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View Full Version : Trading CoCo and Hernandez?



LexRedsFan
07-19-2011, 11:22 AM
What could either of these guys bring us? Anything ML ready? Bullpen help is always a premium price, and some desperate team might overpay for Coco.

I'm not giving up yet, but I feel if the Reds got a good deal for the future (or even present if some team trades a surplus) they should absolutely do it.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 11:23 AM
You are looking at maybe a decent prospect or two at best, neither of them alone would bring anything that could have a major impact this season. Package them with something else and maybe, but then again I don't see anything great even then.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 11:31 AM
I'd consider talking to the Red Sox about them obtaining Arroyo from us. They can pay his salary. They currently have 2 starters (Lester, Buchholz) on the DL for a couple of weeks with recurring injuries (back strains). They are barely in first place and they need to shore it up.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 11:32 AM
You are looking at maybe a decent prospect or two at best, neither of them alone would bring anything that could have a major impact this season. Package them with something else and maybe, but then again I don't see anything great even then.

Not all of these proposals are just for this year. Some of us are thinking long term or next season already.

And when you have guys that are going to become free agents, the thought process is to get atleast something for them before they walk.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 12:08 PM
Not all of these proposals are just for this year. Some of us are thinking long term or next season already.

And when you have guys that are going to become free agents, the thought process is to get atleast something for them before they walk.

Sure you might get something, like maybe a Paul Householder or Eddie Miller type of player, outside of that you are not going to get much for either of them alone. To get an impact player you would have to include some more tasty players....

Girevik
07-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Trading those guys means you're throwing in the towel on this season. I'm not ready to do that yet. I want the Reds to be buyers, not sellers.

Natty Redlocks
07-19-2011, 12:21 PM
This seems like a good place to post a response to the ORG "wave a white flag" thread. Trading guys like that, as well as dumping Gomes and Renteria, and putting Rolen on the DL, and bringing up and playing guys like Alonso, Mesoraco, and Frazier? To me, that would not be giving up on this year at all. The key guys on this team aren't going anywhere, and the complementary veterans aren't making a real difference, so why not see what the kids can do? Anything would be better than continuing on this same path, hoping this group will somehow put things together.

izzy's dad
07-19-2011, 12:42 PM
This seems like a good place to post a response to the ORG "wave a white flag" thread. Trading guys like that, as well as dumping Gomes and Renteria, and putting Rolen on the DL, and bringing up and playing guys like Alonso, Mesoraco, and Frazier? To me, that would not be giving up on this year at all. The key guys on this team aren't going anywhere, and the complementary veterans aren't making a real difference, so why not see what the kids can do? Anything would be better than continuing on this same path, hoping this group will somehow put things together.

I agree. Getting rid of dead weight isn't giving up on the season. It is taking a chance on a couple very talented young players, and hoping they produce better than the veteran players they are replacing. With the production we are getting at some of these spots, it's not hard to believe that Alonso, Mesoraco, etc. could produce at similar or higher levels. It seems to me that this team is in limbo. Hovering at or below .500 with a roster made up of extremely talented young players, and washed up veterans. The Reds need to figure out what direction they are heading. Because this roster as constructed will not improve. In my opinion Walt and company screwed the pooch this offseason. What acquisition did they make this winter that improved the ball club? Bring up the young guys, trade Coco and Hernandez, and trim the fat (Renteria, Lewis, Gomes) and figure out exactly what direction your ball team is heading.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 12:52 PM
Problem is Dusty and Walt don't see Gomes, Edgar and others as dead weight, but "keys" to turning it around this season...

bounty37h
07-19-2011, 12:56 PM
This seems like a good place to post a response to the ORG "wave a white flag" thread. Trading guys like that, as well as dumping Gomes and Renteria, and putting Rolen on the DL, and bringing up and playing guys like Alonso, Mesoraco, and Frazier? To me, that would not be giving up on this year at all. The key guys on this team aren't going anywhere, and the complementary veterans aren't making a real difference, so why not see what the kids can do? Anything would be better than continuing on this same path, hoping this group will somehow put things together.

I agree, but do worry about changing up too much at catcher just yet, as it may take time to work in with a new staff, dont want to disrupt the pitchers and what they are comfortable with right now. That said, I wouldnt be upset if a good deal is made for Ramon and bring up Mes at that point, just concerned on the effect of that on rest of team vs position players.

LexRedsFan
07-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Trading those guys means you're throwing in the towel on this season. I'm not ready to do that yet. I want the Reds to be buyers, not sellers.

I disagree that it's throwing in the towel on the season. Especially in the case of Cordero, who it is highly unlikely will be a Red next season and even is at a position that isn't as much of a "need" (By a very crude definition, admittedly) for us -- I don't feel that the back end of the pen is the problem, and it wouldn't be if we traded him to cover another need, either now or in the future.

To me, there's nothing wrong with trying something knew. Stubbornness at its' finest would be to do nothing in either direction here.

brm7675
07-19-2011, 01:47 PM
Trading those guys means you're throwing in the towel on this season. I'm not ready to do that yet. I want the Reds to be buyers, not sellers.

Problem is Walt isn't willing to do what it would take to get things going, he doens't either have it in him anymore or Bob has said no more money to be spent. A "trade" won't change what is wrong with this team right now.

Girevik
07-19-2011, 02:00 PM
I disagree that it's throwing in the towel on the season. Especially in the case of Cordero, who it is highly unlikely will be a Red next season and even is at a position that isn't as much of a "need" (By a very crude definition, admittedly) for us -- I don't feel that the back end of the pen is the problem, and it wouldn't be if we traded him to cover another need, either now or in the future.

To me, there's nothing wrong with trying something knew. Stubbornness at its' finest would be to do nothing in either direction here.

I see two different threads within a thread here. I have no problem with giving guys other than Renteria and Gomes a shot, but you're not going to be able to trade them. And besides, the tile of the thread is "Trading CoCo and Hernandez?", so I wasn't thinking aobut them when I made my reply.

Moving Cordero and/or Hernandez is a different story. Any team looking to pick up those guys would be a team in the race looking to a fill a hole. They aren't going to give up anthing that's contributing to their team, so you're lookiong at getting prospects. You can HOPE that whoever you throw out there to take their place will perform as well, but I don't think that's incredily likely. So you are making the team weaker this year for a hoped for improvement down the road. To me, that is clearly throwing in the towel on this season.

Natty Redlocks
07-19-2011, 03:20 PM
I agree, but do worry about changing up too much at catcher just yet, as it may take time to work in with a new staff, dont want to disrupt the pitchers and what they are comfortable with right now. That said, I wouldnt be upset if a good deal is made for Ramon and bring up Mes at that point, just concerned on the effect of that on rest of team vs position players.

If the pitching was as good as it's supposed to be, I'd agree. But it's not. So I don't see what they have to lose. It's pretty well known that Hanigan's "catcher's ERA" (if you believe in that sort of thing) has always been significantly lower than Hernandez'. Again, it's not like they're running away with the division here.

bounty37h
07-19-2011, 03:29 PM
If the pitching was as good as it's supposed to be, I'd agree. But it's not. So I don't see what they have to lose. It's pretty well known that Hanigan's "catcher's ERA" (if you believe in that sort of thing) has always been significantly lower than Hernandez'. Again, it's not like they're running away with the division here.

No, but i think while we are still in it we shouldnt tweak that too much at this point. And if pitching isnt up to par already, getting a new catcher to familiarize themselves with at half point is even more to deal with. Esp for Cueto and Hern's spanish, as Cueto has clearly been our best pitcher this year.

Hillsdale87
07-19-2011, 04:08 PM
Problem is Dusty and Walt don't see Gomes, Edgar and others as dead weight, but "keys" to turning it around this season...

Considering that Renteria is getting very little playing time, and Gomes is now getting at most 1/3 of the playing time in LF, I don't think they're seen as keys to turning it around.

Vottomatic
07-19-2011, 08:26 PM
Releasing dead weight, soon to be free agents, and bringing up the young guys isn't raising the white flag to me either.

If the Reds aren't winning with that dead weight, then they should replace them with the young guys and see if they are the answer. Enough screwing around.

LexRedsFan
07-20-2011, 01:07 PM
Another thing I looked at about trading CoCo/Hernandez. Maybe any prospect could be included in a Jimenez deal.