PDA

View Full Version : Ubaldo Jimenez?



Newman4
07-10-2011, 12:17 AM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?

DocRed
07-10-2011, 12:19 AM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?

Good lord..why don't you just throw in Votto and Bruce for good measure?

The DARK
07-10-2011, 12:24 AM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?

Now that would be a coup if we could pull off a trade with them. I would be reluctant to give up Stubbs, as he's one of our few good options at CF, under team control for many years, and one of our best sources of power and steals... as frustrating as he can be, he's too essential to relinquish. I'd offer Volquez, Alonso, Francisco, Heisey (to be replaced by Sappelt), and Dorn as a throw-in.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2011, 04:25 AM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?

I like the thought of making a run at an ace, but that's giving up a ton. Still, I'd probably do it.

LegallyMinded
07-10-2011, 07:13 AM
I think the perception of how good Jiminez is was skewed by his outstanding first half last year. Over the past three seasons, his xFIP has been 3.59, 3.60 and 3.60. By comparison, this year Mike Leake's xFIP is 3.63. Now, I think Leake can certainly be an important contributor to a big league rotation, but would anyone really consider trading a combination of Volquez, Stubbs, Alonso and so on for another Mike Leake? If the Reds are going to go after a true ace, they should make sure they're getting a true ace back.

bleedsred
07-10-2011, 09:30 AM
No way do I trade Chris Heisey with Volquez, Francisco, and Alonso in this deal. Volquez, Alonso, Dorn, and J Smith and see if they bite.

Vottomatic
07-10-2011, 09:51 AM
Dude had a rough start to the season. His e.r.a. on May 27th was 5.86 after his first 9 starts. Silver lining is he has lowered it to 4.14 over his last 8 starts. In fact, in those last 8 starts, he has not given up more than 3 earned runs in any of them. Also, he had 30 walks in his first 9 starts, and has only issued 11 walks in his last 8 starts. Obviously, he has gotten his control problems under wraps.

His numbers are improving, and if the Rockies are ready to deal him, I'd be interested.

Alonso has always been that future trade piece blocked by Votto. If they need a future first baseman, obviously the trade starts with Alonso. And they'd probably want a pitcher in return to replace Ubaldo. The argument would be to give Volquez a change of scenery, so throw him in too. And then you probably have to give up a few more prospects with "potential".

I'd do it.

BEETTLEBUG
07-10-2011, 11:12 AM
I like let us talk to them, we can work out something.

wvreds
07-10-2011, 11:23 AM
No

DocRed
07-10-2011, 11:43 AM
Technically he is only signed thru 2013, he can void 2014 if traded.

bshall2105
07-10-2011, 11:48 AM
I feel like Jimenez is one of those guys that could totally lose control at anytime. I see him as a better version of Volquez because when he's on he's terrific, but he can also be prone to melting down.

I want to go for more of a sure thing.

Vottomatic
07-10-2011, 12:33 PM
I feel like Jimenez is one of those guys that could totally lose control at anytime. I see him as a better version of Volquez because when he's on he's terrific, but he can also be prone to melting down.

I want to go for more of a sure thing.

I think if you could convince the Rockies that a change of scenery for Volquez/Jimenez would be a good thing, and that they'd be picking up their future first baseman in a former #1 pick, Alonso, to replace the aging Helton at first base...........I think they might consider it. Plus, while he's not making alot, Volquez comes cheaper than Jimenez.

kg112686
07-11-2011, 03:07 AM
just another option to think about...MLBTR is also saying that if the Marlins determine they are out of it Ricky Nolasco could become available

bounty37h
07-11-2011, 11:25 AM
I think the perception of how good Jiminez is was skewed by his outstanding first half last year. Over the past three seasons, his xFIP has been 3.59, 3.60 and 3.60. By comparison, this year Mike Leake's xFIP is 3.63. Now, I think Leake can certainly be an important contributor to a big league rotation, but would anyone really consider trading a combination of Volquez, Stubbs, Alonso and so on for another Mike Leake? If the Reds are going to go after a true ace, they should make sure they're getting a true ace back.

I totally agree, think he is a mirage and is more likely to end up a bust then a legit ace IMO. If we were/are making a big trade, I want a legit guy, not a flavor of the month.

knoonan991
07-12-2011, 01:36 PM
Ken Rosenthal seems to believe that the Reds may be interested in acquiring Jimenez.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/jimenez_on_reds_radar_if_they_buy/5501791?new_post=true

bshall2105
07-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Ken Rosenthal seems to believe that the Reds may be interested in acquiring Jimenez.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/jimenez_on_reds_radar_if_they_buy/5501791?new_post=true

I really do not want this to happen. The guy is a model of inconsistency.

FireDusty
07-12-2011, 03:52 PM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?

Whoa.......way to much.

Heisey + maybe a scoobie snack and a peanut.

Free Heisey!

Redleg
07-12-2011, 03:57 PM
i think wood, volquez and either alonso or heisey gets it done.

It would probably take all 4

mu4103
07-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Starting Pitcher, Leftfielder and soon 1B when Helton retires are what the Rockies need.
Alonso and Heisey might be good fits. Tough to trade both. I don't think Sappelt has as much value as he does with the Reds. If Alonso and Heisey are traded Sappelt has to be the man in LF. Ubaldo has proven to be an ACE an might just be what the Reds need.

Bailey or Leake, Heisey or Alonso, and at least 1 more star. I don't think the Reds would trade catching.

brm7675
07-12-2011, 04:38 PM
Why would we want this guy?

bounty37h
07-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Starting Pitcher, Leftfielder and soon 1B when Helton retires are what the Rockies need.
Alonso and Heisey might be good fits. Tough to trade both. I don't think Sappelt has as much value as he does with the Reds. If Alonso and Heisey are traded Sappelt has to be the man in LF. Ubaldo has proven to be an ACE an might just be what the Reds need.

Bailey or Leake, Heisey or Alonso, and at least 1 more star. I don't think the Reds would trade catching.

I would never call him an ace. Thinkin more a joker or one-eye jack.

bowles8
07-12-2011, 04:48 PM
I really do not want this to happen. The guy is a model of inconsistency.

Totally agree with you here! As for some of the names mentioned in this thread, I feel that the Reds would be giving up WAYYYYYY too much! Would rather pursue another option other than Jimenez.

Redleg
07-12-2011, 05:02 PM
Totally agree with you here! As for some of the names mentioned in this thread, I feel that the Reds would be giving up WAYYYYYY too much! Would rather pursue another option other than Jimenez.
I can't think of another pitcher that is considered an ace that the reds could acquire. This is a guy that they could actually afford the next couple of years and started the all star game last season.

There is not another ace type pitcher the Reds could afford if they want to keep Votto and Phillips. Then there is also Arroyo's giant contract in a couple of years.

Vottomatic
07-12-2011, 05:29 PM
I can't think of another pitcher that is considered an ace that the reds could acquire. This is a guy that they could actually afford the next couple of years and started the all star game last season.

There is not another ace type pitcher the Reds could afford if they want to keep Votto and Phillips. Then there is also Arroyo's giant contract in a couple of years.

Agreed.

And he pitches in a hitter's park.

Affordable.

Heisey, Alonso, Volquez is what I'd trade.

Vottomatic
07-12-2011, 05:32 PM
Here's what Rotoworld's Drew Silva had to say on the matter just a few minutes ago:


Quote:
4:26
Comment From cinreds21
What would it take for Cincy to get Ubaldo? One of Bailey/Leake/Wood, Alonso and what else?

4:27
I'm not real sure, but they have a decent system of guys who are close to being major league-ready. Would definitely make sense to move Alonso, and I could see one of those pitchers being in the package. The Reds can pull it off if they want to.

The DARK
07-12-2011, 05:43 PM
As inconsistent as Jimenez has been, lets remember a few things:

-Even when he's been down, such as this season, he's still doing better than anyone save Cueto on this Reds staff.

-There's a logjam of older prospects in AAA, such as Alonso, Frazier, and Francisco, that are only going to lose value unless we trade or promote them. Now is the time to get a return on some of them and clear avenues for promotions, and if Ubaldo is the solution, so be it.

-We have the pitching depth. Wood, Volquez, and Leake may not be at their best, but they both have value in that they have shown that they can be valuable members of a rotation, have options remaining, and will be under team control for much longer than Jiminez. Having long-term options at pitching is important for a team like the Rockies, who just signed Tulo to a very long-term contract.

-He'd be perhaps the closest thing we've had to a true "ace" since Rijo. As the Phillies attendance this season (best in the majors) shows, aces draw a real crowd. No one goes to a game because Wood or Arroyo is pitching; they will because Jiminez is.

-We may never be in a better position to trade for a top of the line pitcher than we are this season. We'll be able to get a return on him beyond a single season, he's affordable, and he have prospects at their positions of need.

-His contract is seriously club-friendly. According to Rosenthal, "He is signed for $2.8 million in 2011 and $4.2 million in 12 with club options of $5.75 million and $8 million in 13 and 14." This may make him cost more in terms of prospects, but it allows us to keep guys like Phillips, and if we're lucky, Votto.

UCBrownsfan
07-12-2011, 05:43 PM
I would never call him an ace. Thinkin more a joker or one-eye jack.

His last 3 years avg: 213 IP, 195 K, 81 ER, 3.42 ERA There aren't many that have that line for the past 3 years - especially guys improving in all categories.

kg112686
07-12-2011, 05:44 PM
even if Jimenez could be had i don't see us putting together a package that's more enticing than what the yankees could put together (assuming the yankees would go after him, which i think they would).

izzy's dad
07-12-2011, 06:16 PM
As inconsistent as Jimenez has been, lets remember a few things:

-Even when he's been down, such as this season, he's still doing better than anyone save Cueto on this Reds staff.

-There's a logjam of older prospects in AAA, such as Alonso, Frazier, and Francisco, that are only going to lose value unless we trade or promote them. Now is the time to get a return on some of them and clear avenues for promotions, and if Ubaldo is the solution, so be it.

-We have the pitching depth. Wood, Volquez, and Leake may not be at their best, but they both have value in that they have shown that they can be valuable members of a rotation, have options remaining, and will be under team control for much longer than Jiminez. Having long-term options at pitching is important for a team like the Rockies, who just signed Tulo to a very long-term contract.

-He'd be perhaps the closest thing we've had to a true "ace" since Rijo. As the Phillies attendance this season (best in the majors) shows, aces draw a real crowd. No one goes to a game because Wood or Arroyo is pitching; they will because Jiminez is.

-We may never be in a better position to trade for a top of the line pitcher than we are this season. We'll be able to get a return on him beyond a single season, he's affordable, and he have prospects at their positions of need.

-His contract is seriously club-friendly. According to Rosenthal, "He is signed for $2.8 million in 2011 and $4.2 million in 12 with club options of $5.75 million and $8 million in 13 and 14." This may make him cost more in terms of prospects, but it allows us to keep guys like Phillips, and if we're lucky, Votto.

This says it all. I agree completely. I believe he can opt out of the 2014 year of his contract if traded. So this is likely a 1 1/2 year deal. Also if more butts are in the seats it frees up management to be more liberal with player contracts. Go for it!!!

krm1580
07-12-2011, 06:21 PM
As "bad" as he has been this year, his numbers away from Coors are pretty darn impressive:

IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
55.1 30 15 14 1 20 57 2.28 0.90 .158

I think he could be a legit #1 guy out of the thin air. Its my understanding he has a pretty devastating slider that he cannot throw in Coors because it does not bite.

There is nobody on the AAA roster outside of Mesoraco I would miss. I say do it.

DocRed
07-12-2011, 06:24 PM
I would do EV and Alonso for him.
I would also do Frazier and Alonso for him.

But I doubt that would be even close to what they want.

The DARK
07-12-2011, 06:26 PM
This says it all. I agree completely. I believe he can opt out of the 2014 year of his contract if traded. So this is likely a 1 1/2 year deal. Also if more butts are in the seats it frees up management to be more liberal with player contracts. Go for it!!!

You mean a 2 1/2 year deal? We'd have him for this year, 2012, and 2013 as well.

Who Dey Time
07-12-2011, 06:53 PM
Sappelt, Alonso, Bailey, Volquez and one more prospect for Jimenez and Rex Brothers.

Brothers is the closer of the future in Colorado. Make him the closer of the future in Cincinnati and move Chapman into the rotation.

Your new rotation rotation would look something like:
Cueto
Jimenez
Leake
Chapman
Wood/Arroyo

RedsFan_26
07-12-2011, 06:55 PM
People seem quick to forget that this guy was 19-8 last year with a 2.88 era just because he got off to a bad start this year.. Over his last 8 starts he has a 2.52 era, i like this whole idea. He is 27 and could be the legit ace we are looking for. Jimenez Cueto 1 2 punch could be deadly. We need that. It seems like all winning teams have a 1 2 punch in their rotation. We don't.

izzy's dad
07-12-2011, 06:57 PM
You mean a 2 1/2 year deal? We'd have him for this year, 2012, and 2013 as well.

Yes, you are correct. Thanks for correcting my mistake. This actually makes the deal much more attractive.

bigredmechanism
07-12-2011, 07:04 PM
I believe he can opt out of the 2014 year of his contract if traded. So this is likely a 1 1/2 year deal.

2.5 I think you mean, but I agree Walt should at least entertain the idea. If they ask for too much, then pass.

Redleg
07-12-2011, 07:07 PM
How about a 3 way trade with giants and rox. We send Hernandez to giants and Alonso Frazier and wood to Colorado. Then the giants send surkamp to the Rockies.

I think this would work except the giants might not want to trade within their division.

bshall2105
07-12-2011, 10:43 PM
The article makes it sound like we will have to sell the farm, and I do not want to do that for Jimenez. I just have a bad feeling about him, however some of the offers thrown around in this thread would clearly be steals for the Reds.

wlf WV
07-12-2011, 11:19 PM
According to Rosenthal via MLBTR, the Rockies are getting calls on Jimenez. He is signed through 2014 on a low priced deal and has had a down year thus far. The Rockies are an interesting potential trade partner with an aging Helton at 1B and potential holes at 3B and in the OF. Could this be the ace the Reds need? How about Volquez, Fraizer, Alonzo and Stubbs for Jimenez?I think you need to throw in another pitcher of either Bailey,Wood or Leake and remove Stubbs,add Heisey to get it done.Hard choice.If they would do Volquez and Maloney plus others,yes.

Eric the Red
07-13-2011, 12:13 AM
I'm very curious as to what the asking price for Jimenez would be. As a previous poster mentioned, I'm sure the Yankees/Red Sox/any contending team will inquire on Jimenez. Nothing will likely come from this as I still have a hard time believing Colorado would trade him but it creates intrigue for us fans. My offer to Dan O'Dowd would be Volquez/Alonso/Wood/Francisco.

DocRed
07-13-2011, 12:25 AM
I think Arroyo, Coco, Renteria and Harang for Ubaldo would get it done....

webbbj
07-13-2011, 12:37 AM
As "bad" as he has been this year, his numbers away from Coors are pretty darn impressive:

IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
55.1 30 15 14 1 20 57 2.28 0.90 .158

I think he could be a legit #1 guy out of the thin air. Its my understanding he has a pretty devastating slider that he cannot throw in Coors because it does not bite.

There is nobody on the AAA roster outside of Mesoraco I would miss. I say do it.


i noticed that aswell. do you think his numbers away from home would translate well at GABP.

If some of the deals being reported in this thread are true id do it.

gilpdawg
07-13-2011, 12:52 AM
I think Arroyo, Coco, Renteria and Harang for Ubaldo would get it done....

Haha, I thought you were serious and was about to reply and say "are you kidding?" Then I saw Harang. Good job. :laugh:

To stay on topic, I'd have no problem going one of Bailey/Wood/Leake, Volquez, one of Stubbs/Heisey, Alonso, and maybe another lower level prospect. Dude would kill outside of Coors, and pitching against the NL Central teams not named Milwaukee or St. Louis.

Newman4
07-14-2011, 09:28 AM
I think you need to throw in another pitcher of either Bailey,Wood or Leake and remove Stubbs,add Heisey to get it done.Hard choice.If they would do Volquez and Maloney plus others,yes. I was trying to avoid that particular scenario although your deal is more valuable to the Rockies. Morosi and Rosenthal suggest two pitchers and Alonzo. I would make certain one of the two pitchers is Volquez.

Grouse
07-14-2011, 11:46 AM
You have to remember Votto is gone in two years, the Reds might want to hold on to Alonso.

SidneySlicker
07-14-2011, 12:00 PM
You have to remember Votto is gone in two years, the Reds might want to hold on to Alonso.

This is actually the best reason to make a trade now. They have a window to compete with a mvp caliber player to build around. No matter how good one thinks alonso is, he's not Joey Votto. Combine that with the fact that 1rst base is easiest position in baseball to replace. If Alonso is a must in any trade that can improve this team for the next couple of years, then so be it.

R_Webb18
07-14-2011, 12:28 PM
You have to remember Votto is gone in two years, the Reds might want to hold on to Alonso.

not true

Girevik
07-14-2011, 12:36 PM
This is actually the best reason to make a trade now. They have a window to compete with a mvp caliber player to build around. No matter how good one thinks alonso is, he's not Joey Votto. Combine that with the fact that 1rst base is easiest position in baseball to replace. If Alonso is a must in any trade that can improve this team for the next couple of years, then so be it.

+1

Votto possibly gone in 2 years, Phillips possibly gone after next year. The time to make a bold move is now, before this window slams shut on our fingers.

I'd rather see a bat than a pitcher, but I'm not sure there's much out there to help in LF or SS, so make the move you can.

krm1580
07-14-2011, 01:08 PM
i noticed that aswell. do you think his numbers away from home would translate well at GABP.

If some of the deals being reported in this thread are true id do it.

His numbers probably would translate to GABP pretty well primarilly because he keeps the ball on the ground and does not give up a lot of HRs which is the real killer in Cincy.

The one red flag I see is his velocity seems to be down this season about 2.5 MPH on both his FB and Slider. I would not be willing to empty out the farm system for him but I have no issue moving guys the Reds treat as spare parts such as Alonso, Frazier and Wood.

webbbj
07-14-2011, 02:49 PM
also a lot of catchers seem to transition well into 1b so even if the reds trade alonso, lose votto in FA they have meserasco and grandal that could be able to make a transition into 1B.

i think getting jimenez is a good risk reward. we get a potential cy young calibre pitcher and dont give up the farm and have replacements in return for what we give up

cres36
07-14-2011, 08:50 PM
i would be willingly to give up alonso, wood, and grandal. anyone think that would be enough?

Vottomatic
07-17-2011, 08:25 PM
•Speaking of that asking price, Rockies GM Dan O'Dowd tells Troy Renck of the Denver Post that the Rockies would have to be "absolutely overwhelmed" to move Jimenez. "It would have to be a Herschel Walkerdeal," O'Dowd added, referring to the 1989 NFL trade that earned the nickname "The Great Train Robbery."


Now that would be stupid.

No team is going to trade 6 or 7 players for Ubaldo. The Rockies act like he's Roy Halladay or CC Sabathia or something. Geez, Volquez got Cy Young votes a few years back. What have you done for me lately.

We can put that potential trade to rest.

Todd Gack
07-18-2011, 11:59 AM
Jimenez is 9-15 since last years all star break with an era around 4 in one of the worst offensive divisions in baseball.

No thanks.

Take away Jimenez's 1st half numbers from last year and here are his career numbers:
709.1 IP 317 BB 641 K 4.19 ERA 1.31 WHIP

Again, no thanks.

mr. red
07-18-2011, 03:22 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

LeDoux
07-18-2011, 03:24 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

If the Rockies are willing to make that swap they may be the new Royals.

mroby85
07-18-2011, 03:36 PM
What is rivals? and is it a reliable source?

Todd Gack
07-18-2011, 03:37 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

Would you say that's good enough for a #2 starter?

mr. red
07-18-2011, 03:47 PM
Would you say that's good enough for a #2 starter?

You get the best available pitcher on the market and you get it by giving up players that aren't contributing at the ML level and 2 of which (Alonso and EV) that probably won't contribute on the ML level this year -- and maybe not even next year. Plus, Ubaldo's contract is very friendly for any club, particularly the Reds. If we could get him by giving up those 3 guys, I would be all over it.

KYRedLeg
07-18-2011, 04:00 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

How much are we paying them to take him?

mroby85
07-18-2011, 04:09 PM
What is rivals? and is it a reliable source? Is this the same rivals group that reports on college football? I never knew they did baseball..

lidspinner
07-18-2011, 04:19 PM
What is rivals? and is it a reliable source? Is this the same rivals group that reports on college football? I never knew they did baseball..

I took it as "rivals" as in other teams we are competing against in the trade for Jimenez....but you very well could be right in the group Rivals that does college sports.

Redleg
07-18-2011, 04:22 PM
What is rivals? and is it a reliable source? Is this the same rivals group that reports on college football? I never knew they did baseball..

Rival GM's

mroby85
07-18-2011, 04:23 PM
Rival GM's

Oh okay, I didn't really read it that way because I didn't figure Rival GM's would be discussing Ubaldo/Reds. So what do you think the odds are that this is legit? I think he'd be a nice pickup, but I'd really like to see a bat to help protect Votto so they aren't stranding runners left and right.

mr. red
07-18-2011, 04:35 PM
Oh okay, I didn't really read it that way because I didn't figure Rival GM's would be discussing Ubaldo/Reds. So what do you think the odds are that this is legit? I think he'd be a nice pickup, but I'd really like to see a bat to help protect Votto so they aren't stranding runners left and right.

I'd love to see the Reds get a bat as well. If, by some miracle, we could land Carlos Beltran AND Jimenez, I think that this team would pose a serious threat in the post-season. Let's play best case scenario and say we can get Jimenez for Wood/EV/Alonso, then we could turn around and try to get Beltran for something like Frazier/Heisey/and what? I would love to get Votto some protection in the lineup.

FireDusty
07-18-2011, 04:50 PM
This organization has everything it needs right here at the Major league level and in the high minors.

What they don't have is leadership that has the ability to identify that this is not the year that the club is going to win it all. This organization is measuring itself against teams that are at best someones whipping boy in the playoffs.

Leadership, if there was any, should jettison a pitcher, Gomes, Renteria & Lewis.....call up Frazier, Sappelt, Alonzo & Yanish........then work Frazier into 3rd by having him spell Rolen, work Sappelt in by spelling Stubbs when he gets into strikeout mode, work Alonzo in by essentially platooning him with Heisey.

Then, you shop Hernandez for a situational lefty, get situational lefty and then send Chapman down and proclaim that he will be a starter for the remainder of the season in AAA and then a starter from here on out.

After completing the Hernandez trade for the situational lefty, you call up Mesaroco and have him as the new head in the new 2 headed monster at catcher.

By doing that, you would be getting next years club ready now, still winning enough to stay in the farce of a race that is the NL Central & actually positioning yourself to dominate the divsion for the next 5 years.

If you could find someone stupid enough to take Coco, do that to. I would give him away to anyone willing to pay him for the rest of the year & expect nothing but a scobby snack and a peanut in return.

That is the kind of vision that will pay off next year and the years down the road.

We ain't winning anything of significance this year anyway. We aren't good enough. This organization should not trade anyone.

Keep in mind, there is another wave coming after the next wave. This organization needs to stop wasting roster spots on veterans that are not part of the master plan.

jmho

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 05:04 PM
How much are we paying them to take him? (Volquez)

:laugh: :beerme:

bshall2105
07-18-2011, 05:11 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

This would be awesome. I'm not sold on Jimenez but this would be a terrific deal.

bounty37h
07-18-2011, 05:23 PM
Heyman's Twitter:

SI_JonHeyman
rivals believe #reds equipped to trade for top reliever and/or jimenez. ubaldo package could be: alonso/wood/volquez

That I would do, hate to lose Wood but hes the only one I think we would miss off that list.

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 05:26 PM
This would be awesome. I'm not sold on Jimenez but this would be a terrific deal.

Yeah. I'd do it.

Alonso has no where to play.
Volquez needs a change.

Wood is the only one I'd miss.

Hillsdale87
07-18-2011, 06:26 PM
Yeah. I'd do it.

Alonso has no where to play.
Volquez needs a change.

Wood is the only one I'd miss.

I'd miss Wood, but I'd much rather have Jiminez. Alonso I expect to be a good player, but he just doesn't fit in with the Reds plans, so I wouldn't see him as a huge loss

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 09:31 PM
I'd miss Wood, but I'd much rather have Jiminez. Alonso I expect to be a good player, but he just doesn't fit in with the Reds plans, so I wouldn't see him as a huge loss

And the thing about it is, other teams will probably offer top rated prospects who have never played in the big leagues, who could just as easily be flops. Wood has had success at times and he's still young. Ask the Phillies about him shutting them down.

And Volquez is recovering from TJ surgery, but the announcers always say he has the best stuff of anyone in the rotation, and he's a few years removed from Cy Young votes and 17 wins.

And Alonso is a former #1 pick who is blocked at the major league level but the NL MVP, but has nothing left to prove in the minors.

Newman4
07-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Alonzo/Volquez/Wood would be more than fair in my opinion. I agree with you guys that giving up Wood would be tough, but Wood at his best is not as good as Jimenez at his best so I think you have to do the deal.

OGB
07-18-2011, 11:00 PM
You have to remember Votto is gone in two years, the Reds might want to hold on to Alonso.
I'm sorry, but your logic is terrible.
First of all, the Reds signed Votto, Bruce, and Cueto to deals this offseason. Your goal should be to win during that time frame, not hoard prospects for when those guys may be gone.
Second, who's to say that Votto won't sign an extension? If the reports about him are true, he likely won't want to go to a big city like NY, LA, Chicago, or Boston? I think if he doesn't stay here, he ends up in Toronto.
Third, If you hang on to Alonso for the purpose of starting him when Votto's contract is up, you'd have a 27 year old first baseman who has never been a major league starter before.



This is actually the best reason to make a trade now. They have a window to compete with a mvp caliber player to build around. No matter how good one thinks alonso is, he's not Joey Votto. Combine that with the fact that 1rst base is easiest position in baseball to replace. If Alonso is a must in any trade that can improve this team for the next couple of years, then so be it.

Yes, this.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 08:49 AM
What's Ubaldo's batting average? :D

brm7675
07-19-2011, 05:42 PM
According to a Colorado sports writer it would take..

Troy Renck, the Post writer, mentioned the trade that sent Mark Teixeira from Texas to Atlanta. The Rangers got Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus in that trade.

I think for the Reds to get Jimenez it would take Homer Bailey, Travis Wood or Mike Leake, one of the young catchers Devin Mesoraco or Yasmani Grandal, a young prospect like Billy Hamilton or Yorman Rodriguez and another lesser prospect.

Billy Hamilton's Legs
07-19-2011, 06:46 PM
According to a Colorado sports writer it would take..

Troy Renck, the Post writer, mentioned the trade that sent Mark Teixeira from Texas to Atlanta. The Rangers got Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus in that trade.

I think for the Reds to get Jimenez it would take Homer Bailey, Travis Wood or Mike Leake, one of the young catchers Devin Mesoraco or Yasmani Grandal, a young prospect like Billy Hamilton or Yorman Rodriguez and another lesser prospect.

I think that if he gets traded to us, we WON'T be disappointed at what we had to give up. The deal listed above would leave me disappointed. It seems as if anytime major pitchers are traded, the return is not what you would expect.

I thankfully don't think one of the catchers would be sent the other way simply because the rox themselves have a stud catching prospect on the way already, why create a votto-alonso situation for yourself? I'm sure the Colorado writer is overvaluing the haul that ubaldo would get simply because he's looking at it from the rockies' side of the deal. The same would apply if we were trading johnny cueto; we would expect the world, but probably would end up disappointed. I actually think a deal of Wood, Volquez, Hesiey, Alonso, and maybe another lower prospect is pretty realistic. Alonso is the real deal and I think RZ takes the guy for granted. I think he projects as a .280~.290 hitter w/ some pop. His production in the minors shouldn't be discounted and his pedigree would suggest that his numbers aren't a fluke. That's 5-6 years of solid, cheap production. Wood projects to be a 3-4 starter. Volquez: a gold mine or a bust, either way he is a cheap, but decent throw in. I'm convinced Hesiey can play LF everyday, some center, and probably hit .260 w/ a little pop. With all of these players though, they are cheap, look to be productive major leaguers (except Volqy of course), and are under control for a long time.

I understand aces are very, very valuable, especially cheap ones, but I think what we are sending back (in the deal above) is a reasonable estimation.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 07:06 PM
Sorry but to make this deal makes no real baseball sense, it still doesn't address what issues this team is having, so sure we add another arm, so we still continue to lose 2-0, 3-2, 2-1 and so on...yep problem solved....

bshall2105
07-19-2011, 09:10 PM
Sorry but to make this deal makes no real baseball sense, it still doesn't address what issues this team is having, so sure we add another arm, so we still continue to lose 2-0, 3-2, 2-1 and so on...yep problem solved....

The world will not be ending the day the 2011 world series ends. This trade would be more for the long term giving us a solid number 2 starter to go with Cueto for the next 4 years.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 09:15 PM
According to a Colorado sports writer it would take..

Troy Renck, the Post writer, mentioned the trade that sent Mark Teixeira from Texas to Atlanta. The Rangers got Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus in that trade.

I think for the Reds to get Jimenez it would take Homer Bailey, Travis Wood or Mike Leake, one of the young catchers Devin Mesoraco or Yasmani Grandal, a young prospect like Billy Hamilton or Yorman Rodriguez and another lesser prospect.

I didn't like it at first, but the more I think about it, I'd do it. But I wouldn't include Mez. And I'm not crazy about including Yorman. But I would.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 11:45 PM
Jimenez pitching tonight.

So far, 5 IP, 6 hits, 1 ER, 7 K's, 1 BB. Rockies up 6-1 over the Braves.

Girevik
07-20-2011, 09:28 AM
I It seems as if anytime major pitchers are traded, the return is not what you would expect.

But those are usually rentals. It's rare to see a good pitcher locked up for this long get traded. That would bump the price up considerably.

Red Rover
07-20-2011, 10:46 AM
I'm not as sold on Mez as everyone else. I value defense at catcher more than offense. Mez still struggles to throw runners out and I'm not too sure on his game calling/leadership. I think Grandal is the catcher to keep an eye on.