PDA

View Full Version : Volquez now a center piece...



nemesis
07-08-2011, 10:50 AM
Has to be said. Now that he is in his second tour with the Bats, he will not be back with the big club unless its an emergency. Willis and Wood both have jumped him on the pecking order. At this point he can become a very valuible trade piece in aquiring a certain SS or a upgrade in the rotation. (I leave out LF because 23 HR and 76 RBI from the current platoon combined, is a steal for the 3 Million they are paying for it) ... Now with a young pitcher with 2 years of control left, A legit 1B prospect, and some very nice parts, there isn't a talent they shouldn't be able to aquire or a deal they cannot trump. The trick is finding a GM who overvalues Volquez to maximize the return. CoughKennyWillamsCough...

Thoughts?

Unassisted
07-08-2011, 10:57 AM
As Marty said on the broadcast last night, I doubt he'll ever be back with the Reds at the MLB level again. I can't imagine that any trading partner will overvalue Volquez right now. As of today, he's a throw-in, rather than a centerpiece.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-08-2011, 10:58 AM
Just don't let the Cards ever get their hands on him.

nemesis
07-08-2011, 11:07 AM
Just don't let the Cards ever get their hands on him.

He'd be Doc Gooden, pre 1990.

nemesis
07-08-2011, 11:12 AM
As Marty said on the broadcast last night, I doubt he'll ever be back with the Reds at the MLB level again. I can't imagine that any trading partner will overvalue Volquez right now. As of today, he's a throw-in, rather than a centerpiece.

Disagree. Young power arms that have won 17 games in a season are rare commodities. Any GM can look and see he will be on the cheap for a couple more years. Probably sign a LTC if he has a ok year next year with the mistake he made over the winter costing him Millions. I am certain some GM somewhere will get the fever, thinking if their staff can get their hands on him they could fix him. Teams on the bottom need to take risks like Volquez in the hopes of catching Lighting in a bottle.

Slyder
07-08-2011, 11:17 AM
You're not going to get anything substantial for him now. Yes, teams need to take risks like him but they aren't going to take that risk if it requires substantial cost in order to acquire him. Like Unassisted said, Volquez is a final piece/throw in right now.

Sea Ray
07-08-2011, 11:21 AM
I disagree that he's necessarily done as a Red but it bodes well for the team if he is because that means Wood and Willis are doing well. But if they bomb at the ML level as well then Volquez could easily be back

cumberlandreds
07-08-2011, 11:25 AM
As Marty said on the broadcast last night, I doubt he'll ever be back with the Reds at the MLB level again. I can't imagine that any trading partner will overvalue Volquez right now. As of today, he's a throw-in, rather than a centerpiece.

Agree with you and Marty. This is the 2nd team for Volquez to get a poor rating from. Teams will be much more cautious in trying to trade for him. He will have be a throw in for someone to take him. Marty is entirely correct on this one. Unless the Reds have a bunch of major injuries to the staff in the near future he will never be back. Just reading between the lines of things it seems Dusty and Jocketty have had it with him. He keeps repeating the same mistakes time after time. You just can't have that on the MLB level.

nemesis
07-08-2011, 11:35 AM
Ah. Just don't see it. If guys like Alex Rios and Vernon Wells with Multi-Million dollar contracts can be moved for real MLB talent, a guy like Volquez who is a pitcher with a huge upside arm a low upside head, and about 2 and a half years of control for roughly 5 to 7 Million if he performs ok is alot more fluid as far as teams willing to bid on him. A package of Him, Cozart, Heisey, Boxberger and parts, should get you Reyes and Beltran.

Reds1
07-08-2011, 11:41 AM
I think I was one of those guys who overvalued our rotation. I never dreamed a 5+ ERA. I know we've had some injuries, but we really have 1 complete starter right now that gives you innings and low ERA. I am hopeful it will improve. I do predict Volquez will easily be back and starting at some point this year. I think he was just sent down really to give DW a shot and another pitcher up here after the long extra innings with the AS break coming up. The team has no spark and just can't win 2 games in a row. But I'm optimistic.

Johnny Footstool
07-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Volquez is not done. His arm is too live. If nothing else, he'll move to the bullpen.

traderumor
07-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Can't see another team viewing Volquez as anything more than a reclamation project in value. Those are obtained for some longshot minor leaguer after a DFA these days.

PuffyPig
07-08-2011, 11:49 AM
As Marty said on the broadcast last night, I doubt he'll ever be back with the Reds at the MLB level again.


I would bet Marty will be wrong.

traderumor
07-08-2011, 11:50 AM
I would bet Marty will be wrong.While that may be true, he is going to have to go down to AAA and really be impressive to get another chance with the Reds. Odds of that happening? I might betcha :lol:

Danny Serafini
07-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Dealing Volquez right now is the very definition of selling low. His trade value is close to zero at this point.

nemesis
07-08-2011, 12:19 PM
I am going to help people view this another way.

There is another 27 year old pitcher with a power arm who has had TJ Surgury.

He is 24 -30 by Win/Loss record over the last 2 years plus. This year he is 5-7 with a 5.06 ERA. He is out of options so... His team is stuck with him. I would guess he would be avalible in a couple weeks as well. I would bet my sizable paycheck, that at least 40% or more of this board would move at LEAST, Mesoraco for him.

It's Francisco Liriano.

You think Minnesota is gonna use him as a throw in to pick up a rental Player? Hardly.

PuffyPig
07-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I am going to help people view this another way.

There is another 27 year old pitcher with a power arm who has had TJ Surgury.

He is 24 -30 by Win/Loss record over the last 2 years plus. This year he is 5-7 with a 5.06 ERA. He is out of options so... His team is stuck with him. I would guess he would be avalible in a couple weeks as well. I would bet my sizable paycheck, that at least 40% or more of this board would move at LEAST, Mesoraco for him.

It's Francisco Liriano.

You think Minnesota is gonna use him as a throw in to pick up a rental Player? Hardly.

That is completely different.

He doesn't pitch for Cincinnati.

:D

Roy Tucker
07-08-2011, 12:59 PM
So, just what is the problem with Volquez? Besides giving up a lot of runs, that is.

Always Red
07-08-2011, 01:07 PM
Dealing Volquez right now is the very definition of selling low. His trade value is close to zero at this point.

To the Reds, it is.

But I'd bet there are 10 teams out there right now, salivating at his "stuff", and just knowing that they can bring out the best in him. Someone will take a chance and pay for it- an arm as good as his is always very enticing.

traderumor
07-08-2011, 01:09 PM
But, if we are talking about Volquez being a center piece, as in dead, already cut flowers sitting in the middle of the dinner table, we might be on to something. :D

MikeS21
07-08-2011, 01:19 PM
To the Reds, it is.

But I'd bet there are 10 teams out there right now, salivating at his "stuff", and just knowing that they can bring out the best in him. Someone will take a chance and pay for it- an arm as good as his is always very enticing.
True, there are always those in the "all he needs is a change of scenery" mentality. But, as someone mentioned earlier, why not try him as a a reliever for awhile? This first inning jinx stuff could work itself out and EV could make a decent closer.

bucksfan2
07-08-2011, 01:24 PM
So, just what is the problem with Volquez? Besides giving up a lot of runs, that is.

Doesn't throw strikes, walks too many batters, throws too many pitches, can't go late into games, etc. You want me to go on?

Benihana
07-08-2011, 01:38 PM
Volquez's trade value now is not too different from other fallen stars like Ian Snell, Zack Duke, and Rich Harden.

RedsManRick
07-08-2011, 01:38 PM
This is why I've wanted to trade him for awhile. Unfortunately, now I think his trade value has fallen to match his actual value. Which is to say, he's not a center piece guy.

Unfortunately, he's likely to be viewed as damaged goods -- a guy coming off surgery who can't find the plate. As far as I'm concerned, the surgery is irrelevant, this is who Volquez has always been. But the sheen is gone. Anybody who acquires him is going to view it as a reclamation project, not as a guy they can plug in immediately for help down the stretch.

I think you could use him to get a rental, say Volquez and Heisey for Beltran. But nobody is going to give you a long-term impact player and be touting to their fanbase that they landed Volquez.

reds44
07-08-2011, 01:40 PM
I really wish the Reds would look at moving him to the bullpen.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-08-2011, 01:59 PM
I don't want Volquez pitching for the Reds, but I don't want him pitching for anyone else either....

(other than Louisville....or Carolina....or Bakersfield....or Dayton.

OesterPoster
07-08-2011, 02:03 PM
And he's only 1 failed banned substance test from a 100 game suspension, which I would think lowers his trade value even further.

Roy Tucker
07-08-2011, 02:08 PM
I meant more what is the root cause of all that? Poor location? Bad mechanics? Bad pitch selection? Too predictable? Too easily shook? He seems to have the "stuff".

CrackerJack
07-08-2011, 02:22 PM
I meant more what is the root cause of all that? Poor location? Bad mechanics? Bad pitch selection? Too predictable? Too easily shook? He seems to have the "stuff".

Reminds me of Homer, both seem to get rattled/lose focus too easily and lack an approach from the stretch that can get them through certain innings/situations consistently. Both seem prone to injury.

Maybe the Reds' cut bait if they fall completely out of contention, if they get an offer they can't refuse, for either or both.

I think Marty's comment was a bit over-the-top though.

nemesis
07-08-2011, 02:22 PM
I meant more what is the root cause of all that? Poor location? Bad mechanics? Bad pitch selection? Too predictable? Too easily shook? He seems to have the "stuff".

My thoughts? Switching from a slider to a curveball. His Slider was nasty. Set up his Fastball which set up his change. I dunno you could call his curve an average pitch. So batters lay off the breaking stuff. Wait for something straight. His wildness comes.from trying to locate the straight stuff. He just doesn't have the mechanics, feel or mentality for it.

reds44
07-08-2011, 02:24 PM
I meant more what is the root cause of all that? Poor location? Bad mechanics? Bad pitch selection? Too predictable? Too easily shook? He seems to have the "stuff".
Mechanics that hit can't repeat which leads to poor location.

Normally a guy who struggles with his control can't repeat his mechanics. It's another reason why I'd like to see him pitch in the pen and always out of the stretch.

RedsManRick
07-08-2011, 02:42 PM
Mechanics that hit can't repeat which leads to poor location.

Normally a guy who struggles with his control can't repeat his mechanics. It's another reason why I'd like to see him pitch in the pen and always out of the stretch.

I agree with this. The stuff is still nasty -- as evidenced by the K rate. But he doesn't stay consistent with his mechanics. I would add that he rarely "gets in to a groove". He generally works slowly and seems to get rattled easily, which may be part of the reason he has trouble keeping consistent mechanics. When he gets guys on base, especially if he walks them, he loses focus. That makes him even more deliberate and the cycle continues. Maybe it's even a function of him over-thinking his mechanics after a walk. It's like a golfer who slices the ball and then in an attempt to fix it makes it even worse.

That would partially explain the first inning issues. If he doesn't find his mechanics quickly, he struggles to find them at all.

Cueto used to fall in to this trap as well, but seems to have gotten much tougher mentally and been able to maintain/regain his focus (and his mechanics) better.

bucksfan2
07-08-2011, 02:59 PM
I agree with this. The stuff is still nasty -- as evidenced by the K rate. But he doesn't stay consistent with his mechanics. I would add that he rarely "gets in to a groove". He generally works slowly and seems to get rattled easily, which may be part of the reason he has trouble keeping consistent mechanics. When he gets guys on base, especially if he walks them, he loses focus. That makes him even more deliberate and the cycle continues. Maybe it's even a function of him over-thinking his mechanics after a walk. It's like a golfer who slices the ball and then in an attempt to fix it makes it even worse.

That would partially explain the first inning issues. If he doesn't find his mechanics quickly, he struggles to find them at all.

Cueto used to fall in to this trap as well, but seems to have gotten much tougher mentally and been able to maintain/regain his focus (and his mechanics) better.

I pretty much agree. He has an awfully difficult time with his mechanics. But I also think he tries too hard to get swing and misses. He tries too hard to get hitters to chase pitches outside of the zone. When your not throwing strikes and don't have control hitters will lay off those pitches.

kaldaniels
07-08-2011, 03:09 PM
Good points Rick. Now Cueto has seemed to turn out alright. What would you/how long would you wait to see if EV can't turn things around in a similar manner?

reds44
07-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm not so sure the Cueto comparison is valid. Cueto came up at a very young age and has gotten better every single year he was in the majors. I think Cueto just went through a normal maturation process.

Volquez isn't young anymore.

bucksfan2
07-08-2011, 03:31 PM
I'm not so sure the Cueto comparison is valid. Cueto came up at a very young age and has gotten better every single year he was in the majors. I think Cueto just went through a normal maturation process.

Volquez isn't young anymore.

Wasn't Cueto also a strike thrower in the minors? I thought he came to the majors with control being one of his assets.

signalhome
07-08-2011, 03:36 PM
I believe Rick was talking about Cueto's struggles with men on base. In 2009 and 2010, Cueto was a much, much better pitcher with the bases empty, at least according to FIP/xFIP -- last year, Cueto's K/BB with the bases empty was almost double his K/BB with runners on. That's not good. This year, there has been a marked improvement in Cueto's ability to pitch with runners on base.

VR
07-08-2011, 03:41 PM
I didn't subscribe to EI this year....so haven't seen that many of his starts. The ones I have seen....it doesn't seem like he's using the change as much as he used to.

I just don't like the volatility. By the time you start counting on him.....it blows up in your face.

He's got value.....may need to be a project for project type trade that gives two players new environments.

reds44
07-08-2011, 03:46 PM
There's no doubt his change up has lost something, and I think that is one of the few things you can still blame on TJ. I just don't know if he'll ever get it back.

Big Klu
07-08-2011, 03:52 PM
Volquez is only two years younger than Mario Soto was when he lost it. Two years later, Mario was out of baseball.

REDREAD
07-08-2011, 04:10 PM
Marty is probably wrong.

Volquez will be in AAA longer this time, but he will get another chance.
If nothing else, they will bring him up when rosters expand to see if
he's learned anything from AAA. (why wouldn't they do this?)

What is he projected to make next year at this rate? Maybe 2 million at most?
That's worth taking a flyer on and bringing him to spring training.

I'm as frustrated with Volquez as anyone (other than Marty :lol: ) But Volquez will get at least one more chance this year, and the Reds will probably bring him back next year too.

CarolinaRedleg
07-08-2011, 04:23 PM
Volquez' decision to roll the dice and take a one-year deal is looking better and better. :beerme:

KronoRed
07-08-2011, 04:33 PM
So, just what is the problem with Volquez? Besides giving up a lot of runs, that is.

*looks at his numbers*

He is what he has always been, a project.

Rojo
07-08-2011, 04:39 PM
9k/9 this year. He's a lot of things but "done" isn't one of them.

cinreds21
07-08-2011, 04:39 PM
He's not gonna net you Felix Hernandez, but I could see him being a part of a lesser deal like JJ Hardy or something like that. I am for trading Volquez, because I just don't think there is a spot for him if everyone else continues to throw well.

Will M
07-08-2011, 05:01 PM
IMO a team at the bottom of the standing could trade for Volquez if they thought they could 'fix' him. the Reds, in theory, are contenders and can't afford to waste starts seeing if/when he turns it around.

klw
07-08-2011, 05:05 PM
IMO a team at the bottom of the standing could trade for Volquez if they thought they could 'fix' him. the Reds, in theory, are contenders and can't afford to waste starts seeing if/when he turns it around.

A good team could also trade for him and option him to AAA just like the Reds did.

Chip R
07-08-2011, 05:10 PM
Marty is probably wrong.

Volquez will be in AAA longer this time, but he will get another chance.
If nothing else, they will bring him up when rosters expand to see if
he's learned anything from AAA. (why wouldn't they do this?)

What is he projected to make next year at this rate? Maybe 2 million at most?
That's worth taking a flyer on and bringing him to spring training.

Yeah, at the least he'll be back up in September.

Since he's still under the Reds control for a few more years, he can stay in the organization. Hopefully he can get his pitching under control and become a trusted pitcher.


A good team could also trade for him and option him to AAA just like the Reds did.

This year. But this is his last option year and next year the Reds will have to keep him on the 25 man roster or risk losing him.

jojo
07-08-2011, 05:22 PM
The Reds should trade Volquez to the Ms.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-08-2011, 05:23 PM
I see no harm in keeping him stashed in AAA for the remainder of the season and then seeing if he can work through his problems by next spring.

If he can't figure it out by next spring then you deal (or DFA) him. He'd have a little less value than now if he doesn't get any better, but it's not like he's got much value at all right now. By keeping him, the Reds can only benefit. You deal him and watch him "figure" it out and he might come back to haunt you, especially if you're not getting anything special in return. It's not worth the risk.

Will M
07-08-2011, 05:49 PM
Volquez could dominate AAA yet I wouldn't have faith that he could do it here in the majors until he actually does it. So as long as the team is trying to win now I don't want them giving starts to him.

If his trade value is very low then there is no harm in keeping him in AAA (this year) in case he pitches well there & then someone gets hurt. I wouldn't offer him a 2012 contract unless he really showed signs of improvement in AAA.

If he actually could fetch something in trade then I am in favor of this. there seem to be a mix of opinions about Edinson here on the ORG. i am one of those who gave up on him months ago.

I have been in favor of the team trying to add a starter better than Cueto. if this could happen with the trade chips we have then we could have a rotation of...
1) new guy
2) Cueto
3) Leake
4) Arroyo if healthy/effective
5) Bailey if healthy/effective
6) Willis
7) Wood
8) Lecure if injury bugs hit too many starters

Thats still a lot of depth even if we traded Volquez. plus its 3 guys who are #3s or better plus Bailey & Wood (who I still have hopes for being better than a BOR guy)

IslandRed
07-08-2011, 05:57 PM
I see no harm in keeping him stashed in AAA for the remainder of the season and then seeing if he can work through his problems by next spring.

If he can't figure it out by next spring then you deal (or DFA) him.

I'm not sure he makes it to next spring if he doesn't get it together and pitch himself back into the club's plans. He's arbitration-eligible and the Reds may not care to go there if they don't really want him back. I figure they're going to do everything they can to trade him before they reach the day of deciding whether to non-tender or go to arbitration.

Griffey012
07-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Liriano, which brings me to my point of why Volquez should not be written off yet. Liriano's numbers in his first full season post TJ surgery:

5-13 W-L 5.80 ERA 29 G 24 GS 1.551 WHIP 9.7 H/9 1.4 HR/9 4.3 BB/9 8.0 K/9

2nd full season post TJ:

14-10 W-L 3.62 ERA 31 G 31 GS 1.263 WHIP 8.6 H/9 .4 HR/9 2.7 BB/9 9.4 K/9

His 2nd season numbers are a bit inflated due to a ridiculously low HR/9, but nonetheless he still put together a pretty good season. No reason Volquez cannot improve his control with extended time in AAA and come back late this season or next season and be a productive starter. And when I say improve his control I do not mean magically go from a 4BB/9 pitcher to a 2bb/9 pitcher.

Caveman Techie
07-08-2011, 08:12 PM
Since the Reds control Volquez for a few more years and he will be cheap, I could see them holding on to him to hope they can fix whatever is wrong.

Brutus
07-08-2011, 08:16 PM
I like the idea of reinventing him as a reliever, at this point. Let him work from the stretch in entirety to simplify his mechanics and see if he can become a dominant closer.

mth123
07-08-2011, 09:10 PM
TJ Guys usually don't regain effectiveness until 24 to 30 months after surgery. Volquez got back on the mound very quickly and has everyone looking for that return ahead of schedule. He may be done, but I think its way too soon to write him off. If you can get a good deal go for it, but if not, keep him around and see if time does its thing.

I wasn't expecting much from Volquez in 2011, but even though he came back last year way ahead of schedule, he's still really in that first lump taking year back from TJ. With his arm, I'd wait to see how he looks next year before just giving him away. Get good value? Then pull the trigger. If not, keep him stashed and on the mound at AAA.

cincrazy
07-08-2011, 09:16 PM
How many chances can this guy get? He's had one superb three month stretch in his ENTIRE career, and that's enough for him to keep getting chance after chance? I understand pitching is scarce, and I understand he has good "stuff." But I have no faith that he'll ever be able to harness it. Time for a change of scenery for both parties if you ask me.

Brutus
07-08-2011, 09:17 PM
TJ Guys usually don't regain effectiveness until 24 to 30 months after surgery. Volquez got back on the mound very quickly and has everyone looking for that return ahead of schedule. He may be done, but I think its way too soon to write him off. If you can get a good deal go for it, but if not, keep him around and see if time does its thing.

I wasn't expecting much from Volquez in 2011, but even though he came back last year way ahead of schedule, he's still really in that first lump taking year back from TJ. With his arm, I'd wait to see how he looks next year before just giving him away. Get good value? Then pull the trigger. If not, keep him stashed and on the mound at AAA.

Volquez' problems are not injury related. They are mechanical and coming from a lack of command -- something that was evident before he ever got injured.

People tend to forget his career walk rate before the injury was well over four batters per nine innings. I don't see the injury playing much of a part this year.

mth123
07-08-2011, 09:29 PM
Volquez' problems are not injury related. They are mechanical and coming from a lack of command -- something that was evident before he ever got injured.

People tend to forget his career walk rate before the injury was well over four batters per nine innings. I don't see the injury playing much of a part this year.

We'll see. When a guy has arm problems command is the first thing to go (before velocity and well before any pain shows up) and then those things improve in reverse order as healing and arm strength return. He doesn't need to be Greg Maddux, he just needs to get back to the level he's had success with in the past.

RedsManRick
07-08-2011, 09:58 PM
Good points Rick. Now Cueto has seemed to turn out alright. What would you/how long would you wait to see if EV can't turn things around in a similar manner?

I'm pretty much done with Volquez. Cueto is just 25, come up as a guy with plus control and has improved every year. Volquez is 28, has never demonstrated consistent control and isn't getting better.

I'd try him in the bullpen and see if letting him go 100% for 20 pitches makes a difference.

SunDeck
07-08-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm not a baseball genius, but I got a very bad feeling from Volquez's implosion in the NLDS last year. It just seemed to me like he was out of his head, unable to get himself under control in the most important game of his life. And if I remember correctly, his head was the problem at Texas. You can be a flake and play right field or first base, but you have to be under control to pitch and I question whether the guy has the mental make up to live up to the talent in his arm.

Always Red
07-08-2011, 11:57 PM
he was out of his head, unable to get himself under control

that describes it, IMO. :(

Phhhl
07-09-2011, 05:01 AM
There is no way this organization is giving up on Volquez. Not a chance. This may be his final wake up call, but his "morning" will last two more years at least.

cinreds21
07-09-2011, 05:06 AM
He'll be out of options next year. I doubt he'd get through. Maybe, if he drops off that much more between now and then.

GAC
07-09-2011, 05:24 AM
I meant more what is the root cause of all that? Poor location? Bad mechanics? Bad pitch selection? Too predictable? Too easily shook? He seems to have the "stuff".

Which, IMO, points to "it's in his head". I think he's a hyper emotional person who mentally allows himself to get rattled and it throws him off his game. He then starts to think too much, puts too much pressure on himself, and over corrects.

HokieRed
07-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Which, IMO, points to "it's in his head". I think he's a hyper emotional person who mentally allows himself to get rattled and it throws him off his game. He then starts to think too much, puts too much pressure on himself, and over corrects.

I think it has a lot more to do with the inconsistency of his release points. Apart from the first half of the first year he was here, he has been a pitcher who consistently gives up way more walks than is consistent with success. The problem isn't new, it's not solely attributable to the surgery, and he's not making any progress on it. I don't believe the Reds will give up on him; doing so would be unwise, as his trade value now is at probably its lowest point. This is why some of us advocated trading him earlier when he could still be made to appear to have some value--mostly in theoretical upside. So I expect to see him continue to work on his delivery and control in AAA and to see the club go ahead without considering him as part of the future. If he makes it back, or at least accrues some trade value, that's great, but I don't think anybody in the FO is counting on that any longer.

Will M
07-09-2011, 01:24 PM
I know that 'quality start' is a pretty inexact stat but here goes.

As a Red April 2008 through 6/20/08: 12 QS out of 16 total starts
The rest of 2008: 8/17
2009: 3/9
2010: 7/13
2011: 5/16

It shows what my memory recalls. EV was really good in his first 3 months as a Red. Then he was not so good. Even pre injury he was bad in the 2nd half of 2008. This is what some folks seem to forget. I keep hearing about how it takes time to come back from TJ surgery. Yet is time really what is going to get us the early 2008 EV? Or will time simply get us the late 2008 EV? Call me pessimistic but I think early 2008 was a looooong way away & that EV is unlikely to return to that level of success.

kpresidente
07-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Edinson Volquez as the new Dontrelle Willis?

HokieRed
07-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Edinson Volquez as the new Dontrelle Willis?

I prefer the new Dontrelle Willis himself to EV. Or I suppose I hope we have the old Dontrelle Willis. From ages 21-25, DW pitched 1022 innings or an average of 204 per year, with a K/W ratio of 2.20 and 3 W's per 9. EV hasn't pitched half that number of innings in his entire career and only once has he approached Willis's 5 yr. mark for K/W--not surprisingly, this was in EV's one good year of 2008 when he hit 2.22. Willis has, in short, been a much more valuable pitcher than Volquez so let's hope for the new Dontrelle or, as I said, the one from the first five years of his career.

WebScorpion
07-10-2011, 05:02 AM
It seems pretty simple to me. He goes to AAA, if he gets much better and we need a starter (injury, ineffectiveness, etc.) at the ML level, he returns. If he doesn't improve or we don't need a starter, he stays there. He's probably behind Wood in line to come back though, so it will be a long road. At this point I wouldn't trade him (his lowest value) unless he goes to another division and we get a really great return. I have doubts about him coming out of the bullpen. He is at his worst in the first inning he pitches, so we want to make every inning he pitches his first? :confused: I guess it's worth a shot if he never settles down as a starter, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

paulrichjr
07-10-2011, 12:38 PM
I imagine there is an agent somewhere that is crying over that lack of a signature on last winter's contract offer.

nemesis
07-10-2011, 01:14 PM
I imagine there is an agent somewhere that is crying over that lack of a signature on last winter's contract offer.

Volquez probably won't have the same agent next year since it was his agent who advised him against signing. This is why you should always take what's in front of you versus being greedy. Cost himself 12 or more Million.