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View Full Version : We will see this winter what kind of owner we have..



brm7675
07-19-2011, 11:10 AM
Well if anyone really thinks this team is going to contend for the divisional title this year really needs to see an eye doctor. While this team has some true gems in many slots, it has some very glaring issues it needs to address. So, when this team finishes in fourth at the end of the season, some 10+ games back, I will be interested to see if our owner "BOB" has the guts to take charge and make the needed changes this team needs to make and be willing to spend a tad more to get the pieces we need. This offseason will show us what type of owner we have with the Reds...:(

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 11:18 AM
Part of me thinks Bob is waiting for the Cards and Brewers to blow their wads at the trading deadline, and then lose Fielder and Pujols to free agency. It's almost like they don't believe the Reds can contend this year.

I also wonder if they're waiting to unload some payroll this offseason with Cordero coming off the books ($12M), Gomes ($1.75M), Renteria ($2M), Ramon Hernandez ($3M) and a few other small ones. Probably $20M in savings and of course, others will get raises. Which also makes me wonder if they pick up Brandon's option.

I'd actually like them to do a Rolen move before the trading deadline, and do something that helps next year as well as this year.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 11:27 AM
You really believe the Cards are not going to resign Albert?

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
You really believe the Cards are not going to resign Albert?

Why haven't they already?

I think it all comes down to the length of the deal. Obviously the amount too. But I don't think they want to be locked in for 7 or more years.

Maybe the Reds are saving their pennies and going to sign him this offseason? :p

brm7675
07-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Why haven't they already?

I think it all comes down to the length of the deal. Obviously the amount too. But I don't think they want to be locked in for 7 or more years.

Maybe the Reds are saving their pennies and going to sign him this offseason? :p

I doubt there are any talks going on, No team other then the Cards are going to give Albert 10 years.

Girevik
07-19-2011, 12:10 PM
Why haven't they already?

Pujols said durring spring training that he wasn't going to negoiate during the season.

bshall2105
07-19-2011, 02:07 PM
Pujols said durring spring training that he wasn't going to negoiate during the season.

That's true but I think that a deal would have gotten done before the season if it was a done deal he is staying with the Cardinals. This is not a Peyton Manning situation where everyone knows that he's staying with the Colts. Teams actually think they have a slight chance to sign Pujols in the off season.

Kingspoint
07-19-2011, 02:21 PM
Sure glad we have all of these Veterans.

That Rolen contract was a joke that was easy to see would come back to bite the team in 2011. The guys just sucks because he's too darn old and crippled.

Renteria is hitting .230/.305/.277 through his first 169 plate appearances this season, it's fair to wonder why Renteria was ever given a REDS uniform to wear in the first place.

Gomes is a joke.

None of the Veterans are getting "timely" hits, and isn't that why they are supposed to be on the team? Get rid of them all. Get rid of Cairo, too. How fat is that guy? He'd split his pants if he actually bent over to get to a ball.

Razzle
07-19-2011, 02:42 PM
That's true but I think that a deal would have gotten done before the season if it was a done deal he is staying with the Cardinals. This is not a Peyton Manning situation where everyone knows that he's staying with the Colts. Teams actually think they have a slight chance to sign Pujols in the off season.

To me it makes plenty of sense from the Cardinals perspective. If the guy is adamant about getting 10 years, $300 mil, then why sign him before the season? (Let me be clear I don't think the Cards can afford to or are willing to go this high for Pujols) Why give a guy a contract that is the top end of what he will receive from anybody before the year? It makes more sense to wait the full year and make sure that nothing career altering or threatening happens to the guy before you offer him what your max contract would be. There was absolutely no possible way for Pujols to increase his value this year.

Todd Gack
07-19-2011, 03:33 PM
We're better off reloading for next year.

#1 Objective is finding a Top of the line starter. Nothing else matters until we address that problem.

drowg14
07-19-2011, 03:37 PM
We're better off reloading for next year.

#1 Objective is finding a Top of the line starter. Nothing else matters until we address that problem.

I think finding protection for Votto is almost as important, if not as important, as a TOR starter.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 03:37 PM
To me it makes plenty of sense from the Cardinals perspective. If the guy is adamant about getting 10 years, $300 mil, then why sign him before the season? (Let me be clear I don't think the Cards can afford to or are willing to go this high for Pujols) Why give a guy a contract that is the top end of what he will receive from anybody before the year? It makes more sense to wait the full year and make sure that nothing career altering or threatening happens to the guy before you offer him what your max contract would be. There was absolutely no possible way for Pujols to increase his value this year.

There is zero chance Albert isn't a Card next season. The Cards have to strong of a fan base to allow him to leave, he will be a Card his full career. Now is it a wise baseball move, not at all, but they will pony up the money and years.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 03:38 PM
We're better off reloading for next year.

#1 Objective is finding a Top of the line starter. Nothing else matters until we address that problem.

We have a number 1 his name is Johnny Cueto.

Todd Gack
07-19-2011, 03:57 PM
We have a number 1 his name is Johnny Cueto.

I can name 10 pitchers in the NL I'd rather have. Cueto has pitched well so far this year, but let's not get carried away. He's a #2 at best/3-type pitcher. NOthing wrong with that, I just don't believe he's a #1.

Todd Gack
07-19-2011, 04:00 PM
And as for reloading next year, ask yourself this: Can we beat the Phillies in a 7 game series? Even if it's a 'maybe,' then reload/get better for next year. No reason in trying to trade for guys who'll help us for 3-4 months. I'm in favor of trading for Jimenez, but for the right price.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 04:07 PM
I can name 10 pitchers in the NL I'd rather have. Cueto has pitched well so far this year, but let's not get carried away. He's a #2 at best/3-type pitcher. NOthing wrong with that, I just don't believe he's a #1.

what have you seen this year that leads you to think he isn't ACE material? Of those "10" you would rather have, how many are available via trade?

Todd Gack
07-19-2011, 04:12 PM
what have you seen this year that leads you to think he isn't ACE material? Of those "10" you would rather have, how many are available via trade?

Jimenez is the only one I've heard mentioned. Although he's not in the NL, Felix Hernandez is another. Either way, do you honestly think we can beat the PHillies with Cueto as a #1 and then __________ as your #2? We can beat the Phillies, but we desperately need #1-type starter.

Krawhitham
07-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Part of me thinks Bob is waiting for the Cards and Brewers to blow their wads at the trading deadline, and then lose Fielder and Pujols to free agency. It's almost like they don't believe the Reds can contend this year.

I also wonder if they're waiting to unload some payroll this offseason with Cordero coming off the books ($12M), Gomes ($1.75M), Renteria ($2M), Ramon Hernandez ($3M) and a few other small ones. Probably $20M in savings and of course, others will get raises. Which also makes me wonder if they pick up Brandon's option.

I'd actually like them to do a Rolen move before the trading deadline, and do something that helps next year as well as this year.

9 million in raises with just Votto, Bruce, Cueto

brm7675
07-19-2011, 04:25 PM
Jimenez is the only one I've heard mentioned. Although he's not in the NL, Felix Hernandez is another. Either way, do you honestly think we can beat the PHillies with Cueto as a #1 and then __________ as your #2? We can beat the Phillies, but we desperately need #1-type starter.

Yea with a rotation of Cueto/Leake/Bronson/Wood/Homer I think we can battle with the Phillies IF we improve our offense. Our offense, not our pitching is what cost us the series with them last year.

40YrRedsFan
07-19-2011, 06:21 PM
We need another starter as well as a #4 hitter. I don't know which should be the priority, but our hitting seems to be regressing whereas our pitching seems to have improved. I personally think Arroyo is on the way down, and replacing him should be high on the list. As long as we don't have a true #4 hitter, Votto will continue to be pitched around. I honestly think he will leave after the 2013 season if he doesn't see a bona fide attempt to get to a World Series by management.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 08:21 PM
That's true but I think that a deal would have gotten done before the season if it was a done deal he is staying with the Cardinals. This is not a Peyton Manning situation where everyone knows that he's staying with the Colts. Teams actually think they have a slight chance to sign Pujols in the off season.

That was my point. I already knew Pujols said he wouldn't deal during the season.

My point was why didn't the Cardinals make a stronger attempt to sign him the last couple of years?

I think there's a strong chance he returns to St. Louis. But I don't think it's a certainty. The lack of effort by the Cardinals front office to fairly sign him, and the fact they've had him pretty cheaply, is a sore spot with Albert according to sources.