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Slyder
09-26-2011, 02:54 PM
So as it stands now:

Big 12 has 9 teams
SEC has 13
Big East has 7 football schools

Is that right?

Yep, a lot of rumors flying around that at least 5 of the Big East teams already have other homes (Rutgers and UConn to ACC or Big 10, WVU to SEC or Big 12, UC and Louisville to the Big 12, USF and TCU Screwed). Theres those saying that at least the Louisville deal is suppose to be announced sometime this week.

BuckeyeRed27
09-26-2011, 04:04 PM
Yep, a lot of rumors flying around that at least 5 of the Big East teams already have other homes (Rutgers and UConn to ACC or Big 10, WVU to SEC or Big 12, UC and Louisville to the Big 12, USF and TCU Screwed). Theres those saying that at least the Louisville deal is suppose to be announced sometime this week.

Interesting. I guess we'll see how it plays out, but I don't see most of those moves being made.

If Oklahoma is going to stay and the PAC 12 doesn't want to expand than the Big 12 will grab 1 or 3 schools depending on what they want to do. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of Boise St or BYU to the Big 12.

It sounds like Missouri will be the 14th SEC member.

I'm not sure who the Big East picks up and if they lose Louisville I think that's probably it. I guess UCF, ECU, Marshall, maybe Houston?

Slyder
09-26-2011, 04:32 PM
Interesting. I guess we'll see how it plays out, but I don't see most of those moves being made.

If Oklahoma is going to stay and the PAC 12 doesn't want to expand than the Big 12 will grab 1 or 3 schools depending on what they want to do. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of Boise St or BYU to the Big 12.

It sounds like Missouri will be the 14th SEC member.

I'm not sure who the Big East picks up and if they lose Louisville I think that's probably it. I guess UCF, ECU, Marshall, maybe Houston?

Marshall will be so far down the list that the Big East will cease football before they get to them.

And at this point if the Big East loses any ONE of Louisville, WVU, USF, TCU the league is DONE. Those 4 could possibly become enough of a core to patch something together but without all 3 there is no chance I see.

I don't think Missery wants to go to the SEC, they want to go to the big 10. A big 12 with Texas and Oklahoma leaves them plenty of power as a football conference to buy them time. They are also (i heard) the head of the conference expansion committee for the Big 12 I read. I don't think they leave the Big 12 for the SEC, they would if the Big 10 called. I also think SEC is less than thrilled with any option. Combine Missery's market and WVU passion and the invite would have long ago been sent.

Texas seems to want to just go back to 10 (easier trek to BcS) the rest of the league seems to want to go to 12. I think they end up at 12.

Big East "Expansion": Army, Navy, Houston and call it a day. Puts the big east back at 8 and 8 (academy football only) for all sports. If no one else gets pilfered.

BuckeyeRed27
09-26-2011, 04:37 PM
Marshall will be so far down the list that the Big East will cease football before they get to them.

And at this point if the Big East loses any ONE of Louisville, WVU, USF, TCU the league is DONE. Those 4 could possibly become enough of a core to patch something together but without all 3 there is no chance I see.

I don't think Missery wants to go to the SEC, they want to go to the big 10. A big 12 with Texas and Oklahoma leaves them plenty of power as a football conference to buy them time. They are also (i heard) the head of the conference expansion committee for the Big 12 I read. I don't think they leave the Big 12 for the SEC, they would if the Big 10 called. I also think SEC is less than thrilled with any option. Combine Missery's market and WVU passion and the invite would have long ago been sent.

Texas seems to want to just go back to 10 (easier trek to BcS) the rest of the league seems to want to go to 12. I think they end up at 12.

Big East "Expansion": Army, Navy, Houston and call it a day. Puts the big east back at 8 and 8 (academy football only) for all sports. If no one else gets pilfered.

I'm sure Missouri wants to join the Big 10, but I don't believe that feeling is mutual. I don't think Missouri is the SECs preferred choice, but is probably the path of least resistence.

Are Army and Navy real possiblities? I would think they are behind several other schools, but I could be wrong.

Danny Serafini
09-26-2011, 04:51 PM
The Big East has been after Army and Navy for years as football only members, but the schools have no interest.

Slyder
09-26-2011, 05:01 PM
I'm sure Missouri wants to join the Big 10, but I don't believe that feeling is mutual. I don't think Missouri is the SECs preferred choice, but is probably the path of least resistence.

Are Army and Navy real possiblities? I would think they are behind several other schools, but I could be wrong.

The thought process is strengthen the government influence card. You add those schools for football in hopes that you can prevent the loss of the bid and pr that these young guys are good enough to serve for the military but you're saying they aren't good enough to play for a championship?

Looking back the Big East really needed to do a couple things IMO.
1 Let the ACC take who they wanted to begin with. Outside of the mythical tv set stupidity what has/did Syracuse or BC add? Virginia Tech has been the ONLY thing keeping ACC relevant in football the last 5 years or so.

2 Everyone talks about adding tv sets but what has been SEC's motis operendi? Quality programs and quality on field teams.

The Big East should have gone to at least 10 teams immediately after the raid. You were going to be dealing (tv wise) from a spot of weakness regardless so take some programs who put quality teams on the field and have pretty good upside in hopes they can add value to the next tv deal.

Still add Louisville, USF, and Cincy (which got them back to 8) but also add at least 2 of TCU, Houston, ECU, or UCF. Each of those schools while not adding a lot to the immediate value of the Big East could have developed into something more with time and the recruiting resources of the aq.

BuckeyeRed27
09-29-2011, 06:02 PM
http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/report-byu-louisville-cincinnati-west-virginia-to-join-big-12/

I got this from the OSU scout board and the guy that posted it there is pretty reliable on these things.

BYU, TCU, WVU, Louisville and the Bearcats to the Big 14.

paintmered
09-29-2011, 06:12 PM
http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/report-byu-louisville-cincinnati-west-virginia-to-join-big-12/

I got this from the OSU scout board and the guy that posted it there is pretty reliable on these things.

BYU, TCU, WVU, Louisville and the Bearcats to the Big 14.

This one seems to have quite a bit of smoke behind it. Also, the rumor is that BYU is already a done deal and the Big 12/14 is now transitioning to the Big East castoffs.

Potentially really great news for UC, UofL and WVU fans around here.

From what I'm able to piece together from the non-pay wall sites, there will be two 7-team divisions with three inter-division games each year. This works out rather elegantly, as UofL, UC and WVU slide in with Mizzou, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State to form the North/East division while Texas, Texas Tech, OU, Okie State, Baylor, TCU and BYU form the other half.

WMR
09-29-2011, 06:57 PM
If that happens, Texas and OU will not be in the same division.

paintmered
09-29-2011, 07:01 PM
If that happens, Texas and OU will not be in the same division.

Of course they will. Neither of those schools want to risk a rematch of the Red River Rivalry each year. Splitting OU and Texas makes sense for divisional balance but not for either of those schools.

WMR
09-29-2011, 07:14 PM
The North would be exceptionally weak compared to the South. I would think they would rather meet in Big 12 championship with an outside shot at BCS bowl even if you lose.

paintmered
09-29-2011, 07:18 PM
The North would be exceptionally weak compared to the South. I would think they would rather meet in Big 12 championship with an outside shot at BCS bowl even if you lose.

But that's kinda how it is now, yeah?

KronoRed
09-29-2011, 07:26 PM
That would end all Missouri to the sec talk...thank goodness

marcshoe
09-29-2011, 10:03 PM
The North would be exceptionally weak compared to the South. I would think they would rather meet in Big 12 championship with an outside shot at BCS bowl even if you lose.

That's what struck me immediately. There's not a one of those schools that strikes fear in an opponents heart.

I have to admit that it just seems like a weird amalgamation to me. Better than sticking in the Big East, but still kind of a pseudo-conference.

jojo
09-29-2011, 10:17 PM
http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/report-byu-louisville-cincinnati-west-virginia-to-join-big-12/

I got this from the OSU scout board and the guy that posted it there is pretty reliable on these things.

BYU, TCU, WVU, Louisville and the Bearcats to the Big 14.

What a weird conference with uninteresting story lines.

Slyder
09-29-2011, 10:51 PM
http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/report-byu-louisville-cincinnati-west-virginia-to-join-big-12/

I got this from the OSU scout board and the guy that posted it there is pretty reliable on these things.

BYU, TCU, WVU, Louisville and the Bearcats to the Big 14.

Would not surprise me to see the Big 12 absorb the remaining Big East members I think the bridge between the basketball schools and football schools has been forever burned and the gap is wider than the Grand Canyon right now and no person is going to ever fix it.

One question though anyone think that maybe O. Luck used some of his connections (IF WVU is in the SEC) to maybe get USF included in WVU's place? I would really hate to see USF left out because they've actually done quite well since moving to the Big East. If not USF's ONLY hope is the ACC and Fla State goes to the SEC.

Rutgers and UConn or ND to the ACC to get it to 16. I don't see how the Big 10 can sit back and let everyone east of the rockies goto 16 without them doing anything but at this point looks like they're going to have to take "what's left".

WVRed
09-29-2011, 11:07 PM
In other news, Rick Pitino will be faxing in his resignation as Louisville head basketball coach.*

* Pitino has been extremely outspoken regarding UConn and other schools leaving the Big East, even comparing it to him leaving Kentucky for the NBA. If Louisville gives up playing in Manhattan NY to play in Manhattan KS, you will see Ricky Three Stacks hang it up.

Danny Serafini
09-30-2011, 09:46 AM
Of course they will. Neither of those schools want to risk a rematch of the Red River Rivalry each year. Splitting OU and Texas makes sense for divisional balance but not for either of those schools.

If Ohio State and Michigan can be split into two different division and risk a rematch, so can Texas and Oklahoma.

Caveat Emperor
09-30-2011, 01:29 PM
In other news, Rick Pitino will be faxing in his resignation as Louisville head basketball coach.*

Pitino thinks Temple and the service academies would make a good conference -- his priorities are clearly at odds with what's best for the football playing members of the Big East.

medford
09-30-2011, 02:31 PM
I think Pitino knows a move away from the Big East puts a big dent into his NYC recruting connections. He's successfully recruited many talented players from the NYC area during his time at Boston U, Providence, Kentucky & Louisville. Gonna be a lot tougher to pull them into the midwest when they don't get a return trip home 2-4 times a season to play games.

the question for Louisville, aside from the obvious ones in football, is what is better for their basketball program, playing regular games vs UConn, Georgetown, & Marquette, or regular games vs Texas, Kansas & Missouri. Seems like the later set (assuming the remaining conference games are fairly similar or identical depending on who moves with them) would be more prestigous in basketball. Losing Syracuse and Pitt really killed the eastern identity of Big East football. Of course in football, its a no brainer, matching up with Texas & Oklahoma beats anything in the current or future big east.

dabvu2498
09-30-2011, 10:45 PM
If Ohio State and Michigan can be split into two different division and risk a rematch, so can Texas and Oklahoma.

Ditto Alabama-Tennessee, UF-LSU and Auburn-UGa. Not as big a rivalries as the two mentioned, but still n

jojo
10-01-2011, 07:19 AM
Ditto Alabama-Tennessee, UF-LSU and Auburn-UGa. Not as big a rivalries as the two mentioned, but still n

There is talk that Auburn could move to the east which would create Auburn-Alabama.

KronoRed
10-01-2011, 04:48 PM
There is talk that Auburn could move to the east which would create Auburn-Alabama.
True but it won't happen, the Elephants get the special treatment.

http://www.tigerboard.com/uimages/user17717_16.jpg

dabvu2498
10-01-2011, 05:43 PM
True but it won't happen, the Elephants get the special treatment.

http://www.tigerboard.com/uimages/user17717_16.jpg

Glad to see that map maker doesn't know where Nashville is.

KronoRed
10-02-2011, 12:01 AM
Glad to see that map maker doesn't know where Nashville is.

Give them a break, they're Missouri fans. :D

Slyder
10-04-2011, 10:24 PM
Admins feel free to delete the WVU post if you want to try and keep it specifically for things WVU related and confirmed news about WVU. I am pasting it here.


FSU isn't getting in. Same goes for Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Louisville. There is a gentlemens agreement in place between Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky to block any other in-state school from joining the conference.

With Missouri's announcement regarding leaving, I hope you're right about the SEC going to 15 teams.

The "gentlemen's agreement" is a rumor like everything else out there, not saying whether its true or not just that its a rumor like everything else.

Money talks and besides ND and Texas, FSU brings the most on a national stage of anyone else there is left. The SEC shops quality product where the ACC just goes on tv markets (regardless of whether anyone cares). The last ACC move was for basketball and FSU knows exactly where their bread is buttered (read not basketball) and they are about to become the big fish in a glass of water. The SEC knows what it would mean to get them as 16. Another rumor was that they were one to push HARD for WVU inclusion in the last expansion but the Tobacco Road Mafia called their bluff and FSU did setup a committee to look at conference affiliation.

And before someone else brings up the buyout raise. FSU was one of the reasons it was only raised to 20 mil from 13 or whatever it was before. For a major athletic department that is a few phone calls to the big cat donors.

A little bit of history Florida actually pushed hard for FSU in the 90s before Bowden and FSU decided to take the "easier path". Florida would accept FSU's inclusion but they won't politic for them like they did then, I believe.

No one else makes sense for 16 (that wouldn't have to bring little brother with them). Va Tech sold their freedom to get into ACC, I doubt if even if they wanted they could get out from under the legislatures thumb (note all bets are off if B1G wants UVa Long Shot I know), Do NC State or Clemson see value of leaving the blue bloods and the Big East schools do ANY of them really provide any value football wise that might entice SEC?

The cap on BcS teams is far from certain so you add more confusion to your member schools staying at 15 without relative security from someone that they would be 16.

KronoRed
10-04-2011, 11:25 PM
A little bit of history Florida actually pushed hard for FSU in the 90s before Bowden and FSU decided to take the "easier path". Florida would accept FSU's inclusion but they won't politic for them like they did then, I believe.


There is actually more history to it, Florida pushed for fsu from the late 60's on when Georgia Tech and Tulane bailed out, the SEC put it off over and over again and when they finally were ready to invite them fsu bailed out, pissing a lot of Florida and SEC people off, many of whom are still in the conference office.

I don't see an invite coming for the other thing you said, "easier path" fsu likely still favors that plan since it helped them get two titles in the 90's.

Slyder
10-05-2011, 12:32 AM
There is actually more history to it, Florida pushed for fsu from the late 60's on when Georgia Tech and Tulane bailed out, the SEC put it off over and over again and when they finally were ready to invite them fsu bailed out, pissing a lot of Florida and SEC people off, many of whom are still in the conference office.

I don't see an invite coming for the other thing you said, "easier path" fsu likely still favors that plan since it helped them get two titles in the 90's.

The ACC is going to be the new Big East and if the BcS bids start going to "most deserving" and no guarenteed bids then the ACC is one of the conferences most affected by this. All the bids will get swallowed up SEC, B1G, and Pac since they will produce the most quality, the ACC on the other hand outside of Va Tech and FSU go for tv markets rather than quality programs.

On the scout site an FSU fan posted when they found out about Pitt and Syracuse the following....

Its almost as if the ACC broke into the big east house and took the trash and left the safe.

Slyder
10-05-2011, 12:50 AM
Am I forgetting someone? Who else makes sense for the SEC to poach than Florida State University that would make it 16? Va Tech sold its independence to get into the ACC no chance they get out of that deal with the devil (Legislature), Texas or Oklahoma would be required to bring little brother with them, Notre Dame... yea I think they'd join Big East football before SEC (the academic side would almost certainly join them with Big 10 or ACC, plus there is that little problem called NBC).

KronoRed
10-05-2011, 02:08 AM
I still don't think 16 team conferences are going to happen, the ACC could have Uconn and Rutgers right now but hasn't pulled the trigger, the SEC also seems to be taking their time with 14 rather then a mad rush, the Pac12 and Big10+2 also don't seem to be in a hurry to do anything.

If an ACC team can be raided, I'd go with Clemson, but I guess I'm partial to Orange.

cumberlandreds
10-05-2011, 07:11 AM
Missouri's BOC has given permission to explore new opportunities for Mizzou. I think they will be team #14 in the SEC very shortly.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/04/3187837/curators-tell-missouri-to-look.html

Slyder
10-05-2011, 09:05 AM
I still don't think 16 team conferences are going to happen, the ACC could have Uconn and Rutgers right now but hasn't pulled the trigger, the SEC also seems to be taking their time with 14 rather then a mad rush, the Pac12 and Big10+2 also don't seem to be in a hurry to do anything.

If an ACC team can be raided, I'd go with Clemson, but I guess I'm partial to Orange.

ACC thinks Notre Dame and Penn State are options. Its why they haven't gone and brought Rutgers and UConn into the fold and delivered the final blow to the big east. Notre Dame is who the Big 10 is waiting for, death of the big east in football would destabilize ND's olympic sports and may force them to leave independence behind. When that happens the ACC or Big 10 will expand to 16.

WVRed
10-05-2011, 11:41 AM
ACC thinks Notre Dame and Penn State are options. Its why they haven't gone and brought Rutgers and UConn into the fold and delivered the final blow to the big east. Notre Dame is who the Big 10 is waiting for, death of the big east in football would destabilize ND's olympic sports and may force them to leave independence behind. When that happens the ACC or Big 10 will expand to 16.

Haven't heard Penn State as an option. Why would they leave the B10 for the ACC though?

Been hearing that Louisville is likely Big 12 bound if Mizzou bolts, much to the chagrin of the Godfather Rick Pitino.

Slyder
10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Haven't heard Penn State as an option. Why would they leave the B10 for the ACC though?

Been hearing that Louisville is likely Big 12 bound if Mizzou bolts, much to the chagrin of the Godfather Rick Pitino.

Its mostly smoke from what I have heard that Penn State isn't happy with the lack of eastern teams and tired of being an outpost to itself in the B1G. Joe Pa may see the "all sports conference" he wanted 30 years ago in the form of the ACC north division. If they go to the ACC they wouldn't lose much money in the terms of endowment because the ACC has a pretty sizable one too. At least that is how I would read it.

Cyclone792
10-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Been hearing that Louisville is likely Big 12 bound if Mizzou bolts, much to the chagrin of the Godfather Rick Pitino.

None of the Big East basketball coaches like what is happening. Boeheim and Dixon do not like the moves to the ACC, and Pitino isn't going to like a potential move to the Big 12. The simple fact is the Big East ruled the roost in hoops, and other conferences knew it (and didn't like it). They have a huge national television presence, the best conference tournament venue/location in MSG and it was the deepest and most talented hoops conference in the country. The recruiting advantages were immense due to all those factors working together.

dabvu2498
10-05-2011, 06:21 PM
None of the Big East basketball coaches like what is happening. Boeheim and Dixon do not like the moves to the ACC, and Pitino isn't going to like a potential move to the Big 12. The simple fact is the Big East ruled the roost in hoops, and other conferences knew it (and didn't like it). They have a huge national television presence, the best conference tournament venue/location in MSG and it was the deepest and most talented hoops conference in the country. The recruiting advantages were immense due to all those factors working together.

Unfortunately none of that matters because basketball doesn't make the money that football does for the schools, conferences or TV networks.

nmculbreth
10-06-2011, 12:35 PM
TCU to the Big 12.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/10/06/big-12-tcu.ap/index.html?eref=BrkNews

cumberlandreds
10-06-2011, 01:20 PM
TCU to the Big 12.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/10/06/big-12-tcu.ap/index.html?eref=BrkNews (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/10/06/big-12-tcu.ap/index.html?eref=BrkNews)

The definition of vagabonds. Left the Mountain West via the Big East to the Big 12. Where will they go after the Big 12 disolves? :laugh:
Really I thought the SEC would pursue them. Dallas is a huge market to be in and they would compliment Tex A&M pretty well.

Slyder
10-06-2011, 01:21 PM
The definition of vagabonds. Left the Mountain West via the Big East to the Big 12. Where will they go after the Big 12 disolves? :laugh:
Really I thought the SEC would pursue them. Dallas is a huge market to be in and they would compliment Tex A&M pretty well.

If Missouri says no and they don't have a 16th team already lined up they still might.

KronoRed
10-06-2011, 04:56 PM
ACC thinks Notre Dame and Penn State are options. Its why they haven't gone and brought Rutgers and UConn into the fold and delivered the final blow to the big east. Notre Dame is who the Big 10 is waiting for, death of the big east in football would destabilize ND's olympic sports and may force them to leave independence behind. When that happens the ACC or Big 10 will expand to 16.

Could be, but I still don't see it, 16 teams is a logistical nightmare for all sports and most AD's know it, the big10 is likely waiting on ND but 3 more? at this point there are simply not enough teams to pull it off, the ACC might go there and it will blow up in their face, but TCU in the SEC? they will go with 13 first.

The only way I see 16 team conferences becoming an across the board thing is if the NCAA plans playoffs, which of course will never happen.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-06-2011, 06:10 PM
The definition of vagabonds. Left the Mountain West via the Big East to the Big 12. Where will they go after the Big 12 disolves? :laugh:
Really I thought the SEC would pursue them. Dallas is a huge market to be in and they would compliment Tex A&M pretty well.

And that's barely half of their moves in the past 15 years or so. They've also been in (at least) the SWAC and WAC since the mid-90s.

paintmered
10-06-2011, 06:12 PM
And that's barely half of their moves in the past 15 years or so. They've also been in (at least) the SWAC and WAC since the mid-90s.

They spent a few seasons in C-USA too.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-06-2011, 06:30 PM
They spent a few seasons in C-USA too.

They move around more than Matt Stairs.

Joseph
10-06-2011, 06:59 PM
They move around more than Matt Stairs.

Some days I miss the rep system. :thumbup:

Ohayou
10-06-2011, 08:11 PM
We are all going to have to buy guides to find out what schools play in what conference.

Caveat Emperor
10-07-2011, 12:08 AM
I admit it -- there was about a 15 second window where I allowed myself to dream, and then reality came back and I remembered that I went to a school that's 17th banana in the athletics world. But, this was so cool to read today:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7063633/missouri-tigers-hope-join-sec-had-wanted-big-ten-invite-most

There were a number of top candidates, the source said, including BYU, Louisville, West Virginia, TCU and previously unmentioned Tulane, of Conference USA. The source said the Big 12 has been contacted by a number of other schools about possible inclusion, as well.

On Thursday, the Big 12 invited TCU, which was supposed to begin membership in the Big East in 2012-13. The TCU board of trustees was scheduled to meet later in the day to discuss the invitation.

The source said that Tulane would become a viable option for the Big 12 if it were to grab four schools to beef up the membership to 12, in a situation where BYU decides it doesn't want to leave its football independence or its new tie to the WCC in all other sports. Tulane is interesting to the Big 12 because of its location in New Orleans and in a state, Louisiana, where the Big 12 is absent, as well as the school's renewed commitment to sports and facilities after Hurricane Katrina.

Roll Wave. ;)

Puffy
10-07-2011, 11:03 AM
I admit it -- there was about a 15 second window where I allowed myself to dream, and then reality came back and I remembered that I went to a school that's 17th banana in the athletics world. But, this was so cool to read today:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7063633/missouri-tigers-hope-join-sec-had-wanted-big-ten-invite-most


Roll Wave. ;)

As a fellow alum I can, with all honesty, say dream on! They need a new coach and a better recruiting network before any big conference takes us.

WVRed
10-07-2011, 12:08 PM
As a fellow alum I can, with all honesty, say dream on! They need a new coach and a better recruiting network before any big conference takes us.

Geographically, they make more sense than WVU or Louisville, who are the other teams being rumored.

Do you think the other Big 12 teams would rather travel to New Orleans, Louisville, or Morgantown? Not to mention with media market New Orleans is a better fit. Tulane is a wildcard, but one that could work.

jojo
10-07-2011, 12:29 PM
This isn't asked out of meanness... Is there any conference that really wants WVU outside of the big east who must be desparate to keep them?

WVRed
10-07-2011, 02:13 PM
This isn't asked out of meanness... Is there any conference that really wants WVU outside of the big east who must be desparate to keep them?

The SEC possibly IF they expand to 16. They don't culturally fit the ACC and academically horrid to be considered for the Big 10.

The reason though is I don't see any other possibility for the SEC:

Teams that likely will be blocked by other members:
Florida State (ACC)
Georgia Tech (ACC)
Clemson (ACC)
Louisville (Big East)

Team that makes sense but sold its soul (as Slyder put it) and even then has to deal with a 20 million buyout:

Virginia Tech (ACC)

Which leaves WVU, Cincinnati, and South Florida being the teams making the most geographical sense. UC borders on Kentucky, among other issues. South Florida would be interesting as it would bring Miami, but would UF vote for it?

That leaves WVU who would likely be no 15. The SEC could stay at 15 and go with a 3 pod system as Slyder mentioned, but if they go 16, another wildcard I would throw out is NC State. It would put the SEC into North Carolina and tap into the Raleigh-Durham/Charlotte market. NC State is the redheaded stepchild of the Carolina schools, but it would likely take convincing to get them to leave. It would give them a solid rivalry with South Carolina as well.

Of course, you have to hope they would bite and the exit fee comes up again. Once past WVU, its a guessing game.

Boss-Hog
10-07-2011, 02:38 PM
South Florida is in Tampa, not Miami.

Just my opinion, but the only conference that seems to be putting "markets" ahead of everything else is the ACC. I get the impression the other conferences that have expanded are looking beyond just market size and for good reason, IMO.

marcshoe
10-07-2011, 02:47 PM
The SEC possibly IF they expand to 16. They don't culturally fit the ACC and academically horrid to be considered for the Big 10.

The reason though is I don't see any other possibility for the SEC:

Teams that likely will be blocked by other members:
Florida State (ACC)
Georgia Tech (ACC)
Clemson (ACC)
Louisville (Big East)

Team that makes sense but sold its soul (as Slyder put it) and even then has to deal with a 20 million buyout:

Virginia Tech (ACC)

Which leaves WVU, Cincinnati, and South Florida being the teams making the most geographical sense. UC borders on Kentucky, among other issues. South Florida would be interesting as it would bring Miami, but would UF vote for it?

That leaves WVU who would likely be no 15. The SEC could stay at 15 and go with a 3 pod system as Slyder mentioned, but if they go 16, another wildcard I would throw out is NC State. It would put the SEC into North Carolina and tap into the Raleigh-Durham/Charlotte market. NC State is the redheaded stepchild of the Carolina schools, but it would likely take convincing to get them to leave. It would give them a solid rivalry with South Carolina as well.

Of course, you have to hope they would bite and the exit fee comes up again. Once past WVU, its a guessing game.

And that may be the biggest impediment to WVU moving to the SEC--number 16 is likely to be particularly weak. Virginia Tech would have made so much sense, if only....

Personally, I wish the NCAA were strong enough to insist on geographically based conferences, but that's a pipe dream.

bucksfan2
10-07-2011, 02:48 PM
The SEC possibly IF they expand to 16. They don't culturally fit the ACC and academically horrid to be considered for the Big 10.

The reason though is I don't see any other possibility for the SEC:

Teams that likely will be blocked by other members:
Florida State (ACC)
Georgia Tech (ACC)
Clemson (ACC)
Louisville (Big East)

Team that makes sense but sold its soul (as Slyder put it) and even then has to deal with a 20 million buyout:

Virginia Tech (ACC)

Which leaves WVU, Cincinnati, and South Florida being the teams making the most geographical sense. UC borders on Kentucky, among other issues. South Florida would be interesting as it would bring Miami, but would UF vote for it?

That leaves WVU who would likely be no 15. The SEC could stay at 15 and go with a 3 pod system as Slyder mentioned, but if they go 16, another wildcard I would throw out is NC State. It would put the SEC into North Carolina and tap into the Raleigh-Durham/Charlotte market. NC State is the redheaded stepchild of the Carolina schools, but it would likely take convincing to get them to leave. It would give them a solid rivalry with South Carolina as well.

Of course, you have to hope they would bite and the exit fee comes up again. Once past WVU, its a guessing game.

FSU and Clemson both get into the SEC well before WVU. Georgia Tech opted out of the SEC and they aren't going back. I don't buy Louisville as a legit SEC contender. I don't see any way possible that WVU gets a SEC invite. I really don't think they bring anything to the table.

Does UL have any chance of heading to the Big 12? The Big 12 currently stands at 11 (assuming Missouri doesn't depart). I really like the TCU addition, it makes sense and they are adding a nice football program. I think BYU would be the best addition to make 12 out there. But Louisville may not be a bad choice if BYU doesn't get an offer or they need another team to make 12.

WVRed
10-07-2011, 04:30 PM
FSU and Clemson both get into the SEC well before WVU. Georgia Tech opted out of the SEC and they aren't going back. I don't buy Louisville as a legit SEC contender. I don't see any way possible that WVU gets a SEC invite. I really don't think they bring anything to the table.

Obviously they would get in before WVU if an offer would be made, but thats the key. FSU and Clemson won't receive an invite because the SEC already has a team in those markets. Krono already explained earlier in the thread why Florida and other SEC schools would likely block a FSU invite after Florida lobbied to get them into the SEC, only to have FSU reject it and stay in the ACC.

That and I don't see any ACC school swallowing the cash to leave the conference unless they are so disenfranchised.

jojo
10-07-2011, 05:18 PM
Obviously they would get in before WVU if an offer would be made, but thats the key. FSU and Clemson won't receive an invite because the SEC already has a team in those markets. Krono already explained earlier in the thread why Florida and other SEC schools would likely block a FSU invite after Florida lobbied to get them into the SEC, only to have FSU reject it and stay in the ACC.

That and I don't see any ACC school swallowing the cash to leave the conference unless they are so disenfranchised.

I would love to have Clemson join the SEC because I think Clemson fits tradition-wise. Clearly the ACC has circled their wagons which probably makes the likelihood of any ACC changing conferences a moot point. But if that weren't the case, Clemson still wouldn't likely get an invite, not because of market but rather, because of recruiting wars. Clemson is just a little too successful in Florida and U of F would not likely allow them to build an even stronger argument by letting Clemson into the SEC (and I think despite the ACC grabbing some teams, they are not as strong of a football conference as the SEC).

joshnky
10-07-2011, 08:57 PM
FSU and Clemson both get into the SEC well before WVU. Georgia Tech opted out of the SEC and they aren't going back. I don't buy Louisville as a legit SEC contender. I don't see any way possible that WVU gets a SEC invite. I really don't think they bring anything to the table.

Does UL have any chance of heading to the Big 12? The Big 12 currently stands at 11 (assuming Missouri doesn't depart). I really like the TCU addition, it makes sense and they are adding a nice football program. I think BYU would be the best addition to make 12 out there. But Louisville may not be a bad choice if BYU doesn't get an offer or they need another team to make 12.

With Missouri the big 12 stands at ten teams and may stay there. All indications are, if Missouri leaves Louisville will be invited and the big 12 will seriously consider two more teams. For some reason, BYU is off the table.

Slyder
10-07-2011, 09:46 PM
With Missouri the big 12 stands at ten teams and may stay there. All indications are, if Missouri leaves Louisville will be invited and the big 12 will seriously consider two more teams. For some reason, BYU is off the table.

Won't play on Sundays and I've heard that they want to see more stability before they join another conference.

Caveat Emperor
10-07-2011, 10:41 PM
With Missouri the big 12 stands at ten teams and may stay there. All indications are, if Missouri leaves Louisville will be invited and the big 12 will seriously consider two more teams. For some reason, BYU is off the table.

Every team you add slices the revenue pie a little smaller.

WVRed
10-07-2011, 11:21 PM
South Florida is in Tampa, not Miami.

Just my opinion, but the only conference that seems to be putting "markets" ahead of everything else is the ACC. I get the impression the other conferences that have expanded are looking beyond just market size and for good reason, IMO.

I don't think the ACC is looking at markets moreso than they are looking at basketball. Sure, Syracuse and Pitt (NY and Pittsburgh) make sense from a market standpoint, but they are two of the most successful basketball schools in a conference that is basketball first.

Football drives the bus, but apparently the ACC didn't get that memo.

Slyder
10-08-2011, 01:40 AM
I don't think the ACC is looking at markets moreso than they are looking at basketball. Sure, Syracuse and Pitt (NY and Pittsburgh) make sense from a market standpoint, but they are two of the most successful basketball schools in a conference that is basketball first.

Football drives the bus, but apparently the ACC didn't get that memo.

Explain BC then. Yes I agree they are looking for basketball and will be the new Big East when the Big East is taken off of the life support but their 1b is markets or else WVU would fit like a glove there too.

Caveat Emperor
10-08-2011, 11:32 AM
The dream that refuses to die:

http://twitter.com/#!/ScottDKushner/status/122688840321335296

Sources around #Tulane say talks with Big XII are still alive. Wave's chances are contingent on abt 5 factors going its way, but it's real.
http://twitter.com/#!/GSwaim/status/122688215210672129

"@JeremyinSP: @GSwaim so it could change again." This expansion committee was talking #Tulane this week...with a straight face!!

Wave pride, baby. ;)

Slyder
10-10-2011, 12:27 AM
Big East
SEC
Big 12

All are supposedly meeting tomorrow, some rumors that SEC is ready to move on 14 and a lot of local talk about something big happening with WVU.

What does it all mean? I have no flippin clue but I hope something is decided before bridge day or else there might be a lot of Mountaineer fans jumping off the bridge without the safety stuff. LOL.

WVRed
10-10-2011, 10:41 AM
Big East
SEC
Big 12

All are supposedly meeting tomorrow, some rumors that SEC is ready to move on 14 and a lot of local talk about something big happening with WVU.

What does it all mean? I have no flippin clue but I hope something is decided before bridge day or else there might be a lot of Mountaineer fans jumping off the bridge without the safety stuff. LOL.

A friend of mine was at the WVU game on Saturday and the rumor throughout the stadium was that there were people dressed up wearing SEC pins. Take it for what its worth.

TCU is expected to join the Big 12 today, and I think the SEC is waiting for Missouri to get off the pot and do something.

Chip R
10-10-2011, 11:43 AM
The Air Force Academy may get a football only invite from the Big East.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7082348/air-force-falcons-exploring-options-other-sports-football-joins-big-east

OnBaseMachine
10-10-2011, 12:24 PM
I would much rather see WVU end up in the Big 12.

Slyder
10-10-2011, 12:25 PM
The Air Force Academy may get a football only invite from the Big East.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7082348/air-force-falcons-exploring-options-other-sports-football-joins-big-east

Boise getting one too makes sense for a desperate league trying to save itself. Maybe the next "phase" of expansion will be sort of these super conferences for just the money making sports (some men/women's basketball and football) and the rest of the sports are more localized.

*EDIT*
Only reports out of the Big East Teleconference seems to be that the league okay a committee to look into getting the football side to 12.

Early Reports are (in no particular order):
ECU
UCF
Houston
Boise (football only)
Academies (football only)
Villanova (again)
Temple

are the "favorites" if thats the list and this were 2 or 3 years ago my order would have been:
ECU (most potential to become a WVU-lite, very rabid fan base with room to grow)
Houston
UCF
Then after that pull from a hat.

WVRed
10-10-2011, 12:57 PM
I would much rather see WVU end up in the Big 12.

Not me.

1. Geographically its a nightmare on both angles. WVU fans would have to travel every other year to Texas or Oklahoma for football games. WVU fans are very loyal and will travel, but asking them to fly to any of those destinations would be a bit much. On the flip side, opposing schools would be traveling to Pittsburgh and driving in to Morgantown, which isn't really a pleasant drive.

2. The Big 12 is going to basically be a somewhat better version of the Big East (especially with what is rumored). With the bowl bids being rumored to be going away from automatic bids, its going to make it very difficult fighting with the Big 10 and SEC for a BCS bid, especially if Texas and Oklahoma eventually bolt for the Pac 12.

3. Back to geography, football is a revenue generating sport so traveling isn't a problem for the team. What happens with lacrosse, softball, or any other non-revenue sport?

If WVU goes to the Big 12, it should be for football only, or a pod system where Louisville, South Florida, and Cincinnati are also invited. Otherwise the SEC makes a lot more sense.

WVRed
10-10-2011, 01:03 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7084162/big-east-consider-adding-6-football-schools

If the Big East adds Boise, they seriously need to rename the conference.

RedsBaron
10-10-2011, 02:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7084162/big-east-consider-adding-6-football-schools

If the Big East adds Boise, they seriously need to rename the conference.

The Really Really Big East? :)
Hey, if the Big Ten can have 12 teams and the Big 12 can have 10 teams, the Southeastern Conference can include Texas A&M, and Colorado can play in the Pac 12 even though its campus is more than 1000 miles form the Pacific Ocean, why not have Boise State in the Big East? ;)

Slyder
10-10-2011, 04:45 PM
The Really Really Big East? :)
Hey, if the Big Ten can have 12 teams and the Big 12 can have 10 teams, the Southeastern Conference can include Texas A&M, and Colorado can play in the Pac 12 even though its campus is more than 1000 miles form the Pacific Ocean, why not have Boise State in the Big East? ;)

Is Boise East of the Rockies? In which case just move the name around and call it the East of the Rockies Big?

And I agree the names have long sense lost its meaning, they're about recognition and branding more than anything else now. Not to mention the Pac abandoned the Pacific nature in the late 70s when they invited Arizona and Arizona State.

Slyder
10-10-2011, 04:53 PM
ESPN really needs to be drug into Congress about trying to strong arm football in a means that they want. They are trying to create a monopoly.

Recent News:
BC Pres DiFilipo "ESPN told us to take Pitt and Syracuse".
Trying like hell to force Missouri on ESPN. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7084900/missouri-tigers-study-outlines-sec-revenue-advantage

jojo
10-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Is Boise East of the Rockies? In which case just move the name around and call it the East of the Rockies Big?

And I agree the names have long sense lost its meaning, they're about recognition and branding more than anything else now. Not to mention the Pac abandoned the Pacific nature in the late 70s when they invited Arizona and Arizona State.

Boise to the big east makes zero sense but then again TCU didn't make any sense either. Do we really want to see Boise vs Rutgers (and that would be a marquee matchup in the rumored new Big east...)

Caveat Emperor
10-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Boise to the big east makes zero sense but then again TCU didn't make any sense either. Do we really want to see Boise vs Rutgers (and that would be a marquee matchup in the rumored new Big east...)

I'd rather see that than Central Florida vs. Anyone.

marcshoe
10-11-2011, 10:59 PM
Not me.

1. Geographically its a nightmare on both angles. WVU fans would have to travel every other year to Texas or Oklahoma for football games. WVU fans are very loyal and will travel, but asking them to fly to any of those destinations would be a bit much. On the flip side, opposing schools would be traveling to Pittsburgh and driving in to Morgantown, which isn't really a pleasant drive.

2. The Big 12 is going to basically be a somewhat better version of the Big East (especially with what is rumored). With the bowl bids being rumored to be going away from automatic bids, its going to make it very difficult fighting with the Big 10 and SEC for a BCS bid, especially if Texas and Oklahoma eventually bolt for the Pac 12.

3. Back to geography, football is a revenue generating sport so traveling isn't a problem for the team. What happens with lacrosse, softball, or any other non-revenue sport?

If WVU goes to the Big 12, it should be for football only, or a pod system where Louisville, South Florida, and Cincinnati are also invited. Otherwise the SEC makes a lot more sense.

Hey, it's a fun drive! Okay, so it takes forever, and on my return drive from Texas last year (it had nothing to do with football) I got lost on a dirt road in Arkansas at night with my gas tank on empty (stupid GPS!) then, when I found the right road, ended up peeling out of a truck stop after arguing with an unhelpful clerk in the presence of a large group of her trucker friends....

okay, so next time I might decide to go to Austin via Omaha. :eek:

Hoosier Red
10-11-2011, 11:25 PM
A friend of mine was at the WVU game on Saturday and the rumor throughout the stadium was that there were people dressed up wearing SEC pins. Take it for what its worth.
.

But Halloween's not for 20 days. And what a strange costume.

I mean an SEC rep maybe, but an SEC pin, that's just too esoteric for me.

Boston Red
10-12-2011, 12:58 AM
Do we really want to see Boise vs Rutgers (\

Sure. Why not?

WVRed
10-12-2011, 07:23 AM
But Halloween's not for 20 days. And what a strange costume.

I mean an SEC rep maybe, but an SEC pin, that's just too esoteric for me.

He meant SEC reps were there. I'm guessing you are joking. :)

Slyder
10-12-2011, 11:47 AM
From the Throw Crap at the wall and see if it sticks category of Tweets...

SECNews247 SEC News 24/7
It has been floating around, but I don't see # UK to # ACC.If true WVU & Mizzou fans better pack their bags b/c SEC would need bball schools

IMO, The day that happens pigs will fly, apes will rule the world, Ann Coulter will have an affair with Harry Reid. George, Abraham, Franklin, John, Teddy, and Ron will rise up from the dead to kick ass and take names in DC.

Hoosier Red
10-12-2011, 03:37 PM
He meant SEC reps were there. I'm guessing you are joking. :)

I was. Meant to put a smiley in.
:)

WVRed
10-12-2011, 06:07 PM
From the Throw Crap at the wall and see if it sticks category of Tweets...

SECNews247 SEC News 24/7
It has been floating around, but I don't see # UK to # ACC.If true WVU & Mizzou fans better pack their bags b/c SEC would need bball schools

IMO, The day that happens pigs will fly, apes will rule the world, Ann Coulter will have an affair with Harry Reid. George, Abraham, Franklin, John, Teddy, and Ron will rise up from the dead to kick ass and take names in DC.

Add in the Reds will move to the American League before that happens.

As much as I see the logic behind it (basketball first league with bluebloods of college basketball and weak enough to compete in football), there are so many reasons it would NEVER happen:

1. We're culturally not ACC material for the same reasons as WVU. A state dominated by "rednecks and hillbillies" in a wine and cheese league. I also don't see UK being bullied by the Carolina schools either.

2. UK is a founding member of the SEC and would likely only look to leave if the conference were to collapse (not happening)

3. The revenue sharing and conference deal with ESPN makes it highly unlikely ANY SEC team leaves for another conference. If anybody would have made the jump, it would have been Arkansas to the Big 12.

4. The ACC holds their conference tournament in Greensboro and is expected to add NYC to appease Syracuse and Pitt for joining. I don't see Atlanta being added anytime soon.

dabvu2498
10-12-2011, 07:07 PM
I've been hearing some Vanderbilt to the ACC stuff too.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

Ever.

Unless they threw us, kicking, screaming, and suing, out on our butts. No one is leaving the SEC.

Slyder
10-12-2011, 08:04 PM
I've been hearing some Vanderbilt to the ACC stuff too.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

Ever.

Unless they threw us, kicking, screaming, and suing, out on our butts. No one is leaving the SEC.

I always thought the Big 10 might have a dark horse interest in them. Get them on the Big 10 Network and in tv in Nashville.

Vanderbilt would get into a conference of similar schools with similar admittance standards and maybe compete better than they do in the SEC without losing as much money.

dabvu2498
10-12-2011, 08:26 PM
I always thought the Big 10 might have a dark horse interest in them. Get them on the Big 10 Network and in tv in Nashville.

Vanderbilt would get into a conference of similar schools with similar admittance standards and maybe compete better than they do in the SEC without losing as much money.

Even less likely. Vanderbilt views itself, and rightfully so, as very much of a Southern school.

Slyder
10-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Even less likely. Vanderbilt views itself, and rightfully so, as very much of a Southern school.

Fair enough.

WVRed
10-13-2011, 05:22 PM
This is how I would fix the Big East (and this is what should have been done a long time ago). Obviously I know real life doesn't work this way.

1. Bring Louisville, West Virginia, UConn, and Rutgers to the table and tell them they have until October 31st to decide their future. These four are the schools that have been shopping themselves to other conferences. If they leave the conference before the 31st, they will pay the standard buyout. Anything after and the buyout is raised to 20 million to keep in line with the ACC.

This forces the hand of the schools, in which case I would look for three of the four to break off from the conference (making it easier for an invite). Louisville would join the Big 12, West Virginia would be either B12 or SEC, UConn would likely leave for the ACC and Rutgers would stay.

2. Call all of the basketball schools together and give them a similar option, either compete in all sports or withdraw from the Big East completely. The only one I see that would likely move to FBS is Villanova, while the rest would likely form their own conference.

This leaves the following schools:

South Florida
Cincinnati
Villanova
Rutgers

3.The following schools would then be merged with Conference USA in a 16 team division:

Eastern Pod:
Marshall
Rutgers
Villanova
Cincinnati

Gulf Pod:
UCF
USF
UAB
ECU

Texas Pod:
Houston
Rice
SMU
UTEP

Western Pod:
Tulsa
Tulane
Memphis
Southern Miss

Granted, this is the atomic bomb in dissolving the conference, but its better than trying to save it.

Caveat Emperor
10-13-2011, 10:21 PM
Granted, this is the atomic bomb in dissolving the conference, but its better than trying to save it.

What you end up with here is a garbage conference that costs a lot of money for non-revenue sports to travel in and brings nothing to the table for football. They'd never give that conference AQ status to the BCS, and no one in the right mind would pay a dime for national broadcast rights.

If that's what you're going to end up with, better to form a smaller conference more regionally-centric and wait for the next round of expansion to try your hand.

No sense wasting time creating a giant conference that spans half of the country only to get regional telecasts on FSN.

Slyder
10-13-2011, 10:43 PM
This is how I would fix the Big East (and this is what should have been done a long time ago). Obviously I know real life doesn't work this way.

1. Bring Louisville, West Virginia, UConn, and Rutgers to the table and tell them they have until October 31st to decide their future. These four are the schools that have been shopping themselves to other conferences. If they leave the conference before the 31st, they will pay the standard buyout. Anything after and the buyout is raised to 20 million to keep in line with the ACC.

Providence has been trying to up the buyout and the schools have been laughing right in his face. You'd never get it passed this Big East.



This forces the hand of the schools, in which case I would look for three of the four to break off from the conference (making it easier for an invite). Louisville would join the Big 12, West Virginia would be either B12 or SEC, UConn would likely leave for the ACC and Rutgers would stay.

I think you have that reverse. If I were a gambling man here is how I forsee it:

WVU: SEC #14
Louisville: Big 12 #11
Cincinnati Big 12 #12 (More games at Paul Brown Stadium, kick back to Louisville)
Rutgers ACC #16 (with a big fish linked to it as #15)
UConn SOL until B1G decides to expand or they are used to replace teams pilfered in the ACC
USF: Only prayer is ACC if the SEC gets Florida State. I wish the Big 12 would look at them if they goto 14 I think theyd do well (lot of midwesterners move to St Pete for retirement or so I have been told)




2. Call all of the basketball schools together and give them a similar option, either compete in all sports or withdraw from the Big East completely. The only one I see that would likely move to FBS is Villanova, while the rest would likely form their own conference.


You're more than likely to get the response of okay, you're fired take the football schools with you. There isn't the voting numbers for anything similar to that. I see the basketball schools just waiting out the football schools and then reverting to an all basketball conference with them adding the likes of Dayton, Butler, etc and resuming as a top tier basketball conference.

And I don't believe Nova has near the school support or infrastructure to become Division 1. Their rumored plan involves a 28k soccer stadium as their home field. It would be among (if not THE) smallest BcS stadiums.



Granted, this is the atomic bomb in dissolving the conference, but its better than trying to save it.

This is what I am waiting on. I think the only reason they haven't done this is they are trying to wait out WVU and Louisville to collect the exit fees.

WVRed
10-13-2011, 11:02 PM
What you end up with here is a garbage conference that costs a lot of money for non-revenue sports to travel in and brings nothing to the table for football. They'd never give that conference AQ status to the BCS, and no one in the right mind would pay a dime for national broadcast rights.

If that's what you're going to end up with, better to form a smaller conference more regionally-centric and wait for the next round of expansion to try your hand.

No sense wasting time creating a giant conference that spans half of the country only to get regional telecasts on FSN.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think its a lot more realistic than the Big East trying to add Boise State or the service academies. Regardless of what happens, there is going to be a garbage conference, just depends on whether the name on it is Big East or C-USA.

texasdave
10-14-2011, 04:37 PM
An official in the Big East tells The Associated Press that the conference plans to double its exit fee to $10 million dollars, then invite Boise State, Navy and Air Force as football-only members, and Central Florida as a member in all sports.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/10/14/big-east-expansion.ap/index.html#ixzz1an4uWBj8

Captain13
10-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Mutliple reports today that the Big East is going to offer UCF, Navy, Air Force and Boise within a week, possibly this weekend. Assuming those schools all accept offers would then go to Houston and SMU. Word is Nova is trying there level best to keep Temple out of the Big East.

Caveat Emperor
10-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Conference USA and the Mountain West announced Friday a football consolidation of their combined 22 schools "in one large association."

The plan is for the champion of each conference to then play in a championship game perhaps as soon as 2012. The unique, first-of-its kind arrangement will span five time zones and reach from the East Coast to Hawaii.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32718514

Apparently the goal here is to create the world's biggest conference that absolutely no one cares about.

jojo
10-14-2011, 09:49 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32718514

Apparently the goal here is to create the world's biggest conference that absolutely no one cares about.

Strangely though, that makes more sense than Boise to the Big East.

Slyder
10-14-2011, 09:51 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32718514

Apparently the goal here is to create the world's biggest conference that absolutely no one cares about.

I thought I read that the conference champs played each other in hopes the winner would get the BcS bid vacated when the monstrosity that is the Big East Dies. Or at least puts up enough "stability" to prevent the Big East from replenishing its rolls.

Although if you took only the "best of the best" from each here's what you would have from a conference:

1 TCU (and yes I know big 12, just wanting to put them in there)
2 Boise
3 Houston
4 SMU
5 ECU
6 So Miss
7 Tulsa
8 UCF

Would that 8 plus 4 or 6 of the big east schools be enough to make anyone care?

Danny Serafini
10-15-2011, 01:47 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32718514

Apparently the goal here is to create the world's biggest conference that absolutely no one cares about.

I don't know, the fact that Hawaii/East Carolina would be a "conference" game is at least mildly amusing.

marcshoe
10-18-2011, 12:25 PM
The Big East raised their buyout by $5 million. WVU broadcaster Tony Caridi said this morning that while, as usual, nothing is even halfway certain, the most likely scenario at the moment is WVU (or maybe Louisville, but Caridi's hearing WVU) going to the Big 12 (whatever numbers mean) when Missouri goes to the SEC.

I've lost track; are there now 12 teams in the Big 10, and would this make 10 teams in the Big 12?

KronoRed
10-18-2011, 02:10 PM
Missouri in the SEC would be a tremendous disappointment.

That's expansion for expansions sake.

Slyder
10-18-2011, 08:55 PM
Missouri in the SEC would be a tremendous disappointment.

That's expansion for expansions sake.

It's why I believe ESPN is behind most of this. They're trying to pedal off an inferior product (Missery) on CBS while they try and horde the ones that actually draw for themselves.

dabvu2498
10-19-2011, 07:49 AM
It's why I believe ESPN is behind most of this. They're trying to pedal off an inferior product (Missery) on CBS while they try and horde the ones that actually draw for themselves.

Sure, CBS still has the #1 SEC game of the week. But you realize that ESPN is in the middle of paying $2 billion to the SEC for broadcast rights. If anything, this means Missouri will actually be on ESPN more.

WVRed
10-25-2011, 01:30 PM
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/villepic.jpg

marcshoe
10-26-2011, 08:51 AM
One thing we've learned from this is to never put a number in a conference name. Or a location.

WVRed
10-26-2011, 12:20 PM
Just curious, but does anyone think Pitino shooting his mouth off cost Louisville into getting into the Big 12? I read where Big 12 officials are stressing unity and with Pitino making some very divisive comments and WVU being a worse fit geographically if it had any bearing.

jojo
10-26-2011, 01:02 PM
One thing we've learned from this is to never put a number in a conference name. Or a location.

When you have to resort to naming your divisions leaders and legends, you've already jumped the shark IMHO.

Given some of the nonsensical geographical atrocities that seem to be about to happen, maybe conferences should be named after famous clowns.

The draw of college football to me is the tradition and a huge part of that is the rivalries many of which are primarily driven by geography.

How the heck does the NCAA sell Boise St vs Rutgers? This realignment stuff is really making it very hard for me to pretend that college football really is still more pagentry than paycheck.

Slyder
02-02-2012, 10:36 PM
Time to raise this thread back up. Greg Swaim has spoken to "contacts" that the Big 12 has had conversations with Florida State, Clemson, BYU, and Louisville to get to 14. I don't know how true this is but I must admit short of ND joining this is probably the BEST case to get to 14. And what a way to go from the brink of extinction to competing for the BEST football in the nation!

wolfboy
02-03-2012, 10:48 AM
Time to raise this thread back up. Greg Swaim has spoken to "contacts" that the Big 12 has had conversations with Florida State, Clemson, BYU, and Louisville to get to 14. I don't know how true this is but I must admit short of ND joining this is probably the BEST case to get to 14. And what a way to go from the brink of extinction to competing for the BEST football in the nation!

Sometimes it's appropriate to take things with a grain of salt. Other times, it's appropriate to take things with a mountain of salt.

WVRed
02-03-2012, 11:06 AM
Time to raise this thread back up. Greg Swaim has spoken to "contacts" that the Big 12 has had conversations with Florida State, Clemson, BYU, and Louisville to get to 14. I don't know how true this is but I must admit short of ND joining this is probably the BEST case to get to 14. And what a way to go from the brink of extinction to competing for the BEST football in the nation!

Last I checked there's still the enlarged buyout in place for F$U and Clemson to get out of the ACC.

If the scenario did happen (highly doubtful), then the Big 12 should look into a four pod system if they could add two more schools. I'll throw in Tulsa and Tulane although there are probably better options:

Big 12 East:
WVU
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville


Big 12 Central:
Kansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas State

Big 12 Texas:
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor

Big 12 West:
Tulane
Tulsa
BYU
Iowa State

WVRed
02-03-2012, 11:09 AM
Missouri in the SEC would be a tremendous disappointment.

That's expansion for expansions sake.

Since Slyder just brought this back up, curious if you're opinion has changed or not given the success in basketball. I am actually starting to warm up to Missouri.

arrow.fletcher
02-03-2012, 11:05 PM
http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/37/b/happy.gif

The ACC remains solid at 14. But there have been hints that expansion to 16 could still be an option. Notre Dame and UConn remain the top options. Should Notre Dame make clear they would never join the ACC, then Uconn and Rutgers could be brought in at some point.

As of 10/5/11, The ACC is in waiting mode. The future of the Big East (should they lose schools to the Big 12, or TCU to MWC) will dictate the future of Notre Dame. With today’s announcement that Notre Dame will join Hockey East, it does add some speculation that if the Big East were to fall and Notre Dame were to join an all-sports conference, that the ACC could be the pick over the Big Ten. It is believed that if the ACC can get Notre Dame, they would bring in UConn for the #16 school, putting the final blow to the Big East with the ACC fully taking over the northeast region.

KronoRed
02-04-2012, 12:58 AM
Since Slyder just brought this back up, curious if you're opinion has changed or not given the success in basketball. I am actually starting to warm up to Missouri.

Nope, Missouri is still a pro sports state, and is still neither in the south or the east.

I still believe that if the Big10+2 expands again they will call Missouri who will immediately bolt.

Slyder
02-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Memphis joins the Big East. I have heard both 2012 and 2013 for them. It is believed by some they will make the jump in 12 to replace WVU when an agreement is announced. I still think there is a good low risk/high reward program in CUSA that is actually in an area to GROW rather than just increase the number of people who dont care about them. Thats ECU.

WVRed
02-09-2012, 11:32 PM
http://www.dailymail.com/News/breakingnews/201202090205


MORGANTOWN, W.Va. -- West Virginia University and the Big East Conference have reached a conditional agreement to settle their legal battles against one another, a source told the Charleston Daily Mail Thursday evening.

A formal announcement could be made as early as Friday. That is also when the Big 12 is set to release its 2012 conference football schedule, media outlets reported Thursday.

Have fun on the Island.

graham.great
02-10-2012, 01:06 AM
http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/37/b/happy.gif

gainst a college football landscape that has seen significant shifts and realignment over the past year, the Big 12 is now looking to add new teams to its conference.

According to multiple reports, TCU (which was supposed to go to the Big East in 2012), Louisville, BYU and West Virginia have all been rumored as possible targets. This, of course, comes on the heels of Missouri making it clear that it was exploring its options with other conferences – namely the SEC.

Last week reports surfaced that BYU already had an offer from the Big 12; however, it remains to be seen if the conference has enough allure to bring in a freshly independent school. Plus, the BYUTV channel dedicated to the program [Ed. Note: BYUTV actually is a pretty big deal] (think Longhorn Network with much, much, much less controversy) further complicates matters.

Slyder
02-10-2012, 01:19 AM
http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/37/b/happy.gif

gainst a college football landscape that has seen significant shifts and realignment over the past year, the Big 12 is now looking to add new teams to its conference.

According to multiple reports, TCU (which was supposed to go to the Big East in 2012), Louisville, BYU and West Virginia have all been rumored as possible targets. This, of course, comes on the heels of Missouri making it clear that it was exploring its options with other conferences – namely the SEC.

Last week reports surfaced that BYU already had an offer from the Big 12; however, it remains to be seen if the conference has enough allure to bring in a freshly independent school. Plus, the BYUTV channel dedicated to the program [Ed. Note: BYUTV actually is a pretty big deal] (think Longhorn Network with much, much, much less controversy) further complicates matters.

This is old news thats been rumored since TAMU left. The one I'm hoping to watch is the outright potential revolt by the football powers from the ACC (FSU and Clemson). One person was quoted as saying "the ACC broke into the Big East house and stole the Pinto and left the Porsche in the garage".

The only thing I can think of that is holding the ACC together is the endowment. The ACC I think has the largest endowment of all the conferences and that goes toward research at each of the member schools. *Note feel free to correct me if I am wrong about the last part*.

IslandRed
02-10-2012, 12:20 PM
From what I've heard, the ACC is like every other big conference -- planning for their equivalent of the Big Ten Network. Consider for a moment that in the conference's home states, the network gets on typical programming tiers at a higher per-subscriber rate. Now consider that adding Pitt and Syracuse just put 31 million more people in the ACC's home-state footprint, with the overall footprint including nearly a third of the USA's people (easily the most of any conference). Carry the math through to the bottom line and they think that's the Porsche. Not to mention adding two hoops powerhouses to a league that's always thought of itself that way.

Obviously, FSU and Clemson have different priorities and will at least listen to any other leagues that can offer better football without downgrading in the finance department.

swaisuc
02-10-2012, 12:38 PM
From what I've heard, the ACC is like every other big conference -- planning for their equivalent of the Big Ten Network. Consider for a moment that in the conference's home states, the network gets on typical programming tiers at a higher per-subscriber rate. Now consider that adding Pitt and Syracuse just put 31 million more people in the ACC's home-state footprint, with the overall footprint including nearly a third of the USA's people (easily the most of any conference). Carry the math through to the bottom line and they think that's the Porsche. Not to mention adding two hoops powerhouses to a league that's always thought of itself that way.

Obviously, FSU and Clemson have different priorities and will at least listen to any other leagues that can offer better football without downgrading in the finance department.

I agree with you about that being their plan, but I'm not sure if I buy the whole "footprint" strategy. I buy it even less when you start talking about population by state. Are you telling me that people in NYC/Philly (the two biggest markets in those states) now care about ACC football because of Pitt and Syracuse? Its one thing to be in the same state as a big market. Its another thing entirely to deliver that market.

IslandRed
02-10-2012, 12:59 PM
I agree with you about that being their plan, but I'm not sure if I buy the whole "footprint" strategy. I buy it even less when you start talking about population by state. Are you telling me that people in NYC/Philly (the two biggest markets in those states) now care about ACC football because of Pitt and Syracuse? Its one thing to be in the same state as a big market. Its another thing entirely to deliver that market.

It's not just about football, it's all sports, including basketball. (If you're trying to get on New York cable systems, it's more important to own Syracuse basketball than Syracuse football.) The beauty of the economic model is just like it is with the Big Ten network. In the home states, the conference stands a pretty good chance of bullying its way onto the expanded-basic cable or satellite tiers with a monthly per-subscriber fee. That's where the big money comes from, not ratings from live football games, which are hardly carried on these networks at the moment anyway... yet.

Redsfaithful
02-10-2012, 01:23 PM
http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/37/b/happy.gif

gainst a college football landscape that has seen significant shifts and realignment over the past year, the Big 12 is now looking to add new teams to its conference.

According to multiple reports, TCU (which was supposed to go to the Big East in 2012), Louisville, BYU and West Virginia have all been rumored as possible targets. This, of course, comes on the heels of Missouri making it clear that it was exploring its options with other conferences – namely the SEC.

Last week reports surfaced that BYU already had an offer from the Big 12; however, it remains to be seen if the conference has enough allure to bring in a freshly independent school. Plus, the BYUTV channel dedicated to the program [Ed. Note: BYUTV actually is a pretty big deal] (think Longhorn Network with much, much, much less controversy) further complicates matters.

I like the webcam affiliate link in the emoticon, that's clever. And keyword grabbing a news story related to the thread topic, that's almost good programming. Still looks like a bot though, have to try harder.

Revering4Blue
11-17-2012, 08:48 PM
The University of Maryland is in serious negotiations to join the Big Ten Conference, sources told ESPN on Saturday.

If Maryland goes from the ACC to the Big Ten, Rutgersof the Big East is expected to follow suit. The addition of Maryland and Rutgers would give the Big Ten 14 members as the league gears toward negotiations on a new media rights deal when its first-tier rights expire in 2017.

No date has been set for a potential announcement, though it could come as soon as Monday.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8644587/maryland-terrapins-rutgers-scarlet-knights-talks-join-big-ten-conference-sources-say

KronoRed
11-17-2012, 09:13 PM
Why the heck would the big 10+2 want Maryland?

This is like the SEC bringing in a mismatch in Missouri, expansion for expansion sake.

Revering4Blue
11-17-2012, 09:59 PM
Why the heck would the big 10+2 want Maryland?

This is like the SEC bringing in a mismatch in Missouri, expansion for expansion sake.

My guess is that the Big Ten Network has their eyes on the D.C TV market (Maryland) and the N.Y/N.J market (Rutgers).

However, College Football is an afterthought in both markets.

Mutaman
11-17-2012, 10:04 PM
My guess is that the Big Ten Network has their eyes on the D.C TV market (Maryland) and the N.Y/N.J market (Rutgers).

However, College Football is an afterthought in both markets.

NYC folks couldn't find Rutgers on a map.

Slyder
11-17-2012, 11:10 PM
NYC folks couldn't find Rutgers on a map.

Rutgers draws well, a couple of ESPNs highest rated games were involving Rutgers a couple years ago when they were potentially playing for Big East crown. Rutgers has always been that "what if" case.

I think its a great fit Maryland and Big 10. And a great financial winfall for an university that greatly needs it. I always thought it might happen, I am surprised though Rutgers would be #2, I always thought UVa or Ga Tech made a lot of sense.

Edit:
In a population center like the NY metro area you don't have to draw a huge number to get a lot of tvs. Rutgers does draw enough to move the needle if by default.

Reds Freak
11-18-2012, 12:10 AM
Rutgers draws well, a couple of ESPNs highest rated games were involving Rutgers a couple years ago when they were potentially playing for Big East crown. Rutgers has always been that "what if" case.

I think its a great fit Maryland and Big 10. And a great financial winfall for an university that greatly needs it. I always thought it might happen, I am surprised though Rutgers would be #2, I always thought UVa or Ga Tech made a lot of sense.

Edit:
In a population center like the NY metro area you don't have to draw a huge number to get a lot of tvs. Rutgers does draw enough to move the needle if by default.

I'm curious how the finances would work. Maryland just cut eight sports due to budget issues and now they can afford a $50M ACC exit fee? Would the windfall they would get from the B10 offset that?

Boston Red
11-18-2012, 12:13 AM
I'm curious how the finances would work. Maryland just cut eight sports due to budget issues and now they can afford a $50M ACC exit fee? Would the windfall they would get from the B10 offset that?

The rumor is that the Under Armour founder is footing that bill.

Slyder
11-18-2012, 12:17 AM
I'm curious how the finances would work. Maryland just cut eight sports due to budget issues and now they can afford a $50M ACC exit fee? Would the windfall they would get from the B10 offset that?

Plus there's no way in h e double hockey sticks of that 50 million dollar exit fee would hold up in any court as being enforceable. If they go its probably 20-25 mil. IMO. If the ACC really tries to hold the line on that 50 mil they might end up getting nothing and liking it.

Reds Freak
11-18-2012, 12:32 AM
The rumor is that the Under Armour founder is footing that bill.

Hadn't thought of that. Would have been nice if Kevin Plank could have stepped in when eight sports were getting cut last year. Football is king obviously in Div. I. I wonder how much, if any, consideration is given to these programs non-revenue sports teams when making these conference decisions.

Slyder
11-18-2012, 01:14 AM
Hadn't thought of that. Would have been nice if Kevin Plank could have stepped in when eight sports were getting cut last year. Football is king obviously in Div. I. I wonder how much, if any, consideration is given to these programs non-revenue sports teams when making these conference decisions.

Of course there probably is some. If Maryland starts receiving more money by the move to the Big 10 then they have more to budget and probably renew some of those lost programs. I know WVU restarted a couple non revenue teams with the move to the big 12.

Reds Freak
11-18-2012, 11:52 AM
I'd like to see the NCAA take control of college football realignment. Let schools choose whatever conference they want for their other sports. For football, create four conferences of 32 schools based on geography. Break down each conference into four divisions of eight schools. Schools would play each team in their division once for a total of seven division games and four non-conference games. The four winners of each division would play in a Final Four for their conference title. The four conference winners would play a Final Four for the national title.

This allows every team in the country an equal opportunity to play for a national title. It keeps travel costs down and increases attendance for all sports by breaking the schools up geographically. I would imagine the television money for a system like this would be astronomical. The schools that don't make the playoffs can play in bowl games. It keeps traditional rivalries alive by allowing schools to keep their conference ties with all other sports and allowing them to schedule out-of-conference games against traditional rivals without worrying that one non-conference loss will do them in.

IslandRed
11-18-2012, 01:06 PM
My guess is that the Big Ten Network has their eyes on the D.C TV market (Maryland) and the N.Y/N.J market (Rutgers).

However, College Football is an afterthought in both markets.

Yeah. I get that, but I have to agree with what Dan Wetzel wrote (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-s--rutgers--potential-move-to-big-ten-looms-as-risky-gamble-for-conference-17501209.html), if it's primarily about BTN money then the league is starting to let the tail wag the dog.

It's also interesting that Maryland was one of the two ACC schools who voted against raising the conference exit fee recently. (Florida State was the other, unsurprisingly.)

Mutaman
11-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Rutgers draws well, a couple of ESPNs highest rated games were involving Rutgers a couple years ago when they were potentially playing for Big East crown. Rutgers has always been that "what if" case.



I suspect those Rutgers games were out-rated by an old edition of Yankeeography on the Yes network. The only college football folks in NYC watch is Notre Dame. Turn on WFAN on a Friday afternoon in November and the #2 topic is the NFL. #1, as always , are the Yankees and the Mets. College football- nobody cares. Rutgers- get serious.

paintmered
11-18-2012, 07:56 PM
Looks like we're approaching the endgame for realignment. I just hope my Bearcats aren't relegated to the MAC by the time the dust settles.

ESPN is pulling the strings again.

Mutaman
11-18-2012, 09:08 PM
Looks like we're approaching the endgame for realignment. I just hope my Bearcats aren't relegated to the MAC by the time the dust settles.

ESPN is pulling the strings again.

Marquette will play em. If you insist on a football game too, we'll send UW-Whitewater.

Hoosier Red
11-18-2012, 09:25 PM
Rutgers draws well, a couple of ESPNs highest rated games were involving Rutgers a couple years ago when they were potentially playing for Big East crown. Rutgers has always been that "what if" case.

I think its a great fit Maryland and Big 10. And a great financial winfall for an university that greatly needs it. I always thought it might happen, I am surprised though Rutgers would be #2, I always thought UVa or Ga Tech made a lot of sense.

Edit:
In a population center like the NY metro area you don't have to draw a huge number to get a lot of tvs. Rutgers does draw enough to move the needle if by default.

Great points. Plus if the Big Ten Network gets even a sniff of the cable fees it currently brings in from the current markets, that's an absolute bucketful of money.

New York, Washington DC and Baltimore, heck at 10 cents per subscriber, that's a boatload. And that's before you get 1 person to tune in.

I'd love UVa. I think they'd be an excellent fit. Ga Tech doesn't really fit in with the other schools. It would be the smallest school outside of Northwestern, and it competes in a crowded market where it barely gets interest.

Caveat Emperor
11-19-2012, 12:23 AM
Looks like we're approaching the endgame for realignment. I just hope my Bearcats aren't relegated to the MAC by the time the dust settles.

ESPN is pulling the strings again.

It's getting harder to see a scenario where this story has a happy ending for UC fans. I think the silence surrounding them in every one of these expansion stories is getting a tad deafening.

Reds Fanatic
11-19-2012, 12:13 PM
Maryland is officially moving to the Big Ten starting in the 2014-2015 academic year. Rutgers will announce their move to the Big Ten tomorrow.

Boston Red
11-19-2012, 12:17 PM
Silly season.

And UC is likely screwed.

LoganBuck
11-19-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't think they are done at 14. I think you will see the BigTen make a play for 16. I think they will take two more ACC schools. My guess is that they are after two of UNC, Florida St, and Virginia. There has been some rumbling about Georgia Tech, too.

Rutgers and Maryland don't do anything other than grab the money they will need to buy the exit fees for bigger fish.

Slyder
11-19-2012, 02:01 PM
I don't think they are done at 14. I think you will see the BigTen make a play for 16. I think they will take two more ACC schools. My guess is that they are after two of UNC, Florida St, and Virginia. There has been some rumbling about Georgia Tech, too.

Rutgers and Maryland don't do anything other than grab the money they will need to buy the exit fees for bigger fish.

In this order IMO:
UNC
Virginia
Ga tech
Miami is the consolation prize.

Big 12 if forced keys in on:
Fla St
Clemson
Ga Tech/ Va Tech
Louisville
NC State

SEC is who I want to see and may dictate to the rest.

WMR
11-19-2012, 02:03 PM
I dont think sec has an appetite to expand further anytime soon.

Caveat Emperor
11-19-2012, 02:14 PM
I dont think sec has an appetite to expand further anytime soon.

Nor do they have any financial inventive to. Their TV deal (along with the B12's TV deal) doesn't expand if they add new teams -- it merely increases the number of mouths that need to be fed and shrinks the revenue pool for existing schools.

RiverRat13
11-19-2012, 02:31 PM
Has anyone else read any rumors that Fox, which owns a stake in the B1G Network and is about to acquire a stake in the YES Network, is going to bundle both YES and B1G together for NY/NJ cable networks and basically say if you want to carry YES on your basic tier you'll also need to carry the B1G on your basic tier? If that is pulled off, $$$$$ for the B1G.

Sea Ray
11-19-2012, 02:37 PM
In this order IMO:
UNC
Virginia
Ga tech
Miami is the consolation prize.

Big 12 if forced keys in on:
Fla St
Clemson
Ga Tech/ Va Tech
Louisville
NC State

SEC is who I want to see and may dictate to the rest.

I'd think getting into the state of Florida would be huge for the B1G.

It does seem as though we're going towards 4 super conferences with the ACC and the Big East left in the wasteland

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 02:53 PM
I'd think getting into the state of Florida would be huge for the B1G.

It does seem as though we're going towards 4 super conferences with the ACC and the Big East left in the wasteland

I think that's absolutely right. If you believe in a future sixteen team playoff, four conferences of 16 makes all the sense in the world. The ACC is in a fight for its life right now.

bucksfan2
11-19-2012, 02:59 PM
I'd think getting into the state of Florida would be huge for the B1G.

It does seem as though we're going towards 4 super conferences with the ACC and the Big East left in the wasteland

What would getting into Florida get the B1G? I would imagine that Maryland has a nice Academic University, but its athletic department has been in the tank since Gary Williams left. Their football program stinks, the only thing they really bring is the market, DC, Baltimore, and maybe some of Northern Virginia.

To be honest I was very much in favor of the Nebraska move. It brought a football "program" with a rich history and a very nice fan base. It may not have brought any major markets into the picture but it did add a 12th team for a title game. I think you also have to look at the PSU addition of years ago, big time program. Maryland and Rutgers do nothing for me, absolutely nothing. Both are blah programs who don't really do much if anything to the competitive atmosphere.

medford
11-19-2012, 03:08 PM
Aside from the markets and cable rights increase these 2 programs bring, it also sets up the dominoes for future expansion to 16.

Rumors of FSU to the B12 have been rampant for some time. This gives them more incentive to move on as Maryland will set the market place for buyouts. FSU may potentially take Clemson along with them, further weakening the ACC brand. That then gives VTech an easier path to leave for the SEC, something both sides would favor, which then opens things back up for the B10 to pick up Virginia, UNC or GTech to extend their reach along the eastern seaboard.

If all that happens, its hard to feel bad for the ACC who did all they could to kill off the Big East.

Sea Ray
11-19-2012, 03:15 PM
What would getting into Florida get the B1G? I would imagine that Maryland has a nice Academic University, but its athletic department has been in the tank since Gary Williams left. Their football program stinks, the only thing they really bring is the market, DC, Baltimore, and maybe some of Northern Virginia.

To be honest I was very much in favor of the Nebraska move. It brought a football "program" with a rich history and a very nice fan base. It may not have brought any major markets into the picture but it did add a 12th team for a title game. I think you also have to look at the PSU addition of years ago, big time program. Maryland and Rutgers do nothing for me, absolutely nothing. Both are blah programs who don't really do much if anything to the competitive atmosphere.

I think this is more about money than athletic competition and the Florida media market would be huge for the Big Ten Network. Markets, not athletics drove the Maryland/Rutgers deals. You just have to hope the athletics will catchup.

Slyder
11-19-2012, 03:35 PM
Nor do they have any financial inventive to. Their TV deal (along with the B12's TV deal) doesn't expand if they add new teams -- it merely increases the number of mouths that need to be fed and shrinks the revenue pool for existing schools.

I heard the opposite about big 12 deal. I heard that the networks say it depended on who more so than ACC style adding for the sake of adding (why Louisville isn't in already).

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 03:44 PM
What would getting into Florida get the B1G? I would imagine that Maryland has a nice Academic University, but its athletic department has been in the tank since Gary Williams left. Their football program stinks, the only thing they really bring is the market, DC, Baltimore, and maybe some of Northern Virginia.

To be honest I was very much in favor of the Nebraska move. It brought a football "program" with a rich history and a very nice fan base. It may not have brought any major markets into the picture but it did add a 12th team for a title game. I think you also have to look at the PSU addition of years ago, big time program. Maryland and Rutgers do nothing for me, absolutely nothing. Both are blah programs who don't really do much if anything to the competitive atmosphere.

I think your frustration is valid. It just doesn't matter. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8652493/as-maryland-rutgers-bolt-college-sports-caretakers-fail-again-men-college-basketball

WMR
11-19-2012, 04:03 PM
What would getting into Florida get the B1G? I would imagine that Maryland has a nice Academic University, but its athletic department has been in the tank since Gary Williams left. Their football program stinks, the only thing they really bring is the market, DC, Baltimore, and maybe some of Northern Virginia.

To be honest I was very much in favor of the Nebraska move. It brought a football "program" with a rich history and a very nice fan base. It may not have brought any major markets into the picture but it did add a 12th team for a title game. I think you also have to look at the PSU addition of years ago, big time program. Maryland and Rutgers do nothing for me, absolutely nothing. Both are blah programs who don't really do much if anything to the competitive atmosphere.

This isn't about the fans and it isn't about athletic programs.

It's about how many eyeballs and what sort of a marketshare your school can bring to the table. Period.

Reds Freak
11-19-2012, 04:10 PM
This isn't about the fans and it isn't about athletic programs.

It's about how many eyeballs and what sort of a marketshare your school can bring to the table. Period.

The worst part is the least important piece in the whole thing is now the student-athlete. They've become last on the totem pole...

improbus
11-19-2012, 04:26 PM
The worst part is the least important piece in the whole thing is now the student-athlete. They've become last on the totem pole...
And yet, if more money comes into the athletic programs, they can potentially give out more scholarships. So, in a way it does benefit some student athletes.

Hoosier Red
11-19-2012, 04:30 PM
The worst part is the least important piece in the whole thing is now the student-athlete. They've become last on the totem pole...


I don't think that's a new phenomenon but I agree it's what makes this stink the worst.

Reds Freak
11-19-2012, 04:35 PM
And yet, if more money comes into the athletic programs, they can potentially give out more scholarships. So, in a way it does benefit some student athletes.

That would be nice in an ideal world. In reality, all the money will go towards renovating football stadiums..

bucksfan2
11-19-2012, 04:40 PM
I think this is more about money than athletic competition and the Florida media market would be huge for the Big Ten Network. Markets, not athletics drove the Maryland/Rutgers deals. You just have to hope the athletics will catchup.

What market would Florida bring that the BTN doesn't already have? I was down in Naples, FL a number of years ago and OSU was playing a cupcake game that wasn't televised in Cincy. I was surprised to find out that in my grandparents condo the OSU game was televised.

Maryland brings DC, Rutgers could potentially bring NYC, FSU would bring what market? With all the northern transplants currently in Florida I don't think a Florida team will bring the BTN anything it doesn't already have.

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 04:42 PM
Does anyone else feel like Rutgers has revolutionized the WTH moment? First Schiano lands an NFL gig, then Rutgers lands an invitation to the B1G. :confused:

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 04:47 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland--rutgers-cash-in-on-their-incompetence-with-move-to-big-ten-19541709.html


Location, location, location. That's what this latest round of conference realignment is about.

Two largely underachieving, financially irresponsible athletic programs are parlaying their geographic proximity to major metropolitan areas into membership in the Big Ten. They've done very little on the field of competition to deserve it. But that's not what drives conference affiliation these days.

College Sports, Inc., is no meritocracy.

WMR
11-19-2012, 04:55 PM
If the SEC were to expand, and I could have my druthers, I think I would take UVA and Oklahoma.

Virginia Tech would work in place of UVA, but I think UVA is more attractive overall.

Two states where the SEC has no footprint and would bring added regional interest as well.

nmculbreth
11-19-2012, 04:55 PM
If nothing else this re-alignment fiasco has blown up the fracical notion that big time college athletics is anything other than an enterprise driven by the maximization of profit, which should hopefully pave the way to allow the athletes responsible for this profit to get a piece of the pie.

IslandRed
11-19-2012, 04:57 PM
What market would Florida bring that the BTN doesn't already have? I was down in Naples, FL a number of years ago and OSU was playing a cupcake game that wasn't televised in Cincy. I was surprised to find out that in my grandparents condo the OSU game was televised.

Maryland brings DC, Rutgers could potentially bring NYC, FSU would bring what market? With all the northern transplants currently in Florida I don't think a Florida team will bring the BTN anything it doesn't already have.

There's having and then there's having. Remember that the BTN revenue model is based on subscribers, not viewers, and the per-subscriber rate in the conference's so-called home territory is far higher than it is outside the territory, e.g. Florida. That's the impetus behind adding home-state territory in sizable markets. Not that I think FSU is on the B1G's radar, mind you.

WMR
11-19-2012, 04:57 PM
I guess UNC but I can't imagine them swallowing their pride enough to join the SEC.

Gallen5862
11-19-2012, 05:07 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/maryland-announce-move-big-ten-160742715--ncaaf.html

Maryland leaving ACC to join Big Ten in 2014

The ACC could now be in the market for another member and it would not be surprising if it looks to the Big East, yet again. Connecticut would seem a perfect fit after Pitt and Syracuse join next season

Boston Red
11-19-2012, 05:23 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/maryland-announce-move-big-ten-160742715--ncaaf.html

Maryland leaving ACC to join Big Ten in 2014

The ACC could now be in the market for another member and it would not be surprising if it looks to the Big East, yet again. Connecticut would seem a perfect fit after Pitt and Syracuse join next season

I guess it's a sign of the times that I laughed at how late this post is. I suppose this is why the 6:00 news is irrelevant now.

KronoRed
11-19-2012, 05:26 PM
I guess UNC but I can't imagine them swallowing their pride enough to join the SEC.

That are latched to Duke, and Duke is not coming into the SEC.

It will be NC State and Virginia Tech, that's if Virginia goes to the big10+4, poor Wake Forest will be left to die.

KronoRed
11-19-2012, 05:26 PM
Hard not to see some of these TV deals as being a bubble that will burst at some point.

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 05:37 PM
Hard not to see some of these TV deals as being a bubble that will burst at some point.

It's the only television product that people can't/don't use the DVR to fast forward through commercials. Couple that with the fact that there are highly desirable demographics watching live sports, and you begin to understand why networks are willing to pay big money for this product. Is it a bubble? Maybe. Is there at least a plausible reason why these contracts are going through the stratosphere? Definitely.

paintmered
11-19-2012, 05:39 PM
The best thing for UC is if any of the B1G, SEC or ACC make the move to 16 teams. The expansion list for the ACC is probably UCONN, UofL and UC (in that order). UCONN can pack their bags now. If the ACC moves to 16, add UofL and UC. If the other two leagues make the move to 16, they'll probably poach the ACC. When they do, UofL and UC backfill.

The really bad situation for UC is if the Big XII decides to make the move to 12. I see them going with UofL and BYU before UC.

If there's no more expansion, UC stays in the Big East. It's far from ideal, but at least we'd share the same bed as UofL.

Gallen5862
11-19-2012, 06:30 PM
I guess it's a sign of the times that I laughed at how late this post is. I suppose this is why the 6:00 news is irrelevant now.

I was just posting that article to show the possible move for the ACC. I don't see the ACC falling apart.

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 06:32 PM
The best thing for UC is if any of the B1G, SEC or ACC make the move to 16 teams. The expansion list for the ACC is probably UCONN, UofL and UC (in that order). UCONN can pack their bags now. If the ACC moves to 16, add UofL and UC. If the other two leagues make the move to 16, they'll probably poach the ACC. When they do, UofL and UC backfill.

The really bad situation for UC is if the Big XII decides to make the move to 12. I see them going with UofL and BYU before UC.

If there's no more expansion, UC stays in the Big East. It's far from ideal, but at least we'd share the same bed as UofL.

I can see the BE Catholic schools splitting and taking the name; Boise St. and SDSU heading back west to something like the MWC; and, the remainder of UC, Louisville, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU and others forming something like a revived Metro Conference. Best hope for UC is that when the B12 or ACC gets that expansion itch, UC is part of the scratch.

paintmered
11-19-2012, 06:40 PM
I can see the BE Catholic schools splitting and taking the name; Boise St. and SDSU heading back west to something like the MWC; and, the remainder of UC, Louisville, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU and others forming something like a revived Metro Conference. Best hope for UC is that when the B12 or ACC gets that expansion itch, UC is part of the scratch.

Between your post and mine was the word that the western teams began talks with the MWC. I can't say I blame them for keeping their options open.

Things move quickly, so it would seem.

wolfboy
11-19-2012, 06:52 PM
Between your post and mine was the word that the western teams began talks with the MWC. I can't say I blame them for keeping their options open.

Things move quickly, so it would seem.

I'd bet the Catholic b-ball schools are next. At that point, where's the leverage for a big tv deal? Might as well pick up the pieces and go back to something akin to the original CUSA and/or Metro that makes sense geographically.

dabvu2498
11-19-2012, 07:41 PM
I'd bet the Catholic b-ball schools are next. At that point, where's the leverage for a big tv deal? Might as well pick up the pieces and go back to something akin to the original CUSA and/or Metro that makes sense geographically.

I keep thinking that the basketball-only Big East schools will combine forces with the A-10. Not sure how it would exactly look, but I think that's probably their best bet.

dougdirt
11-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Cincinnati might as well join conference usa again and just oblitereate the conference for years to come. Somehow a Top 25 program in both basketball and football can't find a power conference that wants them.

Boston Red
11-19-2012, 08:24 PM
I keep thinking that the basketball-only Big East schools will combine forces with the A-10. Not sure how it would exactly look, but I think that's probably their best bet.

I assume G'town, Nova and St. John's find some sort of softer landing than this. As a Xavier fan, I don't want to be too greedy. That leaves:

Providence
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul

Kind of a homely lot (Marquette excluded). But it would still look nice in a combo with 8 A-10 teams (so that the auto-bid remains):

Xavier
Dayton
Butler
VCU
St. Joe's
Saint Louis
Rhode Island
Richmond

The biggest upsides for the A-10ers would be (along with adding Marquette) losing Fordham, LaSalle and Duquesne. I'd almost miss St. Bonny. Almost.

Never happen, I'm sure, but it's fun to dream.

Slyder
11-19-2012, 08:31 PM
The best thing for UC is if any of the B1G, SEC or ACC make the move to 16 teams. The expansion list for the ACC is probably UCONN, UofL and UC (in that order). UCONN can pack their bags now. If the ACC moves to 16, add UofL and UC. If the other two leagues make the move to 16, they'll probably poach the ACC. When they do, UofL and UC backfill.

The really bad situation for UC is if the Big XII decides to make the move to 12. I see them going with UofL and BYU before UC.

If there's no more expansion, UC stays in the Big East. It's far from ideal, but at least we'd share the same bed as UofL.

On the BGnews board they are talking about 20 team mega ultra conferences (4 divisions x 5 teams).

What I read (can't link):
B1G adds Maryland, Rutgers, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, FSU/Miami, Find someone (Pitt, BC, ???) , Notre Dame.

Pac adds Texahoma (Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State to get to 18 and thus no big 12 to sue), then 2 of Colorado State, Boise, midmajor Texas Schools, Air Force (with AFN deal), and it mentioned a couple other schools. Then both of them would have a united network that would show games on both.

Hopefully if this were to happen Ollie has SEC's contacts on speed dial from last year.

Mutaman
11-19-2012, 09:59 PM
Rutgers? In the Big 10? The conference of Hopalong Cassady, Red Grange, Dick Butkus, Crazylegs Hirch, Woody Hayes.... and Rutgers?

This has gotten beyond ridiculous.

improbus
11-19-2012, 10:06 PM
Rutgers? In the Big 10? The conference of Hopalong Cassady, Red Grange, Dick Butkus, Crazylegs Hirch, Woody Hayes.... and Rutgers?

This has gotten beyond ridiculous.

It actually is the birthplace of collegiate football (beating Princeton in 1869).

Revering4Blue
11-19-2012, 10:29 PM
Aside from the markets and cable rights increase these 2 programs bring, it also sets up the dominoes for future expansion to 16.

Rumors of FSU to the B12 have been rampant for some time. This gives them more incentive to move on as Maryland will set the market place for buyouts. FSU may potentially take Clemson along with them, further weakening the ACC brand. That then gives VTech an easier path to leave for the SEC, something both sides would favor, which then opens things back up for the B10 to pick up Virginia, UNC or GTech to extend their reach along the eastern seaboard.

If all that happens, its hard to feel bad for the ACC who did all they could to kill off the Big East.


But what’s that sound coming from the ACC’s headquarters, on the day one of its charter members hits the road?

Those are chickens coming home to roost.

What the ACC reaped in 2004, it now sows. Before the Big Ten and Pac-12 and SEC cut their various swaths through the college sports landscape, the ACC pretty much invented the concept of the “super-conference” as it exists today. It did so by stripping the Big East for parts.

The great irony of it? If the ACC as it once existed falls apart, what’s left will look an awful lot like the old Big East. Odds are that it might be as viable and relevant as the current Big East, too.

It no longer matters what school the ACC invites to join it next.

Eight years ago, it invited Karma. And Karma has now shown up.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-11-19/maryland-leaves-acc-for-big-ten-north-carolina-duke-pitt-syracuse?modid=recommended_4_5

Chip R
11-20-2012, 12:45 AM
That would be nice in an ideal world. In reality, all the money will go towards renovating football stadiums..

And paying football coaches and improving the facilities and so on and so forth. Sure, some of it will trickle down to the non-revenue programs but these programs have not flourished during this realignment era so I can't see how they will in the future.

KronoRed
11-20-2012, 06:42 AM
I think the Big10 is thinking 20 teams, then they will have Big 10 A, the original guys, and Big 10 B, guys brought in for TV markets, they won't play each other much but will have a title game at the end of the year and of course a unified TV contract.

Virginia,Ga-Tech,UNC,Duke,Pitt, Syracuse? Buffalo if they insist on AAU schools.

Reds Freak
11-20-2012, 08:05 AM
And paying football coaches and improving the facilities and so on and so forth. Sure, some of it will trickle down to the non-revenue programs but these programs have not flourished during this realignment era so I can't see how they will in the future.

Right. This is basically conference commissioners and ADs playing a game of "Who's got the bigger you-know-what". To hell with the kids. It's not good for college sports for each school to wake up each morning and wonder either what conference they will be in or who will be in their conference tomorrow.

wolfboy
11-20-2012, 09:10 AM
It actually is the birthplace of collegiate football (beating Princeton in 1869).

and only a handful of teams since...

Sea Ray
11-20-2012, 10:05 AM
What would getting into Florida get the B1G? I would imagine that Maryland has a nice Academic University, but its athletic department has been in the tank since Gary Williams left. Their football program stinks, the only thing they really bring is the market, DC, Baltimore, and maybe some of Northern Virginia.

To be honest I was very much in favor of the Nebraska move. It brought a football "program" with a rich history and a very nice fan base. It may not have brought any major markets into the picture but it did add a 12th team for a title game. I think you also have to look at the PSU addition of years ago, big time program. Maryland and Rutgers do nothing for me, absolutely nothing. Both are blah programs who don't really do much if anything to the competitive atmosphere.

There are a lot of people who live in FL so that means lots of subs for the Big10 Network. It also means a lot a recruits as it is an area rich with speedy, talented football players

Slyder
11-20-2012, 10:10 AM
There are a lot of people who live in FL so that means lots of subs for the Big10 Network. It also means a lot a recruits as it is an area rich with speedy, talented football players

Its not just that theres a lot of people in Florida. Where do a lot of people go to retire? Florida there's a HUGE population of snow birds and retirees from the target location of a Big 10 Network easy sale job to get covered if they can get "close enough" for the cable networks.

jojo
11-20-2012, 11:04 AM
Rutgers? In the Big 10? The conference of Hopalong Cassady, Red Grange, Dick Butkus, Crazylegs Hirch, Woody Hayes.... and Rutgers?

This has gotten beyond ridiculous.

I agree.

Mutaman
11-20-2012, 11:36 AM
I think this is more about money than athletic competition

This is why we pay you the big bucks.

Mutaman
11-20-2012, 11:38 AM
It actually is the birthplace of collegiate football (beating Princeton in 1869).

Rutgers to the Big 10 makes about as much sense as Princeton to the Big 10.

HotCorner
11-20-2012, 11:55 AM
First time I've seen UC listed as a possible ACC candidate ...



Jeremy Fowler ‏@JFowlerCBS
ACC in talks with UConn, Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati about 14th team to replace Maryland, source told @CBSSports.

Slyder
11-20-2012, 01:00 PM
First time I've seen UC listed as a possible ACC candidate ...

Maybe going to 16 eating the loss of revenue to bring in someone with ANY football credentials?

Sea Ray
11-20-2012, 02:32 PM
This is why we pay you the big bucks.

My check must have gotten lost in the mail

Hoosier Red
11-20-2012, 02:37 PM
If the SEC were to expand, and I could have my druthers, I think I would take UVA and Oklahoma.

Virginia Tech would work in place of UVA, but I think UVA is more attractive overall.

Two states where the SEC has no footprint and would bring added regional interest as well.


Virginia's a good target and an interesting case. They worked for years to bring Va Tech into the ACC. So I can't imagine they'd be real proactive in looking for a new conference unless they could bring Tech along. However if Tech hopped up and left (for the B1G 12 or the SEC). They're as good of a fit in the B1G Ten as there is.

Oklahoma would love to go to the SEC, but I think they're required(by the legislature) to bring Ok State along.

That's what's held Kansas back from being considered if I recall correctly(they'd be required to bring KState along.)

paintmered
11-20-2012, 04:03 PM
Virginia's a good target and an interesting case. They worked for years to bring Va Tech into the ACC. So I can't imagine they'd be real proactive in looking for a new conference unless they could bring Tech along. However if Tech hopped up and left (for the B1G 12 or the SEC). They're as good of a fit in the B1G Ten as there is.

Oklahoma would love to go to the SEC, but I think they're required(by the legislature) to bring Ok State along.

That's what's held Kansas back from being considered if I recall correctly(they'd be required to bring KState along.)

No Big XII school is going anywhere unless they can negoriate out of their Grant of Rights with the conference. They may add teams but they won't lose any.

improbus
11-20-2012, 04:24 PM
and only a handful of teams since...
Did you like how I didn't mention that part? I read a little on Rutgers history here (http://scarletknights.com/football/history/history.asp) and found a line that I just loved.


The eight wins of 1891 weren’t matched until Rutgers went 8-1 in 1947 with one of the most successful teams of coach Harvey Harman in the Golden Era immediately following World War II.

Talk about spinning over fifty years of losing into something positive. Nice work.

wolfboy
11-20-2012, 04:42 PM
Did you like how I didn't mention that part? I read a little on Rutgers history here (http://scarletknights.com/football/history/history.asp) and found a line that I just loved.



Talk about spinning over fifty years of losing into something positive. Nice work.

It's a bleak athletic program. 140+ years of football = 5 bowl wins. Over 100 years of basketball = 6 NCAA tourney appearances. How 'bout them apples Mike Brown haters?

wolfboy
11-20-2012, 04:43 PM
Good read on the B1G's recent moves from Grantland:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8654190/on-urban-meyer-ohio-state-wisconsin-big-ten-expanding-include-maryland-rutgers

It's sad that the fans and athletes are last in the equation, if they're in it at all.

BuckeyeRed27
11-20-2012, 05:11 PM
It's all moving closer to my four 16 team conferences with a soccer style promotion/relegation system that college football is perfect for. Just need a little more consolidation and a whole bunch of law suits and we got it!

Slyder
11-20-2012, 05:18 PM
No Big XII school is going anywhere unless they can negoriate out of their Grant of Rights with the conference. They may add teams but they won't lose any.

Big12 + PAC = 20 team mega conference west of Mississippi.

Hoosier Red
11-20-2012, 05:28 PM
No Big XII school is going anywhere unless they can negoriate out of their Grant of Rights with the conference. They may add teams but they won't lose any.

That's probably true now. However in the last wheel of alignment, Kansas was barely mentioned because they'd have to bring the other university along with them. Oklahoma and Ok State were always mentioned as a pair moving to the SEC/Pac 10-12-16.

Caveat Emperor
11-20-2012, 05:38 PM
Between your post and mine was the word that the western teams began talks with the MWC. I can't say I blame them for keeping their options open.

Things move quickly, so it would seem.

Probably for the best -- if the BE is going to be decimated and there's no other home for UC, the last thing they want to be a part of is a giant conference with burdensome travel costs that no one wants to show on TV.

Mutaman
11-21-2012, 08:51 PM
I know its all about the money and I know I'm missing something, but how does the profit motive trigger adding Maryland and Rutgers (Rutgers? !) to the Big 10? Is this an example of the free market running amuck? Is this simply gross incompetence?

dougdirt
11-22-2012, 09:57 AM
I know its all about the money and I know I'm missing something, but how does the profit motive trigger adding Maryland and Rutgers (Rutgers? !) to the Big 10? Is this an example of the free market running amuck? Is this simply gross incompetence?

They have "markets". They want to be able to package their network to more homes. That is why Cincinnati is unwanted by just about everyone.

Mutaman
11-22-2012, 10:53 AM
They have "markets". They want to be able to package their network to more homes. That is why Cincinnati is unwanted by just about everyone.


I suppose, but ask any bookmaker in the NYC market how much action he takes on Rutgers. Answer- not much, nobody cares. And New Yorkers will gamble on anything. Rutgers is on a level with NASCAR.

dougdirt
11-22-2012, 12:06 PM
I suppose, but ask any bookmaker in the NYC market how much action he takes on Rutgers. Answer- not much, nobody cares. And New Yorkers will gamble on anything. Rutgers is on a level with NASCAR.

Oh I agree. It is a joke. Rutgers is an absolutely terrible athletic school historically. They have been to 7 bowl games and 6 NCAA tournaments (none since 1991). Cincinnati has not exactly been flush with football bowl games, but has been to nearly twice as many (13) and has been to 26 NCAA tournaments. Can't find a conference that wants them.

WMR
11-22-2012, 12:11 PM
Few thoughts:

1) A really small piece of the NY/NJ pie is still a BIG piece of pie.

2) Better conference affiliation, like the B10, will eventually lead to more interest.

3) Factor in those living in NY/NJ who are a fan of a B10 team other than Rutgers. That's a lot of fans, I'm guessing.

Chip R
11-22-2012, 12:36 PM
I suppose, but ask any bookmaker in the NYC market how much action he takes on Rutgers. Answer- not much, nobody cares. And New Yorkers will gamble on anything. Rutgers is on a level with NASCAR.

That doesn't matter. What matters is getting the Big Ten Network into as many homes as possible so the conference can keep raking in that sweet, sweet cable money. Look at the markets they are going to have their product in. NYC, D.C., Baltimore as well as already having it in Philly and Chicago.

Caveat Emperor
11-22-2012, 05:36 PM
That doesn't matter. What matters is getting the Big Ten Network into as many homes as possible so the conference can keep raking in that sweet, sweet cable money. Look at the markets they are going to have their product in. NYC, D.C., Baltimore as well as already having it in Philly and Chicago.

This is accurate.

The issue is the subscriber fees paid by cable providers (per household) for the Big Ten Network. Within the conference footprint, the BTN charges something close to double for cable networks to carry it.

Lots of folks in DC / MD / VA and the NY/NJ media markets already get the BTN as part of their expanded cable package, and the B10 receives a set price per household. With the expansion of Rutgers and MD, now each of those cable viewers will be worth double to the BTN. Additionally, the BTN pushes cable providers to make the BTN a part of the basic cable package in these markets (and they run spots telling fans to "call your cable operators" and demand the BTN on their basic cable). If THAT happens, it increases the amount of money the BTN receives exponentially.

It's, among many reasons, why Cincinnati isn't considered any kind of "fit" for the BTN -- Cincinnati / NKY is already considered part of the BTN's footprint. They don't add revenue by adding Cincinnati the same way they would, say, Georgia Tech (Atlanta metro).

IslandRed
11-23-2012, 05:59 PM
Correct, CE, but I think it's an even bigger difference than that -- last figures I saw, a BTN subscriber in a non-B1G home state gets them somewhere between a nickel and dime per month. In B1G states, it was closer to 90 cents, and their near-universal success in muscling their way onto the nearly-everyone-gets-these-channels tiers means nearly everyone living in those states with a cable/satellite subscription is paying it. Multiply times twelve times millions, and we see where that's going.

Mutaman
11-23-2012, 06:20 PM
This is accurate.

The issue is the subscriber fees paid by cable providers (per household) for the Big Ten Network. Within the conference footprint, the BTN charges something close to double for cable networks to carry it.

Lots of folks in DC / MD / VA and the NY/NJ media markets already get the BTN as part of their expanded cable package, and the B10 receives a set price per household. With the expansion of Rutgers and MD, now each of those cable viewers will be worth double to the BTN. Additionally, the BTN pushes cable providers to make the BTN a part of the basic cable package in these markets (and they run spots telling fans to "call your cable operators" and demand the BTN on their basic cable). If THAT happens, it increases the amount of money the BTN receives exponentially.

It's, among many reasons, why Cincinnati isn't considered any kind of "fit" for the BTN -- Cincinnati / NKY is already considered part of the BTN's footprint. They don't add revenue by adding Cincinnati the same way they would, say, Georgia Tech (Atlanta metro).

If Rutgers is so valuable based on potential cable subscribers, why did the ACC ignore Rutgers when it was wooing Pitt and Syracuse? Why did the Big 12 when it went after West Virginia?

KoryMac5
11-23-2012, 07:47 PM
That doesn't matter. What matters is getting the Big Ten Network into as many homes as possible so the conference can keep raking in that sweet, sweet cable money. Look at the markets they are going to have their product in. NYC, D.C., Baltimore as well as already having it in Philly and Chicago.

Exactly the Big Ten Network gets 1.99 for each home that carries their programming whether people are watching the games or not. It's all about the network and putting money into the pockets of the universities.

KronoRed
11-23-2012, 09:35 PM
If Rutgers is so valuable based on potential cable subscribers, why did the ACC ignore Rutgers when it was wooing Pitt and Syracuse? Why did the Big 12 when it went after West Virginia?

Neither has their own network to sell.

WVRed
11-23-2012, 09:38 PM
If Rutgers is so valuable based on potential cable subscribers, why did the ACC ignore Rutgers when it was wooing Pitt and Syracuse? Why did the Big 12 when it went after West Virginia?

The ACC has been making a move more towards basketball. Syracuse adds the same NY base as Rutgers but provides a better basketball program.

As for WVU, I view WVU the same way as Nebraska. Tradition rich football program and loyal fans but adds little else. The Big 12 was also in a state of panic after losing Nebraska, Colorado, A&M, and Missouri and had to make a move to keep stability within the conference. TCU made sense given they were already in the state, but given the other options, WVU was the next available option.

paintmered
11-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Rumors swirling of the Big East Trio heading to the ACC. Announcement supposedly Monday.

Slyder
11-24-2012, 12:28 AM
If Rutgers is so valuable based on potential cable subscribers, why did the ACC ignore Rutgers when it was wooing Pitt and Syracuse? Why did the Big 12 when it went after West Virginia?

ACC is stupid and run by idiots.

Big 12 needed a quality athletic university.

Slyder
11-24-2012, 12:30 AM
Rumors swirling of the Big East Trio heading to the ACC. Announcement supposedly Monday.

Trio? Louisville, Cincy, and UConn???

wolfboy
11-24-2012, 12:50 AM
Trio? Louisville, Cincy, and UConn???

That's the rumor.

Slyder
11-24-2012, 01:01 AM
That's the rumor.

They can add those teams (and no offense UC fans) and the rest of college football won't care. If that's true I feel sorry for UC and Louisville they're about to become the red headed step children of a fate worse than Providence... Tobacco Road.

nmculbreth
11-24-2012, 01:32 AM
They can add those teams (and no offense UC fans) and the rest of college football won't care. If that's true I feel sorry for UC and Louisville they're about to become the red headed step children of a fate worse than Providence... Tobacco Road.

When the alternative is Conference USA, the ACC looks pretty darn appealing.

As a UC fan I'd be elated to see UC join the ACC. Realistically I don't think UC would be able to field a perennially competitive football team in any of the other power conferences, but I do think they'd be able to compete in the ACC.

And while TV execs don't seem to care, adding Louisville, UC and UConn to the likes of UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame should make for one heck of a basketball conference.

KronoRed
11-24-2012, 02:59 AM
The big 12 is idiotic to stand pat, they are the ones that need to add Cincy and Louisville, they should also take fsu, Clemson, GT and somebody else, execute the ACC as a football conference once and for all.

There can be only four ;)

Slyder
11-24-2012, 03:24 AM
The big 12 is idiotic to stand pat, they are the ones that need to add Cincy and Louisville, they should also take fsu, Clemson, GT and somebody else, execute the ACC as a football conference once and for all.

There can be only four ;)

I'm still not sure the 20 team league isn't the "goal". There's an easy sale most of the Big 12 schools. Head west. You take the entire group (minus WVU and someone else) that 8 puts the PAC at 20.

You would have a glorified 6x10 with 2 spots for "Upsets", "Cinderellas", and Notre Dame.

Top 2 of each pod moves on to the "qualifying" then proceed with 8 team playoff seeded much like NCAA basketball tournament.

If 20 is the goal ACC and Big East still die as football conferences.

SEC 14 now: FSU, WVU, Va Tech, NC State, TCU, and This is the tough one #20.

B1G 14: Virginia, UNC, Notre Dame, Ga Tech, Kansas, Miami (if B1G Network could get on in Florida talk about $$$ from snow owls)

PAC 12: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok St, Kansas State, Baylor (keep from sueing), ISU, then one of Boise, SDSU, Hawaii, Frenso, Colorado St, UT (insert letters here), Tulsa, etc depending on how the pools look.

That leaves the ACC with Clemson plus the Big East schools as the "anchor" I don't see that mess of schools doing anything EVER in football.

wolfboy
11-24-2012, 10:14 AM
They can add those teams (and no offense UC fans) and the rest of college football won't care. If that's true I feel sorry for UC and Louisville they're about to become the red headed step children of a fate worse than Providence... Tobacco Road.

Better than being marginalized in the Big 12. At least they'll have the best BB conference in the nation, close geographic rivalries, and the chance of competing in football.

joshnky
11-24-2012, 10:47 AM
Rumors swirling of the Big East Trio heading to the ACC. Announcement supposedly Monday.

I've heard this but not from anyone more credible than a message board. I have a hard time believing anything this big could get worked out over thanksgiving less than a week after the big ten bomb shell. I give this as much credence as the rumour last week that Louisville was going to pay fsu's exit fee so that both could join the big 12.

wolfboy
11-24-2012, 11:23 AM
I've heard this but not from anyone more credible than a message board. I have a hard time believing anything this big could get worked out over thanksgiving less than a week after the big ten bomb shell. I give this as much credence as the rumour last week that Louisville was going to pay fsu's exit fee so that both could join the big 12.

I agree. Until something's announced, I'm taking it with a huge grain of salt. That being said, message boards exist to discuss the latest unsubstantiated rumor on the Twitterverse.

Also, FWIW, the rumor originated from a tweet sent by a FSU beat writer.

Gallen5862
11-24-2012, 01:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/48649/new-acc-old-guys-vs-new-guys

New ACC: 'Old guys vs. new guys?'

NC State coach Tom O’Brien had a brainstorm this week for conference realignment featuring new divisions in 2014: Old guys vs. new guys.

“I think that’s probably a good idea on Tom’s part,” Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe said with a chuckle.

The thing is, O’Brien wasn’t really kidding. Can you blame him? Despite Maryland’s decision to join the Big Ten in 2014, there are still some traditionalists left in the ACC -- and many of them are head coaches. On Wednesday’s ACC coaches’ teleconference, Duke coach David Cutcliffe said he is “an ACC guy.” Grobe called himself “old school.” Mike London said he was “shocked” by Maryland’s decision.

The ACC was left to pick up the pieces following Maryland’s news, but it’s clear the rest of the conference is ready to move on, while at the same time trying to preserve the ACC’s history and tradition.

“The thing I would hope going forward, and especially because of the traditionalists and everything else, that we can’t do it next year, but certainly in 2014, that we can change our brackets and go back to the original ACC against everybody else -- the Wake Forests, Duke, Carolina, State, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Virginia – the original guys,” O’Brien said. “We go back to playing each other, and it can be the old guys against the new guys. I don’t care what you call the [divisions], but I think that would be something we ought to consider if we’re going to be traditionalists and think that’s important, maybe that can happen in 2014.”

Caveat Emperor
11-24-2012, 01:42 PM
I've heard this but not from anyone more credible than a message board. I have a hard time believing anything this big could get worked out over thanksgiving less than a week after the big ten bomb shell. I give this as much credence as the rumour last week that Louisville was going to pay fsu's exit fee so that both could join the big 12.

Brian Miller, writer for the Tallahassee Democrat had it on his twitter feed last night that he'd heard from well-placed sources inside the BE that UC/UConn/Lou to the ACC on Monday. It got pulled off his feed later on in the night.

BearcatLair is hearing the same chatter from "a lot of different directions."

I agree that it's nothing extremely well placed yet, but it's more than just posters on messages boards.

WMR
11-24-2012, 01:59 PM
ACC is desperate. I'm still not sure that this saves them, ultimately.

Caveat Emperor
11-24-2012, 02:16 PM
ACC is desperate. I'm still not sure that this saves them, ultimately.

Interestingly, all the power is being held by ESPN here -- I've heard some chatter that they've informed the ACC that they'd be willing to re-open negotiations on the TV deal if all the schools sign a grant of rights agreement to the conference. That would pretty much stop any poaching dead in it's tracks for as long as the grant lasts. Going to 16 and signing a GOR would not only stabilize the conference, it'd stabilize college football in general since 2 of the "Power 5" (ACC / B12) would have their membership completely locked down -- and I doubt you'd see much movement between the SEC and B1G.

ESPN can make that happen -- and, frankly, if the rumors turn out to be true and the ACC does add UConn/Lou/UC on Monday, I'd be shocked if it wasn't reassurances from ESPN that made it a reality.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 02:20 PM
The ACC has been making a move more towards basketball. Syracuse adds the same NY base as Rutgers but provides a better basketball program.

As for WVU, I view WVU the same way as Nebraska. Tradition rich football program and loyal fans but adds little else. The Big 12 was also in a state of panic after losing Nebraska, Colorado, A&M, and Missouri and had to make a move to keep stability within the conference. TCU made sense given they were already in the state, but given the other options, WVU was the next available option.

1. Syracuse does not add the same New York fan base as Rutgers. Folks in the metro area don't even realize that Syracuse has a football team. Actually no fan base for either.

2. I agree with your statement that the Big 12 made a "panic move" but I think this was a panic move by the Big 10 as well. I think the Big 10 freaked when they didn't get Notre Dame.

3. Admittedly I'm not too expert about how this Cable $ works, but I find it hard to believe that the extra revenue generated by Rutgers and Maryland (Rutgers?) will justify all the negatives resulting to the Big 10 by these additions. Bear in mind the NY market is fractured in cable carriers and they are tough negotiators. The consumer will not pay more to get the Big 10 network. There is simply not much of a fan base to drive revenue. Granted it's more more money but hardly a bonanza.

(Rutgers getting basted by Pitt as we speak. Imagine what will happen when they travel to Columbus or Madison).

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 02:23 PM
And while TV execs don't seem to care, adding Louisville, UC and UConn to the likes of UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame should make for one heck of a basketball conference.

About as good as The Big East which we've had for years. Without the Garden.

nmculbreth
11-24-2012, 02:24 PM
I've heard this but not from anyone more credible than a message board. I have a hard time believing anything this big could get worked out over thanksgiving less than a week after the big ten bomb shell. I give this as much credence as the rumour last week that Louisville was going to pay fsu's exit fee so that both could join the big 12.

I don't think it seems all that implausible.

Realistically speaking there are only a handful of viable replacement options and allowing the uncertainty to linger only encourages other current ACC schools to explore their options. It's not like either side is in a position to be super picky, nobody is leaving one of the other power conferences to join the ACC and only Louisville has garnered even a passing interest by one of the other major conferences.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 02:31 PM
For those of you who like me could care less about the rinky dink college football programs of the world (you know who you are) the idea of a national BB conference is appealing.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/22/report-big-east-schools-may-vote-to-dissolve-league/

Gallen5862
11-24-2012, 03:44 PM
The ACC with the new Big East trio plus Notre Dame would be the premier Basketball league.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 04:28 PM
The ACC with the new Big East trio plus Notre Dame would be the premier Basketball league.

Old Big East always was the premier league. six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. This change doesn't do anything for the college BB fan. Plus you eliminate the great traditional rivalries- Syracuse /Georgetown, Marquette/Notre Dame, etc, and the only post season tournament that anybody cares about. No improvement for anybody.

Gallen5862
11-24-2012, 04:47 PM
The ACC and the Big East were the premiere Basket Ball Conferences. The odds were that either the ACC or the Big East would win the championship.

Gallen5862
11-24-2012, 04:49 PM
The ACC tournament has always been huge. The Big East has drawn well in their tournament as well. I am a huge NC State fan. I would love adding UConn, Louisville and Cincinnati. It would improve the conference in both football and basketball.

Mutaman
11-24-2012, 05:49 PM
I am a huge NC State fan.


Never heard of them. :) I'm sure Boeheim and Patino are going to love going to Raleigh, North Carolina. Boeheim's probably checking his map right now. Not exactly Broadway, is it Rick? No wonder Calhoun retired.

Big difference between the ACC tourney and the Big East Tourney: the Garden and the NYC media!

wolfboy
11-24-2012, 07:36 PM
Never heard of them. :) I'm sure Boeheim and Patino are going to love going to Raleigh, North Carolina. Boeheim's probably checking his map right now. Not exactly Broadway, is it Rick? No wonder Calhoun retired.

Big difference between the ACC tourney and the Big East Tourney: the Garden and the NYC media!

Guess what? If they add Cinci, U of L, and UConn along with St. Johns to even up Notre Dame's BB addition, the prospect of taking the ACC tourney to MSG gets very real.

Slyder
11-24-2012, 11:10 PM
Guess what? If they add Cinci, U of L, and UConn along with St. Johns to even up Notre Dame's BB addition, the prospect of taking the ACC tourney to MSG gets very real.

It will be an insult to the history of college basketball in that fantastic facility. To go from big boy basketball to flop a long NC basketball wouldn't you want a refund? :D

WVRed
11-25-2012, 12:37 AM
1. Syracuse does not add the same New York fan base as Rutgers. Folks in the metro area don't even realize that Syracuse has a football team. Actually no fan base for either.

2. I agree with your statement that the Big 12 made a "panic move" but I think this was a panic move by the Big 10 as well. I think the Big 10 freaked when they didn't get Notre Dame.

3. Admittedly I'm not too expert about how this Cable $ works, but I find it hard to believe that the extra revenue generated by Rutgers and Maryland (Rutgers?) will justify all the negatives resulting to the Big 10 by these additions. Bear in mind the NY market is fractured in cable carriers and they are tough negotiators. The consumer will not pay more to get the Big 10 network. There is simply not much of a fan base to drive revenue. Granted it's more more money but hardly a bonanza.

(Rutgers getting basted by Pitt as we speak. Imagine what will happen when they travel to Columbus or Madison).

Syracuse is a basketball pickup only. Then again, if they add Louisville, Cincy, and UConn you could say the same thing. Syracuse basketball > Rutgers basketball. It's the only logical thing the ACC is doing.

The problem is that ultimately the football schools will be driven off, namely Florida State and maybe Virginia Tech (although UVA will probably have a say in that). If the SEC looks to expand, I wouldn't mind seeing NC State as a possibility. Rabid fanbase that is basically the redheaded stepchild of Tobacco Road but would add a solid media market and football program. If anything, it would be another Texas A&M.

Roy Tucker
11-25-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm just starting to wonder where this is all going to end up. Teams shifting conference to conference to conference. I get that its all about the green, but I'm afraid they are just going to break college football.

It's kinda like what I call the birdcage re-org in the corporate world. You have a cage filled with birds on various perches. You ka-wham the side of the cage and there is a great amount of squawking and fluttering as the birds fly and scurry around to find a new perch. But at the end of the day, its still the same cage and the same birds, just different perches. Not much changed, but a great amount of effort was expended.

improbus
11-25-2012, 01:13 PM
The irony of the situation is this: the only organization that can regulate the chaos is the one organization that everyone hates and mistrusts. The NCAA. But, there is one issue they should regulate: scheduling. This is the one thing that has always bothered me about college football and basketball (but is more egregious in football). How can anyone consider a season where a team plays 8 home games and 4 road games legitimate? I knows why they do it, but it is the biggest reason that the big boys of college football will always be the big boys.

Gallen5862
11-25-2012, 06:54 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/n-c-state-tom-o-brien-becomes-first-192716495--ncaaf.html

N.C. State’s Tom O’Brien becomes the first surprise coaching casualty

Not a lot of people considered Tom O'Brien on the hot seat this season, especially since North Carolina State finished 7-5, 4-4 in conference play and third in the ACC Atlantic.

Yet, O'Brien was the first coach shown the door Sunday following the Wolfpack's win over Boston College to mark the end of the regular season. O'Brien, 64, completed the Wolfpack's third consecutive winning campaign.

"Coach O'Brien's service to N.C. State over the last six years has been sincerely appreciated by Wolfpack Nation," athletics director Debbie Yow said in a statement on the school's website. "We especially appreciate his attention toward NCAA rules compliance, a value that will continue to be held by N.C. State. We wish him well in future pursuits."

But the season did not live up to expectations and the Wolfpack never posed a serious threat to ACC Atlantic stalwarts Florida State and Clemson in the standings. Even though N.C. State did upset the Seminoles 17-16, the Wolfpack's inconsistent play also led to losses to North Carolina and Virginia.

O'Brien was 40-35 in his six seasons with the program, but just 22-26 in ACC play. He was 11-19 against ACC Atlantic opponents and just 1-14 on the road against those teams.

Boston Red
11-25-2012, 07:34 PM
He was a surprise hire (since he was awfully average in Boston) and a surprise fire.

texasdave
11-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Big East adds Tulane in all sports and East Carolina in football.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/27/big-east-east-carolina/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

Boston Red
11-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Big East adds Tulane in all sports and East Carolina in football.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/27/big-east-east-carolina/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

The Big East has somehow managed to form a worse version of the old C-USA (no TCU).

Slyder
11-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Big East adds Tulane in all sports and East Carolina in football.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/27/big-east-east-carolina/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

ECU is about 10 years too late. They should have gotten an invite in 03 as a low risk/high reward right in the ACC backyard after the first raid. They have some potential and have shown some real desire to play big boy football. And has the money to invest (I think they just expanded their stadium). Granted I would have gone to 12 with the Big East championship and taken some schools who would travel to bowls (ECU) to try and make the whole Big East look more palatable to bowls.

WMR
11-27-2012, 01:49 PM
Memphis left C-USA to join........


C-USA.

Caveat Emperor
11-27-2012, 02:05 PM
Speaking as a Tulane alum, any conference with Tulane in it is a conference you want no part of.

Reds Freak
11-27-2012, 03:07 PM
This is such a stupid situation. I'm tired of it.

wolfboy
11-27-2012, 03:18 PM
This is such a stupid situation. I'm tired of it.

Amen.

wolfboy
11-27-2012, 04:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8683593/cincinnati-bearcats-making-strong-push-join-acc-source

joshnky
11-27-2012, 04:46 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8683593/cincinnati-bearcats-making-strong-push-join-acc-source

Were they not before?

Sea Ray
11-27-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm glad to see that the Bearcats are making a push to go to the ACC. I think that'd be a great fit


In making its case to the ACC, Cincinnati used a combination of athletic and academic qualifications, including how well its football and men's basketball teams have done as well as the size of its endowment and place in national rankings of top universities.

Can anyone tell me what academic qualifications have to do with a conference? How are the libraries or science depts linked in any way after joining a conference? I've never understood that