07-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Noy sure if it is his request or not but Mike Costanzo's walk up music is the Seinfeld theme :D

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Josh Smith has struck out 4 in the first two innings. 1 hit, no runs.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Noy sure if it is his request or not but Mike Costanzo's walk up music is the Seinfeld theme :D

Nice touch.

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:50 PM
Wood with a scoreless fourth. Bats still looking for a baserunner.

muddie
07-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Noy sure if it is his request or not but Mike Costanzo's walk up music is the Seinfeld theme :D

It was Three Doors Down, Kryptonite here.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Columbus 1 hit, Louisville 0 hits

Going to the 5th

texasdave
07-06-2011, 07:58 PM
Germano needs to let go of the past. All that pent up anger can't be healthy.

muddie
07-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Frazier starting at first and Costanzo starting at third.

muddie
07-06-2011, 08:12 PM
Mudcats postponed. Will be a part of a double header later this month when Jacksonville returns. Lot of bad weather around this evening.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 08:17 PM
Bats trail 1-0 in the 6th

Still hitless.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 08:29 PM
2-0 Clips

Frazier bunts for the first hit in the bottom of the 6th.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 08:33 PM
Constanzo follows with a single up the middle.

Still no outs

edit: Valaika bunts but they get Frazier at third

GOYA
07-06-2011, 08:37 PM
Cozart hits into a DP.

kookyguy
07-06-2011, 08:53 PM
Does anyone know if there is radio coverage for ARZ reds would love to follow the games live.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Cozart fails again in the bottom of the 8th with the bases loaded with a 2-out K. Those crying for Cozart to replace Janish are not paying attention.

reds44
07-06-2011, 09:25 PM
Cozart fails again in the bottom of the 8th with the bases loaded with a 2-out K. Those crying for Cozart to replace Janish are not paying attention.
Cozart of the .310 BA and .825 OPS variety.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Cozart of the .310 BA and .825 OPS variety.

Not lately. Not by a longshot.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:29 PM
Sappelt singles, Alonso doubles and the Bats are making noise in the bottom of the 9th. Still down 2-0.

Mesoraco up.

reds44
07-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Not lately. Not by a longshot.
Yes, players do go through ups and downs. Unless your a Reds SS, then you just are always down.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Mesoraco walks and they're loaded for Hermida. Still nobody out.

camisadelgolf
07-06-2011, 09:32 PM
Coming into today, the AZL Reds have committed 23 errors in 13 games, which has resulted in 17 unearned runs this year, making up 23.3% of the total runs they've allowed.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:35 PM
Hermida hits one off the fence and doubles in 2 runs. We're tied at 2-2.

Still nobody out and Mesoraco is the winning run at third.

Dorn will be walked to face Frazier.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Sac fly by Frazier and Bats win 3-2. :)

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Of the Clippers 30 losses (57-30), 10 belong to the Bats.


Player Pos AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Cozart SS 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 .310
Sappelt CF 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .316
Alonso LF 4 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 .299
Negron PR 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .190
Mesoraco C 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 .301
Hermida RF 4 0 2 1 0 0 2 0 1 .328
Dorn DH 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 .259
Frazier 1B 2 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 .269
Costanzo 3B 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 .333
Valaika 2B 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .235

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Wood, T 7.0 5 2 2 1 4 0 3.32
Boxberger 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00
Gil (W, 4-4) 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4.31

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:44 PM
double post

Kc61
07-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Not lately. Not by a longshot.

Yes but if Cozart has a major league ops of .700 he is an upgrade.

RedLegsToday
07-06-2011, 09:48 PM
I see Boxberger is slumping. He gave up a hit tonight. ;)

partisan
07-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Cozart fails again in the bottom of the 8th with the bases loaded with a 2-out K. Those crying for Cozart to replace Janish are not paying attention.

No, we're still paying attention. It's just that I'm not going to change my mind when Cozart goes 0-4 in one game when that's depressingly common out of Janish.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 09:58 PM
No, we're still paying attention. It's just that I'm not going to change my mind when Cozart goes 0-4 in one game when that's depressingly common out of Janish.

Not one game. How's he done since mid-June?

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Not one game. How's he done since mid-June?

Coming into tonight he was hitting .263 over that time span....

GOYA
07-06-2011, 10:06 PM
Coming into tonight he was hitting .263 over that time span....

Yep. And what was his OPS?

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 10:07 PM
Yep. And what was his OPS?

.700 or so.

Sample size matters though. 76 at bats don't tell us much.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 10:07 PM
It tells us how is hitting now.

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 10:11 PM
It tells us how is hitting now.

Doesn't tell us how he will hit tomorrow. Or how he would have hit in all of June with the Reds. Or how he projects to hit in July. Or how even at the level he has hit in that span that it probably is still an upgrade over what we had been getting from whoever was starting at shortstop for us.

mace
07-06-2011, 10:12 PM
Dayton scored 5 in the seventh to go up 8-5. The rally included a HR by Torreyes. D'Anna then completed a back-to-back deal.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 10:16 PM
No, it tells us how is is hitting now. Now against AAA pitching.

You think a guy who has gone nearly a month in AAA with a sub .700 OPS and a lesser glove would be an improvement over Janish is called up tomorrow?

mace
07-06-2011, 10:16 PM
Cingrani, the third-rounder, started for Billings and went two scoreless with 4 K. Dayne Read (.396) has a HR. It's 4-0 Billings in the fourth.

mace
07-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Drew Hayes picks up his 13th save and Dayton wins 8-5. Hayes and Daniel Wolford struck out 7 in the final 3.1 innings. Dayton is now 10-3 in the second half.

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 10:21 PM
No, it tells us how is is hitting now. Now against AAA pitching.

You think a guy who has gone nearly a month in AAA with a sub .700 OPS and a lesser glove would be an improvement over Janish is called up tomorrow?

Yes, I do. Because Zack Cozart is a better hitter than Paul Janish is without a single doubt in my mind. By the way, what is Paul's OPS on the season? .520 or something?

Blitz Dorsey
07-06-2011, 10:26 PM
Cozart fails again in the bottom of the 8th with the bases loaded with a 2-out K. Those crying for Cozart to replace Janish are not paying attention.

Uh, the difference is one has sucked for a week and the other has sucked all season. Who's not paying attention again?

Blitz Dorsey
07-06-2011, 10:29 PM
Drew Hayes picks up his 13th save and Dayton wins 8-5. Hayes and Daniel Wolford struck out 7 in the final 3.1 innings. Dayton is now 10-3 in the second half.

The Dayton Dragons are an absolute juggernaut lately. I love it.

bubbachunk
07-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Zack Cozart gives me faith that he can hit a ball to the wall, but with Janish I pray that he can muscle it out of the infield.

GOYA
07-06-2011, 10:59 PM
Cozart


Date AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO
Jun 15 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 16 4 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1
Jun 17 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jun 18 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
Jun 19 4 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 2
Jun 20 5 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jun 21 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 23 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 24 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 25 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 26 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 27 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 28 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
Jun 29 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0
Jun 30 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jul 01 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jul 02 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 04 5 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 2
Jul 05 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 06 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2

Totals 85 8 21 4 1 1 5 7 17

.247/.329/.353 - .682 OPS

Superdude
07-06-2011, 11:15 PM
Cozart


Date AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO
Jun 15 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 16 4 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1
Jun 17 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jun 18 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
Jun 19 4 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 2
Jun 20 5 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jun 21 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 23 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 24 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 25 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 26 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 27 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 28 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
Jun 29 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0
Jun 30 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jul 01 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jul 02 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 04 5 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 2
Jul 05 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 06 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2

Totals 85 8 21 4 1 1 5 7 17

.247/.329/.353 - .682 OPS

obligatory small sample size comment.

mace
07-06-2011, 11:33 PM
Our kids out west are knocking it around tonight.

Billlings scored 8 in the sixth to go up 12-5. Devin Lohman and Nick O'Shea have three hits each. Read has two, including the HR, and has driven in four.

The AZL Reds lead 8-0 in the fifth. (I seem to recall another team in the organization that led 8-0 tonight . . . ) Brennan May has a grand slam. Brandon Dailey is 2/3 to raise his average to .448. Justice French has 11 K in five innings. And zero walks. (He did give up a run in the fifth to make it 8-1.)

dougdirt
07-06-2011, 11:43 PM
Cozart


Date AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO
Jun 15 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 16 4 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1
Jun 17 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jun 18 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
Jun 19 4 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 2
Jun 20 5 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jun 21 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 23 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 24 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 25 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 26 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 27 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 28 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
Jun 29 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0
Jun 30 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jul 01 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jul 02 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 04 5 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 2
Jul 05 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 06 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2

Totals 85 8 21 4 1 1 5 7 17

.247/.329/.353 - .682 OPS

So in 85 at bats he has 2 fewer walks, half as many doubles, the same amount of triples and 1 more HR than Paul Janish does this year?

HalKing
07-06-2011, 11:44 PM
Cozart hit the first pitch thrown in the bottom of the first about three feet to the left of the Left Field foul pole. He also hit a ball in the 8th(with runners on) about 6 inches foul down the first base line just over the bag. He was close, very close to two hits on those two plays. He's close. He's 10 times the offensive player Janish is. And I like Janish, he's just a defensive SS.


Great win for the Bats, btw. Was a great night to be at the ballpark:thumbup:

smoke6
07-06-2011, 11:47 PM
Was at the Bats game tonight. First time I've been. Yes, Cozart looked clueless at the plate, but still an upgrade over Janish at this point IMO. Yonder played a good LF, I'd like to see him up soon. Fred Lewis doesn't do it for me. Good time overall. Louisville is a good time.

BakoTheTako
07-06-2011, 11:55 PM
Cozart


Date AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO
Jun 15 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 16 4 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1
Jun 17 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jun 18 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
Jun 19 4 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 2
Jun 20 5 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jun 21 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 23 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 24 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 25 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 26 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Jun 27 4 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jun 28 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
Jun 29 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0
Jun 30 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1
Jul 01 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jul 02 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 04 5 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 2
Jul 05 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Jul 06 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2

Totals 85 8 21 4 1 1 5 7 17

.247/.329/.353 - .682 OPS


Paul Janish

Month of May

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO
71 6 10 2 0 0 5 2 9

.141/.169/.173 - .342 OPS



Just sayin

GOYA
07-07-2011, 12:10 AM
Cozart hit the first pitch thrown in the bottom of the first about three feet to the left of the Left Field foul pole. He also hit a ball in the 8th(with runners on) about 6 inches foul down the first base line just over the bag. He was close, very close to two hits on those two plays. He's close.

He is close but he's not there.

What were the end results of both of those ABs?

I believe Cozart will be a huge upgrade over Janish soon. But not right now.

And I made a mistake in my chart. Cozart struck out 3 times tonight.

HalKing
07-07-2011, 12:14 AM
Cozart is a major upgrade over Janish TODAY.


and as a previous poster pointed out, Alonso looked very comfortable in LF tonight. Made some very instinctive plays in the field. He's obviously getting more comfortable out there.

Superdude
07-07-2011, 12:16 AM
He is close but he's not there.

What were the end results of both of those ABs?

I believe Cozart will be a huge upgrade over Janish soon. But not right now.

And I made a mistake in my chart. Cozart struck out 3 times tonight.

He's at the very least an upgrade though. Very possibly a huge one unless there's more to this recent skid than just the usual ebb and flow of a baseball season.

mace
07-07-2011, 12:36 AM
The line tonight for Justice French of the AZL Reds, the 25th-round draft choice out of Mercer: 6 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 12 K. They lead 9-1 in the ninth.

Brandon Dailey is 3/5 (.450) and stole home in a double steal.

mace
07-07-2011, 12:40 AM
Billings won 13-9. Nick O'Shea (3/6, 2 doubles, .308) is looking interesting. He's the 24th-rounder out of Minnesota, listed as a first baseman. But he has been catching for Billings. Big guy (6-3, 220). Anybody have a scouting report on his catching?

mace
07-07-2011, 12:52 AM
Brennan May, who I believe was signed out of independent ball, has six RBIs tonight for the AZL Reds, and he didn't start the game. After an earlier HR, he just doubled with the bases loaded on two-out walks. It's 12-1.

mace
07-07-2011, 12:54 AM
Bakersfield lost 7-6. Stephen Hunt (.330) had two doubles.

mace
07-07-2011, 12:56 AM
Whoa. And now SS Juan Perez (.367) has added a ninth-inning grand slam and the AZL Reds lead 17-1 . . . And that's the final . . . Billings and AZL both had 8-run innings tonight.

mace
07-07-2011, 01:01 AM
Amid all the slugging tonight (even the VSL Reds won 9-3), there was this line (today) from 19-year-old (almost 20) lefty Wandy Peralta, the starter for the DSL Reds, who won 6-0:
5 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 5 BB. 8 K.
Two relievers completed the 1-hit shutout.

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 09:14 AM
The rally included a HR by Torreyes.

And he's going to be significantly stronger in 3-4 years.

There is no reason to worry about Ronald Torreyes being a legitimate prospect to start in the big leagues.

cumberlandreds
07-07-2011, 09:26 AM
Cozart is a major upgrade over Janish TODAY.


and as a previous poster pointed out, Alonso looked very comfortable in LF tonight. Made some very instinctive plays in the field. He's obviously getting more comfortable out there.

Thank you for your eyewitness accounts. They go a long way with me.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 09:41 AM
And he's going to be significantly stronger in 3-4 years.

There is no reason to worry about Ronald Torreyes being a legitimate prospect to start in the big leagues.

I don't know why there is an assumption that he is going to be significantly stronger in a few more years. If he were 6'2" and 165 pounds, sure. He would have room to add a lot of muscle. But he is about 5'7" and 130 pounds. Not a ton of room to add on to.

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 09:49 AM
I don't know why there is an assumption that he is going to be significantly stronger in a few more years. If he were 6'2" and 165 pounds, sure. He would have room to add a lot of muscle. But he is about 5'7" and 130 pounds. Not a ton of room to add on to.

Kids grow up. He'll have access to advanced strength and conditioning coaching, too. While we could debate what it means to gain "significant" strength, I think there's no doubt he'll put on at least 20 pounds of mostly muscle. He can hit the ball out of the park now. He'll have no real trouble finding that short leftfield deck in GAB from time to time a few years from now.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 10:32 AM
Kids grow up. He'll have access to advanced strength and conditioning coaching, too. While we could debate what it means to gain "significant" strength, I think there's no doubt he'll put on at least 20 pounds of mostly muscle. He can hit the ball out of the park now. He'll have no real trouble finding that short leftfield deck in GAB from time to time a few years from now.

20 pounds of muscle is a LOT to add for someone of his size. If Billy Hamilton put on 20 pounds of muscle, I would be willing to say ok. But Hamilton is also 6 inches taller. Torreyes simply is a very short, very frail framed guy. I have argued this point against Dee Gordon for 3 years now and he hasn't added any weight. He is a similar type of frame.

And lets temper the "he can hit the ball out of the park now so he will have no trouble doing so in the future" talk. I have seen Paul Janish hit HR's too. That doesn't mean he isn't having trouble doing it with that short left field deck in GABP. The guy has 1 HR this year (Torreyes). He has a range of power that could be anywhere from none to Jimmy Rollins. We simply don't know at this point.

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 10:39 AM
He has a range of power that could be anywhere from none to Jimmy Rollins. We simply don't know at this point.

I think we know more than you think. RT has unquestioned EBH power/hittability at his current size and age. He's going to add strength. That's simply a fact. He won't slug a big number, but he won't "get the bat knocked out of his hands," as some seem to think. Doug, you've contended Torreyes' size is a major concern. I'm saying it isn't. Let's leave it at that.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 10:43 AM
I think we know more than you think. RT has unquestioned EBH power/hittability at his current size and age. He's going to add strength. That's simply a fact. He won't slug a big number, but he won't "get the bat knocked out of his hands," as some seem to think. Doug, you've contended Torreyes' size is a major concern. I'm saying it isn't. Let's leave it at that.

Who are these "we" people that you are referring to?

As for him adding some strength, sure. But I don't think he is going to add anywhere near the kind of muscle mass that you seem to think he will. I also don't seem to think that anyone expects him to have the bats knocked out of his hands.

I don't think his size is a major concern, or even a concern to really be worried about. I just don't think the guy is going to get all that measurably bigger than he is right now because of the frame that he has.

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 11:01 AM
Who are these "we" people that you are referring to?

All of us who are paying attention.


As for him adding some strength, sure. But I don't think he is going to add anywhere near the kind of muscle mass that you seem to think he will. I also don't seem to think that anyone expects him to have the bats knocked out of his hands.

We'll see. I'm pretty certain RT will be around 160 by the time he's 23-24.

Hillsdale87
07-07-2011, 11:08 AM
20 pounds of muscle is a LOT to add for someone of his size. If Billy Hamilton put on 20 pounds of muscle, I would be willing to say ok. But Hamilton is also 6 inches taller. Torreyes simply is a very short, very frail framed guy. I have argued this point against Dee Gordon for 3 years now and he hasn't added any weight. He is a similar type of frame.


When I was 18, I was 5'8" 125 lbs. 6 years later I am 150 lbs with the same body fat, and I am by no means a big guy. Still pretty small actually. At 5'7" it's highly unlikely that Torreyes every becomes a power hitter, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect him to put on 15-20 pounds with a good training program.

OnBaseMachine
07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
From Kevin Goldstein:

•Tony Cingrani, LHP, Reds (Rookie-level Billings): 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K. Third-round pick has eight whiffs over four shutout innings in first two pro games; pro body and big velocity from the left side.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14462

bellhead
07-07-2011, 12:51 PM
When I was 18, I was 5'8" 125 lbs. 6 years later I am 150 lbs with the same body fat, and I am by no means a big guy. Still pretty small actually. At 5'7" it's highly unlikely that Torreyes every becomes a power hitter, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect him to put on 15-20 pounds with a good training program.

A good training program of lifting, stretching, and eating right will add 1 to 2 lbs of muscle every month. In two years he should be able to add 30 lbs of muscle to his body with no problem. After that it will become harder, this is science that has been proven time and again in the sports.

Personally based upon the weight training and lifting I have done over the years I could see him adding 40 lbs of muscle within 4 years. Which means he will be at the bigs around 175 to 180lbs.

camisadelgolf
07-07-2011, 01:35 PM
A good training program of lifting, stretching, and eating right will add 1 to 2 lbs of muscle every month. In two years he should be able to add 30 lbs of muscle to his body with no problem. After that it will become harder, this is science that has been proven time and again in the sports.

Personally based upon the weight training and lifting I have done over the years I could see him adding 40 lbs of muscle within 4 years. Which means he will be at the bigs around 175 to 180lbs.
Awesome. In less than six years, he can double his body weight and be made up of 70% muscle. But seriously, I just don't see it being feasible for Torreyes to pack on that much body weight while maintaining the maneuverability to play a quality second base.

Let's say he's at 45% muscle right now. That's 63 pounds of muscle. If he were to add 40 pounds of muscle, he would be over 57% muscle mass. Can you really see that happening without much problem?

bubbachunk
07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
No way he gets past 160, he is just too short for it.

texasdave
07-07-2011, 01:57 PM
No way he gets past 160, he is just too short for it.

5'7" 160 LBS. - Ironically that is what Joe Morgan is listed at in baseball-reference.com.

partisan
07-07-2011, 02:23 PM
I don't give a damn how big he is as long as he keeps handling the bat like this.

HBP
07-07-2011, 02:27 PM
5'7" people (http://www.jaguars.com/Team/Player.aspx?id=2645) can weigh quite a bit

bubbachunk
07-07-2011, 02:33 PM
I think it has been confirmed that 5'7" is incredibly generous for Torreyes and is more likely in the 5'5"-5'6" range.

Also Jones Drew is a unique dude for sure but I also doubt that he has the flexibility that major league second basemen would need to stay fluid.

mdccclxix
07-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Tough to throw a 5'5" guy a strike, I'll tell you that.

bellhead
07-07-2011, 03:20 PM
Awesome. In less than six years, he can double his body weight and be made up of 70% muscle. But seriously, I just don't see it being feasible for Torreyes to pack on that much body weight while maintaining the maneuverability to play a quality second base.

Let's say he's at 45% muscle right now. That's 63 pounds of muscle. If he were to add 40 pounds of muscle, he would be over 57% muscle mass. Can you really see that happening without much problem?


Where did I say he was going to double his playing weight? I said he can add 1 to 2 lbs of muscle a month. He is 18 years old weighing closely 140 to 150 lbs.

I think he compares very favoritely to a defensive back or wide receiver freshman college football player. Build wise they are very similar. Between their freshman and softmore years they will gain between 15 to 20 lbs. They will work out and add lean muscle mass. Remember muscle weighs more than fat. For the part where you talk about agility and such. Most defensive backs are judged on the cone drill time which measure the ability to turn and explode while covering a DB vs. a 40 time when they are recruited both at college and then later at the nfl level. They all improve from high school to college so I see this as a non issue.

Myself I have a small frame build with slender bones. I stand 5'10 and weigh about 170 to 175 and have a 31inch waist at age 40. I repped 185X10 for 4 sets the other night in the gym on bench, this after a rotator cuff surgery several years ago which is why I don't go heavier. At one time I could bench over 245lbs before the surgery. When I graduated high school I weighed roughly 130lbs all of my weigh gain happened through lifting weights and eating correctly. It's not rocket science.

bellhead
07-07-2011, 03:22 PM
Tough to throw a 5'5" guy a strike, I'll tell you that.

My thoughts exactly...Also the smaller strike zone is right in his power alley.

camisadelgolf
07-07-2011, 03:52 PM
Where did I say he was going to double his playing weight? I said he can add 1 to 2 lbs of muscle a month. He is 18 years old weighing closely 140 to 150 lbs.
No one accused you of that. I was clearly joking, which is why I said "but seriously . . . "
I just don't see a scrawny 5'6" 18-year-old ballooning up to 180-90 pounds without there being a significant loss in his ability to move across the diamond. I understand scouts' skepticism, but he only needs enough power to get the ball out of the infield. To your point, someone of his size should have no problem getting to that point. However, I don't think he'll ever become someone who can hit 15+ homeruns year-in and year-out.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 04:15 PM
All of us who are paying attention.


Paying attention to what? Body sizes of pro athletes? The amount of weight that guys who are very frail framed can add?

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 04:22 PM
Paying attention to what? Body sizes of pro athletes? The amount of weight that guys who are very frail framed can add?

To Torreyes' performance, starting last year.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 04:24 PM
Where did I say he was going to double his playing weight? I said he can add 1 to 2 lbs of muscle a month. He is 18 years old weighing closely 140 to 150 lbs.

I think he compares very favoritely to a defensive back or wide receiver freshman college football player. Build wise they are very similar. Between their freshman and softmore years they will gain between 15 to 20 lbs. They will work out and add lean muscle mass.


Ronald Torreyes is NOT comparable to a college wide receiver who puts on 15-20 pounds of muscle. Billy Hamilton is. Hamilton is 6'1" and 160 pounds. Torreyes is 5'6" or 5'7" and 140 pounds. There is a huge difference there.

The guy is built like a 13 year old boy. Just look at pictures of him, he looks like one of the coaches teenage sons that they let take BP.

http://fourseamimages.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=49&_bqH=eJwzKAwxjkxxs8grKgv08fYzSArUNTEPydL1Doy0MjSxt DI1sDI0AAIrz3iXYGfbovy8xJwU7ZL8oqLUytRiNc_40GDXoHh PF9tQkKook0JTr4yoitzQSLV4R.cQ2.LUxKLkDAAIqR88&GI_ID=

Maybe I am just crazy, but I can't see him adding 20 or more pounds of muscle to that frame. It is simply too small.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 04:25 PM
To Torreyes' performance, starting last year.

His performance has nothing at all to do with how much size he is going to gain does it?

And I can promise you, I have been paying plenty of attention to Torreyes.

lollipopcurve
07-07-2011, 04:53 PM
His performance has nothing at all to do with how much size he is going to gain does it?

No, of course not. But it does tell us that he gets a whole lot out of a little. As he gets bigger, his power is only going to increase.


And I can promise you, I have been paying plenty of attention to Torreyes.

Of course. But you've been a real voice of caution. Nothing wrong with that. In the end, you may turn out to be right about him. Personally, I think the evidence was there straight out of the VSL that this is a kid with some truly elite hitting skills. Combine that with what we've heard about his defense, and you've got a high-grade middle infield prospect.

dougdirt
07-07-2011, 05:11 PM
No, of course not. But it does tell us that he gets a whole lot out of a little. As he gets bigger, his power is only going to increase.



Of course. But you've been a real voice of caution. Nothing wrong with that. In the end, you may turn out to be right about him. Personally, I think the evidence was there straight out of the VSL that this is a kid with some truly elite hitting skills. Combine that with what we've heard about his defense, and you've got a high-grade middle infield prospect.

I won't argue that his hitting skills aren't elite. They absolutely are. It is his actual power that we are having a disagreement on, or at least his future power.

bubbachunk
07-07-2011, 07:33 PM
He has wide enough shoulders and a lack of glute muscles that make me think he could put on 15-20 lbs without a ton of trouble

He just looks like he has yet to mature, we should probably wait until he hits 21-22 before we worry much about him not being able to put on weight

bellhead
07-08-2011, 08:07 AM
I won't argue that his hitting skills aren't elite. They absolutely are. It is his actual power that we are having a disagreement on, or at least his future power.

Also add in the fact that he has already stolen 5 bases in 14 games and he's on pace for a 50+ season.

Right now Dayton has a great 1-2 with Hamilton then Torreyes, all Hamilton has to do is get on and it's a great hit and run situation. If Hamilton keeps developing and so does Torreyes those two are going to tear up the minors over the next couple of years as 1-2 hitters.