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brm7675
07-18-2011, 07:20 PM
Out of the 48 games the Reds have lost this season so far, in 21 of those the pitching staff gave up 4 runs or less. So...if our offense was just consistant I am will to bet we win at least half or even 75% of those games, so instead of being 47-48 we would be around 57-60 wins on the season and where would that put us? Yes our pitching has struggled, but come on 21 games our offense couldn't put up 5 runs?

mr. red
07-18-2011, 07:34 PM
Out of the 48 games the Reds have lost this season so far, in 21 of those the pitching staff gave up 4 runs or less. So...if our offense was just consistant I am will to bet we win at least half or even 75% of those games, so instead of being 47-48 we would be around 57-60 wins on the season and where would that put us? Yes our pitching has struggled, but come on 21 games our offense couldn't put up 5 runs?

So in 27 of those 48 games, our pitching staff couldn't give up 4 or fewer runs?

I'm sorry, but the team has been lousy. Pitching and hitting alike. But if you look at the hitting success, it massively outweighs the pitching success.

brm7675
07-18-2011, 07:45 PM
So in 27 of those 48 games, our pitching staff couldn't give up 4 or fewer runs?

I'm sorry, but the team has been lousy. Pitching and hitting alike. But if you look at the hitting success, it massively outweighs the pitching success.

If my pitching staff can keep the opposition to 4 runs or less, I will take that every night and twice on Sunday. If our offense did it's job, we should average 5 runs a game, but we dont, we put up 9 runs in one and follow that up with outputs of 1,2.1.3.1. Sorry while our pitching has struggled, we are at sub. 500 because of our offense, not the pitching.

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 07:53 PM
not another one of these threads.

Its silly to cherry pick only the losses and not look at who was the cause for the wins. Since were all about arbitrarily picking cutoff points for runs, Ill say 4 or more is a victory for the offense if the Reds win and if Reds score 3 or less and win, then its a "victory by the pitching."

The Total gives us for the REDS 47 wins

Reds Pitching won 8 games when offense scores 3 or less
Reds Offense won 39 games when offense scores 4 or more

This type of stuff is asinine, DUCY?


What is relevant, is the REDS are 16-29 when they score exactly 2,3,4, or 5 runs

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 08:07 PM
For point of reference, some other teams that are doing pretty well this year, this is their record when scoring exactly 2,3,4, or 5 runs

For pt of reference, some other teams records in games they score exactly 2,3,4 or 5 runs

Giants 37-23
Braves 34-25
Brewers 24-23
Cards 26-24
Red Sox 22-18
Yanks 26-24
Phillies 33-19


Still think the O is the prob?

Maybe the pitching should be winning some more games when the offense has a normal night off. The entire idea of consistency of run scoring its funny. I havent ran the numbers, but Id be really surprised if theres some insanely diff std deviation of runs scored for the reds compared to say who? Please, tell me which team has this amazing consistent offense, bc every single "good" offense in the MLB would be labeled inconsistent by people who say things like the OP.

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Cardinals gave up 4 or less runs in 11 of their 45 losses.
Brewers gave up 4 or less runs in 14 of their 45 losses.
Braves gave up 4 or less runs in 14 of their 39 losses.

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 08:11 PM
This is one of those situations where stats don't tell the picture. The offense clearly is the problem if you actually watch the games and have a clue about baseball.

The more pertinent stat is that this team is batting .210 with RISP.

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 08:19 PM
This is one of those situations where stats don't tell the picture. The offense clearly is the problem if you actually watch the games and have a clue about baseball.

The more pertinent stat is that this team is batting .210 with RISP.

nice try at the subtle stab. Youre clearly wrong.

Off score 3 runs or less # of times
Braves 43
Brewers 38
Cards 37
Phillies 49
Yanks 29
Red Sox 28
Reds 41
Giants 56

==============

Off Score 5 or more
Reds 44
Red Sox 47
yanks 50
Giants 30
Brewers 41
Cardinals 46
Braves 35

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 08:28 PM
nice try at the subtle stab. Youre clearly wrong.

Off score 3 runs or less # of times
Braves 43
Brewers 38
Cards 37
Phillies 49
Yanks 29
Red Sox 28
Reds 41
Giants 56

==============

Off Score 5 or more
Reds 44
Red Sox 47
yanks 50
Giants 30
Brewers 41
Cardinals 46
Braves 35

I listen to intelligent people and they were talking on the pregame show that the offense clearly is the problem because they are hitting .210 with RISP, 18 points below league average. They stated the stats on the show.

This team pads it's stats against bad pitchers and can't hit when it counts.

Everyone but you knows that including the smart baseball people who cover the team. Sorry, but you're wrong. :p

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 08:32 PM
I listen to intelligent people and they were talking on the pregame show that the offense clearly is the problem because they are hitting .210 with RISP, 18 points below league average. They stated the stats on the show.

This team pads it's stats against bad pitchers and can't hit when it counts.

Everyone but you knows that including the smart baseball people who cover the team. Sorry, but you're wrong. :p


keep drinking the kool aid. im sure marty and whatever washed up analyst you listened to are thinking about baseball in a very non emotional and statistical manner.

If you want to use stats, dear lord, pointing to of all things, BA with RISP as being the problem with the offense, is so mind numbingly dumb that im convinced youre leveling. But you probably dont even know what that means

If not, i really feel sorry for you. And yes, its reds fans like you that are the problem with this fan base that just regurgitate whatever nonsense they hear on the radio as if Marty or some other analyst is god. Try looking at the entire picture for once in your life. It might open your eyes.

Vottomatic
07-18-2011, 08:34 PM
keep drinking the kool aid. im sure marty and whatever washed up analyst you listened to are thinking about baseball in a very non emotional and statistical manner.

If you want to use stats, dear lord, pointing to of all things, BA with RISP as being the problem with the offense, is so mind numbingly dumb that im convinced youre leveling. But you probably dont even know what that means

If not, i really feel sorry for you. And yes, its reds fans like you that are the problem with this fan base that just regurgitate whatever nonsense they hear on the radio as if Marty or some other analyst is god. Try looking at the entire picture for once in your life. It might open your eyes.

It was on TV. Oops! D'oh! Blew your comment out of the water!!!! Woo-hoo!!!

Marty is on TV. Yikes.

Again, you must be Dusty's son. BA with RISP is so mind numbingly dumb? I guess OBP is stupid too? Hmmm.

Ervin eh? 84? Is that when you were born or your baseball IQ.

I can do this all day.

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 08:39 PM
god this is like talking to a 7 year old. You took a discussion and turned it into a personal piss fest. Glad to see a 40 something year old troll takes enough time out of his day to post 2000 some times on a forum just to try and get in arguments. Im sure your life is wonderful

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 08:52 PM
anyways, back on topic.

If you or anyone can actually give a rational and logical explanation as to why the Reds have such a horrid record in comparison to the other good teams when scoring exactly 2,3,4 or 5 runs, Id really appreciate the explanation.

lidspinner
07-18-2011, 09:27 PM
This is one of those situations where stats don't tell the picture. The offense clearly is the problem if you actually watch the games and have a clue about baseball.

The more pertinent stat is that this team is batting .210 with RISP.

id like to introduce you all to the winner.....RISP is this teams problem....

ervinsm84
07-18-2011, 09:29 PM
no clutch gene obv

redssince75
07-18-2011, 09:39 PM
Out of the 48 games the Reds have lost this season so far, in 21 of those the pitching staff gave up 4 runs or less. So...if our offense was just consistant I am will to bet we win at least half or even 75% of those games, so instead of being 47-48 we would be around 57-60 wins on the season and where would that put us? Yes our pitching has struggled, but come on 21 games our offense couldn't put up 5 runs?

I thought I already did this thread, but with a little better definition of the issues......

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90597

And ervin tried to make the same silly args in my thread, I guess there are none so blind as those who will not see.

webbbj
07-18-2011, 09:48 PM
the offense is fine its just variance right now the situational hitting will come. the pitching has been a problem, you need your pitching to win its fair share of games when the offense scores 3 runs or less.

Boss-Hog
07-18-2011, 10:35 PM
I'd suggest attempting to play nice rather than some of the nonsense I've seen in this forum as of late. Don't say you weren't given fair warning...

redssince75
07-18-2011, 10:47 PM
id like to introduce you all to the winner.....RISP is this teams problem....


Being proven YET AGAIN tonight. Votto & Lid, you're on it.

redssince75
07-18-2011, 10:48 PM
If you or anyone can actually give a rational and logical explanation as to why the Reds have such a horrid record in comparison to the other good teams when scoring exactly 2,3,4 or 5 runs, Id really appreciate the explanation.

Because our offense leaves more ducks on the pond than anyone since Elmer Fudd.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 07:06 AM
Being proven YET AGAIN tonight. Votto & Lid, you're on it.

Thank you.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 10:53 AM
Wow now 22 out of 49 and growing and people think we need pitching help? this offense needs a total infusion of something and the withdraw of a specific person ASAP. Charlie Morton has thrown 23 inings against the Reds so far this season...anyone wanna guess how many runs we have scored against his so far? Anyone....anyone?

brm7675
07-19-2011, 10:58 AM
anyways, back on topic.

If you or anyone can actually give a rational and logical explanation as to why the Reds have such a horrid record in comparison to the other good teams when scoring exactly 2,3,4 or 5 runs, Id really appreciate the explanation.

I am willing to bet those "other" teams have overall better pitching then the Reds. The Reds have issues with their starting pitching this year no question and in many games has put the team in the hole so to speak from the first inning on and maybe forced the offense into being more aggressive and thus swinging at bad pitches. But I believe the pitching will improve, while I don't see the offense improving in 3 key slots and 2 key positions in the order with what and whom is on the team right now. That is why I am advocating going for offense over pitching.