PDA

View Full Version : Jon Heyman: Reds are looking for relief help



Homer Bailey
07-14-2011, 03:35 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/reds-looking-for-relief-help-.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


#reds in mix looking for relief help in addition to #rangers, #phillies, #yankees, #cardinals and maybe #chisox


Add the Reds to the ever-expanding list of teams eyeing bullpen help. They're in the mix for relievers, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter).

I'm really not seeing this as a huge priority. Anyone else agree? Maybe it's just the cheapest way to upgrade the team (both prospect and $ wise)?

OesterPoster
07-14-2011, 03:38 PM
Might be concerned that Ondrusek's arm is about to fall off and need a suitable replacement.

RedsManRick
07-14-2011, 03:38 PM
I chalk this up to Jocketty looking at any/all avenues for improving the squad. GM'ing, like politics, is often the art of the possible. Improving anywhere is better than trying to improve in just the highest priority places and coming up short.

HotCorner
07-14-2011, 03:39 PM
Maybe they're looking for a reliever with closer experience should Cordero continue down his current path.

Ron Madden
07-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I don't see the Reds bullpen as an area of need. I think the bullpen will be fine if Dusty manages it better than he did in the first half.

OldXOhio
07-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't see the Reds bullpen as an area of need. I think the bullpen will be fine if Dusty manages it better than he did in the first half.

Which is a big if which is why WJ might be in the market.

bucksfan2
07-14-2011, 03:46 PM
What if they were able to get Heath Bell or Mike Adams?

Too often we as fans look at direct areas of needs and don't look to make moves that improve the team overall. I think the pen has done a pretty good job this year (sans Coco over the last 10 days). But what happens if you add Mike Adams? You now put Adams in the 8th, Masset and Chapman in the 7th and you shorten the game. I like Ondrusek but he is no longer pitching in the 7th inning.

cumberlandreds
07-14-2011, 03:58 PM
I don't see the Reds bullpen as an area of need. I think the bullpen will be fine if Dusty manages it better than he did in the first half.

You just hit on the reason they are looking.
If they anyone at any position that can help it would be fine with me. Heath Bell would look really good coming out of that bullpen. I wonder if Marmol is available or Tyler Clippard of the Nats? Any of those would look good coming out of the pen.

Caveat Emperor
07-14-2011, 03:59 PM
Acquiring relief pitchers usually has minimal impact on payroll.

As always with the Reds, the balance ledger controls all transactions.

rotnoid
07-14-2011, 04:06 PM
Could just be driving up the price the Cards ultimately pay for Bell as well.

757690
07-14-2011, 04:08 PM
The Reds have a good bullpen, but not a great one.

There isn't a pitcher there who I feel is a complete shutdown guy. One more hammer for the 8th who could also be an option to close would be a big improvement for the team.

Reds1
07-14-2011, 04:10 PM
I am of the mindset that any upgrade is an upgrade. Even if it's a small piece of the puzzle if it is the right deal then go for it. I am of the camp that believe the reds need a starter over a reliever, but if you can get Heath Bell or a name like that you go for it. We don't know if Chap will be able to maintain what he has done the past couple of weeks and you think Coco will be ok. Too me the AS game showed me pitching wins. I have heard Ulbaldo trade rumors and too me that's the right direction to look for, but as he should walt is looking to improve the team in any area he can.

jojo
07-14-2011, 04:13 PM
I'm really not seeing this as a huge priority. Anyone else agree? Maybe it's just the cheapest way to upgrade the team (both prospect and $ wise)?

Their pen is actually 11th in the NL ranked by FIP and they have thrown the second highest number of innings in the NL. It's been a problem which might be obfuscated a bit by it's shiny ERA or if focusing upon FIP out of the context of the rest of the league.

If Jocketty could get a high leverage arm in exchange for organizational surplus, it would be a significant upgrade IMHO.

That said, their rotation is ranked dead last by FIP (and it isn't even close).

traderumor
07-14-2011, 04:19 PM
You can never have enough pitching. If its inexpensive, buy some.

corkedbat
07-14-2011, 04:33 PM
Maybe its a replacement for Cordero when he's DFA'd. :D

BTW, what happened with Burton? Must have missed it. Is he not gonna pitch at all this year?

HokieRed
07-14-2011, 04:36 PM
You can never have enough pitching. If its inexpensive, buy some.

Right. I'd assume GM's are looking for relief help 365 days a year.

RedsManRick
07-14-2011, 04:38 PM
I could see something like Heisey, Maloney, and a mid-low level prospect for Heath Bell.

Scrap Irony
07-14-2011, 04:43 PM
I'd do that in a heartbeat, then expect Cordero to move to the 7th and 8th (along with Masset, Ondrusek, and Chapman).

camisadelgolf
07-14-2011, 04:45 PM
I like this comment:

Relief help, the thing everyone says everyone is looking for so when it happens they can say they had their finger on the pulse.

Caveat Emperor
07-14-2011, 04:45 PM
You can never have enough pitching. If its inexpensive, buy some.

They need better guys at the start, not better guys at the finish.

camisadelgolf
07-14-2011, 04:46 PM
Maybe its a replacement for Cordero when he's DFA'd. :D

BTW, what happened with Burton? Must have missed it. Is he not gonna pitch at all this year?
He had shoulder surgery but is expected to be healthy before the end of the year.

steig
07-14-2011, 05:56 PM
Right. I'd assume GM's are looking for relief help 365 days a year.

The problem i see is that is seems like relief help always is over priced during the season if you have to trade for help. Have the players traded for K Rod even been listed yet?

Guacarock
07-14-2011, 05:58 PM
If we're getting stonewalled on trading for the starters we want, getting an additional top-flight reliever is another surefire way to improve our pitching. As a side benefit:

* We could need another ace in the bullpen if we have reason to believe Cordero might continue to slide in the second half of the season.

* If the reliever is signed through 2012 or could be re-signed this winter, he might make another prime candidate to close for us next year, along with our in-house candidates for the job (Chapman, Masset, Boxberger, etc.)

* If our starters are erratic, and need pulling more often in the fifth than the seventh innings, we can do that with a well-stocked and armed bullpen. Especially over a short haul over the next 6 weeks or so until rosters can expand in September. Sure, it's a band-aid and a temporary fix, but it's a band-aid at the right time of the season -- when we either have to solidify our position as a NL Division contender or else punt on this season and hope for better things down the line.

mace
07-14-2011, 06:19 PM
If we're getting stonewalled on trading for the starters we want, getting an additional top-flight reliever is another surefire way to improve our pitching. As a side benefit:

* If the reliever is signed through 2012 or could be re-signed this winter, he might make another prime candidate to close for us next year, along with our in-house candidates for the job (Chapman, Masset, Boxberger, etc.)



Also, if the acquisition is a viable closer candidate for next year, that could liberate Chapman to be developed as a starter.

Caveat Emperor
07-14-2011, 06:32 PM
The problem i see is that is seems like relief help always is over priced during the season if you have to trade for help.

Plus, relief pitching is so mercurial in nature that you often don't get anything close to what you thought you were paying for.

mdccclxix
07-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Can we start relievers in first inning? The Reds first inning OPS against is .880+.

mth123
07-14-2011, 06:48 PM
I'm in the camp that thinks that the starters doing better and going deeper in games along with a little bit of a shorter leash for Cordero fixes most of the problems in the pen, but any upgrade is a good thing. If they can get a good arm and not just an interchangeable body, I'm all for it.

traderumor
07-14-2011, 07:31 PM
They need better guys at the start, not better guys at the finish.
Of course, but then an upgrade is an upgrade at the right price. It isn't like the bullpen has been nails. It's been above average. But improvement is improvement, and starting pitching has been pricey to trade for, pricey to sign in, well, forever.

fearofpopvol1
07-14-2011, 08:15 PM
Their pen is actually 11th in the NL ranked by FIP and they have thrown the second highest number of innings in the NL. It's been a problem which might be obfuscated a bit by it's shiny ERA or if focusing upon FIP out of the context of the rest of the league.

If Jocketty could get a high leverage arm in exchange for organizational surplus, it would be a significant upgrade IMHO.

That said, their rotation is ranked dead last by FIP (and it isn't even close).

I agree with this. It shouldn't be a priority, but if there is an easy way to upgarde with a plus bullpen arm, it's worth it.

mth123
07-14-2011, 10:19 PM
Here is a speculation that might make sense.

1. Mets are shopping Isringhausen
2. Izzy has had a nice comeback and is looking to get back in the closer role
3. Walt has an extensive history with Izzy
4. The Reds could use a vet as a fallback for next year if Masset or whoever can't handle the mental aspect of the 9th and as insurance this year if Cordero continues his slilde
5. The cards also have a history with Izzy and could use him and keeping him away from them might be a motivation
6. An acquisition with a contract for 2012 might make sense and wouldn't cost much in players or cash
7. Cordero walks after the season and Izzy plays the David Weathers role in 2012.

No info on any of this, just wondering

edabbs44
07-14-2011, 10:22 PM
Here is a speculation that might make sense.

1. Mets are shopping Isringhausen
2. Izzy has had a nice comeback and is looking to get back in the closer role
3. Walt has an extensive history with Izzy
4. The Reds could use a vet as a fallback for next year if Masset or whoever can't handle the mental aspect of the 9th and as insurance this year if Cordero continues his slilde
5. The cards also have a history with Izzy and could use him and keeping him away from them might be a motivation
6. An acquisition with a contract for 2012 might make sense and wouldn't cost much in players or cash
7. Cordero walks after the season and Izzy plays the David Weathers role in 2012.

No info on any of this, just wondering


Isringhausen to Alderson: Please don't trade me

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2011/07/isringhausen-to-alderson-please-dont-trade-me-0


"I never [bleeping] said one thing about, 'Please don't trade me,' " Isringhausen told the New York Post on Monday. "Yeah, I talked to Sandy, but I never once said, 'Please don't trade me.' I said I'd like to stay here. I'd never plead with anyone about staying anywhere."

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/30584932

Joseph
07-14-2011, 10:24 PM
Didn't we choose not to sign Izzy in the spring? Why would we trade for him now?

mth123
07-14-2011, 10:26 PM
Didn't we choose not to sign Izzy in the spring? Why would we trade for him now?

Because in spring he was real iffy, now he's had 35 appearances with an ERA of around 3.15. Situation is completely different.

camisadelgolf
07-14-2011, 11:33 PM
Didn't we choose not to sign Izzy in the spring? Why would we trade for him now?
Jim Edmonds says hi. :wave:

Slyder
07-15-2011, 12:08 AM
If the only goal is to add another reliever then its shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. Bullpen doesn't matter if your starters cannot get a game to them with the lead.

Edd Roush
07-15-2011, 11:30 AM
I'll pass on Izzy. 6.6 K/9 and 4.1 BB.9. I don't want another reliever with middling stuff.

wolfboy
07-15-2011, 11:47 AM
I'll pass on Izzy. 6.6 K/9 and 4.1 BB.9. I don't want another reliever with middling stuff.

Agree. His FIP is pretty terrible this year. I think that shiny ERA is due for a massive correction.

mth123
07-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Agree. His FIP is pretty terrible this year. I think that shiny ERA is due for a massive correction.

Don't get me wrong. I don't really want Izzy either, but it seems like a Reds style move. Ties to the GM & owner, won't take much to acquire, cheap moneywise and keeps him away from a Division rival.

reds44
07-15-2011, 03:38 PM
Who in the bullpen is Isringhausen and upgrade over exactly?

Now if the Cubs want to ship out Carlos Marmol due to his recent struggles, that'd be a different story.

wolfboy
07-15-2011, 03:46 PM
Don't get me wrong. I don't really want Izzy either, but it seems like a Reds style move. Ties to the GM & owner, won't take much to acquire, cheap moneywise and keeps him away from a Division rival.

I can't argue with you there. I just hope they have the good sense not to do it.

OldXOhio
07-15-2011, 05:12 PM
Don't get me wrong. I don't really want Izzy either, but it seems like a Reds style move. Ties to the GM & owner, won't take much to acquire, cheap moneywise and keeps him away from a Division rival.

Wouldn't it be in our best interest for him to land on a division rival?

steig
07-15-2011, 05:39 PM
Plus, relief pitching is so mercurial in nature that you often don't get anything close to what you thought you were paying for.

Exactly, it seems to me like every team should be able to develop middle relief pitchers. I only advocate getting relief help mid season if that is the single area that the team needs help and it will help to push the team to championship contenders.

mth123
07-15-2011, 06:52 PM
Who in the bullpen is Isringhausen and upgrade over exactly?

Probably nobody, but you have a GM who has a history with him in not one but two of his previous organizations, has flirted with him here already and the team surely percieves a need for somebody with "closing experience" as insurance for Cordero this year and as a fall back for 2012 after Cordero is gone.

RedRoser
07-15-2011, 10:40 PM
Looks like we COULD use some relief help, but more than anything we need players who will get the job done when we have runners on and chances to score. Time after time after time, this team leaves runners on base, often with the bases loaded or second and third and no outs and we just simply can't get it done. Twice or more tonight we could've put the Cards away and nobody stepped up to do it.
I don't like Dusty as a manager; never have. Players have to get it done, I know. But even with that said, ultimately, responsibility lies with the manager.
It's getting painfully too obvious---this team is going to slide further and further down the standings this season. And that makes me sad.:(

RedRoser
07-16-2011, 10:32 AM
Wow...
Brandon Phillips took me from such a deep feeling of frustration to near euphoria with one swing, just a few minutes after I had posted my reply above.
For now, things are good in Cincy! :)

klw
07-19-2011, 03:28 PM
Morosi gives us some names.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/sources_reds_interested_in_jimenez_middle_relief/5612356


Meanwhile, sources said, the Reds have had internal discussions about a number of middle and setup relievers. The list includes Jim Johnson and Koji Uehara of the Baltimore Orioles; Jason Isringhausen of the New York Mets; Jason Frasor of the Toronto Blue Jays; and Todd Coffey of the Washington Nationals. ... Seattle Mariners closer Brandon League is another intriguing option, since he could take over as the Reds’ closer in the event Francisco Cordero departs as a free agent after this season

Bob Borkowski
07-19-2011, 03:38 PM
Morosi gives us some names.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/sources_reds_interested_in_jimenez_middle_relief/5612356

Good grief! Todd Coffey??

Kc61
07-19-2011, 03:41 PM
Hard for me to see why the Reds need set up men. The ones they have are pretty good, I think.

With all the team's problems, they are looking for set up men?

Guacarock
07-19-2011, 03:49 PM
The Orioles' Jim Johnson should be our prime target. He's a workhorse who has already notched 56 innings in 42 outings with a stingy 2.73 ERA. He's collected 38 KO to 11 BB, and has a groundball/flyout ratio of 2.44 that would suit him well at GABP. He's also a solid fielder who hasn't committed an error in three years. What's more, he's making less than $1 million, and could be retained two more seasons. His pitching style also differs enough from our existing relievers to add another dimension to our bullpen.

Coffey and Isringhausen have also been quite serviceable this season, but don't seem like as good a fit for the Reds or as likely to remain valuable in the future. Besides, we've been there, done that with both of them.

Guacarock
07-19-2011, 03:51 PM
Hard for me to see why the Reds need set up men. The ones they have are pretty good, I think.

With all the team's problems, they are looking for set up men?

Could be that Arredondo will be out longer than his initial 15-day stretch on the DL.

REDREAD
07-19-2011, 03:56 PM
Could be that Arredondo will be out longer than his initial 15-day stretch on the DL.

Not only that, but Masset and Logan O could use some reliable help in the middle innings in a close game.

Chapman is still not completely trustworthy, and Arrendondo is a crapshoot as well (when healthy).

Joseph
07-19-2011, 03:56 PM
Could be that Arredondo will be out longer than his initial 15-day stretch on the DL.

Not to mention he just hasn't been impressive. 1.44 WHIP is ugly. 3 ERA is good. 15BB in just 23 IP is not good. Simply too many baserunners.

Will M
07-19-2011, 06:00 PM
Morosi gives us some names.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/sources_reds_interested_in_jimenez_middle_relief/5612356

Koji Uehara would be my target if I was Walt. He is available, has a reasonable salary, has closer experience & is signed for 2012. Oh, and he is flat out dominant.

Kc61
07-19-2011, 06:04 PM
I wouldn't give up a lot for a set up man.

Reds have Masset, Bray, Ondrusek, Chapman as the main guys with Lecure backing them up. (That's not even counting Arredondo.)

That's five pretty reliable set up men.

Not exactly a position of need.

Unless a reliever is being traded from the Reds. Then you'll need a replacement.

I(heart)Freel
07-19-2011, 06:08 PM
Remember the Rolen deal.

Walt makes deadline moves as much for the following year as the current one. He could get a closer-to-be at this deadline, so he doesn't have to spend the off-season dabbling in free agency for a closer, over-spending in both years+dollars.

Kc61
07-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Remember the Rolen deal.

Walt makes deadline moves as much for the following year as the current one. He could get a closer-to-be at this deadline, so he doesn't have to spend the off-season dabbling in free agency for a closer, over-spending in both years+dollars.

Yes, a closer type I can see. That would make more sense.