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View Full Version : Heisey, Playing Time, and Conspiracy Theories



jnewm777
07-15-2011, 09:00 AM
Dusty's ongoing refusal to play Heisey despite a BA about 40 points higher and essentially the same power production in alot fewer plate appearances, along with far superior defense than Gomes is a real headscratcher. Walt Jocketty strikes me as the kind of GM who never tells his field manager who to play. But then again, maybe Jocketty never had a field manager with such a gift for missing the obvious. That said could not telling Dusty who to play be part of a plan of giving him enough rope to hang himself and to get rid of him at the end of the season? I've had the impression that Walt is not really a Dusty fan (a one-year contract extension offer when your team makes the playoffs for the first time in 15 years seemed designed to get him to move on) and this would give him an excuse to cut him loose at the end of the season. Just a thought.

mroby85
07-15-2011, 10:43 AM
Dusty's ongoing refusal to play Heisey despite a BA about 40 points higher and essentially the same power production in alot fewer plate appearances, along with far superior defense than Gomes is a real headscratcher. Walt Jocketty strikes me as the kind of GM who never tells his field manager who to play. But then again, maybe Jocketty never had a field manager with such a gift for missing the obvious. That said could not telling Dusty who to play be part of a plan of giving him enough rope to hang himself and to get rid of him at the end of the season? I've had the impression that Walt is not really a Dusty fan (a one-year contract extension offer when your team makes the playoffs for the first time in 15 years seemed designed to get him to move on) and this would give him an excuse to cut him loose at the end of the season. Just a thought.

While I agree that Heisey is the best option right now, I don't feel he's been so good that a conspiracy theory must be involved to keep him off the field. If Jocketty is giving Dusty rope to hang himself, he should just worry about his own job instead. Maybe if he gave Dusty more pieces to work with, he could be successful with them just like he was in San Francisco, and Chicago before he was successful here last year. I think losing Orlando Cabrera and Arthur Rhodes has hurt this team more than anyone even knows. Look at all the 1 run losses they have this year. Orlando's attitude and Arthurs automatic shutdown inning would've played a huge part being more successful in that area. Like I said though, I do agree that Heisey should be playing, I just don't think its so obvious that he's superior to everyone else out there that he has forced his way into the lineup every day. Sometimes numbers don't project the way they do as a smaller sample size, just my opinion.

brm7675
07-15-2011, 10:59 AM
You have to understand where Dusty is coming from. First off he values veteran creaminess over youth every day and twice on Sunday. Second he views Heisey value more off the bench due to how successful he has been then playing everyday because then his bench isn't as strong. Third Dusty sees what Gomes did at the start of the 2010 season adn really believes deep down that is the real Gomes and we are just waiting for that Gomes to reappear.

Stray
07-15-2011, 11:17 AM
How does this always fall back on Gomes? I got it early in the season but he really doesn't start that often anymore. If there is a guy in that platoon that Dusty is starting more than the others it is Chris Heisey.

swaisuc
07-15-2011, 11:55 AM
How does this always fall back on Gomes? I got it early in the season but he really doesn't start that often anymore. If there is a guy in that platoon that Dusty is starting more than the others it is Chris Heisey.

No kidding, Gomes has started 12 times in LF since June 1st.
Heisey 11
Lewis 14

All have a few other starts as well in CF,RF,DH.
The idea that Gomes is still getting run out there every day in LF is one of the more bizarre Redszone myths.

Natty Redlocks
07-15-2011, 12:11 PM
No kidding, Gomes has started 12 times in LF since June 1st.
Heisey 11
Lewis 14

All have a few other starts as well in CF,RF,DH.
The idea that Gomes is still getting run out there every day in LF is one of the more bizarre Redszone myths.

I think it's more that Heisey has never gotten the opportunity to play every day that bothers people. I tend to agree, though he looks to me more like a Cody Ross type that you'd only want playing every day if it was in CF.

I see no problem with dividing the playing time between the three, actually, though I also get the uneasy feeling Dusty is waiting for Gomes to heat up so he can reclaim the everyday job.

Redleg
07-15-2011, 12:37 PM
Heisey can not lay off a low and away curveball just like Stubbs and Gomes. If he had as many at bats as him you would see a high K rate just like Stubbs.

defender
07-15-2011, 02:09 PM
Maybe Baker is just good at getting part time players ABs in situations where they are likely to succeed. Every time Baker spot plays a young player and they do well, we hear: "Baker will always give his veterens more ABs."

It wrong to cry veteran bias on a team that has 3 regulars that Baker has started since they were rookies, just because each year, there is one young player that Baker does not start. If we look back on the past and realize that maybe Chris Dickerson could not have been the starting CFer and that playing OCab of Janish helped the team, we can't still use that as evidence agains Baker.

FireDusty
07-15-2011, 02:24 PM
Heisey can not lay off a low and away curveball just like Stubbs and Gomes. If he had as many at bats as him you would see a high K rate just like Stubbs.

Hilarious. Stating fact on a player that has never been given a chance to prove what you say.

You could be right, or Heisey could actually learn from the regular at bats (something Stubbs & Gomes have not done) & progress as a major league hitter.

The truth is that nobody knows what heisey could do as a regular & as long as Dusty Baker is managing this team, we won't see what he can do as a Red.

Personally, if Heisey had been given the job out of Spring Training and given the same freedom to fail that Stubbs & Bruce have been given, I think he would have checked into the allstar break with 15-18 homeruns.

We'll never know.

Krawhitham
07-15-2011, 02:51 PM
Heisey
.242 as a starter
.296 as PH
.241 in June
.158 in July


Gomes
.233 as a starter
.000 as a PH
.320 in June
.133 in July

Lewis
.235 as a starter
.500 as PH
.286 in June
.250 in July

redssince75
07-15-2011, 04:46 PM
No kidding, Gomes has started 12 times in LF since June 1st.
Heisey 11
Lewis 14

All have a few other starts as well in CF,RF,DH.
The idea that Gomes is still getting run out there every day in LF is one of the more bizarre Redszone myths.

Huh? Heisey getting the least starts out of the 3 platoon-ees?

Your stats support the other side of the argument, dude.

Newman4
07-15-2011, 06:18 PM
Bah, the whole Reds outfield sans Jay Bruce is stuck in "Mediocre-land0". Arguing over who is the better .700-something player is a waste of time. Stubbs plays good defense so I guess that separates him from the others. I just wish the starting pitching could set foot in "Mediocre-land" and we'd win this suckfest of a division.