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View Full Version : Beltran ??????



wvreds
07-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Ok guys first of all I realize there is no way Beltran would be a Red after this year due to $$$ ..... With that said wouldyou get him as a big splash rental???? Perhaps this deal would work Send Alonso or Grandal(ONLY ONE OF THEM) low level prosect and throw in Fred Lewis due to his cheap contract and ask the Mets send Beltran and some cash between 5- 10 million. I realize he would be a rental but hes the power bat we need put him in LF and Heisey could get more time in CF maybe paltoon with Stubbs before he becomes starting CF .... THOUGHTS???

izzy's dad
07-16-2011, 01:31 PM
Beltran would give us some thump in left and in the 4th spot in the order. But unless we can pick up a solid arm for the rotation, or Beltran can come in and pitch every 5th day a rental is not going to put this team over the hump. I am only in favor of "renting" a player if it gives us a real shot at not only a division title, but a world title. If we were to get a Jimenez, and a Beltran then sign me up.

drowg14
07-16-2011, 01:42 PM
Beltran would give us some thump in left and in the 4th spot in the order. But unless we can pick up a solid arm for the rotation, or Beltran can come in and pitch every 5th day a rental is not going to put this team over the hump. I am only in favor of "renting" a player if it gives us a real shot at not only a division title, but a world title. If we were to get a Jimenez, and a Beltran then sign me up.

This. However this could potentially bleed our minors dry. So given one of these two, I'd go after Ubaldo.

wvreds
07-16-2011, 01:42 PM
Agree 100% i Remember Jimenez is pretty cheap I think he is only making 2.4MM..... Maybe use which ever one out of Alonso/ Grandal the mets didnt want for Colorado? On the other hand DROWG14 has a GREAT point.....

drowg14
07-16-2011, 01:49 PM
I'd be fine with parting with Alonso. Hes getting to the point where if we don't unload him or play him soon he is no longer worth much. Grandal however is worth far more than a rental Beltran IMHO. A catcher with a good stick could probably bring in a better haul in a better trade envrionment, and we still have a few years before we need to unload him if we determine Mes is our franchise catcher, and we can't find a spot for either Mes or Grandal to move to other than catcher.

So basically what I am saying is, I would be glad to part with Alonso to get a TOR. Grandal on the other hand, not so much. One thing to consider, once Ike Davis returns from the DL, the Mets probably would not have much need for an Alonso type.

wvreds
07-16-2011, 01:50 PM
.

drowg14
07-16-2011, 01:55 PM
A Jimenez guy we could sign long term would be the type of player to trade a Grandal for I believe. However I would like to explore other options first, such as Alonso :D

But if it came down to it, I would probably pull the trigger on a deal like that. It would be a whole lot easier to do so if we knew what Mes could do at The Show though.

LeDoux
07-16-2011, 02:11 PM
I cannot see any motivation for the Rockies to deal Jimenez. He's cheap. He's good. It would take more than a couple of spare parts to aquire him.

Would you be happy if the Reds dealt Cueto for some prospects you never heard of?

edit: There is also another Beltran thread and another Jimenez thread on the front page of the Sundeck.

drowg14
07-16-2011, 02:15 PM
I cannot see any motivation for the Rockies to deal Jimenez. He's cheap. He's good. It would take more than a couple of spare parts to aquire him.

Would you be happy if the Reds dealt Cueto for some prospects you never heard of?

The Jimenez speculation has come from rumors. I don't remember where they first came from, but I've seen ESPN even mention Ubaldo possibly getting moved. Would I be happy with us trading Cueto? No. But then again no one has mentioned Cueto getting traded.

bshall2105
07-16-2011, 02:15 PM
Jimenez= slightly better Volquez. Do not sell the farm unless it's for a sure thing. I would be scared to death every time Jimenez pitched in GABP.

LeDoux
07-16-2011, 02:28 PM
The Jimenez speculation has come from rumors. I don't remember where they first came from, but I've seen ESPN even mention Ubaldo possibly getting moved. Would I be happy with us trading Cueto? No. But then again no one has mentioned Cueto getting traded.

The point I was trying to make is that Jimenez will not be traded for chump change. Alonso and Wood type of proposals are way off the mark. If WJ could pull that off he would be the GM of the ages.

I also don't place much credence in ESPN and their rumors.

izzy's dad
07-16-2011, 02:39 PM
Just using Jimenez as an illustration. I think I am correct when I say that Jimenez's statistics support that his is a better pitcher than his ERA and win/loss record suggests. I have always been in favor of trading unproven minor league talent for proven major league talent. Only player in the minor league system that should be untouchable is Mesoraco. Beltran wouldn't cost nearly as much, but isn't he as big if not bigger question mark than Jimenez? Not really scared to bleed our system dry(minus mesoraco), but I am not in favor of doing just to win the NL central. Winning the World Series should be this teams only goal, and if that means Walt sells the farm for an arm or two, and a solid run producing bat, I am all in. Anything less is pointless.

Krawhitham
07-16-2011, 04:51 PM
Ken Broo claims the Reds are on Beltran's no fly list

He has a full no-trade clause

Krawhitham
07-16-2011, 04:53 PM
Jimenez would cost the farm, they want 4 plus prospects

TheBigLebowski
07-16-2011, 04:56 PM
No to Jimenez and HELL NO to Beltran. He's overpriced and an injury waiting to happen. Alonso holds a lot of value and Grandal holds even more.

Razzle
07-16-2011, 05:05 PM
Jimenez= slightly better Volquez. Do not sell the farm unless it's for a sure thing. I would be scared to death every time Jimenez pitched in GABP.

Absolutely, Jimenez has it much easier pitching in that pitcher's park in Coors... oh wait.

Tuff Nut
07-16-2011, 05:16 PM
This. However this could potentially bleed our minors dry. So given one of these two, I'd go after Ubaldo.
Don't really thinks are minors would be dry. K-Rod only cost the Brewers 2 lesser known prospects. Beltran would cost us one top level, not surprising,plus a Stubbs or Cordero, OR a couple PTBNL, and very doable.
Ubaldo, shouldn't take Cincy up the creek either. I wouldn't give up half the prospects everyone seems to throwing at this trade. Bailey/Volquez, Gomes/Lewis, and Frazier, or MiL pitcher, should be more than enough.
IF your giving away more than that, I want a Lee/Haladay/Carpenter/Verlander/ Hernandez type pitcher in return. Any of these 5+ > UBaldo.
I'd take both, IF, the price is right. The Reds have the pawns, to make things happen, and not deplete the current rash of prospects. Even so, Dayton seems to have many that could be productive by 2013, at the lastest.

bshall2105
07-16-2011, 06:30 PM
Absolutely, Jimenez has it much easier pitching in that pitcher's park in Coors... oh wait.

Look at his home numbers which are awful, and he has great road ERA nut he pitches most of his road games in San Diego, San Fran, and Los Angeles.

LeDoux
07-25-2011, 12:00 AM
Maybe someone can correct me if I misheard this, but one of the announcers in the ESPN both stated that Betran has supposedly okay'ed a trade only to 7 NL teams. Assuming that those teams are contenders, that would likely mean a list of Philadelphia, Altlanta, Milwaukee, St. Louis, San Fransico, Pheonix, Pittsburg, or Cincinnati as potential destination cities. If we can futher assume that Pittsburg is the most likely the "odd man out." The Reds might have a reasonable shot. St. Louis and Milwaukee will both have trouble scraping together the winning prospect package. I do not know how much is too much to trade for a rental like Beltran; but if there are only 4 other potenial teams, it sounds like it would be well worth placing a bid.

Girevik
07-25-2011, 08:22 AM
Two months ago (heck, even a month ago) I would have been thrilled with a rental like Beltran or Reys. At this point, though, I don't think they're just that one player away so I'd want to see whoever then get back to be around for another couple of years. I'd love to see Jimenez, but I just don't see the motivation for Colorado to move him without a boatload coming back their way.

LeDoux
07-25-2011, 02:57 PM
Two months ago (heck, even a month ago) I would have been thrilled with a rental like Beltran or Reys. At this point, though, I don't think they're just that one player away so I'd want to see whoever then get back to be around for another couple of years. I'd love to see Jimenez, but I just don't see the motivation for Colorado to move him without a boatload coming back their way.

If I thought the Reds were not the best team in the central, I wouldn't want them to trade anyone for a rental either. I would prefer they give the AAA guys an audition. But I do believe the Reds are the best in the central. And, the other approved teams don't seem to be offering much for Beltran. I don't know what 8-6 million in prospects is, but we are not talking about Mes here; a least I hope not. But what if it was Smith and Boxberger?

Two straight years of being potenial buyers at the deadline. Its a great time to be a Reds fan.

Vottomatic
07-26-2011, 04:39 PM
The price for Beltran?

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/top_prospects_no_cinch_in_beltran_KTDcqNpX3xTFeVKc xn0wIO

Okay. I would consider trading them Volquez straight up for Beltran. We'd be overpaying a bit, but I think it would put us ahead of the other suitors. Question would be if Beltran would waive his no trade clause to come to the Reds? Hmmmm.

That would fix our 4-hole hitter/LFer problem. And Beltran is a switch hitter. The thinking would be not only do you get a good hitter in Beltran, it might help get Votto jumpstarted too with some protection behind him. Kills 2 birds with one stone.

And then if the price comes down for either Shields or Jimenez, and the Reds get one of them.........Reds might be in the driver's seat in the Central.

Stay tuned.

Girevik
07-26-2011, 05:24 PM
No way would I trade Volquez for a 2 month rental.

Red Raindog
07-26-2011, 05:34 PM
No way would I trade Volquez for a 2 month rental.

And I understand there are no draft picks attached to Beltran when he walks --- so no -- as much as he would help this year I don't want to pay much for him

brm7675
07-26-2011, 06:34 PM
The price for Beltran?

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/top_prospects_no_cinch_in_beltran_KTDcqNpX3xTFeVKc xn0wIO

Okay. I would consider trading them Volquez straight up for Beltran. We'd be overpaying a bit, but I think it would put us ahead of the other suitors. Question would be if Beltran would waive his no trade clause to come to the Reds? Hmmmm.

That would fix our 4-hole hitter/LFer problem. And Beltran is a switch hitter. The thinking would be not only do you get a good hitter in Beltran, it might help get Votto jumpstarted too with some protection behind him. Kills 2 birds with one stone.

And then if the price comes down for either Shields or Jimenez, and the Reds get one of them.........Reds might be in the driver's seat in the Central.

Stay tuned.

So you give up EV for what? Adding a player that when it is all said and done doesn't improve our ability that much and we still finish in either 3rd of 4th place and then he leaves? Not on your life, no chance I even consider Beltran for anything more then a A or AA level player at best and even then I doubt I consider it.

R_Webb18
07-26-2011, 06:43 PM
So you give up EV for what? Adding a player that when it is all said and done doesn't improve our ability that much and we still finish in either 3rd of 4th place and then he leaves? Not on your life, no chance I even consider Beltran for anything more then a A or AA level player at best and even then I doubt I consider it.

agree with this. maybe if we were in 1st or tied. I don't think we can afford to give a prospect and not even make the playoffs.

Vottomatic
07-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Comical that people don't think Beltran couldn't help this team win the Central. Simply comical. He protects Votto and Votto's numbers would improve.

brm7675
07-26-2011, 07:17 PM
Comical that people don't think Beltran couldn't help this team win the Central. Simply comical. He protects Votto and Votto's numbers would improve.

And that is still not enough for this team to leap over 3 other teams....

Vottomatic
07-26-2011, 08:58 PM
And that is still not enough for this team to leap over 3 other teams....

Do you actually believe the stuff you write? :confused:

Beltran solidifies the 4-hole and protects Votto. The offense is partially struggling because Votto gets nothing to hit.

Get Votto something to hit, and have the guy behind him actually hit too.........and this offense takes off.

Girevik
07-26-2011, 09:20 PM
Comical that people don't think Beltran couldn't help this team win the Central. Simply comical. He protects Votto and Votto's numbers would improve.

I think he could help the team. Maybe enough to win the cental. But nowhere near enough to win the world series. If they make a trade I want it to be one that will help the next couple years as well, not just for the rest of this season.

WillRich
07-26-2011, 09:30 PM
Beltrans price isn't very high so we wouldn't have to give up any top notch prospects to get him. He would solidify our Left Field spot and our lineup. I would be fine with giving up Alonso and maybe another player for him. In my opinion he would help us pass a few teams and really get back to the postseason

Vottomatic
07-27-2011, 04:37 PM
Another missed opportunity by Walt and the Reds.

Same story, different day.

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 04:39 PM
Another missed opportunity by Walt and the Reds.

Same story, different day.

why would you want him?

LeDoux
07-27-2011, 04:42 PM
I was hoping the Reds would go after Beltran if the price was right, but to outbid the Giants would have cost too much. I am glad Walt passed on this.

R_Webb18
07-27-2011, 04:45 PM
I was hoping the Reds would go after Beltran if the price was right, but to outbid the Giants would have cost too much. I am glad Walt passed on this.

should we give up on season no but should we trade for a player like beltron 5 games back when hes a free agent next year no imo. just me. if were gonna trade for someone it has to be for this + atleast next.

Vottomatic
07-27-2011, 04:46 PM
why would you want him?

Until the Reds get a bonafide 4-hole hitter, they are not only wasting their time on their wannabe 4-hole hitters (who aren't qualified) but they are wasting Votto, who is not getting any pitches to hit, and now he is swinging at bad pitches just to make something happen.

This team will GO NO WHERE without a bonafide 4-hole hitter. It has been a major problem since last year. Last year everything went right and Rolen actually had a good first half, which hid the fact they really weren't in good position at the 4-hole. I made strong comments about it in the offseason, and wouldn't you know it, it is a huge black eye like I predicted.

Is Beltran the best answer? No. But who else is available that is a legit 4-hole hitter? NOBODY. And Beltran wouldn't have cost that much.

I know the argument is that he is a rental player. Many contenders have traded for rental players in the past to get them into the playoffs.

So I pretty much can label everyone who didn't want Beltran as believing the Reds can't win this thing with him or without him. In fact, alot of fans on here don't EVEN SEEM TO REALIZE that the 4-hole may be the biggest problem with this team, which it is.

kg112686
07-27-2011, 04:47 PM
I was hoping the Reds would go after Beltran if the price was right, but to outbid the Giants would have cost too much. I am glad Walt passed on this.

completely agree. the giants gave up a consensus top 40 prospect in pitcher Zach Wheeler to get him. for that team with that horrible offense and that strong pitching rotation it might be worth it but i would have been worth it for the reds