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Redlegs
07-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Interesting article this month in Cincinnati Magazine regarding the Reds attendence. The article mentions some eye opening facts in regards to the city whereas it basically states Cincinnati has never been a big attendence town with the exception of a few years here and there and the decade of the 70's. Also went on to state the difference in attendence between a town like St. Louis and ours results in about 50M dollars of revenue per year. Wow!

Your thoughts?

reds1869
07-07-2011, 11:14 AM
The article was interesting and I largely agree with it. It isn't just the Reds, it is sports and entertainment in general. Concert promoters have a hard time filling their venues even when top national acts are in town, and the only local team that consistently plays to capacity crowds is Xavier.

westofyou
07-07-2011, 11:18 AM
If the world comes to an end, I want to be in Cincinnati. Everything comes there ten years later.

Mark Twain

All I have to say is the writer is correct, and must read this boards archives.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-07-2011, 11:26 AM
The article was interesting and I largely agree with it. It isn't just the Reds, it is sports and entertainment in general. Concert promoters have a hard time filling their venues even when top national acts are in town, and the only local team that consistently plays to capacity crowds is Xavier.

Possibly because the Cintas Center is relatively small (10,250) and a lot of the student body/fan base isn't from Greater Cincinnati, so maybe they are exempt from the lackadaisical local attendance phenomenon.

But it does seem like the only thing that consistently sells out, and the only thing it is genuinely tough to get tickets to, is Reds' Opening Day. The Bengals don't sell out without help from a big-time visiting team (Steelers, Packers, Cowboys), the Reds rarely sell out without help from a big-time visiting team (Cubs, Cards, Yanks), concerts don't sell out. It doesn't make sense ... Just up the road in Dayton, the Dragons are on the sellout streak and the Flyers never get crowds under 12,500; in Columbus OSU football always sells out; in Lexington and Louisville there are always sellouts for UK and U of L. But not here ...

The Bengals needed all kinds of last-minute extensions and gimmicks to sell out almost every game during their 10-6 playoff year in 2009. Phish didn't sell out Riverbend this summer despite selling out virtually everywhere else. And tickets still remain for Paul McCartney in August at GABP and even Jimmy Buffett later this summer.

Sea Ray
07-07-2011, 11:38 AM
I think Reds attendance is right about where you'd expect it to be. They have a mediocre team in a mediocre market, thus they are 16th out of 32 teams in avg attendance. All the teams above them are in larger markets with the possible exception of Minnesota and Milwaukee--both still enjoying the honeymoon of a new stadium. However I did find it interesting that the Reds road attendance is #2, Yankees were #1

As for the Bengals I'd say this town has supported them to a fault. There were several yrs in a row where no games were blacked out. Considering how Mike Brown has treated this town in the past 20 yrs it's amazing they have the crowds they do. Put together 4 yrs of .500 or better and there'll be a waiting list for Bengal tickets

mdccclxix
07-07-2011, 12:17 PM
I think Reds attendance is right about where you'd expect it to be. They have a mediocre team in a mediocre market, thus they are 16th out of 32 teams in avg attendance. All the teams above them are in larger markets with the possible exception of Minnesota and Milwaukee--both still enjoying the honeymoon of a new stadium. However I did find it interesting that the Reds road attendance is #2, Yankees were #1

As for the Bengals I'd say this town has supported them to a fault. There were several yrs in a row where no games were blacked out. Considering how Mike Brown has treated this town in the past 20 yrs it's amazing they have the crowds they do. Put together 4 yrs of .500 or better and there'll be a waiting list for Bengal tickets

I agree. Similarly, if you look at the Reds, they haven't sustained success for a period of time like the Cardinals have. Keep winning over the next 3-4 years and throw in a NLCS or WS appearance and the attendance figure will probably climb near 35k would be my guess.

OldXOhio
07-07-2011, 12:18 PM
All the teams above them are in larger markets with the possible exception of Minnesota and Milwaukee--both still enjoying the honeymoon of a new stadium.



Hear ya on Minn, but Miller Park came into existence before the GABP and I'd say the honeymoon with our new park has been over for some time. I think the Brewers fans simply do a good job of supporting what has been a competitive team now for several years. I don't know that it's anything more than something akin to the Cardinals' fans mantra of "it's what we do".

Chip R
07-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Hear ya on Minn, but Miller Park came into existence before the GABP and I'd say the honeymoon with our new park has been over for some time. I think the Brewers fans simply do a good job of supporting what has been a competitive team now for several years. I don't know that it's anything more than something akin to the Cardinals' fans mantra of "it's what we do".

MIL has always had good baseball fans. When they moved the Braves there in the 50s they drew around 2.5M when 1M was outstanding. They supported them until it was clear they were going to move to ATL. When the Brewers were in the AL they were usually pretty respectable and about on a par with the Reds. They have drawn at least 2.7M 5 times and the Reds haven't ever touched that figure. Having a retractable roof - especially in April, May and September - helps but I believe even if the Reds had a retractable roof, they would draw about what they do now.

mdccclxix
07-07-2011, 12:37 PM
MIL has always had good baseball fans. When they moved the Braves there in the 50s they drew around 2.5M when 1M was outstanding. They supported them until it was clear they were going to move to ATL. When the Brewers were in the AL they were usually pretty respectable and about on a par with the Reds. They have drawn at least 2.7M 5 times and the Reds haven't ever touched that figure. Having a retractable roof - especially in April, May and September - helps but I believe even if the Reds had a retractable roof, they would draw about what they do now.

I wish we had the luxury of finding out. Too bad.

Redsfaithful
07-07-2011, 04:25 PM
I would have liked to have seen attendance at Broadway Commons. Cincinnati kind of has a blind spot with putting everything on the river.

I do think now that the rest of the riverfront development is filling in that it will have a positive effect on attendance.

Brutus
07-07-2011, 04:57 PM
It should be noted that Cincinnati is the second smallest TV market, as designated by Nielsen media's boundaries (only Milwaukee is smaller).

But in terms of actual people within a 30-mile radius of the ballpark, Cincinnati is the smallest market in baseball by a great deal.

What this means is that fewer people are within striking distance to go to a baseball game on a given weeknight. So that the Reds aren't a huge attendance town isn't so much an indictment on the city or the fanbase as much as it is a consequence of the geographical makeup of the market and how people are more spread out than some markets are.

This is why they draw well for weekend games but not so much during weeknight games during the school year. Families with kids can't make 1 or 2-hour drives on a school night or work night.

Cooper
07-07-2011, 11:55 PM
Redsfaithful hit on the problem-that stadium is kinda ridiculous to get to. I've been there at least 100 times in the last 20 years- heck, probably more than that...it's brutal to try to get there- it just is. It's as if they set out to put a stadium at the end of a Rube Goldberg production.

People from Cincy defend it and tell me how easy it is--it ain't. It's absolutely brutal and that greatly effects the overall experience. People do not want to have to jump thru that many hoops to get to a ballgame.

I've been to 8 or 9 other mlb ballparks and 10-12 minor league parks. Getting to a ball game in cincy is still the worst. Ask someone from outside the cincinnatia area. Everybody has a horror story about getting lost or almost killed getting to that park.

oregonred
07-07-2011, 11:59 PM
The franchise has had three postseason appearances since 1980 and one of those was after the lost season of 1994. It's amazing that they have drawn 2M as many times as they have since the early 90s especially given the small size of the local market for weekday games and the lack of anything interesting in the area near GABP.

The fanbase had to endure the Schott and Lindner eras and the overall negative stench of professional sports in the city from the late 80's to the present thanks to Mike Brown.

They haven't had two clean years of serious back to back contention since the the late 70's (94/95 doesn't count). Yes, there were lots of 2nd place finishes in the late 80's, but the Reds were never were really in serious playoff contention over the last six weeks in any of the '85-'89 seasons.

Even the glow of the WS championship of 1990 was quickly lost with a dismal 1991 and the subsequent departure of Sweet Lou for greener pastures after '92. Then the Indians soon hit the jackpot with Jacob's Field and a great young team to erode the fan support in Central Ohio.

The arrival of Griffey after the great 1999 run had all the potential of 3M attendance seasons (and they would have gotten there in 2000 with a seriously contending team). But the buzz of 2000 quickly faded and the halo of KGJ's arrival was lost in the injuries/unfair piling on by the local press.

Finally 2011 looked so full of promise for back to back playoff runs. Toss in a seriously underacheiving 44-45 record and overall uninspiring play -- just in time to derail another nice rise in the attendance trend. And low and behold, the Indians cleaned their clocks in the season series and are sitting in first place...

mdccclxix
07-08-2011, 12:18 AM
The franchise has had three postseason appearances since 1980 and one of those was after the lost season of 1994. It's amazing that they have drawn 2M as many times as they have since the early 90s especially given the small size of the local market for weekday games and the lack of anything interesting in the area near GABP.

The fanbase had to endure the Schott and Lindner eras and the overall negative stench of professional sports in the city from the late 80's to the present thanks to Mike Brown.

They haven't had two clean years of serious back to back contention since the the late 70's (94/95 doesn't count). Yes, there were lots of 2nd place finishes in the late 80's, but the Reds were never were really in serious playoff contention over the last six weeks in any of the '85-'89 seasons.

Even the glow of the WS championship of 1990 was quickly lost with a dismal 1991 and the subsequent departure of Sweet Lou for greener pastures after '92. Then the Indians soon hit the jackpot with Jacob's Field and a great young team to erode the fan support in Central Ohio.

The arrival of Griffey after the great 1999 run had all the potential of 3M attendance seasons (and they would have gotten there in 2000 with a seriously contending team). But the buzz of 2000 quickly faded and the halo of KGJ's arrival was lost in the injuries/unfair piling on by the local press.

Finally 2011 looked so full of promise for back to back playoff runs. Toss in a seriously underacheiving 44-45 record and overall uninspiring play -- just in time to derail another nice rise in the attendance trend. And low and behold, the Indians cleaned their clocks in the season series and are sitting in first place...

my thoughts exactly. :beerme:

MikeS21
07-09-2011, 05:59 PM
But facts are facts, and the Reds have less people to draw from than do most other teams. As Brutus pointed out:

What this means is that fewer people are within striking distance to go to a baseball game on a given weeknight. So that the Reds aren't a huge attendance town isn't so much an indictment on the city or the fanbase as much as it is a consequence of the geographical makeup of the market and how people are more spread out than some markets are.

This is why they draw well for weekend games but not so much during weeknight games during the school year. Families with kids can't make 1 or 2-hour drives on a school night or work night.
I think the age of the population plays a part. Cincinnati is an older population age-wise, and a great number of local folks quite simply, aren't going to be out and about past 9:00 PM. Even the traditional 11:00 PM newscasts are losing viewers, opting for the 10:00 PM news.

Reds Freak
07-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Redsfaithful hit on the problem-that stadium is kinda ridiculous to get to. I've been there at least 100 times in the last 20 years- heck, probably more than that...it's brutal to try to get there- it just is. It's as if they set out to put a stadium at the end of a Rube Goldberg production.

People from Cincy defend it and tell me how easy it is--it ain't. It's absolutely brutal and that greatly effects the overall experience. People do not want to have to jump thru that many hoops to get to a ballgame.

I've been to 8 or 9 other mlb ballparks and 10-12 minor league parks. Getting to a ball game in cincy is still the worst. Ask someone from outside the cincinnatia area. Everybody has a horror story about getting lost or almost killed getting to that park.

I'm not sure I understand this. I've just never heard that before. It's better than the stadium being surrounded by acres of parking lots.

cincinnati chili
07-10-2011, 03:59 AM
Redsfaithful hit on the problem-that stadium is kinda ridiculous to get to. I've been there at least 100 times in the last 20 years- heck, probably more than that...it's brutal to try to get there- it just is. It's as if they set out to put a stadium at the end of a Rube Goldberg production.

People from Cincy defend it and tell me how easy it is--it ain't. It's absolutely brutal and that greatly effects the overall experience. People do not want to have to jump thru that many hoops to get to a ballgame.

I've been to 8 or 9 other mlb ballparks and 10-12 minor league parks. Getting to a ball game in cincy is still the worst. Ask someone from outside the cincinnatia area. Everybody has a horror story about getting lost or almost killed getting to that park.

I don't remember ever disagreeing with you about anything on this board. But this is an exception. I think I've been to about 50% of the MLB parks, and find the one in Cincy to be about the easiest to drive to. I try to take the subway to games in cities that have them, but if I have to drive, I'd much prefer driving to the vicinity of GAB than driving to Atlanta, Boston, either NY park, Wrigley, St. Louis, Philly, Seattle, Detroit, or Toronto.

I find it no more difficult than driving to the park in Denver, St. Pete, Kansas City, or Pittsburgh.

It's too bad there's a lot less to do around the park befpre/after the game than most of these cities, but I hear that is changing - if so, good for Cincinnati.