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NatiWolfpack24
07-10-2011, 03:13 AM
Time to take notice. Time to decide if you're on the train or if you're off the train. Some of you clowns (I can't get in trouble for calling people clowns can I?) continue to throw Dusty under the bus. You go around posting this and posting that, day after day. Hating on every single mistake, error, slip up, etc. Some people here are already off of the train for this season. You know who you are. Guess what? You aren't welcome back when the team turns it around after the break.

It will happen, and then you'll come crawling back with your tail tucked between your legs and slowly try to change your tune. Unfortunately like I said you're not welcome back. Train just left the station and you're left standing there, sorry.

For all the Reds fans that have been behind this team from day 1 and acted with maturity and a level head, RISE UP! We know this team will get it done and we don't need the pessimistic "fans" on this forum to bring us down. Sit back and enjoy the ride fellas. I can't wait until the egg lands on the MLB and some of our "fans" faces.

gilpdawg
07-10-2011, 04:02 AM
Here, here!

bleedsred
07-10-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah, what were all those fans thinking about when whining about getting Cozart up here...........or moaning how Dusty wasn't using his outfielders to the best of their capabilities???? I don't whine about every move like some fans, but I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and it makes them no less a fan. Some vent and swear they given up but most on here are in tune to the Reds on a nightly basis...regardless of what they type...hoping for that winning streak to start.

That being said, I'm excited to see what Willis can do today.

Vottomatic
07-10-2011, 09:55 AM
Time to take notice. Time to decide if you're on the train or if you're off the train. Some of you clowns (I can't get in trouble for calling people clowns can I?) continue to throw Dusty under the bus. You go around posting this and posting that, day after day. Hating on every single mistake, error, slip up, etc. Some people here are already off of the train for this season. You know who you are. Guess what? You aren't welcome back when the team turns it around after the break.

It will happen, and then you'll come crawling back with your tail tucked between your legs and slowly try to change your tune. Unfortunately like I said you're not welcome back. Train just left the station and you're left standing there, sorry.

For all the Reds fans that have been behind this team from day 1 and acted with maturity and a level head, RISE UP! We know this team will get it done and we don't need the pessimistic "fans" on this forum to bring us down. Sit back and enjoy the ride fellas. I can't wait until the egg lands on the MLB and some of our "fans" faces.

Another one of these posts, eh? Meh.

The people complaining the most probably care the most. That's why they're complaining.

The people complaining the most probably want the team to do the best, more than others do. That's why they're complaining.

Just because you complain doesn't mean you aren't behind the team.

Some people call them like they see them. Other people live in la-la land.

bleedsred
07-10-2011, 12:14 PM
Well said............

Stray
07-10-2011, 12:24 PM
I've just come to the realization that a lot of baseball fans, more than fans of any other sport I can think of, are 100% certain they can do a better job than their manager. It isn't unique to Reds fans, you see it from fans of every team.

I don't think it makes them any less of a fan, we all follow in our own way. Like Votto said, if they didn't care they wouldn't be so vocal about how dumb our manager is.

Old NDN
07-10-2011, 01:25 PM
I've been at this (following the Reds) a lot longer than most on here. I keep one foot on the bandwagon and one on the step off (not really). I get so exasperated sometimes, and swear I'm not going to follow for awhile. But each day, I find myself trying to read all things Reds, especially on here. I guess I've been a fan too long to stop now. With the Bengals OTOH...........lol. As Votto said, if people didn't complain, they wouldn't care. In the end, we all want the same thing : Reds wins!

Roush's socks
07-10-2011, 01:41 PM
You can count me as one of the people who supports Walt and Dusty. I also think all the haters are lacking perspective and good judgement. Since I've been a Reds fan, and sports fan in general, since the early 70's, I've seen a few things. THIS TEAM SUCKED FOR A LONG TIME AND NOW THEY ARE COMPETITIVE WITH A GREAT CORE OF YOUNG PLAYERS. What more can you ask for from a small market team that struggles with attendance? Why should we expect the Reds to out-spend the Cardinals and Brewers when those clubs have more money and a more supportive fan base?

Also, I fully expect this Reds team to turn it a around and win this division in the 2nd half. The schedule gets way easier after August 1st and there is a long way to go. The starting pitching is looking pretty solid. There has been a lot of Bad Luck so far and the Reds are due for a serious hot streak.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Your Mom's not welcome back on the train.

brm7675
07-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Anyone who watches this team right now and believes they can win the division is well...lets just say not in their right mind. We have way to many holes that are not being filled and or are being made worse by horrible managerial choices. We have a GM who is so out of touch with today's game it is down right scary and an owner who is staying silent for some unknown reason. We do have a good core of players to build on, but until serious change occurs in those who make those decisions we are bound for .500 baseball.

brm7675
07-10-2011, 03:17 PM
Oh and when you are putting your "hopes" on the likes of Dontrell Willis....now that is scary...

Natty Redlocks
07-10-2011, 03:24 PM
Ha, ha! People will jump on and off the bandwagon whenever they please. Just FYI.

That said, I've maintained all year that I don't see anyone running away with this division, and the Reds have the talent to be in the mix until the end. But Dusty Baker is a deeply flawed manager -- he is loyal to a fault, and that results in an absence of accountability that affects every player. This team is frustrating to watch, but frustrating in July is better than being out of it before June.

I do agree that some people are hilarious to watch, as their panic increases with every loss.

Roush's socks
07-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Anyone who watches this team right now and believes they can win the division is well...lets just say not in their right mind. We have way to many holes that are not being filled and or are being made worse by horrible managerial choices. We have a GM who is so out of touch with today's game it is down right scary and an owner who is staying silent for some unknown reason. We do have a good core of players to build on, but until serious change occurs in those who make those decisions we are bound for .500 baseball.

I'm "not in my right mind" because I think the Reds can win the division? They are 3 games out of 1st with 70 games remaining. They have not performed up to their Pythagorean, which means they are due for a correction. That is not "pie in the sky" wishful thinking. That is what any sabermetrics person would tell you.

The Cardinals and Brewers have had a lot more go right for them so far this season, and they still are only a couple games ahead. The Reds are totally in this race and only a negative nancy would see it otherwise.

Of course we all wish that Walt could package Volquez and Alonso for some TOR pitcher or Allstar caliber SS or LF. Guess what? EVERY TEAM has a cast-off pitcher and young prospect they would like to trade for an impact player.

Roush's socks
07-10-2011, 03:31 PM
Ha, ha! People will jump on and off the bandwagon whenever they please. Just FYI.

That said, I've maintained all year that I don't see anyone running away with this division, and the Reds have the talent to be in the mix until the end. But Dusty Baker is a deeply flawed manager -- he is loyal to a fault, and that results in an absence of accountability that affects every player. This team is frustrating to watch, but frustrating in July is better than being out of it before June.

I do agree that some people are hilarious to watch, as their panic increases with every loss.

Players play better for managers who are loyal. That is not a fault it is a strength.

Natty Redlocks
07-10-2011, 03:34 PM
Players play better for managers who are loyal. That is not a fault it is a strength.

That is not a fact; it is an opinion.

Also, are you saying that a manager's loyalty should have no limit, no matter how crappy a year a player is having?

Roush's socks
07-10-2011, 03:45 PM
That is not a fact; it is an opinion.

Also, are you saying that a manager's loyalty should have no limit, no matter how crappy a year a player is having?

Of course not. But the best managers project consistent and clear directions. With Dusty you know what you're getting. The worst managers are constantly trying different things, and players don't know what to expect.

In baseball the players have to know that they won't get benched the 1st time they go in a hitting slump. The game is so mental, that confidence has to be there.

brm7675
07-10-2011, 04:05 PM
I'm "not in my right mind" because I think the Reds can win the division? They are 3 games out of 1st with 70 games remaining. They have not performed up to their Pythagorean, which means they are due for a correction. That is not "pie in the sky" wishful thinking. That is what any sabermetrics person would tell you.

The Cardinals and Brewers have had a lot more go right for them so far this season, and they still are only a couple games ahead. The Reds are totally in this race and only a negative nancy would see it otherwise.

Of course we all wish that Walt could package Volquez and Alonso for some TOR pitcher or Allstar caliber SS or LF. Guess what? EVERY TEAM has a cast-off pitcher and young prospect they would like to trade for an impact player.

What players are not playing up to their abilities?

Natty Redlocks
07-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Of course not. But the best managers project consistent and clear directions. With Dusty you know what you're getting. The worst managers are constantly trying different things, and players don't know what to expect.

In baseball the players have to know that they won't get benched the 1st time they go in a hitting slump. The game is so mental, that confidence has to be there.

To me, "consistent and clear" would be that if you help the team, you play. And if you're killing the team by being a gaping hole in the lineup for weeks on end (not to mention a defensive liability), you don't play. If you have a history of being a productive everyday player, you get more leeway. One of my problems with Dusty is that he has a history of taking a proven bench player and trying to "leadership" him into an everyday player. He did it in Chicago with Todd Hollandsworth and Neifi Perez. He's done it with the Reds with Jonny Gomes. There's nothing in Gomes' career numbers that indicates he's anything more than a platoon player. And it's been years since Renteria was a productive everyday player. That's what I mean by "to a fault". I had no problem with the Reds signing Renteria or bringing back Gomes. They're both decent options to help out at positions where there's ABs available. But to stubbornly keep running them out there again and again and again, with the same, predictable, disappointing results again and again and again, is just stupid. And it sends the message to the rest of the team that production isn't what matters; what gets rewarded is to somehow get in the manager's good graces through some murky formula involving veteran clutchiness, and if you're a young player that doesn't happen to be a first round draft pick that the team is heavily invested in, it doesn't matter how well you play. And that's not "clear and consistent"; that's "unfair".

markymark69
07-10-2011, 04:46 PM
The problem with the "caring" fans who complain is they never compliment - even after a win - they still nitpick what Dusty did or didn't do - that Renteria is no good - that Jonny Gomes shouldn't play - that Chris Heisey is the second coming and should never ever sit the bench under any circumstances - etc., etc.

If this team is as lousy as the "caring" fans who complain all the time believe it is - they would a lot worse than what they are. As a matter of fact they have been - but not at present. Could they be better? Yes. Things have not gone like we want - but the fact is the Reds are still in this thing - in a lot of years past that has not been the case.

These same "caring" fans will also be the first in line to complain when Jocketty does make a trade to try to better this team. Because, of course, it will be the "wrong" move.

So I need a little more proof (some positive comments every once in a while) about so-called "caring" fans. Just because you say you care or that all fans who complain are the only ones that care - doesn't make it so.

BurgervilleBuck
07-10-2011, 05:14 PM
The problem with the "caring" fans who complain is they never compliment - even after a win - they still nitpick what Dusty did or didn't do - that Renteria is no good - that Jonny Gomes shouldn't play - that Chris Heisey is the second coming and should never ever sit the bench under any circumstances - etc., etc.

If this team is as lousy as the "caring" fans who complain all the time believe it is - they would a lot worse than what they are. As a matter of fact they have been - but not at present. Could they be better? Yes. Things have not gone like we want - but the fact is the Reds are still in this thing - in a lot of years past that has not been the case.

These same "caring" fans will also be the first in line to complain when Jocketty does make a trade to try to better this team. Because, of course, it will be the "wrong" move.

So I need a little more proof (some positive comments every once in a while) about so-called "caring" fans. Just because you say you care or that all fans who complain are the only ones that care - doesn't make it so.

+11. We don't need "caring" fans, we need real fans. This team isn't perfect but they're not as horrid as these keyboard nitpickers make them out to be.

bounty37h
07-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Time to take notice. Time to decide if you're on the train or if you're off the train. Some of you clowns (I can't get in trouble for calling people clowns can I?) continue to throw Dusty under the bus. You go around posting this and posting that, day after day. Hating on every single mistake, error, slip up, etc. Some people here are already off of the train for this season. You know who you are. Guess what? You aren't welcome back when the team turns it around after the break.

It will happen, and then you'll come crawling back with your tail tucked between your legs and slowly try to change your tune. Unfortunately like I said you're not welcome back. Train just left the station and you're left standing there, sorry.

For all the Reds fans that have been behind this team from day 1 and acted with maturity and a level head, RISE UP! We know this team will get it done and we don't need the pessimistic "fans" on this forum to bring us down. Sit back and enjoy the ride fellas. I can't wait until the egg lands on the MLB and some of our "fans" faces.

I'm in, have been since I was a kid. That said, I can tell your a wolpfack fan, this post reads like pack pride ;)

Who Dey Time
07-11-2011, 12:01 PM
What players are not playing up to their abilities?

Is this a serious question? If so, what team have you been watching for 3+ months?

brm7675
07-11-2011, 12:03 PM
Is this a serious question? If so, what team have you been watching for 3+ months?

I have been watching and to me we are seeing the players playing up to their ability at this point in their careers. Whom do you see not meeting their ability?

Who Dey Time
07-11-2011, 12:21 PM
I have been watching and to me we are seeing the players playing up to their ability at this point in their careers. Whom do you see not meeting their ability?

Off the top of my head:
Volquez
Arroyo
Hanigan
Rolen
Any SS not named Cozart
Gomes
Chapman
Wood

All performing below expectations to this point in the season. Hopefully the law of averages catches up these last 70 games.

CrosleyField
07-11-2011, 12:58 PM
I don't think Dusty is the great Satan, overall he does a very good job. I do think that he believes in doing things his way. You may not like, but learn to live with it.

Also you have to remember that professional baseball season is like a double marathon, we may not be in first but we are certainly within striking distance especially in a division like ours.

Go Reds

DFA Renteria :thumbup:

bounty37h
07-11-2011, 01:07 PM
Off the top of my head:
Volquez
Arroyo
Hanigan
Rolen
Any SS not named Cozart
Gomes
Chapman
Wood

All performing below expectations to this point in the season. Hopefully the law of averages catches up these last 70 games.

Dont waste your time, think he likes to argue for sake of arguing...I dont think he even agrees with himself most of the time.

brm7675
07-11-2011, 01:41 PM
Off the top of my head:
Volquez

given his injury and lack of real progress last year, you and Dusty must be the only two who had higher expectations for him this year.

Arroyo

The man had mono in spring training and it is known it can take months for someone with that to be 100%. Add into that he didn't go on the DL or miss any starts, not real sure how you could see his performance as anything but remarkable with this issue.

Hanigan

Hanigan has not produced like he did last year I will agree, but he never will, he had a very good year last year, but his numbers this year are on the level to what type of player he is. What were you expecting a repeat of last year or better?


Rolen

Your kidding right? The man is nearing the AARP community and you wanted his numbers to match last year? okay...

Any SS not named Cozart

Janish has disappointed in the field, but we knew he couldn't hit

Gomes

He is producing what his baseball card says it should. If used "right" by Dusty his numbers would not be that bad at all....


Chapman

He had like a couple bad games and he is not playing up to expectations? Really?


Wood

Okay what were your expectations for a pitcher with less then a full year of major league experience under his belt?

All performing below expectations to this point in the season. Hopefully the law of averages catches up these last 70 games.

Who Dey Time
07-11-2011, 01:58 PM
BRM, all you have done above is provide reason/excuses why the players I listed have performed at their current level which does nothing to address the fact that they ARE performing below what was expected of them coming into 2011.

brm7675
07-11-2011, 02:05 PM
BRM, all you have done above is provide reason/excuses why the players I listed have performed at their current level which does nothing to address the fact that they ARE performing below what was expected of them coming into 2011.

No I believe your expectations were to high. Why do you think an aging banged up Rolen would produce any better then he is? You don't get better with age. Gomes had like 2 great months last year, if you look at his career numbers he is right where he should be. Hanigan played above his ability last year, not up to it. I think that like alot of Reds fans you have kinda over estimated the ability of certain players.

FireDusty
07-11-2011, 02:12 PM
Who cares who says what about band wagons?

I don't.

I know the game & I know when the manager sucks.

I will root for the team to somehow win in spite of Dusty Baker. The players will need to play their asses off because they will need to to make up for the idiot running the show.

If we win the division it won't be because Dusty pulled the right strings. It will be in spite of the fact that Dusty is hamstringing us.

And so what if 85-77 wins the division? All it will do is put us up against the Phillies so we can get embarrassed in front of a national audience again.

If this organization is going to make a serious run in the playoffs, they have some changes that need to be made in the leadership.

webbbj
07-11-2011, 02:33 PM
the main moves that bother me the most are waiting too long to call up cozart, not playing heisey enough, too much gomes.

i think the teams has slightly underachieved but im tired of people saying their out of it when their only 4 games out, cause their not.