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View Full Version : Reds linked again to Ryan Ludwick, relief



Brutus
07-18-2011, 04:07 PM
According to Jon Heyman's column today.

Reds and Phillies have been in talks with the Padres, with reportedly San Diego more interested in hearing out Cincinnati.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/18/ubaldo.jimenez.rockies/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1


The Phillies and Reds are said to match best with the Padres since both those teams seek a righthanded-hitting outfielder and relief help. The Padres seem of a mind to hear what the Reds might offer since the match is probably best with them, but Cincinnati is more methodical in its dealings than Philly GM Ruben Amaro, who is in the Whitey Herzog school of direct dealing. The Cardinals, Yankees, Angels and White Sox are believed to be the other teams talking to the Padres about bullpen help. San Diego is relief central, with Heath Bell, Mike Adams and Chad Qualls. They also have outfielder Ryan Ludwick, who could help the Giants, Braves, Pirates or Indians as well as the Reds or Phillies. Reds GM Walt Jocketty has ties to Ludwick from St. Louis.

Mario-Rijo
07-18-2011, 04:14 PM
According to Jon Heyman's column today.

Reds and Phillies have been in talks with the Padres, with reportedly San Diego more interested in hearing out Cincinnati.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/18/ubaldo.jimenez.rockies/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1

Sounds pretty promising for a change. Hope Walt doesn't feel inclined to give up way too much for these guys though, no Mesoraco Walt! And for that matter no one who can help right now or soon (like Sappelt).

Johnny Footstool
07-18-2011, 04:19 PM
Ludwick's stock is very, very low right now. Of course, so is his performance, but he seems like the type who would explode after a change of scenery. The Padres would probably dump him for a no-namer.

RedsManRick
07-18-2011, 04:24 PM
I don't understand the interest in Ludwick. He's a 33 year old who hasn't been good since his BABIP fueled 2008. What value does he bring to the table above and beyond what you can get from Heisey? I'd certainly prefer him to Gomes, but at what cost? If it's more than, say, Matt Maloney and lower minors relief prospect, I'm not interested.

Always Red
07-18-2011, 04:24 PM
Ludwick's stock is very, very low right now. Of course, so is his performance, but he seems like the type who would explode after a change of scenery. The Padres would probably dump him for a no-namer.

I really don't want to add Ryan Ludwick to our stable of average LF'ers. I don't think he's much of an upgrade, if any, over Gomes at this point.

Reds1
07-18-2011, 04:25 PM
YUK! This is no upgrade

Brutus
07-18-2011, 04:29 PM
I really don't want to add Ryan Ludwick to our stable of average LF'ers. I don't think he's much of an upgrade, if any, over Gomes at this point.

At first glance, I don't blame you for that position.

But consider that Ludwick's OPS+, which is OPS adjusted for league and ballpark, is average right now. If you take him out of Petco and put him in GABP (where he's hit well in his career to the tune of .921), and out of the Padres awful lineup and in between Votto & Bruce, I really believe he would be a solid acquisition.

Ludwick would be, arguably, a smallish upgrade offensively but would be a better defensive player in left than Gomes.

I actually think Ludwick could be bought very low and be a solid addition.

Mario-Rijo
07-18-2011, 04:35 PM
I don't understand the interest in Ludwick. He's a 33 year old who hasn't been good since his BABIP fueled 2008. What value does he bring to the table above and beyond what you can get from Heisey? I'd certainly prefer him to Gomes, but at what cost? If it's more than, say, Matt Maloney and lower minors relief prospect, I'm not interested.

Well he has some pop and he has some experience, I believe he is a bit better hitter than Heisey at this juncture and he is a better fielder than Gomes. I wouldn't give up much for him but I would think he upgrades us a bit and for a song I'll take that, he is better suited to hit 4th for us than anyone else we have currently. I like Heisey coming off the bench right now and in the playoffs or just late in the season trying to make them we might actually have to use Heisey in CF if Stubbs is scuffling.

LoganBuck
07-18-2011, 04:41 PM
At first glance, I don't blame you for that position.

But consider that Ludwick's OPS+, which is OPS adjusted for league and ballpark, is average right now. If you take him out of Petco and put him in GABP (where he's hit well in his career to the tune of .921), and out of the Padres awful lineup and in between Votto & Bruce, I really believe he would be a solid acquisition.

Ludwick would be, arguably, a smallish upgrade offensively but would be a better defensive player in left than Gomes.

I actually think Ludwick could be bought very low and be a solid addition.

I agree, he is hitting something like .122 in July. We are talking fungo bats and dirty socks for Ludwick. He is the kind of guy that gets tossed into a deal to take a player like Adams.

cinreds21
07-18-2011, 04:42 PM
I'd do DT and Maloney for Ludwick but that's it.

Benihana
07-18-2011, 04:49 PM
I really don't want to add Ryan Ludwick to our stable of average LF'ers. I don't think he's much of an upgrade, if any, over Gomes at this point.

x2

Unfortunately I see Ludwick as the most likely player the Reds will acquire.

I'd much prefer Ubaldo, even with the considerably higher price tag.

LoganBuck
07-18-2011, 04:55 PM
x2

Unfortunately I see Ludwick as the most likely player the Reds will acquire.

I'd much prefer Ubaldo, even with the considerably higher price tag.

On the surface I would agree with you. I think Ludwick really needs out of San Diego. Once he was traded last season the Cardinals went into a funk, and so did Ludwick. He knows the central, was a good to very good bat as recently as last July, a cheap pickup, and is right in Walt's wheelhouse. I would be onboard. Gotta roll the dice here. Especially if he is going to be acquired for peanuts.

HokieRed
07-18-2011, 04:57 PM
Hate to say it, but if they acquire Ludwick I think it will be mainly to appear to be doing something. Play Chris Heisey and get it over with.

pahster
07-18-2011, 04:59 PM
At first glance, I don't blame you for that position.

But consider that Ludwick's OPS+, which is OPS adjusted for league and ballpark, is average right now. If you take him out of Petco and put him in GABP (where he's hit well in his career to the tune of .921), and out of the Padres awful lineup and in between Votto & Bruce, I really believe he would be a solid acquisition.

Ludwick would be, arguably, a smallish upgrade offensively but would be a better defensive player in left than Gomes.

I actually think Ludwick could be bought very low and be a solid addition.

OPS+ is park adjusted, though, so why would you expect it to improve once he leaves San Diego? Is it just because of "protection?" I'm not aware of any evidence that protection actually exists.

mdccclxix
07-18-2011, 05:05 PM
Isn't it possible the Reds could get Ludwick in a package deal for one of their relievers as well? I'm listening if that's the case.

Mario-Rijo
07-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Isn't it possible the Reds could get Ludwick in a package deal for one of their relievers as well? I'm listening if that's the case.

Seems like Qualls or Bell are the prime ones to deal for, they want a ton for Mike Adams, from what I understand they expect to procure a top 10-12 (in the majors) level prospect for him. In essence Mesoraco for Adams, that would be an awful deal. I like Adams but he once washed out of Milwaukee after hitting Reds SS Pedro Lopez (I think that was the kids name). He was solid for Milwaukee in season one (3.48 era) but not like he is now and he is 32 already. His numbers are greatly helped by Petco & that divisions parks IMO.

Brutus
07-18-2011, 05:23 PM
x2

Unfortunately I see Ludwick as the most likely player the Reds will acquire.

I'd much prefer Ubaldo, even with the considerably higher price tag.

The Reds could likely get Ludwick as a throw-in for Adams, Bell or one of the Padres relievers in general.

I wholeheartedly agree he's not the most "likely" guy, but he can be had in addition to anyone else they might get. I don't believe it's an either-or proposition.

TRF
07-18-2011, 05:37 PM
Ok, this is just my opinion...

I'm hinking the Reds want to see at least 2 starts from Willis before deciding on if they even need to make a move for a SP. Leake has been fairly solid since his return and has a new found ability to actually K a few batters. He has NOT been the groundball machine he's been advertised, but he's solid at #5. Arroyo has been a disaster, one I attribute to his bout of Mono. But he's a sunk cost money and performance wise. In other words, he ain't going anywhere. Cueto and Bailey are #1 and #2 right now.

Willis is the wildcard. If he can give the reds 2 excellent starts, it rejuvenates the rotation. Volquez can work on his control in Louisville. I've always maintained he wouldn't be 100% until late this year, and possibly not until next year. Oh, and I'd start stretching Chapman out. Soon. He's needed in the rotation.

As for LF, Pass on Ludwick. Just play Heisey. But if it is Ludwick AND Bell, then yep. don't overspend, but get Bell.

Tom Servo
07-18-2011, 08:15 PM
I think Ludwick could rake in the GABP. At the very least he'd be Gomes with stronger defense.

reds44
07-18-2011, 08:19 PM
He was OPSing .827 in St. Louis last year before he got traded. Not a bad guy to buy low on.

JaxRed
07-18-2011, 08:39 PM
According to Jon Heyman's column today.

Reds and Phillies have been in talks with the Padres, with reportedly San Diego more interested in hearing out Cincinnati.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/18/ubaldo.jimenez.rockies/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1

Actually based on that piece the Reds have NOT been in talks with the Padres. But it seems the Reds are looking and Pads have what they are looking for. So Pads sit by phone.

Brutus
07-18-2011, 09:05 PM
Actually based on that piece the Reds have NOT been in talks with the Padres. But it seems the Reds are looking and Pads have what they are looking for. So Pads sit by phone.

That's not how I read it. I read it as they've had preliminary discussions, but Cincinnati is being very slow to develop any serious offers yet.

Walt Jocketty, in fact, said last week they've had a lot of informal talks with teams. I see that as meaning they've exchanged pleasantries with the Padres as a heads up they're interested, but haven't really discussed offers yet.

Plus Plus
07-22-2011, 01:51 PM
Jon Heyman confirms Reds' interest in Heath Bell.


The Rangers are in talks for Heath Bell. The Cardinals, Angels and Reds are also interested. The Phillies have been connected to Bell, too, but Antonio Bastardo has been lights out, Ryan Madson is coming back and Brad Lidge may be, as well. So Philly's bullpen situation isn't bad as it is.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/22/around.the.majors/index.html#ixzz1SqzkVcwc

Will M
07-22-2011, 01:59 PM
Jon Heyman confirms Reds' interest in Heath Bell.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/22/around.the.majors/index.html#ixzz1SqzkVcwc

odd. i would think that the Reds could get an arm for the pen cheaply thereby saving the trade chips for a big bat or ace starter. Bell is going to cost more than say Uehara or Jason Frasor. i am not sure what the Reds are thinking here.

LoganBuck
07-22-2011, 03:23 PM
i am not sure what the Reds are thinking here.

Walt is an old school GM. He also has an axe to grind against St. Louis. If he drives the cost up on St. Louis, or prevents them from fixing that hideous bullpen they have, more power to him. Odds are he takes Ludwick as the sweetener to the deal from San Diego. They get out from under an overpaid/underperforming guy, while the Reds get a guy who may like escaping all things NL West.

Will M
07-22-2011, 03:59 PM
Walt is an old school GM. He also has an axe to grind against St. Louis. If he drives the cost up on St. Louis, or prevents them from fixing that hideous bullpen they have, more power to him. Odds are he takes Ludwick as the sweetener to the deal from San Diego. They get out from under an overpaid/underperforming guy, while the Reds get a guy who may like escaping all things NL West.

hmmm.

Phase 1: Bell & Ludwick to the Reds. Gomes to the Braves
Phase 2:
Phase 3: repeat as NL Central Champs

For me we would still be short left handed bats and that ace sure would be nice. As much as phase 1 may help the team it would have to be part of a broader strategy.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-22-2011, 04:35 PM
Is Bell a free agent after the year or could he potentially be the closer here in 2012, if we acquire him?

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2011, 04:44 PM
Is Bell a free agent after the year or could he potentially be the closer here in 2012, if we acquire him?

I believe he is a FA, he has avoided arbitration 3 times with S.D. according to Cots.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/san-diego-padres.html