PDA

View Full Version : College Football Realignment



Pages : [1] 2 3

Slyder
07-19-2011, 04:30 PM
No its not a thread about 80s hair band White Snake. It's everyone's favorite yearly thread about College Football Armageddon via super conference. According to a couple sites that I visit Oklahoma is close to launching a Sooner television network, Texas broke their promise to not let the network have sole access to any Big 12 conference games, and Texas A&M is ticked off.

Texas A&M has (reportedly) gone back to negotiating with SEC. The rumors are SEC would look at going to 14 or 16. If 14 then the short list being rumored is WVU and Clemson for the other spot. If 16 they would want Oklahoma for the west and then two of WVU, Clemson, Va Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami, FSU.

Take it for what its worth. As a WVU fan the SEC is probably the best fit should we leave the Big East. 1) Similar college town, 2) Better football, 3) Most stable of all the "eastern conferences".

Some rumor are ACC has also been sending out feelers but... honestly they're trying to prevent the same thing the Big East is and thats Oblivion. If/When the Big 10 expands again the only reason they look at the Big East is to get Notre Dame, they couldn't care less about the rest. This leaves them with options of Maryland, Virginia, Missouri as the "diamonds". If the ACC were to lose a couple schools they quickly get torn apart and lose a lot of their tv marketability.

KronoRed
07-19-2011, 07:05 PM
The big 12 will crumble into nothing, the non Texas teams need to be looking for new places to go., the Big East should be looking for some schools to add to TCU.

I don't see the SEC looking at Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami or FSU, they are already on TV every Saturday in every town in those states.

WVRed
07-19-2011, 07:46 PM
I like John Calipari's idea of four "superconferences"

The champion of all four conferences would play in a playoff to determine the national championship while the remaining teams would have their own bowl games.

In basketball, all of the teams would be in the big dance. The only downside is no midmajors or Cinderellas.

The best part, its independent of the NCAA and the revenue generated would be enough to provide room and board for student athletes plus $3000-4000 a year in spending money.

Slyder
07-20-2011, 12:15 AM
I like John Calipari's idea of four "superconferences"

The champion of all four conferences would play in a playoff to determine the national championship while the remaining teams would have their own bowl games.

In basketball, all of the teams would be in the big dance. The only downside is no midmajors or Cinderellas.

The best part, its independent of the NCAA and the revenue generated would be enough to provide room and board for student athletes plus $3000-4000 a year in spending money.

I think that is also the point when Congress steps in and taxes the ever living bejesus out of the profits too. I can't see Congress sitting idlely by while 64 (ish) schools basically freeze hundreds of others out of serious money and take it all for themselves.

Slyder
07-23-2011, 12:59 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-07-20/oklahoma-texas-am-may-look-at-moving-to-sec-because-of-texas-tv-network?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec3_lnk3|79746#ixzz1ShDUd79u



A source told Sporting News on Wednesday that both Texas A&M and Oklahoma are so concerned about rival Texas gaining a recruiting advantage with the newly formed Longhorn Network, the two institutions could turn to the SEC if the problems can’t be figured out. The core issue: The Longhorn Network will televise live high school football games in the state of Texas, an obvious recruiting advantage for Texas. (Ed. note: The Big 12 announced later Wednesday that those plans had been put on hold.)

Copied the important portion of the article. More at the link.

If all four Missouri, aTm, OU, and Oklahoma State head to the SEC the Big East and ACC are SCREWED as major football conferences. I still believe that the Big 10 is only targeting the Big East because they want to get Notre Dame and Notre Dame only. I still feel the Big 10 wants Missouri, Virginia, and Maryland to go along with Notre Dame to get 16. This leaves the ACC as the Carolina League and the Big East as a conglomeration of northeast and catholic schools with little marketability as a whole. Could you make a "good enough" conference with the remnants of the ACC and Big East? Maybe but the Big East and ACC won't leave schools in the cold and that drags down the whole bunch.

dabvu2498
07-23-2011, 02:56 PM
If Texas drives everyone away from the Big 12, where do they end up??? Independent?

Slyder
07-23-2011, 03:26 PM
If Texas drives everyone away from the Big 12, where do they end up??? Independent?

Wouldn't surprise me. I think that has been Texas' goal since starting talks with the Pac 10. I'm sure they could find a home for their other sports just like BYU did when they decided to go at a network.

reds44
07-24-2011, 02:56 AM
I like John Calipari's idea of four "superconferences"

The champion of all four conferences would play in a playoff to determine the national championship while the remaining teams would have their own bowl games.

In basketball, all of the teams would be in the big dance. The only downside is no midmajors or Cinderellas.

The best part, its independent of the NCAA and the revenue generated would be enough to provide room and board for student athletes plus $3000-4000 a year in spending money.
As somebody who goes to a school who plays in the MAC, uh, that's kind of a big deal. And you do realize 2/4 teams in the Final Four this year and the team who has played in the last two championship games would not have been in the tournament, correct?

IslandRed
07-24-2011, 09:06 AM
I wasn't surprised to see the Big 10+1 and the Pac-10 maneuver into 12 teams. I also think conferences are kicking the tires on the idea of going to 16 but reluctant to actually make the leap. Just to take the SEC for example -- 12 to 16 means it needs a 33% jump in revenue just to break even. And I'm not sure where it's going to come from. They already have huge national deals with CBS and ESPN, they're already all over the TV in any market where they could conceivably expand. (Yes, viewership in Texas would increase with A&M and OU... but $60+ million per year's worth?) They already have a football championship game and a basketball tournament. It would complicate scheduling and increase travel costs. Maybe they know where the pot of gold is that would justify it, but I'm not seeing it.

KronoRed
07-24-2011, 04:49 PM
I think you'll see 14 before you see 16.

reds44
07-24-2011, 05:19 PM
Edit: Whoops, I'm an idiot. Nevermind.

Puffy
07-25-2011, 10:43 AM
If Texas drives everyone away from the Big 12, where do they end up??? Independent?

Yup. As a Notre Dame fan let me say that I'm hoping it comes to this. That means Notre Dame stays independent and gets Texas on the schedule every year.

Which would mean ND would play Michigan, USC, and Texas every year. Of course we will still get blasted for our "weak" schedule :lol:

medford
07-25-2011, 02:42 PM
Yup. As a Notre Dame fan let me say that I'm hoping it comes to this. That means Notre Dame stays independent and gets Texas on the schedule every year.

Which would mean ND would play Michigan, USC, and Texas every year. Of course we will still get blasted for our "weak" schedule :lol:

Nah, more fun to blast Notre Dame for losing to Navy all the time :)

Seriously, texas going independent, along w/ BYU would probably give Notre Dame reasonable partners to slide into a home/away schedule every year along w/ the continuation of Michigan, USC, Michigan St, Purdue and the academies.

WVRed
07-25-2011, 03:09 PM
I think you'll see 14 before you see 16.

16 could happen, but 14 is more feasible, especially if you slide Alabama or Auburn to the SEC East:

SEC East:
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC West:
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Oklahoma
Texas A&M

Unassisted
07-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Sitting here in Big 12 country, I'm not convinced that the Big 12 is as close to the precipice as the articles mentioned above indicate. Article in today's paper mentioned the possibilities of A&M and Oklahoma getting their own cable networks. That seems like it would be a more appealing option to the ADs than having non-revenue teams making road trips to the Eastern timezone for conference games. IMO, the executives at ESPN and CBS would like for this move to happen more than the non-Longhorn members of the Big 12 would.

Also, most of the high school football games in Texas are played on Friday night and the UIL, which is the governing body over the state's public high school athletics, doesn't allow member schools to televise Friday night games live. So that's a hurdle that will impede any high school TV plans.

WVRed
07-29-2011, 12:10 AM
Here is my idea for radical realignment for college sports:

A couple of months ago, John Calipari proposed a system of creating four unique superconferences. These conferences would basically break up some major conferences, namely the Big East and Big Twelve, and create a radical realignment. These conferences would ultimately play for a football playoff and all teams would be eligible for a basketball tournament.

I decided to create my own version of this and expand it even further. Basically, how to fix college sports, I've created four separate conferences:

Western Conference: Pac-12 teams, Big 12
Northern Conference: Big Ten teams, Big East, as well as Iowa State
Eastern Conference: ACC teams and remaining Big East
Southern Conference: SEC teams, Houston, UCF, and Louisville

The Western Conference breaks down as follows:

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Boise State
California
Colorado
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
UCLA
USC
Utah
Washington
Washington State

Now to simplify it, each team will be in 4 divisions of 4-5 teams each. The winner of each conference would ultimately play in a playoff format in college football to determine a champion:

California division:
California
Stanford
UCLA
USC

Pacific Northwest division:
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State

Texas Division:
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
Utah

Desert Division:
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

Onto the Northern Conference:

Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Iowa State
Marquette
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Purdue
West Virginia
Wisconsin

Geographical breakdown:

Central Division:
Illinois
Indiana
Northwestern
Purdue
Notre Dame
Great Lakes Division:
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
Michigan State
Marquette*

Northeastern Division:
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Cincinnati

Northern Division:
Iowa
Iowa State
Ohio State
Nebraska

Next up, the Eastern Conference:

Boston College
Clemson
Connecticut
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Maryland
Miami
UNC
North Carolina State
Providence
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
Villanova
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Northeastern Division:
Boston College
Connecticut
Syracuse
Rutgers
Providence



Carolina Division:
Duke
UNC
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Clemson

Southeastern Division:
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami
South Florida

Eastern Division:
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Villanova

And last but not least, the Southern Conference:

Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Central Florida
Florida
Georgia
Houston
Kansas
Kansas State
Kentucky
Louisville
LSU
Missouri
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt


Southern Division:
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
UCF
Houston


Central Division:
LSU
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
Alabama
Auburn

Midwestern Division:
Kentucky
Louisville
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Kansas Division:
Missouri
Kansas
Kansas State
Arkansas

Enjoy and pick apart as you please.

paintmered
08-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Strong rumors are that Texas A&M and Florida State are headed to the SEC.

It's time to set all the many pieces in motion. Here we go...

Assuming the rumors are true, here's my guesses as to how things will fall out (with a little homer optimism thrown in)...

- Texas goes independent
- Oklahoma, Okie State, Texas Tech and Baylor all go west to the Pac-10/12/16
- The B1G-10/12 makes the move to 16 and the Northeast by adding Syracuse, Pitt, UCONN and Rutgers
- The ACC regains its 12th member by poaching West Virginia

This leaves UC, Louisville, TCU and South Florida to break from the catholic schools, join Mizzou, Kansas, K-State and Iowa State to get to eight. This new conference then adds anywhere from 2-4 CUSA or other mid majors to get to 10-12.

If the B1G-whatever does not decide to make the move to 16, then the Big East moves to 12 by adding the remaining B-XII schools.

The wild card in all of this is that the Big East turned down a contract that would pay the schools more money than what the ACC is getting (The Big East is about to get paid in a very big way). The ACC might not have a play to the Big East schools like they did in 2003 since they can't simply throw money at schools this time around.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2011, 08:54 PM
16 could happen, but 14 is more feasible, especially if you slide Alabama or Auburn to the SEC East:

SEC East:
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC West:
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Oklahoma
Texas A&M

The SEC West needs a Vanderbilt-style punching bag. Bring Tulane home! We'll gladly take an 0-fer in SEC play to balance things out. ;)

Slyder
08-12-2011, 12:51 AM
Strong rumors are that Texas A&M and Florida State are headed to the SEC.

It's time to set all the many pieces in motion. Here we go...

Assuming the rumors are true, here's my guesses as to how things will fall out (with a little homer optimism thrown in)...

- Texas goes independent
- Oklahoma, Okie State, Texas Tech and Baylor all go west to the Pac-10/12/16
- The B1G-10/12 makes the move to 16 and the Northeast by adding Syracuse, Pitt, UCONN and Rutgers
- The ACC regains its 12th member by poaching West Virginia

This leaves UC, Louisville, TCU and South Florida to break from the catholic schools, join Mizzou, Kansas, K-State and Iowa State to get to eight. This new conference then adds anywhere from 2-4 CUSA or other mid majors to get to 10-12.

If the B1G-whatever does not decide to make the move to 16, then the Big East moves to 12 by adding the remaining B-XII schools.

The wild card in all of this is that the Big East turned down a contract that would pay the schools more money than what the ACC is getting (The Big East is about to get paid in a very big way). The ACC might not have a play to the Big East schools like they did in 2003 since they can't simply throw money at schools this time around.

I am telling you the ONLY way the Big 10+many takes a Big East school is that it lands them Notre Dame. There is ZERO chance that the Big Infinity would take ANY of those schools if it weren't for Notre Dame. I've read the reports also about the TV deal. And I would talk with the Big 10 and Notre Dame and try to see if there be any way to get that done without having to poach schools because here is what I see.

Big East adds: Va Tech, BC, and Big 12 remaints (K State, Kansas).
SEC adds: aTm and Clemson
Pac adds: TT, Oklahoma, Ok St., and Baylor
Big 10+ many adds: Notre Dame, Virginia, Missouri, and Ga Tech.
ACC Tobacco Road+ a crap ton of garbage from CUSA, MWC, etc.

WVRed
08-12-2011, 01:20 AM
I am telling you the ONLY way the Big 10+many takes a Big East school is that it lands them Notre Dame. There is ZERO chance that the Big Infinity would take ANY of those schools if it weren't for Notre Dame. I've read the reports also about the TV deal. And I would talk with the Big 10 and Notre Dame and try to see if there be any way to get that done without having to poach schools because here is what I see.

Big East adds: Va Tech, BC, and Big 12 remaints (K State, Kansas).
SEC adds: aTm and Clemson
Pac adds: TT, Oklahoma, Ok St., and Baylor
Big 10+ many adds: Missouri, Virginia, Missouri, and Ga Tech.
ACC Tobacco Road+ a crap ton of garbage from CUSA, MWC, etc.

I don't see the Big East or Big 12 surviving. The Big East has been rumored to be poached forever and the Longhorn Network is going to be the downfall of the Big 12.

I think the SEC will add two more besides T A&M and FSU. I'm going to guess and say both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

If the Big East collapses, I'm more interested in where WVU ends up. Geographically the ACC makes the most sense and the potential is there for rivalries. I'd love to see WVU in the SEC but it doesn't make much geographic sense and they would be a second fiddle team like Georgia or Tennessee in football.

Unassisted
08-12-2011, 11:08 PM
the Longhorn Network is going to be the downfall of the Big 12.The NCAA's declaration that it can't carry high school sports took a bunch of the wind out of those sails, IMO.

I'm still not convinced that A&M is offended enough by the Long Horn Network (the acronym they're using at UT) to be willing to travel to other states for ALL of its conference schedule in every sport.

I could be wrong. We'll see on Monday. :D

paintmered
08-12-2011, 11:25 PM
I am telling you the ONLY way the Big 10+many takes a Big East school is that it lands them Notre Dame. There is ZERO chance that the Big Infinity would take ANY of those schools if it weren't for Notre Dame. I've read the reports also about the TV deal. And I would talk with the Big 10 and Notre Dame and try to see if there be any way to get that done without having to poach schools because here is what I see.

Big East adds: Va Tech, BC, and Big 12 remaints (K State, Kansas).
SEC adds: aTm and Clemson
Pac adds: TT, Oklahoma, Ok St., and Baylor
Big 10+ many adds: Notre Dame, Virginia, Missouri, and Ga Tech.
ACC Tobacco Road+ a crap ton of garbage from CUSA, MWC, etc.

I disagree. Mizzou all but begged the B1G-10 for an invite the last go around, and the B1G-10 wanted no part of them. Why would the B1G-10 go after them this time when they could have earlier and chose not to?

And besides, why would the B1G-10 choose to not enter the big east coast markets? Market share and cable subscribers is driving the boat. The Big East has schools in the biggest of the east coast markets, which is why NBC is about to throw all kinds of money at the conference. Big East schools are going to get a bigger check than ACC schools after this is all said and done. They're not nearly as vulnerable as they were in 2003, no matter how weak the rest of the country perceives them to be at football.

Slyder
08-12-2011, 11:48 PM
I disagree. Mizzou all but begged the B1G-10 for an invite the last go around, and the B1G-10 wanted no part of them. Why would the B1G-10 go after them this time when they could have earlier and chose not to?

And besides, why would the B1G-10 choose to not enter the big east coast markets? Market share and cable subscribers is driving the boat. The Big East has schools in the biggest of the east coast markets, which is why NBC is about to throw all kinds of money at the conference. Big East schools are going to get a bigger check than ACC schools after this is all said and done. They're not nearly as vulnerable as they were in 2003, no matter how weak the rest of the country perceives them to be at football.

Notre Dame adds more to the tv sets alone than what the entire big east minus MAYBE WVU (and I fully admit my bias might be blinding me) does by themselves in the northeast. They don't care about UConn, Syracuse, or any other of the schoools they want the gem that is the Fighting Leprechaun. If they have to take extra mouths to get it so be it but if they don't and still get ND they would take it to the bank. Notre Dame would add THAT much (and probably more) to any tv package for the B1g Many network.

Mizzou would be a kick back to Nebraska. I think in the case that they get Notre Dame without the extra mouths they reexamine Missouri. Until then I expect Missouri to land with the rest of the Big 12 remainants in the Big East. If they decide its not a fit with Missouri then I would fully expect Maryland (which is in DESPERATE financial straits to come willing to pay whatever price). The Dark Horse school for me would be if Vanderbilt is tired of being the Harvard of the SEC (little to no chance). In a prime TV area (in between Memphis and Nashville I believe) maybe they would have some more success facing schools with closer academic standards to their own? Unlikely I know but it's something I'd at least set feelers out for.


Although if aTm, OK, and Ok Jr. Leave could the rest of the schools vote to kick out Texas and then just invite the football Big East Schools and thus "save" the BcS and conference per say? I ask because there are rumors that the SEC is suppose to be discussing/voting Monday on expansion and discussing aTm, Oklahoma and Oklahoma Jr (Ok St), Virginia Tech, and/or Florida State (at least thats the rumor I heard).

Hoosier Red
08-13-2011, 11:29 AM
If the Big Ten is going after markets, I'd go after Virginia and Maryland. That gets you the DC market pretty much locked up.

While Notre Dame is always mentioned, I really thing they'd be a bad fit except for football. Of course Football is the only thing that matters so I'm sure they'll move if the Big 10 moves to 16.

I think the other spot could be Missouri, Rutgers, Va. Tech, or any one else.

Hoosier Red
08-13-2011, 11:47 AM
A point I've seen from a lot of writers on twitter, It's remarkable that the entire landscape of college athletics is changing because of a school that hasn't won a bowl game in a decade and hasn't won it's conference since 1993. (I assume it was ineligible to win it in 1994.)

WMR
08-13-2011, 12:00 PM
A point I've seen from a lot of writers on twitter, It's remarkable that the entire landscape of college athletics is changing because of a school that hasn't won a bowl game in a decade and hasn't won it's conference since 1993. (I assume it was ineligible to win it in 1994.)

Meh, it just shows that dollars are driving the bus not W/L records.

Slyder
08-13-2011, 12:18 PM
I wanted to expand on the reasoning behind big 10 and Notre Dame.

Notre Dame as everyone knows is a member of the Big East in every other sport besides football. The Big 10 thinks that by destabilizing the Big East as a viable option for their non-revenue sports then Notre Dame's hand would be forced to join another conference. Notre Dame is unlikely to find another conference willing to let their football remain independent and be viable for their other sports and thus the choice at that time is join the MAC (or some other mid major conference) or join the big 10 in all sports.

Slyder
08-13-2011, 12:24 PM
I don't see the Big East or Big 12 surviving. The Big East has been rumored to be poached forever and the Longhorn Network is going to be the downfall of the Big 12.

I think the SEC will add two more besides T A&M and FSU. I'm going to guess and say both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

If the Big East collapses, I'm more interested in where WVU ends up. Geographically the ACC makes the most sense and the potential is there for rivalries. I'd love to see WVU in the SEC but it doesn't make much geographic sense and they would be a second fiddle team like Georgia or Tennessee in football.

The Big East still has one really really key trump card they can pull out if they need to. They're the last of the major conferences to renegotiate a tv deal. If the rumors are true (plus if the ACC losses one of or some combination of Va Tech, Clemson, Florida State, etc.) then the Big East deal is going to put the ACC to SHAME (some rumors are the Big East already walked out on a 15 mil per school per year deal with ESPN).

FYI the new ACC tv deal pays ~$13 mil per year per school average.

Here's the deal according to news networks.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/05/17/report-espn-wins-acc-television-contract/

RiverRat13
08-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Texas has completely overplayed its hand. There simply isn't enough programming for its own network. If Texas goes independent, it kills every other sport in the program other than football, and I think football would take a hit as well.

TheBigLebowski
08-13-2011, 01:09 PM
The SEC West needs a Vanderbilt-style punching bag. Bring Tulane home! We'll gladly take an 0-fer in SEC play to balance things out. ;)

Petrino will flee Arkansas soon enough and Miss State is only decent once every ten years. Seriously - you get cokes in their stadium from two liter bottles. No drink machines. Vandy's weaker than both of the aforementioned but MSU, Arky and Ole Miss's combined mediocrity makes up for it.

dabvu2498
08-13-2011, 02:44 PM
The SEC West needs a Vanderbilt-style punching bag. Bring Tulane home! We'll gladly take an 0-fer in SEC play to balance things out. ;)

I say get Sewanee back also so Vandy can have 2 teams in the conference they can beat. Bowl eligible, baby!!!!

Hoosier Red
08-13-2011, 03:15 PM
Meh, it just shows that dollars are driving the bus not W/L records.

It also shows why basketball is so relatively unimportant in this, at least when compared to football.
Has anyone made any offer to try to get Kansas? Obviously, they'd have their own drawback because they'd likely bring Kansas State with them, but if they were as popular and profitable in football as say Oklahoma, there'd be a lot more interest.

Unassisted
08-13-2011, 05:49 PM
ESPN's Doug Gottlieb says on Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/ESPN_BowlBound/status/102381916468150273): Source confirms #TexasAM to join #SEC; #Clemson, #FloridaSt, #Missouri also likely to join.

WMR
08-13-2011, 07:15 PM
It also shows why basketball is so relatively unimportant in this, at least when compared to football.
Has anyone made any offer to try to get Kansas? Obviously, they'd have their own drawback because they'd likely bring Kansas State with them, but if they were as popular and profitable in football as say Oklahoma, there'd be a lot more interest.

No one wants Kansas, which I find sort of amusing since they hate Kentucky so badly... if you can't bring big football dollars and eyeballs with you, you might as well be a leper.

WVRed
08-14-2011, 12:54 AM
The Big East still has one really really key trump card they can pull out if they need to. They're the last of the major conferences to renegotiate a tv deal. If the rumors are true (plus if the ACC losses one of or some combination of Va Tech, Clemson, Florida State, etc.) then the Big East deal is going to put the ACC to SHAME (some rumors are the Big East already walked out on a 15 mil per school per year deal with ESPN).

FYI the new ACC tv deal pays ~$13 mil per year per school average.

Here's the deal according to news networks.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/05/17/report-espn-wins-acc-television-contract/

This is the problem though, TV deals are a thing of the past.

A CBS/ESPN/NBC might pay for the rights, but the colleges and conferences are ultimately looking to pick up their own networks. The Big East may receive a sweet TV deal, but if a team can offer their own conference network with participating revenue sharing such as the B10 Network, I don't see any Big East team saying no to that.

With adding Texas A&M and others for a superconference, I look for a SEC Network to come soon. Same will likely go for the Pac-12 (16?)

The two big draws in all of this is football and media markets. The Big East may survive in all of this because there is such an unstable mix. WVU is probably the only football school in the Big East, but the SEC already has a presence in the state with UK. OTOH, Rutgers, Pitt, and Syracuse offer major media markets, but bring nothing if little to the table in football.

WVRed
08-14-2011, 01:01 AM
No one wants Kansas, which I find sort of amusing since they hate Kentucky so badly... if you can't bring big football dollars and eyeballs with you, you might as well be a leper.

I bleed blue just as much as you do, but if Kentucky would ever look to bolt the SEC, they would have the exact same problem if not worse. There really isn't much difference in Lexington and Lawrence.

Slyder
08-14-2011, 01:07 AM
This is the problem though, TV deals are a thing of the past.

A CBS/ESPN/NBC might pay for the rights, but the colleges and conferences are ultimately looking to pick up their own networks. The Big East may receive a sweet TV deal, but if a team can offer their own conference network with participating revenue sharing such as the B10 Network, I don't see any Big East team saying no to that.

With adding Texas A&M and others for a superconference, I look for a SEC Network to come soon. Same will likely go for the Pac-12 (16?)

The two big draws in all of this is football and media markets. The Big East may survive in all of this because there is such an unstable mix. WVU is probably the only football school in the Big East, but the SEC already has a presence in the state with UK. OTOH, Rutgers, Pitt, and Syracuse offer major media markets, but bring nothing if little to the table in football.

Big East Commish and WVU AD Oliver Luck's friend has been doing some work behind the scenes toward a "Big East Network". His name? Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue. There has been some rumors that the NFL network has been working on this "solution" for a couple seasons since the Big East went from Traghese to this new guy.

WMR
08-14-2011, 01:22 AM
I bleed blue just as much as you do, but if Kentucky would ever look to bolt the SEC, they would have the exact same problem if not worse. There really isn't much difference in Lexington and Lawrence.

Wv... "If Kentucky would ever look to bolt the SEC"... No. Just... no. That has less than zero percent chance of happening. We're a founding member, btw.

And you should check the attendance numbers before you go riding down the annual support the football team receives no matter how lean the years have been.

WMR
08-14-2011, 01:43 AM
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/d47a560045aad7aab88ffc9080650d5b/2010_Attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d47a560045aad7aab88ffc9080650d5b

Kentucky was 25th in overall Division I FBS attendance for 2010 and Kansas averaged about 22,000 less fans per game over their 7 home games.

IslandRed
08-14-2011, 05:42 PM
The SEC decides not to invite Texas A&M...

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6861385/sec-satisfied-current-alignment-extend-invite-texas-am

... for now.

Most people I'm reading seem to think this is a "not yet" instead of a "no." The SEC obviously wants to make sure they can get the team they want as #14, and consider whether there will be a #15 and a #16. And the #14 needs to start play at the same time as A&M, which would have been problematic for many potential targets if the Aggies were going to join for 2012.

So I guess we get to keep hearing about it for awhile.

Unassisted
08-14-2011, 06:31 PM
The SEC decides not to invite Texas A&M...

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6861385/sec-satisfied-current-alignment-extend-invite-texas-am (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6861385/sec-satisfied-current-alignment-extend-invite-texas-am)

... for now.

Most people I'm reading seem to think this is a "not yet" instead of a "no." The SEC obviously wants to make sure they can get the team they want as #14, and consider whether there will be a #15 and a #16. And the #14 needs to start play at the same time as A&M, which would have been problematic for many potential targets if the Aggies were going to join for 2012.
Still, it's an embarassment for the folks in College Station. They overplayed their hand and they made themselves look silly. :doh:

This kind of negotiation is best conducted privately, rather than in the media.

KronoRed
08-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Yeah the lack of a 14 is killing this for now had to
know that when espn talked absurd schools like Clemson or fsu

Slyder
08-14-2011, 07:02 PM
Yeah the lack of a 14 is killing this for now had to
know that when espn talked absurd schools like Clemson or fsu

ESPN is hoping to prolong the existance of the Big 12 long enough for someone to deliver the death blow to the Big East as a football conference. They don't want NBC getting a piece of the pie. They also know full well that the B12 survivors would likely end up together in the big east that is likely to be looking at 20 mil a year per team.

WVRed
08-14-2011, 10:09 PM
Wv... "If Kentucky would ever look to bolt the SEC"... No. Just... no. That has less than zero percent chance of happening. We're a founding member, btw.

And you should check the attendance numbers before you go riding down the annual support the football team receives no matter how lean the years have been.

I understand its never going to happen, but even with attendance figures UK is not that attractive. It's a basketball school in a small state. The only point I am making is that outside of basketball, Kentucky doesn't bring much of a following in anything else.

It's a moot point though, Kentucky is going nowhere.

WMR
08-14-2011, 10:24 PM
I understand its never going to happen, but even with attendance figures UK is not that attractive. It's a basketball school in a small state. The only point I am making is that outside of basketball, Kentucky doesn't bring much of a following in anything else.

It's a moot point though, Kentucky is going nowhere.

UK would be a much more attractive candidate than Kansas to a prospective conference, period. IDK why you want to discredit it, but averaging 65-69k fans per game year after year is a huge deal, especially when considering how generally lackluster Kentucky's football teams have been.

Stadium size and attendance are huge lynchpins in any school's desire to join/move conferences.

I do agree that your initial point about "Kentucky looking to bolt" was silly. ;)

IslandRed
08-15-2011, 09:28 AM
UK would be a much more attractive candidate than Kansas to a prospective conference, period. IDK why you want to discredit it, but averaging 65-69k fans per game year after year is a huge deal, especially when considering how generally lackluster Kentucky's football teams have been.

Stadium size and attendance are huge lynchpins in any school's desire to join/move conferences.

I do agree that your initial point about "Kentucky looking to bolt" was silly. ;)

Having good home attendance in football is nice, but that doesn't make money for anyone else. For another conference to want to bring you in, you have to bring something to the party to share. Kentucky basketball would be attractive to any and every other league -- name recognition, TV ratings, NCAA tournament payouts, packed houses when the Wildcats come to town. Kentucky football? Doesn't move the needle at all.

In that respect, UK and KU are more alike than different, although Kentucky's football program has been better supported over the years than Kansas' has been.

Luckily for the Cats, it's just a hypothetical because their league isn't cracking apart!

WVRed
08-15-2011, 10:37 AM
Big East Commish and WVU AD Oliver Luck's friend has been doing some work behind the scenes toward a "Big East Network". His name? Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue. There has been some rumors that the NFL network has been working on this "solution" for a couple seasons since the Big East went from Traghese to this new guy.

John Maranotto mentioned it a couple months ago about working on a Big East Network with Paul Tagliabue, but nothing was ever mentioned afterwards, not even from Tagliabue. There's been more speculation that the Big East is blowing smoke with it.

I do think there is more truth to the Worldwide Leader and the Big XII threatening a lawsuit if A&M had joined the SEC, which is why the Aggies were not invited.

Hoosier Red
08-15-2011, 01:29 PM
UK would be a much more attractive candidate than Kansas to a prospective conference, period. IDK why you want to discredit it, but averaging 65-69k fans per game year after year is a huge deal, especially when considering how generally lackluster Kentucky's football teams have been.

Stadium size and attendance are huge lynchpins in any school's desire to join/move conferences.

I do agree that your initial point about "Kentucky looking to bolt" was silly. ;)

I tend to agree with Island Red, stadium size and attendance are useful because they show what kind of support a program has. But one concern in particular that I heard when the Big 11 was looking at Nebraska was "Sure they always sell out their home games, but does anyone else in the country care?"
Apparantly the respective decision makers decided that the rest of the country cared enough.

Really it's 2 pronged answer; 1) Does admitting this school get the conference into a market that it otherwise doesn't have. 2) Does admitting this school bring the sort of attention that even people not in the school's market will care about.

I think in Kentucky's case the answer is yes to question 1, no to question 2(if you're talking about football.)

In any event, I'm happy the Big 10's not looking to kick anyone out because Indiana wouldn't be particularly attractive to any conference if it got the boot right now.

Slyder
08-15-2011, 08:08 PM
With the discussion/comparision of UK to KU brought another conference to my mind. I am not saying this IS going to happen but just bringing it up as something I see that COULD happen.

The Big 10 decides Notre Dame isn't going to ever join any conference so they expand to 16 and add Missouri (kickback to Nebraska and Iowa for closer rivals), Maryland, Virginia, and Georgia Tech. The commissioner stated somewhere (don't have the link) about the southward movement of the population and wanting to get the Big 10 relevant in the south hence (Georgia Tech) plus the 3 ACC schools (I believe) have the accreditation.

The Big East then knowing the Big 10 is done calls up BC, Florida State/Virginia Tech (other ends up in the SEC for discussion sake), and Clemson and they leave Tobacco Road behind.

Would Duke, UNC, Wake, Miami, and NC State have any value to anyone or would they be in the same boat as Kansas and Kansas State? That is who came to mind when UK/KU comparisions were flying.

IslandRed
08-15-2011, 09:19 PM
It's food for thought, and I can't help wondering if maybe there's a bubble forming with respect to college football and TV rights money that could pop at some point. I mean, there really aren't that many non-bowl games that get huge ratings, and the inventory is already starting to saturate the Saturday airwaves. I know ESPN/ABC, CBS, Fox etc. wouldn't be handing out the money if they didn't expect to get it back plus extra, but things don't always turn out as planned.

WVRed
08-15-2011, 11:12 PM
With the discussion/comparision of UK to KU brought another conference to my mind. I am not saying this IS going to happen but just bringing it up as something I see that COULD happen.

The Big 10 decides Notre Dame isn't going to ever join any conference so they expand to 16 and add Missouri (kickback to Nebraska and Iowa for closer rivals), Maryland, Virginia, and Georgia Tech. The commissioner stated somewhere (don't have the link) about the southward movement of the population and wanting to get the Big 10 relevant in the south hence (Georgia Tech) plus the 3 ACC schools (I believe) have the accreditation.

The Big East then knowing the Big 10 is done calls up BC, Florida State/Virginia Tech (other ends up in the SEC for discussion sake), and Clemson and they leave Tobacco Road behind.

Would Duke, UNC, Wake, Miami, and NC State have any value to anyone or would they be in the same boat as Kansas and Kansas State? That is who came to mind when UK/KU comparisions were flying.

I think Duke and Wake would have the hardest time. Duke's football program is atrocious and Wake is decent, but hardly overpowering.

UNC has had some success in football lately, although probation is looming. What is interesting is who they trail in attendance. UNC is 33rd in the nation in attendance, WVU (the top team by attendance in the Big East) is 32nd.

NC State is 34th in attendance and offers the Raleigh-Durham market. NC State has also had some success in football. The basketball team also plays in the RBC Center, which is home to the Carolina Hurricanes.

Miami has completely fallen apart but does offer South Beach as a potential market. They also have a new basketball arena as well, but the football facilities are extremely lacking.

I do find it interesting mentioning the Big East bringing back Va Tech and Boston College. I would have figured with the way the schools left and potential animosity that resulted from the traditional Big East schools that I doubt it would come to pass.

KronoRed
08-16-2011, 01:15 AM
I do think there is more truth to the Worldwide Leader and the Big XII threatening a lawsuit if A&M had joined the SEC, which is why the Aggies were not invited.

Yeah, the more that comes out the more it looks like the SEC is simply going to wait for A&M to quit the little 12 then invite them, and the A&M president was given authority today to do just such a thing.

dabvu2498
08-16-2011, 06:17 PM
School most screwed in all this: Iowa State.

Slyder
08-16-2011, 06:47 PM
I do find it interesting mentioning the Big East bringing back Va Tech and Boston College. I would have figured with the way the schools left and potential animosity that resulted from the traditional Big East schools that I doubt it would come to pass.

If the Big East is looking at getting to 12 or 14 and ACC shows chinks I'd do it in a heart beat and just spin it as the prodigal son (BC) returning home. Virginia Tech is too good of a program not to be considered for a return. I doubt that Fla State would leave ACC but I just wanted to get some opinions on the value of Tobacco Road in the general consensus outside of themselves.

Duke=Kansas
UNC=Kansas St (KSU has had some periods of success nothing major though)


School most screwed in all this: Iowa State.

And theres one school that might be more screwed in the Big 12. I think it could be argued that Baylor would be more screwed, there is some rumors that depending on situations that the Big East might take Iowa State if they go for 2 7 team divisions.

I see no way that Baylor lands in a conference. The Pac 12 has already said they want nothing to do with the Baptists at Baylor. They're too far west for a "midwestern" big east.

WVRed
08-16-2011, 07:22 PM
If the Big East is looking at getting to 12 or 14 and ACC shows chinks I'd do it in a heart beat and just spin it as the prodigal son (BC) returning home. Virginia Tech is too good of a program not to be considered for a return. I doubt that Fla State would leave ACC but I just wanted to get some opinions on the value of Tobacco Road in the general consensus outside of themselves.

Duke=Kansas
UNC=Kansas St (KSU has had some periods of success nothing major though)

This is the thing though, I don't see the Big East expanding unless its to either:

1. Replace teams that they could likely lose to the B10 or even the ACC if the B10 comes after them first.

2. Accept a new D-1 team who is already in conference (Villanova)

3. Add a team from a midmajor conference such as the A-10, MWC, or C-USA.

I will agree with you that Duke is the equivalent of Kansas, but UNC isn't in the same ballpark as Kansas State. UNC pulls similar crowds to WVU in football and present the Raleigh-Durham area in addition to Chapel Hill. Kansas State is the second best program in a midwestern state with not much urban pipelines close by.

IslandRed
08-16-2011, 10:02 PM
UNC has had some success on the gridiron over the years, but philosophically and culturally, they are far more closely aligned to Kansas and Duke than any football-first school like Kansas State or WVU. In one respect, UNC is a lot like Kentucky -- they want to win in football and they'll give it the old college try, but they need to win in basketball and will accept nothing less.

Elsewhere in the ACC... I have no idea what will still be left of Miami after the smoke clears from the meteor that just hit them.

KronoRed
08-30-2011, 05:48 AM
The New York Times is reporting Texas A&M has notified the Big 12 it will withdraw from the conference.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/story/2011-08-29/Report-Texas-AM-to-leave-Big-12/50183202/1

Hard to believe they would do such a thing without a sure bet of somewhere else to go.

medford
08-30-2011, 09:00 AM
The New York Times is reporting Texas A&M has notified the Big 12 it will withdraw from the conference.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/story/2011-08-29/Report-Texas-AM-to-leave-Big-12/50183202/1

Hard to believe they would do such a thing without a sure bet of somewhere else to go.

I can't believe they don't have a sure bet of where they'll land. Most likely, its a procedural thing the SEC is requiring to imune themselves from any lawsuits from Kansas, Iowa State, K-State, etc.. for breaking up the B12 by taking aTm from them. In this case, proceduraly, aTm would be a free agent, of their own accord, paying out a departure settlement to the B12 and the SEC just happens to be willing to accept the free agent with open arms.

Hoosier Red
08-30-2011, 10:03 AM
I think Duke and Wake would have the hardest time. Duke's football program is atrocious and Wake is decent, but hardly overpowering.



Wake Forest is also the smallest Division 1-A school aside from Rice. And they have no real geographic area to themselves.
Duke's not much bigger, and most of their fans are from New Jersey. Maybe the Big Ten will go after them instead of Rutgers. :)

texasdave
08-31-2011, 04:09 PM
The Texas Aggie domino falls.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/08/31/texas-am-big-12.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

Slyder
08-31-2011, 07:47 PM
I think the key is where Okie Jr, and Oklahoma go. If they stay true to the Big minus they add Houston and continue along. If they head East the ACC and Big East better pray they get drugged along when the superconfernces flex its collective muscle. If they head west the big minus will die but probably quickly end expansion... for now.

Chip R
08-31-2011, 09:57 PM
So what if the SEC takes a pass on A&M?

KronoRed
08-31-2011, 10:03 PM
So what if the SEC takes a pass on A&M?

A&M wouldn't be leaving if they didn't have a place to go, if not the SEC then someone else will have them.

I actually don't think the big12-3 will fall apart, Oklahoma seems to have tied themselves to Texas' bumper and the rest of the schools would be looking at Conference USA.

Chip R
08-31-2011, 11:43 PM
A&M wouldn't be leaving if they didn't have a place to go, if not the SEC then someone else will have them.

Well, they wouldn't be making the move if they were going to be left playing in the Sun Belt. But that may be where they end up. If the SEC takes A&M, they need another team. So who is it going to be? I don't think Florida's going to be crazy about adding FSU. Maybe there will be another Big 12 defection. But outside of the Oklahoma schools, Missouri is the only one that is relatively attractive. I guess I'm of the opinion that A&M isn't that much of a plum.


I actually don't think the big12-3 will fall apart, Oklahoma seems to have tied themselves to Texas' bumper and the rest of the schools would be looking at Conference USA.

It may not fall apart but if it adds schools like SMU and TCU, it may be on a par with the Big East.

KronoRed
09-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Well, they wouldn't be making the move if they were going to be left playing in the Sun Belt. But that may be where they end up. If the SEC takes A&M, they need another team. So who is it going to be? I don't think Florida's going to be crazy about adding FSU. Maybe there will be another Big 12 defection. But outside of the Oklahoma schools, Missouri is the only one that is relatively attractive. I guess I'm of the opinion that A&M isn't that much of a plum.


I don't think Florida would care, but I doubt it'll be fsu/Georgia Tech/Clemson/Louisville, the SEC is already on tv in every city in those states, A&M may be on par with Mississippi State right now but they do put the conference in the state of Texas.

My guess is it'll be West Virginia.

WVRed
09-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I don't think Florida would care, but I doubt it'll be fsu/Georgia Tech/Clemson/Louisville, the SEC is already on tv in every city in those states, A&M may be on par with Mississippi State right now but they do put the conference in the state of Texas.

My guess is it'll be West Virginia.

As much as I would love to see WVU in the SEC, I don't see it happening for the same reasons you listed the schools above. I live in Parkersburg WV and I get UK/SEC games through WSAZ. Because our news stations are in Huntington which borders Kentucky through Ashland, there is a UK following on those stations.

I see WVU staying in the Big East unless the Big Ten decides to bring Pitt, UConn, Syracuse, and Rutgers into the fold as rumored. If that happens, WVU would jump ship, likely to the ACC. If Virginia Tech happens to join the SEC, that would sweeten the pot for WVU to join. They could hold their own in basketball against Duke/UNC and would be one of the top football teams in the ACC, something that would not happen in the SEC.

IslandRed
09-01-2011, 12:19 PM
I don't think Florida would care, but I doubt it'll be fsu/Georgia Tech/Clemson/Louisville, the SEC is already on tv in every city in those states, A&M may be on par with Mississippi State right now but they do put the conference in the state of Texas.

My guess is it'll be West Virginia.

I've mentioned it before, but the thing that makes the dynamic a little different than in previous conference expansions: their TV deals with CBS and ESPN are already national deals. SEC games are already on TV where FSU and Clemson and Louisville etc. are, but they're also already on TV in Virginia and Texas and West Virginia and North Carolina. Moving into a new market helps -- obviously, the ratings in Texas will go up after adding A&M -- but the current baseline viewership in Texas is not zero. Ultimately, if TV is what drives the deal, the real numbers that matter are projections of national viewership increases. It might come from adding teams in different states, or it might come by adding teams perceived as TV draws regardless of where they are. I'm glad it's not my job to do the figuring!

Scrap Irony
09-02-2011, 02:47 AM
If you're going to do it, go big:

Northern Division
Missouri
Kentucky
Arkansas
West Virginia
Vandy
Tennessee

Eastern Division
Virginia
South Carolina
North Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Duke

Western Division
Auburn
Alabama
Mississippi
Miss State
LSU
Texas A&M

Football
Play everyone in your division, then match up seeds with other conferences and play four elimination games, Sweet 16 style with byes for top teams, play-in games among bottom teams, and best records playing at home. Imagine the drama. Imagine the millions. (Imagine the headaches for ADs and travellers.) Boy, wouldn't it be fun?

For example, Alabama gets out of its division with the number one spot in the West. It then has to play

Basketball
A 17-game schedule playing each team once, then a monster conference tourname, held over two weeks, first with elimination games for the lower division teams, then with games played on the home courts of the team with the higher seed, then, the last weekend, at a neutral site. A furious Febrary making way for March Madness. Made-for-TV drama.

Baseball
Play home and away two game series with every team.

WMR
09-02-2011, 04:41 AM
That would be pretty cool, Scrap. I might substitute Va Tech for Virginia.

I think it will be A&M and Fl State, Va Tech, or Missouri.

Captain13
09-02-2011, 03:24 PM
A&M wouldn't be leaving if they didn't have a place to go, if not the SEC then someone else will have them.

I actually don't think the big12-3 will fall apart, Oklahoma seems to have tied themselves to Texas' bumper and the rest of the schools would be looking at Conference USA.

Several of the schools have a home waiting for them in the Big East. Mizzou, Kansas and K-State would all be welcomed into the Big East.

Slyder
09-03-2011, 10:26 AM
I don't have a link but there is some news floating around that Oklahoma is giving a look to the Pac 12. Their president said they would take "2 to 3 weeks" to decide whether they were going to stay with the Big 12 or move west. Of course Ok State goes with them. The question is does Texas? One of the rumors about the salvation of the Big 12 last year was that the Pac 12 wouldn't let Texas start its own network, what happens with that now? I don't understand the move west, I would think teams be trying to move east (earlier games, more exposure).

I still think there are a couple surprises still to arise.

Chip R
09-07-2011, 10:39 AM
A&M has applied to join the SEC and they have been accepted. However one Big 12 is balking.

http://news.yahoo.com/sec-invites-texas-m-join-135153630.html

WVRed
09-07-2011, 11:10 AM
A&M has applied to join the SEC and they have been accepted. However one Big 12 is balking.

http://news.yahoo.com/sec-invites-texas-m-join-135153630.html

Sounds like the Baptists of Baylor aren't too happy. Can't say I blame them as they will probably be C-USA bound once the Big 12 dissolves.

Javy Pornstache
09-07-2011, 12:56 PM
nm

KronoRed
09-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Funny that Baylor had no problem saying 'screw you guys' to TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston when the big12 first formed.

BuckeyeRed27
09-07-2011, 05:39 PM
I wish there was more central oversight to this whole process. I think a lot of good could come from college football reorganizing, but not this way.

Slyder
09-07-2011, 10:35 PM
Funny that Baylor had no problem saying 'screw you guys' to TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston when the big12 first formed.

I think the only reason they were taken along was the fact the governor at the time was a Baylor alum and threatened to withhold other state funds if they weren't included. The others... not so much.

texasdave
09-07-2011, 10:54 PM
Funny that Baylor had no problem saying 'screw you guys' to TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston when the big12 first formed.

They will be back with them in the same conference soon enough. Except for TCU.

Slyder
09-14-2011, 11:55 AM
Newest News on the front is Baylor won't wave it's right to sue and thus holding up aTm's move to the SEC.

Oklahoma is flirting with the Pac 12. Pac 12 isn't sure about expanding.

And in the I can't believe Tobacco Road would be dumb enough to let this happen category...

Texas has begun talks with the ACC. Mainly Swofford is apparently willing to let Texas keep its network. Look at their track record and see what happened to the last couple conferences they were associated with. They would CRUSH most of the conference in their spending. FSU has responded with setting up a conference exploratory committee that would look getting into the SEC. Virginia Tech is also unhappy with this turn of events. The Pac 12 has USC/UCLA to keep Texas in check, no one in the ACC would provide that sort of check and balance to Texas.

IslandRed
09-14-2011, 01:16 PM
I wouldn't assume that just because the ACC is doing some preliminary talking with Texas, that it will automatically go along with anything Texas wants. There is very definitely an existing power structure in the ACC. In fact, I'd wager there are a few schools who might not mind Texas as a counterweight to that existing power structure.

The "pod" idea is interesting, though, because it implies the ACC would be willing to consider other Big 12 or Texas schools for the sake of a southwest foursome.

bucksfan2
09-14-2011, 02:46 PM
I was debating this with my friends the other day. The big schools will get there's and the others will get hosed. Just for fun lets assume that the Big 12 disbands with Oklahoma heading to the Pac12. You would have to imagine that Oklahoma St. would follow suit and head towards the Pac12 as well. So by my calculations there are two big fish out there:

Texas - Armed with the Longhorn network they pretty much can do what they want. The can go independent and become self sustainable. But the issue I see is what happens if the NCAA goes to football super conferences? Texas would need to join a conference in order to be playoff eligible.

Notre Dame - Perhaps the biggest fish of them all. The NBC agreement lets them stay independent for as long as they wish. But with the super conference scenario they need to join a conference. The Big 10 is the likely landing spot for them. Heck it has been the likely landing spot for the past couple of decades. But here is where everything gets interesting. Armed with Notre Dame the Big 10 has now gotten every TV market across America. They are in NYC and LA. They are probably in Boston and Philly. The only question would be the Dallas area. If the Big 10 gets those markets they don't have a need to take in any other schools. What does Pitt bring that Penn State already doesn't? What does Missouri and Kansas and KSU bring that Nebraska and ND don't. Syracuse? Already have NYC what does Syracuse bring?

I think the SEC gets very very interesting. Do Miami and FSU make the jump? Two prestigious academic schools jumping to the SEC? Location wise them make sense but not academic wise. What happens with Virginia, UNC, NC State and Duke? Three very prestigious academic schools as well as NC State who won't be left behind. I don't see them making the jump to the SEC. Do they stay with FSU and Miami and invite the likes of Louisville, UC, WVU, and Pitt? What happens to Kansas, KSU, ISU? What do they really have to offer? Are they forced to join the Big East?

A big benefactor of all this may be Xavier and UD. They may head to the basketball Big East and join a power conference. A big question is what happens with UC? Where do they end up? There are a lot of options to kick around with all the realignment.

medford
09-14-2011, 04:56 PM
First the B10 has been way, way to silent during this process. There is little chance they're sitting back and thinking "we'll sort it out later" Jim Delany and the B10 brass has to be having conversations with multiple schools, some more realistic than others I'm sure, but I believe a lot of the future of conferences will be shaped by what the B10 does. Mainly, what the B10 does will influence the likelyhood of the Big East's survivol in football. If the B10 expands to 16, I'd have to think that 2 out of Notre Dame, Missouri, Texas and Kansas are involved. I'm also guessing they'd want to expand east to 2 of Maryland, Syracuse or Rutgers to capture the NYC/DC markets and the increased cable rights fees that go along with it.

Long term, I don't believe going independent is a real option for Texas moving forward. The P12 has moved to a 9 game conference schedule I believe. The B10 has plans to do likewise in the near future. The main driving force is the TV money is higher for a conference game than a non-conference game vs some scrub warm up type team. Assuming the 12 game season remains intact (perhaps a foolhearty assumption) that leaves only 3 non conference games for BCS teams if/when they go to a 9 conference game format. Those same teams will likely want 2 "buy" games to fill their stadium and coffers and provide warm up for the conference. That leaves 1 game, most often early in the season for an early season, regional rivalry or a national marquee matchup. Going Indy would make mid - late season scheduling tough for Texas. I think they'd at least need some sort of quasi-conference arangement like Notre Dame has w/ the Big East to ensure some decent mid-season matchups. You can only play the army and navy's of the world so often.

On top of that, I have my doubts on the long term success of the LHN. ND on NBC works, because people across the country turn into ND football. Few people care about Texas football outside of the SW. Sure I'll watch a Texas matchup if its on ESPN, but no way am I going to cash out additional money to get a premium LHN channel to catch any Texas game. ESPN is already finding trouble getting the LHN on texas cable, its going to be even harder getting. On top of that, limiting a channel to strictly Texas means you'll have very little inventory of programming. There's not much of an audience for women's lacross or swimming.

If it becomes apparent that the 16 team format is going to come about, I also don't think Notre Dame will have much of an option but to join a conference. As mentioned above, scheduling will become tougher than it is today and it would shut them off from much of the future of NCAA football. I don't quite understand why the BCS allows ND the advantages that they do today in the BCS (I think they get an automatic invite w/ a top 12 finish) Why share that money and opportunity when you can split it amongst the 4 "super conferences".

Sea Ray
09-14-2011, 05:16 PM
If it becomes apparent that the 16 team format is going to come about, I also don't think Notre Dame will have much of an option but to join a conference. As mentioned above, scheduling will become tougher than it is today and it would shut them off from much of the future of NCAA football. I don't quite understand why the BCS allows ND the advantages that they do today in the BCS (I think they get an automatic invite w/ a top 12 finish) Why share that money and opportunity when you can split it amongst the 4 "super conferences".

That's a good point that I hadn't thought of. Seems to me that they could force ND to join a conference by dropping them from the BCS agreement. I think ND is no longer worthy of special treatment

Sea Ray
09-14-2011, 05:19 PM
I I think the SEC gets very very interesting. Do Miami and FSU make the jump? Two prestigious academic schools jumping to the SEC? Location wise them make sense but not academic wise. What happens with Virginia, UNC, NC State and Duke? Three very prestigious academic schools as well as NC State who won't be left behind. I don't see them making the jump to the SEC. Do they stay with FSU and Miami and invite the likes of Louisville, UC, WVU, and Pitt? What happens to Kansas, KSU, ISU? What do they really have to offer? Are they forced to join the Big East?



What do they gain by adding FSU and Miami? South Beach? Seems to me the SEC would want to expand its market to a state where they don't have a presence, like Virginia, North Carolina or Maryland

WVRed
09-14-2011, 06:57 PM
What do they gain by adding FSU and Miami? South Beach? Seems to me the SEC would want to expand its market to a state where they don't have a presence, like Virginia, North Carolina or Maryland

Which is why Virginia Tech, Missouri, and to a lesser extent West Virginia make the most sense:

Virginia Tech: Richmond, Roanoke, Washington DC

Missouri: St Louis, Kansas City

West Virginia: Pittsburgh

IslandRed
09-14-2011, 07:45 PM
What do they gain by adding FSU and Miami? South Beach? Seems to me the SEC would want to expand its market to a state where they don't have a presence, like Virginia, North Carolina or Maryland

Having done a lot of reading lately, Florida State is definitely the clash point of the two schools of thought regarding why and how the SEC should expand.

The first says what you said -- the geographic footprint is all-important, and there's no point in adding schools where they already are. The thing that will get ESPN/CBS to fork over more money is to have more TV markets be SEC home markets. Using that logic, adding FSU makes no sense because the SEC is already in Florida.

The second school of thought says, that's old-expansion thinking. The big SEC TV deals are already national, not regional, so adding schools in Virginia or North Carolina won't get the SEC on TV anywhere it's not already on. The thing that will get ESPN/CBS to fork over more money is to increase national ratings by increasing the inventory of attractive national TV matchups. Using that logic, FSU is the best choice because it has the biggest national brand name of the schools available to the SEC. (Let's assume for a minute that Texas and Notre Dame aren't in this discussion.)

Danged if I know what the SEC is actually thinking. In the end, as long as TV is providing the money to make all this work, what TV wants is what's going to matter.

Scrap Irony
09-14-2011, 08:29 PM
The second school of thought says, that's old-expansion thinking. The big SEC TV deals are already national, not regional, so adding schools in Virginia or North Carolina won't get the SEC on TV anywhere it's not already on. The thing that will get ESPN/CBS to fork over more money is to increase national ratings by increasing the inventory of attractive national TV matchups. Using that logic, FSU is the best choice because it has the biggest national brand name of the schools available to the SEC. (Let's assume for a minute that Texas and Notre Dame aren't in this discussion.)

Danged if I know what the SEC is actually thinking. In the end, as long as TV is providing the money to make all this work, what TV wants is what's going to matter.

I had never thought of this. It's a great point.

FSU makes all sorts of sense for the SEC.

IslandRed
09-14-2011, 09:09 PM
Unless it doesn't. :cool:

As a Seminole fan, I'm ambivalent about it because there are so many possibilities of how things could break, I honestly don't know what's best for the school. (I have plenty of company; at least where I hang out the most, there is little consensus on the issue.) I have no real fear of FSU being left out of the ultimate superconference party, but beyond that, it's like trying to see through muddy water.

Slyder
09-14-2011, 09:24 PM
Which is why Virginia Tech, Missouri, and to a lesser extent West Virginia make the most sense:

Virginia Tech: Richmond, Roanoke, Washington DC

Missouri: St Louis, Kansas City

West Virginia: Pittsburgh

I LOATHE the TV set question. Look at the ratings of ESPN games and WVU has some of the HIGHEST ratings ever for a lot of slots. Why? We have a much larger base that is scattered out across more areas than just WV and Pittsburgh.

WVRed
09-14-2011, 11:33 PM
I LOATHE the TV set question. Look at the ratings of ESPN games and WVU has some of the HIGHEST ratings ever for a lot of slots. Why? We have a much larger base that is scattered out across more areas than just WV and Pittsburgh.

In-state though, the SEC is already on TV in West Virginia as the Huntington/Charleston area has a Kentucky following and games are shown in the area.

WVU might have high ratings, but the SEC is already on in the state. Pittsburgh is the only draw that would entice the SEC because there is already a presence in-state.

Slyder
09-14-2011, 11:48 PM
In-state though, the SEC is already on TV in West Virginia as the Huntington/Charleston area has a Kentucky following and games are shown in the area.

WVU might have high ratings, but the SEC is already on in the state. Pittsburgh is the only draw that would entice the SEC because there is already a presence in-state.

Pittsburgh, Carolinas in general, DC, Baltimore, Ohio all have pretty big WV contingents of fans or former residents who moved for career reasons. Not to mention putting the SEC right on the Big 10s doorstep.

bucksfan2
09-15-2011, 09:49 AM
What do they gain by adding FSU and Miami? South Beach? Seems to me the SEC would want to expand its market to a state where they don't have a presence, like Virginia, North Carolina or Maryland

What markets do the SEC have now? I think they want to build the best conference in general to for a national ESPN deal. As of right now most of the SEC Schools are located in smallish college towns. I guess you could say their 4 largest markets are Atlanta, Knoxville, Orlando, and Lexington.

IMO they want to build a conference and say "We are the premier and are going to be the premier conference in college sports" and use that to parlay a huge CBS/ESPN contract.

Sea Ray
09-15-2011, 10:21 AM
What markets do the SEC have now? I think they want to build the best conference in general to for a national ESPN deal. As of right now most of the SEC Schools are located in smallish college towns. I guess you could say their 4 largest markets are Atlanta, Knoxville, Orlando, and Lexington.

IMO they want to build a conference and say "We are the premier and are going to be the premier conference in college sports" and use that to parlay a huge CBS/ESPN contract.

The best college towns are not in big cities. My guess is the SEC likes it that way.

I think adding Texas is not a good idea. Too big of a fish to swallow. They're already the premier football conference without any doubt. Adding a school like UNC would be nice for their basketball and academics but I have no idea if that unterests the folks in Chapel Hill

RiverRat13
09-15-2011, 10:27 AM
The best college towns are not in big cities. My guess is the SEC likes it that way.

I think adding Texas is not a good idea. Too big of a fish to swallow. They're already the premier football conference without any doubt. Adding a school like UNC would be nice for their basketball and academics but I have no idea if that unterests the folks in Chapel Hill

UNC would never join the SEC. Never.

Sea Ray
09-15-2011, 11:38 AM
UNC would never join the SEC. Never.

I tend to agree with you there

WMR
09-15-2011, 11:50 AM
IMO, Baby Blue would only move to the SEC if they could bring DOOK with them and that would never happen. (If the ACC ceased to exist, for example.)

WMR
09-15-2011, 11:51 AM
I still think the 14th will be either Missouri, Va Tech, or FSU. (In order of likelihood.)

RiverRat13
09-15-2011, 01:23 PM
IMO, Baby Blue would only move to the SEC if they could bring DOOK with them and that would never happen. (If the ACC ceased to exist, for example.)

Carolina would join the Big 10 or Big East before joining the SEC.

WMR
09-15-2011, 06:01 PM
Carolina would join the Big 10 or Big East before joining the SEC.

Big East over SEC? That's a joke, right?

Big East is where you go to avoid Conference USA or the Sun Belt (although I hear that Florida International has a hell of a team this year ;)).

IslandRed
09-15-2011, 07:04 PM
Big East over SEC? That's a joke, right?

Be wary of projecting the SEC value system onto a school that doesn't share it.

WMR
09-15-2011, 07:06 PM
Be wary of projecting the SEC value system onto a school that doesn't share it.

What school doesn't value money and stability?

The idea that any school would willingly choose the worst and least stable BCS conference (although, truthfully, the Big 12 could also compete for least stable title) over the best and most stable is just silly.

IslandRed
09-15-2011, 07:20 PM
What school doesn't value money and stability?

The idea that any school would willingly choose the worst and least stable BCS conference (although, truthfully, the Big 12 could also compete for least stable title) over the best and most stable is just silly.

Well, if you're going to force me to say it... UNC is a public school that views itself as a private school, they're kind of snobs about their academic reputation, they're sensitive to the company they keep, and they think moving to the SEC would be like moving to the projects.

Doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, that's how they think. Football simply doesn't drive the decision-making the way it does at most other schools.

Now if it was their basketball team at risk and they needed the SEC to save it...

WMR
09-15-2011, 07:23 PM
Well, if you're going to force me to say it... UNC is a public school that views itself as a private school, they're kind of snobs about it, they're sensitive to the company they keep, and they think moving to the SEC would be like moving to the projects.

Doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, that's how they think. Football simply doesn't drive the decision-making the way it does at most other schools.

Now if it was their basketball team at risk and they needed the SEC to save it...

Okay, I could see the argument in your first paragraph as a reason to go to the B10 over the SEC, but certainly not the Big East.

I disagree with you, however, that football wouldn't be a primary consideration even for a traditional basketball power like UNC.

Football is driving the bus in all of this, even when it's at a "non-football" school.

How many schools in the Big East would have a comfortable time finding a landing spot in a BCS conference were the Big East to cease to exist (Or lose its automatic qualifier status?)

BTW: Vandy thinks UNC and their holier-than-thou worldview are pikers. :D

IslandRed
09-15-2011, 07:30 PM
Okay, I could see the argument in your first paragraph as a reason to go to the B10 over the SEC, but certainly not the Big East.

I disagree with you, however, that football wouldn't be a primary consideration even for a traditional basketball power like UNC.

Football is driving the bus in all of this, even when it's at a "non-football" school.

A consideration? Sure. The consideration that overrides all others, including academics and basketball? In UNC's case, I'd bet against.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical. Even in a superconference free-for-all, there are going to be at least four leagues, and with the SEC, Big Ten and Pac carving up pretty much everything worth having west of the Eastern time zone, that still leaves an eastern conference. The ACC and Big East might have to merge and spin off the basketball-only schools, but UNC is in no danger of being left out of the party as I see it.

WMR
09-15-2011, 07:33 PM
A consideration? Sure. The consideration that overrides all others, including academics and basketball? In UNC's case, I'd bet against.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical. Even in a superconference free-for-all, there are going to be at least four leagues, and with the SEC, Big Ten and Pac carving up pretty much everything worth having west of the Eastern time zone, that still leaves an eastern conference. The ACC and Big East might have to merge and spin off the basketball-only schools, but UNC is in no danger of being left out of the party as I see it.

Definitely not, UNC will be fine.

I think you're right about the ACC and Big East merging but, IMO, you would see the ACC remain almost entirely intact and taking only the "upper crust" of the Big East to fill in the holes created by expansion and members poached by one of the other "superconferences."

dabvu2498
09-15-2011, 08:25 PM
What markets do the SEC have now? I think they want to build the best conference in general to for a national ESPN deal. As of right now most of the SEC Schools are located in smallish college towns. I guess you could say their 4 largest markets are Atlanta, Knoxville, Orlando, and Lexington.


Cities that you might not expect to have an SEC Network affiliate that do:

Anchorage, AK
Denver
Honolulu
Detroit
Minneapolis
Kansas City
St. Louis
New York
Columbus
Philadephia
Dallas
San Antonio
Spokane

http://sec.xosdigitallabs.com/Portals/3/SEC%20Website/Clearances.pdf

RiverRat13
09-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Well, if you're going to force me to say it... UNC is a public school that views itself as a private school, they're kind of snobs about their academic reputation, they're sensitive to the company they keep, and they think moving to the SEC would be like moving to the projects.

Doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, that's how they think. Football simply doesn't drive the decision-making the way it does at most other schools.

Now if it was their basketball team at risk and they needed the SEC to save it...

Yep.

WVRed
09-15-2011, 08:51 PM
Well, if you're going to force me to say it... UNC is a public school that views itself as a private school, they're kind of snobs about their academic reputation, they're sensitive to the company they keep, and they think moving to the SEC would be like moving to the projects.

Doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, that's how they think. Football simply doesn't drive the decision-making the way it does at most other schools.

Now if it was their basketball team at risk and they needed the SEC to save it...

The bolded part could be said about Kentucky. The rest, not so much. UNC's football program, even with probation, is on par with Kentucky's. They've actually produced some pretty good prospects lately, not that anyone in baby blue seems to care.

As for the Big East, they are the premiere basketball conference, but football is the horse that drives the carriage in all of college sports. The conference has shown to be historically behind compared to other conferences and the last poaching by the ACC is living proof of that. They added TCU in all sports just so they could keep their automatic bid.

Sea Ray
09-15-2011, 09:20 PM
Well, if you're going to force me to say it... UNC is a public school that views itself as a private school, they're kind of snobs about their academic reputation, they're sensitive to the company they keep, and they think moving to the SEC would be like moving to the projects.

Doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, that's how they think. Football simply doesn't drive the decision-making the way it does at most other schools.

Now if it was their basketball team at risk and they needed the SEC to save it...

Fair enough but where does the Big East fit in with UNC's philosophy?

WVRed
09-15-2011, 09:32 PM
Fair enough but where does the Big East fit in with UNC's philosophy?

I kinda thought the same thing. The Big East is mostly metro areas or Catholic schools. UNC is neither.

UNC is more of a Big Ten school. Problem is, the Big Ten would never look at UNC.

RiverRat13
09-15-2011, 10:36 PM
Fair enough but where does the Big East fit in with UNC's philosophy?

I only included the Big East because I assumed we were talking about a scenario where there's no ACC.

And there have been rumors that the Big 10 has indeed looked at UNC. I don't see it happening, but why wouldn't the Big 10 love to get a foothold in a growing state in the South, especially a state of nine million people? UNC would bring the Big Ten Network into about four times the amount of homes than Nebraska is going to bring. But as long as there is an ACC, Carolina will be in it.

KronoRed
09-15-2011, 10:49 PM
I still think the 14th will be either Missouri, Va Tech, or FSU. (In order of likelihood.)

It won't be someone from the ACC, when the vote was taken to let A&M in many articles said that they also put Missouri and WVU on the maybe table, this goes back to the last expansion, but I've read many times the SEC and ACC have a friendly agreement not to try and raid the other.

RiverRat13
09-15-2011, 11:04 PM
It won't be someone from the ACC, when the vote was taken to let A&M in many articles said that they also put Missouri and WVU on the maybe table, this goes back to the last expansion, but I've read many times the SEC and ACC have a friendly agreement not to try and raid the other.

I think I read that supposedly Florida, South Carolina and Georgia have a pack to vote against a second team from one of their states (FSU, Clemson or GT) being admitted into the SEC. Those three schools like the advantage of being the only SEC member in their respective state.

Slyder
09-15-2011, 11:33 PM
If FSU is truly peeved at Tobacco Road Mafia and a quote from a Raliegh Radio station is true (basketball is what the next expansion will be about)....

Split from the bball with an agreement that they play each other in the other sports since its easy trips for the non revenue teams for most of the teams and great for tv spots in the non-conference basketball.

Football Side is at 9. Let Notre Dame decide what they want to do. If they join fine, if not fine stay with the catholic schools (I'm assuming they stay with the basketball side).

With the TV contract about to be negotiated after 2012 I think:
Call
10 FSU
11 Clemson
12 Va Tech (if not gobbled up by the SEC)/ NC State if Tech goes SEC
13 BC (who has been the real loser of the last realignment)
Leave 14 open if FSU wants to bring Miami, NC State, or someone else.

FSU wants to be respected as a football school and the split allows us to show them and the rest that we understand its about FOOTBALL not protecting our buddies.

North:
1 BC
2 Cincinnati/ Va Tech
3 Connecticut
4 Pittsburgh
5 Rutgers
6 Syracuse
7 WVU

South:
1 Clemson
2 Florida State
3 Louisville
4 Va Tech or NC State/Cincinnati
5 USF
6 TCU
7 (insert 14th team here)

Basketball now has 8 schools: 1 ND (good/great bball program), 2 Georgetown (likewise), 3 Villanova (best of the bunch IMO), 4 St John's (improving), 5 Marquette (one of the bigger winners of the last round of reallignment), 6 Seton Hall (bleh), 7 Providence (garbage), 8 Depaul (likewise but at least in Chicago).

That is a real solid core to build from. Add some combination of the following schools: Butler
Xavier (makes it easy in the cross conference games as they play Cincy anyways)
George Mason
and other Midmajors that could add real value to the Big East they go as big as they feel is neccessary and would still remain easily the top bball conference. Have a big east vs new conference made for tv games (see if NBC wants the rights to it too).

WMR
09-15-2011, 11:38 PM
I think I read that supposedly Florida, South Carolina and Georgia have a pack to vote against a second team from one of their states (FSU, Clemson or GT) being admitted into the SEC. Those three schools like the advantage of being the only SEC member in their respective state.

You forgot one. UK is part of that same agreement.

WVRed
09-17-2011, 12:06 AM
Here's the next shoe:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980076/big-east-members-syracuse-pitt-talks-atlantic-coast-conference

Would have thought those two would have garnered B10 attention.

Slyder
09-17-2011, 12:41 AM
Here's the next shoe:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980076/big-east-members-syracuse-pitt-talks-atlantic-coast-conference

Would have thought those two would have garnered B10 attention.

I can't see Pitt going to the ACC Without WVU and some assurances about a couple things, maybe I'm just misguided in the belief that short of a big 10 invite Pitt would stick with us. There was a rumor that the ACC was looking toward basketball as its driving force in the next round of expansion, FSU and Va Tech weren't real happy about it.

If that's their driving force I would be on the phone tomorrow. Everyone knows Basketball is Robin in this... except the ACC apparently.

WVRed
09-17-2011, 10:42 AM
I can't see Pitt going to the ACC Without WVU and some assurances about a couple things, maybe I'm just misguided in the belief that short of a big 10 invite Pitt would stick with us. There was a rumor that the ACC was looking toward basketball as its driving force in the next round of expansion, FSU and Va Tech weren't real happy about it.

If that's their driving force I would be on the phone tomorrow. Everyone knows Basketball is Robin in this... except the ACC apparently.

I've never seen Pitt and WVU being joined at the hip. They're two state borderline schools separated by an hour and a half. If it was an in-state rival I could see it. Either way, i'm sure the schools would continue the rivalry even if in different conferences.

If Pitt does leave, I think it puts more pressure for WVU to bolt for another conference. I don't think the schools leaving hurt so much from a football standpoint, but I imagine it would hurt enough to cost the Big East an automatic bid.

WMR
09-17-2011, 12:16 PM
I think you're right about the ACC and Big East merging but, IMO, you would see the ACC remain almost entirely intact and taking only the "upper crust" of the Big East to fill in the holes created by expansion and members poached by one of the other "superconferences."

Sounds like they're trying to do exactly what I said a couple days ago. Eerie.

Reds Freak
09-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Here's my East USA Conference breakdown, based mainly on geography:

EUSA North (10 teams):
UC
UConn
Pitt
WVU
Louisville
Rutgers
Syracuse
Boston College
UVA
Maryland

EUSA South (10 teams):
VA Tech
GA Tech
NC
Duke
Miami
South Florida
NC State
Wake
Clemson
Florida State

EUSA Non-Football (10 teams):
St. Johnís
Marquette
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Seton Hall
DePaul
Notre Dame
Xavier
Butler

kaldaniels
09-17-2011, 01:47 PM
Discussion aside that BB conference in the above post would be awesome.

Slyder
09-17-2011, 04:15 PM
I've never seen Pitt and WVU being joined at the hip. They're two state borderline schools separated by an hour and a half. If it was an in-state rival I could see it. Either way, i'm sure the schools would continue the rivalry even if in different conferences.

If Pitt does leave, I think it puts more pressure for WVU to bolt for another conference. I don't think the schools leaving hurt so much from a football standpoint, but I imagine it would hurt enough to cost the Big East an automatic bid.

To me it always was a question of safety in numbers. The ACC is preceived to be Carolina 1st, 2nd, 3rd Pitt plus WVU at least gives both schools one ally when it comes to discussions of league policy. I have no doubts that WVU would be the red headed step child in the ACC that receives no respect from the blue bloods (UVa, UNC, Duke, Wake, and by proxy NC State) regardless of what WVU does and that is why I've been negative about joining the ACC since the crap started and see it as a distant third.

And its why I was hoping the Big East could be more proactive with the tv contract coming up and maybe accessing some of the chinksk in the armor.

Caveat Emperor
09-17-2011, 05:55 PM
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32035225


Pittsburgh and Syracuse submitted letters of application to the Atlantic Coast Conference and are "likely gone" from the Big East, high ranking ACC and Big East officials told CBSSports.com.

CBSSports.com's Gary Parrish reported Saturday afternoon that the league could vote to accept the two schools as early as Sunday.

Pittsburgh and Syracuse independently submitted letters of application to the ACC, a league source told CBSSports.com.

"There is no scenario where a president applies to a league and isn't admitted," a Big East official told CBSSports.com.

This is about to get kinda crazy -- it's going to be every-man-for-himself in the Big East now with these schools trying to find homes in AQ conferences before everything gets set.

I can't help but think Mike Thomas (UC's AD) saw this coming and that this factored into his bailing for Illinois.

Slyder
09-17-2011, 06:23 PM
Prediction: 4 "major" conferences 16 team.
ACC: (currently at 12)
Minus: FSU, Va Tech, Maryland
Plus: Pitt, UConn, Rutgers, Texas, TT, Kansas (thus fulfilling their basketball desire), K State.

If only the Big East would have had Oliver Luck or a football guy in charge rather than Marinatto.

The Big 4 says no independant will get any special treatment which leads too.

Big Ten: (currently 12)
Plus: Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Missouri (for all parties involved the Big 10 might be the bigger winner)

SEC: (Currently 12)
Plus: Texas A&M, WVU, Florida St., Va Tech

PAC: (currently 12)
Plus: TCU (odd fit but they want in Texas), BYU, Oklahoma, Ok St.

and to prevent lawsuits galore a 5th conference that may have more fluid membership for the teams "left out" like Baylor, Boise, etc.

Caveat Emperor
09-17-2011, 06:30 PM
and to prevent lawsuits galore a 5th conference that may have more fluid membership for the teams "left out" like Baylor, Boise, etc.

The "Leftovers" conference idea would never work due to the cost of travel involved for the various members and the lack of TV interest in showing a "best of the rest" conference -- especially with the dollars each one of these "SuperConference" leagues will command in rights fees.

Really, this entire movement is driven almost entirely by TV money -- the leftover schools are going to have a difficult time surviving, even banded together, as anything resembling major college football players if that funding source is choked off.

Slyder
09-17-2011, 08:14 PM
The "Leftovers" conference idea would never work due to the cost of travel involved for the various members and the lack of TV interest in showing a "best of the rest" conference -- especially with the dollars each one of these "SuperConference" leagues will command in rights fees.

Really, this entire movement is driven almost entirely by TV money -- the leftover schools are going to have a difficult time surviving, even banded together, as anything resembling major college football players if that funding source is choked off.

Good point.
Instead of a 5th "other conference" what about "top team from the other conferences" gets an auto bid if they meet the top 15 or whatever?

KronoRed
09-17-2011, 08:23 PM
The ACC increased their buy out as well, nobody is leaving them for another conference.

I wonder if the sputtering to death big 12 will go after leftover big east football schools to try and sustain themselves.

Slyder
09-17-2011, 08:27 PM
The ACC increased their buy out as well, nobody is leaving them for another conference.

I wonder if the sputtering to death big 12 will go after leftover big east football schools to try and sustain themselves.

There's always lawyers who's job is to negotiate that. The Big 12s I think was like 25 mil and Colorado and Nebraska ended up paying like half that combined (6 and 8 mil I think).

The Big East "big problem" with leaving is you're suppose to give 17 months notice or something like that so "technically" Pitt and Syracuse probably couldn't give the notice in time until 2013 at least if you go by the red letter of the rules.

And the fact WVU wasn't included leaves me with the hope that we are indeed Mr 14 to the SEC and Pitt and Syracuse knew.

WVRed
09-17-2011, 10:04 PM
To me it always was a question of safety in numbers. The ACC is preceived to be Carolina 1st, 2nd, 3rd Pitt plus WVU at least gives both schools one ally when it comes to discussions of league policy. I have no doubts that WVU would be the red headed step child in the ACC that receives no respect from the blue bloods (UVa, UNC, Duke, Wake, and by proxy NC State) regardless of what WVU does and that is why I've been negative about joining the ACC since the crap started and see it as a distant third.

And its why I was hoping the Big East could be more proactive with the tv contract coming up and maybe accessing some of the chinksk in the armor.

I think this is what everybody else outside of the Big East knew in reality. The Big East as a conference has been on life support since Va Tech, Miami, and BC left. They did add some quality basketball schools but for the most part the conference, regardless of commissioner, has been a step behind everybody else.

The ACC saw this coming and upped their exit fees. Any hope the Big East would have had in poaching teams that might be disgruntled with the direction the conference is taking by going pro-basketball (Florida State, Virginia Tech) is likely gone. It could happen that an ACC team leaves, but it will probably be for the SEC.

This is where it starts to get interesting for the Big East. Without Pitt and Syracuse, they are now at 7 teams for FBS, including TCU. You need to have eight teams to be eligible for FBS play, meaning that the Big East will have to add another team or promote from within (Villanova) just to keep the conference afloat for college football. If WVU or even Louisville leaves, its going to become a real mess for the rest of the teams to fight for survival.

KronoRed
09-17-2011, 10:14 PM
There's always lawyers who's job is to negotiate that. The Big 12s I think was like 25 mil and Colorado and Nebraska ended up paying like half that combined (6 and 8 mil I think).


Sure, but the ACC isn't going to let the teams that make them relevant on a national stage in football leave for anything less then the full price.

I think the SEC will go with WVU and stop at 14, I think the ACC does as well with Syracuse and Pitt, 16 teams is a nightmare for scheduling and I don't think any conference is in a hurry to deal with it.

WVRed
09-17-2011, 11:06 PM
Sure, but the ACC isn't going to let the teams that make them relevant on a national stage in football leave for anything less then the full price.

I think the SEC will go with WVU and stop at 14, I think the ACC does as well with Syracuse and Pitt, 16 teams is a nightmare for scheduling and I don't think any conference is in a hurry to deal with it.

This is pretty much to WVU fans and my feelings on it:

WVU is going to land in a top conference, but the main thing is to BE PATIENT. If the SEC doesn't take WVU as the 14th team, I do think the ACC and SEC will expand to 16 and WVU will make the cut in both conferences. It's nothing more than a chess match right now.

In the meantime, continue to play great football, don't do anything stupid(keeping the West F'ing Virginia t-shirts at home on Saturday would be a nice way to start), and everything will be fine. You have an athletic director in Oliver Luck who is probably more competent to lead the Big East than Marianotto, and he will do what is best for West Virginia.

If I am WVU, I would hope for an ACC invite first. I know Slyder outlined the reasons why WVU wouldn't fit in the ACC, but culturally, West Virginia would be the redheaded stepchild of the SEC (why I said leave the t-shirts). For those who don't know, Dana Holgorsen worked under both Mike Leach and Hal Mumme (while at Valdosta). Mumme was the head coach at Kentucky during the 1990's when Tim Couch was there and Holgorsen's offense is a mirror image of the Air Raid offense that Mumme and Leach employed at Kentucky. It worked, until the defenses made adjustments and shut it down.

With the ACC, you have a better chance of reaching a BCS bowl game every year, although it is a weaker conference. In the SEC, you might compete for a BCS once in awhile (South Carolina this year), but you are going to have to make changes coming in if you are going to remain competitive.

Gallen5862
09-17-2011, 11:25 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/slmandel/statuses/115263454054592512


@slmandelStewart Mandel
RT @WhitesideUSAT ACC presidents voted this morning to accept Cuse & Pitt, official announcement in next 2 days, according to ACC official

Slyder
09-17-2011, 11:35 PM
darn blue bloods. If only big east werent even more inept about footballs power.

WVRed
09-17-2011, 11:41 PM
Already being discussed here:

http://redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90906&page=9

Slyder
09-17-2011, 11:56 PM
WVU is going to land in a top conference, but the main thing is to BE PATIENT. If the SEC doesn't take WVU as the 14th team, I do think the ACC and SEC will expand to 16 and WVU will make the cut in both conferences. It's nothing more than a chess match right now.

In the meantime, continue to play great football, don't do anything stupid, and everything will be fine. You have an athletic director in Oliver Luck who is probably more competent to lead the Big East than Marianotto, and he will do what is best for West Virginia.

I agree, In Luck I trust! And I'm of the thought that buying a ticket doesn't buy you the right to do whatever you want.



If I am WVU, I would hope for an ACC invite first. I know Slyder outlined the reasons why WVU wouldn't fit in the ACC, but culturally, West Virginia would be the redheaded stepchild of the SEC (why I said leave the t-shirts). For those who don't know, Dana Holgorsen worked under both Mike Leach and Hal Mumme (while at Valdosta). Mumme was the head coach at Kentucky during the 1990's when Tim Couch was there and Holgorsen's offense is a mirror image of the Air Raid offense that Mumme and Leach employed at Kentucky. It worked, until the defenses made adjustments and shut it down.

Kentucky also didn't get near the caliber guys WVU seems to get out of Florida, PA, Ohio, Maryland either for football. I think joining the SEC would be a windfall for WVU and here's why. They would be able hand pick many of these areas with the SEC tag saying You will play the best competition every week and your family will be within a day trip to come watch you play. Almost the Texas effect. WVU is also a football first school, yes basketball is pretty important but its football first at WVU. I didn't get to watch the game today but what I have seen from Holgorsen thus far has impressed me with the adjustments during the game. I don't think you can label him as just Mumme or Leach's clone because he will find ways to tweak it and make it his.



With the ACC, you have a better chance of reaching a BCS bowl game every year, although it is a weaker conference.

Football is what drives the tv contracts, plus basketball is a lot more fluid not to long ago was an SEC team that won back to back championships. I would rather face the best than be the tallest midget in a conference, which is what the ACC looks like they are going to turn into if the kansas stuff happens.



In the SEC, you might compete for a BCS once in awhile (South Carolina this year), but you are going to have to make changes coming in if you are going to remain competitive.

AD Luck seems to have being doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes to deal with some problems. We may not spend like Alabama or Florida but we with the additional money I am certain will spend more than our fair share to keep up with the rest of the SEC. Including a rumored expansion that would bring Mountaineer Field to 80000 seats.

Caveat Emperor
09-18-2011, 03:08 AM
Hearing Rutgets and UConn are gone from the BE soon as well.

The remaining Big East schools need to offer Texas unconditional membership in a new conference, allowing them to keep revenue from any Longhorn Network they start.

The only chance of survival USF, Cincinnati and Louisville have is getting Texas and a few of the Big 12 schools (Baylor, ISU, Mizzou) to bail right now, before the shuffling gets much further -- because none of those three schools have an exit scenario from the BE that looks pretty.

jredmo2
09-18-2011, 05:48 AM
UC haters, congrats. The program is dead in the water. Hope you're all happy.

WVRed
09-18-2011, 09:16 AM
Hearing Rutgets and UConn are gone from the BE soon as well.

The remaining Big East schools need to offer Texas unconditional membership in a new conference, allowing them to keep revenue from any Longhorn Network they start.

The only chance of survival USF, Cincinnati and Louisville have is getting Texas and a few of the Big 12 schools (Baylor, ISU, Mizzou) to bail right now, before the shuffling gets much further -- because none of those three schools have an exit scenario from the BE that looks pretty.

With the direction college football is heading with the four superconferences, the Big East and Big XII are looking like the odd conferences out.

With that being said, I can't see Texas being involved in a conference other than the Big Four. If the ACC doesn't give them what they want, they may have to settle for the Pac 12. If Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, UConn, and Rutgers all leave, why would Texas join to become the Boise State of that conference?

I see an outside possibility of Louisville joining the ACC, but UC and USF are either stuck in a completely revamped Big East or will join a lesser conference when they fold.

Slyder
09-18-2011, 09:56 AM
With the direction college football is heading with the four superconferences, the Big East and Big XII are looking like the odd conferences out.

With that being said, I can't see Texas being involved in a conference other than the Big Four. If the ACC doesn't give them what they want, they may have to settle for the Pac 12. If Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, UConn, and Rutgers all leave, why would Texas join to become the Boise State of that conference?

I see an outside possibility of Louisville joining the ACC, but UC and USF are either stuck in a completely revamped Big East or will join a lesser conference when they fold.

USF needs to pray the SEC relents on the same state charter and takes FSU as #15 or 16. Thats the only chance they remain relevant in the "big 4". UC is definately screwed unless the Big 12 figures out some way to keep its BcS spot.

Scrap Irony
09-18-2011, 11:25 AM
With the Big East imploding, wouldn't it make sense for the Big XII to grab some of those decent football/ basketball schools in the midwest/ west and create their own brand? A 20-team super-conference with the following universities might turn some heads:

Texas
Baylor
Texas Tech
Houston
TCU
SMU
UTEP
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Tulsa
Iowa State
Kansas St.
Kansas
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Missouri
Colorado
Colorado State
Air Force Academy

That would make Boise State a nice Pac 12 consolation prize (at least in football), as well as Nevada, UNLV, Utah, BYU, New Mexico, et al. That puts them at 20. Add in a 20-team Big Ten (snicker), a 20-team ACC, and a 20-team SEC.

Caveat Emperor
09-18-2011, 11:36 AM
I highly doubt any conference would go to 20 teams -- remember, each team you add splits the TV revenue pie even smaller for the member schools. Adding schools has to make sense for media markets and TV contract negotiations (which is what this is all about).

Slyder
09-18-2011, 11:38 AM
With the Big East imploding, wouldn't it make sense for the Big XII to grab some of those decent football/ basketball schools in the midwest/ west and create their own brand? A 20-team super-conference with the following universities might turn some heads:

Texas
Baylor
Texas Tech
Houston
TCU (Texas will not share Dallas)
SMU
UTEP (have you ever been to El Paso?)
Oklahoma (Pac 16 bound)
Oklahoma State (Goes where Oklahoma tells them)
Tulsa
Iowa State
Kansas St.
Kansas
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Missouri (Big 10 bound)
Colorado (Left already because of Texas why go back?)
Colorado State
Air Force Academy

That would make Boise State a nice Pac 12 consolation prize (at least in football), as well as Nevada, UNLV, Utah, BYU, New Mexico, et al. That puts them at 20. Add in a 20-team Big Ten (snicker), a 20-team ACC, and a 20-team SEC.

Never play a game outside of your geographic area? 20 is way too big for the money it would cost. I think 16 might even be pushing it in terms of schools that would add that kind of revenue.

That conference would be Texas and the XX little dwarfs. TCU and Louisville would be the only possible yearly threats to Texas.

IslandRed
09-18-2011, 12:13 PM
With that being said, I can't see Texas being involved in a conference other than the Big Four. If the ACC doesn't give them what they want, they may have to settle for the Pac 12. If Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, UConn, and Rutgers all leave, why would Texas join to become the Boise State of that conference?

That's how I see it. They're infatuated with the Longhorn Network and for the time being, they're trying to keep it. But the positions of the Pac, Big Ten, SEC and ACC in the upcoming landscape are secure enough that they don't need Texas on Texas' terms. So Texas has to find a way to remain a de facto independent, or whip up a viable fifth conference, or they'll end up accepting a take-it-or-leave-it offer, probably from the Pac. I think the last one is where I'd place the wager, but who knows at this point.

Javy Pornstache
09-18-2011, 03:20 PM
There is still a lot to be played out in this, but something else to keep in mind, is that even before this round of conference realignment got started, there had been a lot of talk about a CUSA split, as there's a real disconnect in that league right now. I could completely see the Big East leftovers (namely former CUSA teams UL, UC and USF) rejoining the eastern branch of CUSA to form a new alliance, and the western branch of CUSA joining up with the remainders of the Big 12.

You'd basically have a reformed C-USA (with a new name, I'm sure) with Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, Memphis, Tulane, Southern Miss, UAB, East Carolina, Central Florida and maybe Marshall. Then the other league would be something like Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, joining up with Houston, Rice, UTEP, SMU, Tulsa and maybe TCU hooking up there with the Big East fiasco that's unfolding. This is assuming the larger conference breaks happen, with UConn, WVU and Rutgers leaving the Big East (extremely likely), and Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Missouri leaving the Big 12 (not a 100% lock, but pretty likely to wind up the end game in this).

It would form a couple decent conferences, but I'm not sure either would have AQ status in this new coalition that seems to be forming. Something else to keep in mind is the WAC also seems like it could be in trouble right now, I could see the WAC and MWC merging in a way (of course, the whole reason the MWC exists today is because it was split off from a 16-team WAC that seemed to be about a decade ahead of its time). Some of the Big 12/western CUSA teams could have a hand in this MWC, it's just hard to say because there is much left to decided, like whether the leagues hold at 14 as it seems, or they'll push to 16, as seems to be the ultimate goal of all of the major leagues, other than maybe the Big Ten.

Slyder
09-18-2011, 03:49 PM
Anyone really feel this is going to be any better than the ACC is already???

North:
1 Boston College
2 Connecticut
3 Maryland
4 Pittsburgh
5 Rutgers
6 Syracuse
7 Va Tech
8 Virginia

South:
1 Duke
2 Florida State
3 Georgia Tech
4 Miami
5 North Carolina
6 NC State
7 Wake
8 Clemson

The ACC added more chaff that tv sets don't care about and bowls don't want. Congrats you just shrunk your per piece share!!!!

paintmered
09-18-2011, 04:10 PM
The Big East is dead. Reports are that WVU has submitted their paperwork to the SEC, confirming what their fans have hoped for and the rest of us suspected. I suspect UConn and Rutgers wil soon round out the ACC at 16.

As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.

KronoRed
09-18-2011, 04:35 PM
Never play a game outside of your geographic area? 20 is way too big for the money it would cost. I think 16 might even be pushing it in terms of schools that would add that kind of revenue.


I think the fact that everyone with a name is talking 14 and only "sources" are talking 16 is a real sign that nobody wants to go 16 unless somebody else does it first, it'll be a scheduling nightmare.

KronoRed
09-18-2011, 04:35 PM
As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.

Exactly, Texas may be able to keep the big12 afloat on name only if they can get big east left overs and maybe BYU to join them, independence won't work anymore in a huge conference landscape, nobody will play them when everyone is going to have 9 or 10 conference games to deal with.

marcshoe
09-18-2011, 04:36 PM
That will make Saturday's LSU @ WVU interesting, particularly with ESPN's Gameday already announcing they're setting up in Morgantown.

Does this mean that I'm going to have to stop calling the SEC a conference of crooks?

IslandRed
09-18-2011, 04:51 PM
Per ESPN and others, it looks like the Pac is about to be the Pac-16, bringing in Texas and Texas Tech. The Longhorn Network will survive, but on terms the conference can live with.

As for the ACC, I read somewhere -- and I have no idea if this is all true -- that the ACC thinks the ESPN/ABC/Fox etc. network revenue stream is close to maxed out. So instead of basing everything on increasing those contracts, their first priority was to land the knockout punch on the Big East, to make sure the ACC is the one getting the seat at the big table for whatever comes next. A little short-term pain for the sake of long-term gain. They're also looking at an equivalent of the Big Ten Network, which is a per-subscriber revenue model, and they just added 45 million people to the ACC home-state footprint.

Javy Pornstache
09-18-2011, 05:54 PM
If the Pac-12 proceeds with just OK and OSU, and the SEC only adds Missouri or West Virginia, and the ACC stops where they are, then there is a viable conference opportunity for the leftovers of the Big East and the Big 12. The remaining Big East teams would formally leave to join the Big 12, add a few of the most attractive teams not in, and the Big East would continue in name as a non-football league, just as it was when it very first started, and how many of the schools have wanted it to be for a while. You'd have a league something like this:

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
Missouri/West Virginia (whichever one is not SEC #14)
Cincinnati
Louisville
South Florida
TCU
with the potential addition of BYU, Houston, ECU, UCF, and maybe Boise State, or possibly Memphis or SMU, to give this league 14 themselves, and likely retaining AQ status.

However, if Texas and Texas Tech go to the Pac as well, and the ACC adds two more, this would likely kill the viability of the above scenario.

nmculbreth
09-18-2011, 09:00 PM
The Big East is dead. Reports are that WVU has submitted their paperwork to the SEC, confirming what their fans have hoped for and the rest of us suspected. I suspect UConn and Rutgers wil soon round out the ACC at 16.

As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.

This is a very sad day for UC football because it's hard to imagine any scenario where they're going to end up in a BCS level conference going forward. The Big East will likely live on as a non-football conference, probably adding a couple of schools like Xavier and UD, but it's hard to imagine it being able to survive as a football conference - let alone one that merits a BCS automatic-qualifier.

Assuming that the PAC-whatever adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and WVU, Rutgers and UConn end up in the SEC / ACC, UC is pretty much screwed going forward. The best case scenario would be to merge what's left of the Big XII and Big East and add a couple up-and-coming non-BCS schools.

West:
Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston and TCU

East:
UC, Louisville, USF, UCF, Memphis and Missouri (assuming they don't land elsewhere)

I'm not sure that the quality of football would be significantly worse than the current Big East, but the lack of marque programs and large markets likely means that an automatic BCS automatic-qualifier would be out of the question. The travel situation wouldn't be great, though I'm not sure it's much worse than the pre-Big East raid Conference USA was. Really the only silver lining is that the basketball would still be pretty good.

paintmered
09-18-2011, 09:06 PM
One thing lost in all of this is the inevitable split between the football Big East programs from the non-football, Catholic Big East programs. This is finally the chance for the Big East to become a truly Catholic basketball conference.

You've got:

St. John's
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Providence
Marquette
Villanova
DePaul
Notre Dame (although their future in the Big East is in doubt)

I'd think they'd look to grab a few teams from the A-10 that fit their mold. Xavier and Dayton are the class of that conference and would likely be the first two. Then you have some combination of: St. Joe's (if Villanova allows for it), Fordham, SLU, La Salle, Duquesne and St. Bonny. That's a darn good basketball conference.

WVRed
09-18-2011, 09:46 PM
I think the fact that everyone with a name is talking 14 and only "sources" are talking 16 is a real sign that nobody wants to go 16 unless somebody else does it first, it'll be a scheduling nightmare.

I think the Pac-Whatever just did it by going to 16. That's why I've been saying to WVU fans to be patient. They will end up in a conference, just have to wait for the right shoe to drop. I believe the SEC, ACC, and B10 will go to 16, but it won't happen overnight.


That will make Saturday's LSU @ WVU interesting, particularly with ESPN's Gameday already announcing they're setting up in Morgantown.

Does this mean that I'm going to have to stop calling the SEC a conference of crooks?

I kinda alluded to it earlier in this thread, but I am interested to see how WVU fits culturally in the SEC.

Kentucky (basketball is their pageantry) and the Mississippi schools are kind of the exception to this, but the bluebloods of the SEC (Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU), college gameday is a pageantry of sorts. You will see everything from guys dressed in shirts and ties to girls dressed in sun dresses and hats. This is why I LOVE the Texas A&M move because there is a lot of tradition in College Station.

The SEC isn't a cheese and wine league (that's the ACC), but there is a certain level of class when it comes to the member schools. This is why I am glad Oliver Luck is the AD coming in instead of Ed Pastilong because Luck has made a serious effort in cleaning up WVU's image. If WVU comes in acting like a bunch of hillbillies with the t-shirts mentioned above, they will quickly become the redheaded stepchild of the SEC, a title that probably goes with Mississippi State right now.

KronoRed
09-18-2011, 10:03 PM
I think the Pac-Whatever just did it by going to 16.

But they haven't yet, if the Pac12 can get Texas and Oklahoma without the little sisters of the poor they will, besides the Arizona's, Colorado and Utah will throw a fit if they are going to be put in a defacto big 8 cut off from California except for 1 game every 2 years.

WVRed
09-18-2011, 10:19 PM
But they haven't yet, if the Pac12 can get Texas and Oklahoma without the little sisters of the poor they will, besides the Arizona's, Colorado and Utah will throw a fit if they are going to be put in a defacto big 8 cut off from California except for 1 game every 2 years.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/26037/report-pac-16-with-texas-is-close

Don't know about Texas, but I have a feeling the Oklahoma legislature will fight to make sure Okie Junior goes with Oklahoma. I remember reading that those two are joined at the hip.

KronoRed
09-18-2011, 10:28 PM
Again, "unnamed source" from could probably find an article from last year with the same thing, until a someone with a name says it I'll remain a skeptic that the whole thing wont fall in again.

Caveat Emperor
09-18-2011, 11:06 PM
As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.

I don't see a happy ending to this story for UC, USF and Louisville.

UC's best option in all of this might be to try and carve out a new regional conference for itself out of BE / MAC / B12 / C-USA programs and then immediately file a lawsuit against the BCS or lobby for government action to force some sort of inclusion.

The reality of UC / Louisville / USF situation is this -- when you look at the level of competition that will exist in the new "Super 4" conferences, there is absolutely no combination of schools that will get a new conference a seat at the BCS table. Conferences need "tentpole" programs, and all the B12/BE merger scenarios lack anything resembling that. Further, these franken-conference suggestions lack any sex appeal for television (especially considering how much money will be committed to the Super 4 deals).

The best move would be to form a conference that's competitive, and minimizes travel costs -- because the simple truth is that this process will leave the outsiders as functionally D1AA programs. The only way to solve it will be legal or governmental action.

Thus, my suggested conference -- the MAC12:

- Cincinnati
- Louisville
- Kansas
- Iowa State
- Kansas State
- Mizzou
- Memphis
- Marshall
- Northern Illinois
- Toledo
- Ohio University
- Bowling Green

paintmered
09-18-2011, 11:21 PM
I don't see a happy ending to this story for UC, USF and Louisville.

UC's best option in all of this might be to try and carve out a new regional conference for itself out of BE / MAC / B12 / C-USA programs and then immediately file a lawsuit against the BCS or lobby for government action to force some sort of inclusion.

The reality of UC / Louisville / USF situation is this -- when you look at the level of competition that will exist in the new "Super 4" conferences, there is absolutely no combination of schools that will get a new conference a seat at the BCS table. Conferences need "tentpole" programs, and all the B12/BE merger scenarios lack anything resembling that. Further, these franken-conference suggestions lack any sex appeal for television (especially considering how much money will be committed to the Super 4 deals).

The best move would be to form a conference that's competitive, and minimizes travel costs -- because the simple truth is that this process will leave the outsiders as functionally D1AA programs. The only way to solve it will be legal or governmental action.

Thus, my suggested conference -- the MAC12:

- Cincinnati
- Louisville
- Kansas
- Iowa State
- Kansas State
- Mizzou
- Memphis
- Marshall
- Northern Illinois
- Toledo
- Ohio University
- Bowling Green

I give you points for creativity but this won't happen if only due to the pride of all the schools above Memphis in your list.

Caveat Emperor
09-18-2011, 11:25 PM
I give you points for creativity but this won't happen if only due to the pride of all the schools above Memphis in your list.

Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.

paintmered
09-18-2011, 11:34 PM
Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.

I only had a problem with the MAC schools in your list. More likely is a combination of the castoffs plus schools like Houston, Memphis (even though their football program is a total mess), UCF, etc. to round out the conference. Shoot, they might even get BYU and Boise on board (travel would be a mess, as you say). At least it would put butts in the seats to see viable matchups and could fetch a decent media contract. Think C-USA (pre-2003) plus Big 8. Such a conference is far from ideal but there aren't many alternatives for schools that want to stay at the BCS table.

The schools currently in BCS conferences will not agree to an arrangement with MAC schools. That's where the pride comes in. There's better options in much larger markets. And, rightly or wrongly, they think they're bigger than that, much like how the SEC views the Big East.


Having said all this, I expect there to be more movement that renders all this invalid in the next 24 hours.

Caveat Emperor
09-18-2011, 11:46 PM
I only had a problem with the MAC schools in your list. More likely is a combination of the castoffs plus schools like Houston, Memphis (even though their football program is a total mess), UCF, etc. to round out the conference. Shoot, they might even get BYU and Boise on board (travel would be a mess, as you say). At least it would put butts in the seats to see viable matchups and could fetch a decent media contract. Think C-USA (pre-2003) plus Big 8.

The schools currently in BCS conferences will not agree to an arrangement with MAC schools. That's where the pride comes in. There's better options in much larger markets. And, rightly or wrongly, they think they're bigger than that, much like how the SEC views the Big East.

I'm approaching this issue with the following ideas as givens:

1. There is no combination of unaffiliated schools (schools not in or linked-to the "Super 4" conferences) that can be put together that will be worthy of a seat at the BCS table.

2. Any "best of the rest" conference will be forced to accept a greatly reduced television package (possibly regional-coverage only, via FSN-type networks) due to increased rights fees for showing "Super 4" programming.

3. Any "best of the rest" conference will have little to no shot of forming their own cable network to monetize non-revenue sports and/or otherwise non-premium programming.

Pride will cause a lot of kicking, screaming and desk-overturning for the first 15 minutes of all of this. Then, I assume, reality will set in. A nation-spanning conference will present massive increases in travel costs (especially for non-revenue sports) with relatively little upside (see Given #1 -- no combination of schools, even Boise State and TCU, is good enough to be considered an "equal" with the Super 4).

Further, by regionalizing, you stand a better shot of selling TV packages since the potential for fan-overlap is so much better (odds of a Kansus alum in Northern Illinois' TV market is much greater than the odds of a Boise State alum there).

I get that this a bitter pill to swallow -- as a UC football fan, I'm beyond not-happy with all this -- but there's no sense in fighting City Hall on this one. The only way this game will be won is in Congress or a in Courtroom, and if that happens it'll be a win for EVERYONE, not just people who are in a conference with the best leftover teams.

IslandRed
09-18-2011, 11:58 PM
You're right, CE. I know there are some schools that have held their tongue (and their fire) under the current arrangement, but as soon as the new super-conferences move to cut everyone else out of the deal, the lawsuits will fly. Antitrust, breach of contract, the NCAA for not stepping in and doing anything, whatever has a chance to stick.

nmculbreth
09-19-2011, 10:12 AM
Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.

While the schools you've mentioned are in very bad positions, I just can't envision a scenario they'd be looking to join up with the likes of Ohio University, Toledo or Bowling Green. What do those schools bring to the table? None have been particularly impressive in football or basketball, don't have big alumni bases and don't add to the league's media / recruiting profile. They may be close in proximity to UC and UL, but neither school expressed any interest in being apart of the MAC before they were added to the Big East.

IMHO a reconstituted pre-Big East CUSA with the BIG XII remnants is a far better bet.

Danny Serafini
09-19-2011, 11:32 AM
My guess is that it's not quite as hopeless for the leftovers as some may think. What I believe you'll have leftover (Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Baylor, TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, S. Florida and whichever of Missouri/West Virginia doesn't get the SEC slot) is clearly the #5 conference, but still a step up from the Mountain West and the rest. More importantly, the Big 4 would toss it a bone and give it a BCS slot. It's worth it in order to keep the Baylors of the world from launching a flurry of lawsuits and stalling the realignment in court for years. It's still going to open up additional BCS slots for Big 4 teams. The Big 12 and Big East typically would combine for three BCS bids a year. This Big 12/Big East mashup would get one, which gives two additional spots to the Big 4 conferences. It's simply in their best interests to grease the squeaky Baylor wheel and give that conference a bid so that they can grab the two extra bids for themselves.

bucksfan2
09-19-2011, 12:50 PM
My guess is that it's not quite as hopeless for the leftovers as some may think. What I believe you'll have leftover (Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Baylor, TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, S. Florida and whichever of Missouri/West Virginia doesn't get the SEC slot) is clearly the #5 conference, but still a step up from the Mountain West and the rest. More importantly, the Big 4 would toss it a bone and give it a BCS slot. It's worth it in order to keep the Baylors of the world from launching a flurry of lawsuits and stalling the realignment in court for years. It's still going to open up additional BCS slots for Big 4 teams. The Big 12 and Big East typically would combine for three BCS bids a year. This Big 12/Big East mashup would get one, which gives two additional spots to the Big 4 conferences. It's simply in their best interests to grease the squeaky Baylor wheel and give that conference a bid so that they can grab the two extra bids for themselves.

Geographically this kinda makes sense, more sense than TCU in the Big East. The problem I see with this conference is that they have little to no leverage to stay a part of the BCS. When the BCS originally formed the Big East had Miami as well as Virginia Tech. If this conference forms with those teams where is the leverage? What program stands out as a legit program? What program screams big time college football can't do without? The teams look a lot like the Mountain West a few years ago with TCU, Utah, and BYU were all nationally relevant.

A big winner of all this may be Xavier. I could see the Big East basketball splitting off and poaching Xavier and maybe Dayton from the A10.

Captain13
09-19-2011, 12:55 PM
My guess is that it's not quite as hopeless for the leftovers as some may think. What I believe you'll have leftover (Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Baylor, TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, S. Florida and whichever of Missouri/West Virginia doesn't get the SEC slot) is clearly the #5 conference, but still a step up from the Mountain West and the rest. More importantly, the Big 4 would toss it a bone and give it a BCS slot. It's worth it in order to keep the Baylors of the world from launching a flurry of lawsuits and stalling the realignment in court for years. It's still going to open up additional BCS slots for Big 4 teams. The Big 12 and Big East typically would combine for three BCS bids a year. This Big 12/Big East mashup would get one, which gives two additional spots to the Big 4 conferences. It's simply in their best interests to grease the squeaky Baylor wheel and give that conference a bid so that they can grab the two extra bids for themselves.

I agree, also as long as the current BCS contract is under existance any conference that calls itself either the Big East or the Big 12 gets an automatic bid. I see the Big 12/East the same way you do, but with Houston and UCF added also.

Caveat Emperor
09-19-2011, 01:07 PM
My guess is that it's not quite as hopeless for the leftovers as some may think. What I believe you'll have leftover (Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Baylor, TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, S. Florida and whichever of Missouri/West Virginia doesn't get the SEC slot) is clearly the #5 conference, but still a step up from the Mountain West and the rest. More importantly, the Big 4 would toss it a bone and give it a BCS slot. It's worth it in order to keep the Baylors of the world from launching a flurry of lawsuits and stalling the realignment in court for years. It's still going to open up additional BCS slots for Big 4 teams. The Big 12 and Big East typically would combine for three BCS bids a year. This Big 12/Big East mashup would get one, which gives two additional spots to the Big 4 conferences. It's simply in their best interests to grease the squeaky Baylor wheel and give that conference a bid so that they can grab the two extra bids for themselves.

With the "Super 4" soaking up all the TV money and lucrative bowl tie-ins, I don't see how a coast-to-coast Franken-conference makes sense financially, especially for non-revenue sports.

LoganBuck
09-19-2011, 01:17 PM
With the "Super 4" soaking up all the TV money and lucrative bowl tie-ins, I don't see how a coast-to-coast Franken-conference makes sense financially, especially for non-revenue sports.

Gotta like the UC to Baylor road trip for women lacrosse.

Caveat Emperor
09-19-2011, 01:30 PM
Gotta like the UC to Baylor road trip for women lacrosse.

How about the USF / Boise State trip under some of these speculative fictions -- 5 hours on an airplane for the women's volleyball team for a Wednesday night match?

The far better move for UC and Louisville is to regionalize, minimize travel costs, and sue to break up access to the BCS.

Captain13
09-19-2011, 03:13 PM
With the "Super 4" soaking up all the TV money and lucrative bowl tie-ins, I don't see how a coast-to-coast Franken-conference makes sense financially, especially for non-revenue sports.

The trick is to stay in big cities...NOT BOISE. Once you are on a plane, it isn't that much different to go to Houston or Orlando than to Memphis. It is as easy for Louisville or UC to go to TCU (fly to DFW and bus to Ft. Worth) as it is to go to Morgantown (fly to Pittsburgh and bus through the mountains).

WMR
09-19-2011, 03:26 PM
Rebirth of the Metro?

Caveat Emperor
09-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Rebirth of the Metro?

The sad thing about all this from UC's perspective is this: as long as the Big East conference is still breathing (even if it is dead-man-walking), UC would still owe $5 million as it's exit fee if it wanted to leave and form a new Metro Conference.

That's $5 million UC's athletic department doesn't have and isn't going to spend. Wherever the Big East goes, UC goes.

wolfboy
09-19-2011, 08:34 PM
It's looking grim for UC and others.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576581042205599216.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

Caveat Emperor
09-20-2011, 12:34 AM
Word swirling around twitterverse, apparently started by a source at BearcatLair, that WVU's inquiries have been rejected by the SEC.

cincrazy
09-20-2011, 12:35 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned here yet, but I read on the ESPN bottom line that ND prefers to stay independent, but if it can't, it will reach out to the ACC before the Big 10. I find that absolutely mind numbing.

Caveat Emperor
09-20-2011, 12:52 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned here yet, but I read on the ESPN bottom line that ND prefers to stay independent, but if it can't, it will reach out to the ACC before the Big 10. I find that absolutely mind numbing.

The power-play move for Notre Dame right now would be to swoop in and "save" the Big East by agreeing to join the football side with concessions regarding it's TV deal w/ NBC (allowing all ND home games to be on NBC).

Slyder
09-20-2011, 12:55 AM
Word swirling around twitterverse, apparently started by a source at BearcatLair, that WVU's inquiries have been rejected by the SEC.

Rumors I heard was "not now". SEC wants to wait for Texas A&M to get in before they name 14.

KronoRed
09-20-2011, 05:54 AM
Word swirling around twitterverse, apparently started by a source at BearcatLair, that WVU's inquiries have been rejected by the SEC.

Considering the source, I don't buy it.

The SEC is moving glacially slow on this, I think it's more likely they got the same speech that A&M did at first, ask out of your conference first, blah blah.

paintmered
09-20-2011, 08:18 AM
Considering the source, I don't buy it.

The SEC is moving glacially slow on this, I think it's more likely they got the same speech that A&M did at first, ask out of your conference first, blah blah.

BearcatLair has a pretty good reputation (Mike Shanahan debacle aside) and they're not the only ones to come out with this. But I'm inclined to agree with you: less of a total rejection and more of a "try again in a few days".

WVRed
09-20-2011, 08:41 AM
Looks like the MWC is trying to convince TCU to stay. They might be better off doing so now.

dabvu2498
09-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Here's an interesting way of looking at college football realignment.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

IslandRed
09-20-2011, 12:03 PM
That's an interesting attempt at quantifying things, and I usually like Nate Silver's work. But some of the actual results strain credulity, particularly after it gets past the SEC and Big Ten.

Chip R
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
In the midst of all this realingment, I found an article in the Atlantic Monthly about how the writer feels that the NCAA should disband since it is no longer serving its purpose due to the scandals. It's a long read so be prepared.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/

wolfboy
09-20-2011, 04:38 PM
In the midst of all this realingment, I found an article in the Atlantic Monthly about how the writer feels that the NCAA should disband since it is no longer serving its purpose due to the scandals. It's a long read so be prepared.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/

I saw that last week. Great read.

Reds Freak
09-20-2011, 04:52 PM
In the midst of all this realingment, I found an article in the Atlantic Monthly about how the writer feels that the NCAA should disband since it is no longer serving its purpose due to the scandals. It's a long read so be prepared.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/

Very interesting read, but I don't agree. 90% of the news is 10% of the problems. When we say "college athletics" most people think college football and men's college basketball. You have to remember college athletics includes the softball team, the cross country team, the tennis team, etc. I still think college athletics are extremely beneficial as an educational experience for the athletes athletes and a community experience for the universities. What about the great things going on in college sports? When do we ever hear about those?

Caveat Emperor
09-20-2011, 05:37 PM
Very interesting read, but I don't agree. 90% of the news is 10% of the problems. When we say "college athletics" most people think college football and men's college basketball. You have to remember college athletics includes the softball team, the cross country team, the tennis team, etc. I still think college athletics are extremely beneficial as an educational experience for the athletes athletes and a community experience for the universities. What about the great things going on in college sports? When do we ever hear about those?

Honestly? Because other than the parents of those people involved, no one cares. If people cared, they'd be monetized and become part of the problem.

jojo
09-20-2011, 06:45 PM
Word swirling around twitterverse, apparently started by a source at BearcatLair, that WVU's inquiries have been rejected by the SEC.

I've heard that WVU has been turned own by both the SEC and the ACC. Also Mizzou has an offer to the SEC.

KronoRed
09-20-2011, 08:39 PM
Seems to me, Missouri is waiting and hoping for a Big10 invite, failing that they can support Oklahoma in keeping the big12 together or go to the SEC.

WVU is the backup plan for the SEC.

Slyder
09-20-2011, 09:23 PM
I've heard that WVU has been turned own by both the SEC and the ACC. Also Mizzou has an offer to the SEC.

SEC came out and said no offer has been given to anyone but Texas A&M. They did not say "No" they said "Not now" just like they did back in August with A&M. At this point I don't care what the blue bloods from the east say they're garbage to me and regardless of how this goes I don't want another thing to do with that bunch of filth (Not Pitt, Not Maryland, Not Cuse, not ANY of them). If WVU is forced to join because its the only option I might have to turn to some combination of Marshall, ECU, USF, Louisville regional games for my football fix because I will not subject myself to the North Carolina Mafia garbage football style.

Missouri tried to float out there they had an invite in hopes that it would stir the big 10 (which is where they want to go). So far hasn't worked.

marcshoe
09-20-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm starting to get the idea that there's less than meets the eye to most of the invites/applications/rejections. I think the next step may be for the SEC to add one team (Missouri maybe, maybe not) and then more dominoes will fall. Not the time for WVU to panic yet.

Honestly, even if they do end up in some Frankenstein's conference made from the leftovers, it's not the end of the world. Sometimes (and this may be a good reminder) it's good to remember that the main focus of a school should be academics. Still looking at doctoral programs now, and the three schools I'm focusing on are WVU and two SEC schools. Gotta say I'm not all that focused on how the football stuff falls together at the moment. Interested, but not focused.

WVRed
09-20-2011, 09:46 PM
SEC came out and said no offer has been given to anyone but Texas A&M. They did not say "No" they said "Not now" just like they did back in August with A&M. At this point I don't care what the blue bloods from the east say they're garbage to me and regardless of how this goes I don't want another thing to do with that bunch of filth (Not Pitt, Not Maryland, Not Cuse, not ANY of them). If WVU is forced to join because its the only option I might have to turn to some combination of Marshall, ECU, USF, Louisville regional games for my football fix because I will not subject myself to the North Carolina Mafia garbage football style.

Missouri tried to float out there they had an invite in hopes that it would stir the big 10 (which is where they want to go). So far hasn't worked.

This.

If Missouri ends up being no 14, then I think WVU will be 15 or 16 once the conference expands again. I see the SEC going to 16 teams and WVU will be a part of it because there really won't be many other options.

F$U, Georgia Tech, and Clemson face enormous buyouts and are already in states that have a SEC school. Louisville doesn't have the buyout but UK will fight it and if rumors are true, UK is part of the agreement with South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida to keep schools from their own states out of the conference.

Slyder
09-20-2011, 09:51 PM
I'm starting to get the idea that there's less than meets the eye to most of the invites/applications/rejections. I think the next step may be for the SEC to add one team (Missouri maybe, maybe not) and then more dominoes will fall. Not the time for WVU to panic yet.

Honestly, even if they do end up in some Frankenstein's conference made from the leftovers, it's not the end of the world. Sometimes (and this may be a good reminder) it's good to remember that the main focus of a school should be academics. Still looking at doctoral programs now, and the three schools I'm focusing on are WVU and two SEC schools. Gotta say I'm not all that focused on how the football stuff falls together at the moment. Interested, but not focused.

The Academic side got thrown in the gutter a LONG time ago.Its a convenient excuse for people.

WVRed
09-20-2011, 09:52 PM
Something that does concern me with Missouri to the SEC and the only person I know who could possibly weigh in would be MikeTheirry or any other Cardinal fan on here:

The biggest draw for the SEC is the media market in St Louis and Kansas City, but from some of what I've read, pro sports (Cardinals, Rams, Blues, Chiefs) dominate in Missouri. With WVU you wouldn't have to worry about fan support as WVU would pack Mountaineer Field (especially a SEC team). I just wonder how well it would work in Columbia.

Slyder
09-20-2011, 10:14 PM
Something that does concern me with Missouri to the SEC and the only person I know who could possibly weigh in would be MikeTheirry or any other Cardinal fan on here:

The biggest draw for the SEC is the media market in St Louis and Kansas City, but from some of what I've read, pro sports (Cardinals, Rams, Blues, Chiefs) dominate in Missouri. With WVU you wouldn't have to worry about fan support as WVU would pack Mountaineer Field (especially a SEC team). I just wonder how well it would work in Columbia.

I was just talking with a friend and Missouri seems to go against about EVERYTHING the SEC has built. 1) SEC brand is what it puts on the field (when was the last time Missouri was relevant in football longer than a blink of the eye). 2) SEC doesn't really have markets. 3) Its more about the experience and the tradition AT the game rather than just watching it on tv.

WMR
09-20-2011, 10:22 PM
Missouri - yes please.

WVU - No thanks.

JMHO.

KronoRed
09-20-2011, 10:29 PM
Something that does concern me with Missouri to the SEC and the only person I know who could possibly weigh in would be MikeTheirry or any other Cardinal fan on here:

The biggest draw for the SEC is the media market in St Louis and Kansas City, but from some of what I've read, pro sports (Cardinals, Rams, Blues, Chiefs) dominate in Missouri. With WVU you wouldn't have to worry about fan support as WVU would pack Mountaineer Field (especially a SEC team). I just wonder how well it would work in Columbia.

Nobody in Missouri outside of Columbia really cares the sports teams, they are a bad fit.

Also, another Tiger mascot? come on :D

texasdave
09-20-2011, 11:44 PM
The league's presidents and chancellors voted late Tuesday night to reaffirm their decision to stay at a dozen members. Commissioner Larry Scott says "after careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference."

PAC staying at 12 teams. For now.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/20/pac12.no.expansion.ap/index.html#ixzz1YYTaKQcU

Slyder
09-20-2011, 11:56 PM
PAC staying at 12 teams. For now.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/20/pac12.no.expansion.ap/index.html#ixzz1YYTaKQcU

I'm guessing there is still that little sticking point of what exactly the Longhorn Network will be. Can't say I'm not a bit :lol: at Texas. At least one of the driving forces is getting egg all over them... for now.

Slyder
09-20-2011, 11:56 PM
Missouri - yes please.

WVU - No thanks.

JMHO.

Why?

texasdave
09-21-2011, 12:09 AM
I'm guessing there is still that little sticking point of what exactly the Longhorn Network will be. Can't say I'm not a bit :lol: at Texas. At least one of the driving forces is getting egg all over them... for now.

I am not a Longhorn fan. Or really much of a college football fan. Just thought people in here would like to see that. But I have a hunch that the University of Texas will do just fine, no matter how things eventually shake out.

WMR
09-21-2011, 12:11 AM
Why?

I don't want to offend anyone reading this thread, but it's the fan base and, more specifically, the opposing fan base experience in Morgantown.

It would be a great rivalry with UK, but I wouldn't want to travel there for a game because of how I would be treated.

The SEC experience isn't really like that at all from my experiences.

Slyder
09-21-2011, 12:18 AM
I don't want to offend anyone reading this thread, but it's the fan base and, more specifically, the opposing fan base experience in Morgantown.

It would be a great rivalry with UK, but I wouldn't want to travel there for a game because of how I would be treated.

The SEC experience isn't really like that at all from my experiences.

Give Ollie time, he's done a lot already but it takes time.

WMR
09-21-2011, 12:20 AM
Give Ollie time, he's done a lot already but it takes time.

Just want to add I have a lot of respect for the WVA athletic programs. Basketball and football are both top notch. If the SEC goes to 14 without WVA then WVA/Ollie has time to make themselves more attractive b/c I believe we will wait awhile before going to 16. (JMO on that could be wrong.)

It's all fun to speculate on but who knows really what will happen in the end...

Reds Freak
09-21-2011, 01:07 AM
Honestly? Because other than the parents of those people involved, no one cares. If people cared, they'd be monetized and become part of the problem.

You don't think the student-athletes of the non-revenue don't care? The purpose of college athletics is to be an extension of the classroom and be a laboratory of learning leadership skills, teamwork, work ethic, communication, dealing with adversity, etc. Just because hundreds of thousands of people don't tune in to watch non-revenue sports doesn't mean they don't matter.

Caveat Emperor
09-21-2011, 01:54 AM
You don't think the student-athletes of the non-revenue don't care? The purpose of college athletics is to be an extension of the classroom and be a laboratory of learning leadership skills, teamwork, work ethic, communication, dealing with adversity, etc. Just because hundreds of thousands of people don't tune in to watch non-revenue sports doesn't mean they don't matter.

You asked why no one pays attention to the good stories about non-revenue sports -- and the answer remains that no one cares. If no one cares, no news gets published. I'm sure the people competing care, but you don't write a newspaper story just so the subject can read it.

Caveat Emperor
09-21-2011, 02:13 AM
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32135950


Before the sudden news broke last weekend that Pittsburgh and Syracuse were leaving for the Atlantic Coast Conference, the Big East was in the final stages of acquiring Navy as a football-only member.

No official invitation was extended by the league, but both parties had extensive discussions about Navy joining the league in football only and it very well could have happened in the next couple of weeks, college football industry sources told CBSSports.com.

I'm a UC fan, and even I'll admit that a conference that needs to add service academies to keep numbers up doesn't deserve AQ status.

If this is the best the Big East can do, UC is screwed if they don't jump ship immediately.

kaldaniels
09-21-2011, 06:25 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/09/21/pac.12.realignment/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2

No more teams coming to the PAC 10 for the time being.

WVRed
09-21-2011, 06:27 AM
I don't want to offend anyone reading this thread, but it's the fan base and, more specifically, the opposing fan base experience in Morgantown.

It would be a great rivalry with UK, but I wouldn't want to travel there for a game because of how I would be treated.

The SEC experience isn't really like that at all from my experiences.

That's basically how I feel, and thats why I've said culturally WVU is going to have to compromise coming into any new conference. Oliver Luck knows that and I think is trying to work through it.

Fan treatment has improved though from the Pitt game a couple years ago. I was reading on Marshall's message board about fan treatment for those who went to the game this year and outside of a few chants (What's the word? blank the Herd!), the fans were pretty well behaved. They said compared to Ohio State, where fans spit on them, WVU was better.

The SEC Big East Invitational will be interesting this year because WVU is making the trip to Starkville to face the worst fans in the SEC (Mississippi State). I'd be interested to hear any stories from WVU fans who make that trip.

kaldaniels
09-21-2011, 06:33 AM
That's basically how I feel, and thats why I've said culturally WVU is going to have to compromise coming into any new conference. Oliver Luck knows that and I think is trying to work through it.

Fan treatment has improved though from the Pitt game a couple years ago. I was reading on Marshall's message board about fan treatment for those who went to the game this year and outside of a few chants (What's the word? blank the Herd!), the fans were pretty well behaved. They said compared to Ohio State, where fans spit on them, WVU was better.

The SEC Big East Invitational will be interesting this year because WVU is making the trip to Starkville to face the worst fans in the SEC (Mississippi State). I'd be interested to hear any stories from WVU fans who make that trip.

I'd be interested to know if it is true that overall OSU fans treat opponents worse than WVU fans, or are we talking isolated incidents.

hebroncougar
09-21-2011, 08:44 AM
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32135950



I'm a UC fan, and even I'll admit that a conference that needs to add service academies to keep numbers up doesn't deserve AQ status.

If this is the best the Big East can do, UC is screwed if they don't jump ship immediately.

To where? Does anyone want them? I think UC and Louisville are going to be left standing w/o a chair. It'll end up being the metro conference version 2.

wolfboy
09-21-2011, 09:08 AM
To where? Does anyone want them? I think UC and Louisville are going to be left standing w/o a chair. It'll end up being the metro conference version 2.

More likely that South Florida and UC are the ones left without a chair.

Scrap Irony
09-21-2011, 09:42 AM
Louisville needs to hitch its wagon to UC and, to a lesser extent, Memphis, and Kansas.

If I were Jurich, I'd be all over a Big XII realignment, wherein my Cardinals could play in a North Division that includes Memphis, UC, Iowa State, and perhaps Kansas and Kansas State.

The South Division could be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and SMU or another Texas school.

bucksfan2
09-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Louisville needs to hitch its wagon to UC and, to a lesser extent, Memphis, and Kansas.

If I were Jurich, I'd be all over a Big XII realignment, wherein my Cardinals could play in a North Division that includes Memphis, UC, Iowa State, and perhaps Kansas and Kansas State.

The South Division could be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and SMU or another Texas school.

Why would OU, Oklahoma State, and Texas want this? They would be the revenue generators for this conference and would be supporting the likes of UL, Memphis, and UC. I can see why they could include the Texas schools but in your scenario the South would be supporting the North.

Slyder
09-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Louisville needs to hitch its wagon to UC and, to a lesser extent, Memphis, and Kansas.

If I were Jurich, I'd be all over a Big XII realignment, wherein my Cardinals could play in a North Division that includes West Virginia, UC, Iowa State, and perhaps Kansas and Kansas State.

The South Division could be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU.


Why would OU, Oklahoma State, and Texas want this? They would be the revenue generators for this conference and would be supporting the likes of UL, Memphis, and UC. I can see why they could include the Texas schools but in your scenario the South would be supporting the North.

What I expect to happen, not quite as bad revenue generators as SMU or Memphis but that travel is going to be heck on WVU.

wolfboy
09-21-2011, 10:13 AM
What I expect to happen, not quite as bad revenue generators as SMU or Memphis but that travel is going to be heck on WVU.

If the Big 12 interested in any program from the Big East, I think it will be WVU and Louisville.

hebroncougar
09-21-2011, 10:20 AM
If the Big 12 interested in any program from the Big East, I think it will be WVU and Louisville.

I just don't see WVU as being attractive to anyone. No recruiting base there, no TV market, academically horrific, and not a nice place to travel to.

Chip R
09-21-2011, 10:27 AM
I just don't see WVU as being attractive to anyone. No recruiting base there, no TV market, academically horrific, and not a nice place to travel to.

Most of the places in the Big 12 aren't excactly paradises or huge TV markets.

cincrazy
09-21-2011, 12:17 PM
I'd be interested to know if it is true that overall OSU fans treat opponents worse than WVU fans, or are we talking isolated incidents.


Speaking from experience (and I'm as diehard of an OSU fan as they come), the Horseshoe can be a brutal place for opposing fans. I remember my sophomore years, some drunk kids were really on this old couple from Iowa, cursing them out and giving them hell, and me and a few buddies almost literally got in a fist fight with them over it (the kids, not the old couple :)).

I've only been on the road once as a college football fan, to Michigan, and I didn't have too tough of a time. Yeah, I caught a lot of flak, but most of it was good natured. And the dirty looks I can deal with. Only once did someone physically tough me, but I didn't feel threatened.

hebroncougar
09-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Most of the places in the Big 12 aren't excactly paradises or huge TV markets.

Which means they'd want WVU why?

Caveat Emperor
09-21-2011, 01:04 PM
Why would OU, Oklahoma State, and Texas want this? They would be the revenue generators for this conference and would be supporting the likes of UL, Memphis, and UC. I can see why they could include the Texas schools but in your scenario the South would be supporting the North.

I think Cincinnati would be an incredibly attractive target to the Big 12 if they were looking to return to a 12 team format. It'd be foothold in Big 10 country for television and recruiting purposes.

Programs that rarely get to venture to this part of the country would be regular fixtures at Paul Brown Stadium and on showcase for one of the top recruiting areas in the country.

Don't think for a second the B12 doesn't see value in that, and don't think for a second the Big 10 would be pleased to see that kind of action right in it's back yard.

Roy Tucker
09-21-2011, 01:15 PM
Speaking from experience (and I'm as diehard of an OSU fan as they come), the Horseshoe can be a brutal place for opposing fans. I remember my sophomore years, some drunk kids were really on this old couple from Iowa, cursing them out and giving them hell, and me and a few buddies almost literally got in a fist fight with them over it (the kids, not the old couple :)).

I've only been on the road once as a college football fan, to Michigan, and I didn't have too tough of a time. Yeah, I caught a lot of flak, but most of it was good natured. And the dirty looks I can deal with. Only once did someone physically tough me, but I didn't feel threatened.

From what I've seen, its the night games is when opposing fans get brutalized.

I've been to 45 years worth of day games at OSU and the opposing fans get treated fairly decently. Ribbing and some smack talk, but people are fairly reasonable and I've seen little trouble.

But I've been to a couple OSU night games there and that's when people have had the day to get truly screwed-up drunk and its a whole different ballgame. Drunks get ugly, get violent, don't know when to stop, and all kinds of other really bad behavior. The worst in people comes out and OSU fans are no different.

And I think that is more of a universal thing with alcohol and night games. I've been to night road games in East Lansing and Madison and it's a good thing we were 4-5 big guys or else we would have gotten killed. I'll never do that again.

bucksfan2
09-21-2011, 01:56 PM
I think Cincinnati would be an incredibly attractive target to the Big 12 if they were looking to return to a 12 team format. It'd be foothold in Big 10 country for television and recruiting purposes.

Programs that rarely get to venture to this part of the country would be regular fixtures at Paul Brown Stadium and on showcase for one of the top recruiting areas in the country.

Don't think for a second the B12 doesn't see value in that, and don't think for a second the Big 10 would be pleased to see that kind of action right in it's back yard.

I guess???????

It would get great/awesome/fantastic etc for UC. With Oklahoma St, Texas, and Oklahoma they would have a decent shot at getting two BCS bowl games in a given year. I don't think that ever was a realistic option for the Big East.

I really don't know what to think about the whole recruiting angle. It seems as if big time programs are now more willing to grab another home game and pay for it, than to get a recruiting game in Cincinnati. Just a year or so ago OSU played a Toledo "home game" in Cleveland. At the same time they bought out UC and moved the game to Columbus, Va Tech bought UC and move the game to the DC area, and Tennessee signed a one year deal with UC for them to head down to Knoxville. It seems to me that a team like Tennessee could benefit greatly from a UC home game, yet they chose not to.

I can see some recruiting value, especially to teams that aren't OU, Texas, but I don't know if the recruiting gain would offset the monetary support that they would provide.

Caveat Emperor
09-21-2011, 02:28 PM
I guess???????

It would get great/awesome/fantastic etc for UC. With Oklahoma St, Texas, and Oklahoma they would have a decent shot at getting two BCS bowl games in a given year. I don't think that ever was a realistic option for the Big East.

I really don't know what to think about the whole recruiting angle. It seems as if big time programs are now more willing to grab another home game and pay for it, than to get a recruiting game in Cincinnati. Just a year or so ago OSU played a Toledo "home game" in Cleveland. At the same time they bought out UC and moved the game to Columbus, Va Tech bought UC and move the game to the DC area, and Tennessee signed a one year deal with UC for them to head down to Knoxville. It seems to me that a team like Tennessee could benefit greatly from a UC home game, yet they chose not to.

I can see some recruiting value, especially to teams that aren't OU, Texas, but I don't know if the recruiting gain would offset the monetary support that they would provide.

I'm approaching the issue from the idea that the Big 12 is going to be forced to add 3 teams to get back to 12 (to have the 6 team divisions and a championship game). If they have to add to 12 (and I assume they will - just to keep pace with the other "major" conferences), and you assume that no one is going to bolt a stable conference (Pac12, ACC, BigWhatever) to join a conference that's in flux, you're going to be drawing from mid-majors or Big East schools (the only group LESS stable than the Big 12).

You're not going to get an economic powerhouse school to add, it's going to be someone that's going to take more money out of the conference than they put back in for now. If that's the case, you may as well get a foothold in a new part of the country (Ohio) that's a fertile recruiting ground and a major metropolitan area.

Chip R
09-21-2011, 02:38 PM
Which means they'd want WVU why?

Are they going to get someone better than WVU? Beggars can't be choosers these days. I'm sure they and every other conference would love to get Notre Dame but that's not happening.

Slyder
09-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Gradulate the Gator - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tXMLI-OsI)

Hahahahahahaha.

wolfboy
09-21-2011, 04:59 PM
I guess???????

It would get great/awesome/fantastic etc for UC. With Oklahoma St, Texas, and Oklahoma they would have a decent shot at getting two BCS bowl games in a given year. I don't think that ever was a realistic option for the Big East.

I really don't know what to think about the whole recruiting angle. It seems as if big time programs are now more willing to grab another home game and pay for it, than to get a recruiting game in Cincinnati. Just a year or so ago OSU played a Toledo "home game" in Cleveland. At the same time they bought out UC and moved the game to Columbus, Va Tech bought UC and move the game to the DC area, and Tennessee signed a one year deal with UC for them to head down to Knoxville. It seems to me that a team like Tennessee could benefit greatly from a UC home game, yet they chose not to.

I can see some recruiting value, especially to teams that aren't OU, Texas, but I don't know if the recruiting gain would offset the monetary support that they would provide.

FWIW, this ESPN article discusses potential B12 expansion back to 12 and Cincinnati gets no mention.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6999866/big-12-discuss-commissioner-dan-beebe-job-status-source-says

For me, the issue is commitment to football. While a program like West Virginia has inherent issues, you can't question their commitment to the football program. Cincinnati has some positives, but they can't overcome UC's failure to bring its football program to an acceptable BCS level. Would you want to share a slice of the pie with a program that doesn't seem to care?

nmculbreth
09-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm approaching the issue from the idea that the Big 12 is going to be forced to add 3 teams to get back to 12 (to have the 6 team divisions and a championship game). If they have to add to 12 (and I assume they will - just to keep pace with the other "major" conferences), and you assume that no one is going to bolt a stable conference (Pac12, ACC, BigWhatever) to join a conference that's in flux, you're going to be drawing from mid-majors or Big East schools (the only group LESS stable than the Big 12).

You're not going to get an economic powerhouse school to add, it's going to be someone that's going to take more money out of the conference than they put back in for now. If that's the case, you may as well get a foothold in a new part of the country (Ohio) that's a fertile recruiting ground and a major metropolitan area.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Big XII decided to be a bit more proactive and try to expand beyond 12, mostly as an attempt to prevent this kind of instability during the next round of expansion. Obviously losing Texas or Oklahoma would still be catastrophic but by expanding beyond 12 they'd be better able to absorb the loss of a school like Missouri and still be able to have a conference championship game.

Whether or not UC would be included in that sort of expansion remains to be seen. The way things stand, UC probably isn't a particularly attractive option but as you point out there probably aren't a ton of programs that would seriously consider joining the Big XII that would make an immediate financial impact. As such I think the Big XII is likely going to have to show a little more foresight and look to add programs that have the potential to be more valuable down the road. I think UC is the kind of program that would meet that sort of criteria, being located in a decent size TV market in an area beyond the conference's current footprint.

From a UC fan's perspective, being able to join a Big XII conference which still has Texas and Oklahoma would be a huge win. I'm still skeptical that it's even a possibility, but I'd be extremely excited if that were to transpire.

paintmered
09-21-2011, 05:08 PM
FWIW, this ESPN article discusses potential B12 expansion back to 12 and Cincinnati gets no mention.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6999866/big-12-discuss-commissioner-dan-beebe-job-status-source-says

For me, the issue is commitment to football. While a program like West Virginia has inherent issues, you can't question their commitment to the football program. Cincinnati has some positives, but they can't overcome UC's failure to bring its football program to an acceptable BCS level. Would you want to share a slice of the pie with a program that doesn't seem to care?

I wouldn't trust anything published by ESPN on this issue. They have an agenda since they have more money at stake with realignment than any individual school.

wolfboy
09-21-2011, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't trust anything published by ESPN on this issue. They have an agenda since they have more money at stake with realignment than any individual school.


Fair point about ESPN. Still, I haven't seen UC's name floated as a prime candidate for B12 expansion. As much as I don't want it to happen, I still think UC gets left out in all of this.

paintmered
09-21-2011, 05:25 PM
Fair point about ESPN. Still, I haven't seen UC's name floated as a prime candidate for B12 expansion. As much as I don't want it to happen, I still think UC gets left out in all of this.

I agree that this is a very real possibility. Although UC has been very quiet on the issue, and those who claim to have "sources" (for whatever that's worth) continue to assert that UC is much better positioned than the conventional wisdom. Maybe they're selling false hope, I don't know. I do know that UC is selling their academics, and especially their research, which sits ahead of both U of L and WVU. Does anyone know how much the Big XIII cares about academics?

UC needs one of the two scenarios to unfold:

The first and best option for UC is to have the Big XII return to 12 and bank on BYU wanting to remain independent (they've turned down the Big XII before). Texas will prevent TCU from entering the conference, and UC sits 3rd in the remaining Big East pecking order behind U of L and WVU but ahead of USF.

The second option is for the Big XII to return to ten schools with BYU being the 10th school (Texas does not want a championship game). Everyone else in the Big East stays put (highly unlikely with UConn and Rutgers with nearly both feet out the door). But at the least the Big East remains in tact as a conference, even if far less viable than the other BCS conferences.

One thing that will help is getting butts in the seats tomorrow night. Promo code: BLACKOUT for $20 tickets to see what will be an entertaining match-up.

WVRed
09-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Which means they'd want WVU why?

This has been debated ad-nauseum in this thread. But just to recap:

Pro's:

Very loyal fan base that will sell out games

Extends into the Pittsburgh market, which is pretty good sized. ACC or Hybrid-Conference would also add Charleston and Huntington (SEC is already there)

In addition to Pittsburgh, most WVU graduates disperse following graduation. There is a following along the east coast, mainly in Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina.

Cons:


While loyal, WVU fans have a reputation of stupid fan incidents.

West Virginia offers nothing in terms of recruiting value.

The TV market will pick up for the state alone and some outside, but other teams have better credentials.

Academically, might as well call it South Pitt Technical College. Academics is why Pitt and Syracuse made it to the ACC.

Traveling isn't the greatest.

wolfboy
09-21-2011, 06:02 PM
One thing that will help is getting butts in the seats tomorrow night. Promo code: BLACKOUT for $20 tickets to see what will be an entertaining match-up.

Couldn't agree more. I'll be there.

paintmered
09-21-2011, 09:48 PM
Apparently, Don Beebe is out as Big XII commish. Being a stooge for Texas, could this mean that the Big XII is set to expand to at least twelve?

I like UC's chances, if so.

marcshoe
09-21-2011, 09:56 PM
In spite of Yahoo giving it a link name that implies the opposite of what the article says, This Article (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-conferencerealignment-bigeast) from Rivals about the results of the Big East meeting seems to describe a league in the process of collapsing. A glimmer of hope for those who'd like to see WVU in the SEC, perhaps, though.

jojo
09-21-2011, 10:00 PM
In spite of Yahoo giving it a link name that implies the opposite of what the article says, This Article (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-conferencerealignment-bigeast) from Rivals about the results of the Big East meeting seems to describe a league in the process of collapsing. A glimmer of hope for those who'd like to see WVU in the SEC, perhaps, though.

I think the SEC would take VA Tech in a second but the snag is that they probably wouldn't go anywhere without Virginia because their cousin.

Latest I've heard is that the SEC has definitely turned down WVU, has definitely extended and offer to Mizzou and would realign with Auburn switching to the east.

Slyder
09-21-2011, 11:15 PM
I think the SEC would take VA Tech in a second but the snag is that they probably wouldn't go anywhere without Virginia because their cousin.

Latest I've heard is that the SEC has definitely turned down WVU, has definitely extended and offer to Mizzou and would realign with Auburn switching to the east.

I've heard so many things that my head feels like its been through a spin cycle. Got people on a board I visit speaking in code, speaking in poem, pulling stuff out of their backsides, I dunno. But everyone seems to know what the SEC is going to do but there hasn't been a word out of Mike Slive or Oliver Luck's mouth. So everything is conjecture.

KronoRed
09-22-2011, 01:22 AM
I think the SEC would take VA Tech in a second but the snag is that they probably wouldn't go anywhere without Virginia because their cousin.

Latest I've heard is that the SEC has definitely turned down WVU, has definitely extended and offer to Mizzou and would realign with Auburn switching to the east.

No matter what happens Auburn is not switching to the east, that would end the Alabama/Tennessee game and that simply won't happen.

Caveat Emperor
09-22-2011, 01:25 AM
In spite of Yahoo giving it a link name that implies the opposite of what the article says, This Article (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-conferencerealignment-bigeast) from Rivals about the results of the Big East meeting seems to describe a league in the process of collapsing. A glimmer of hope for those who'd like to see WVU in the SEC, perhaps, though.

I think WVU is in no better position right now than Cincinnati, Louisville or South Florida. With the ACC and SEC already having sent them packing, they (like the other 3) are now forced to hope that the Big 12 goes looking for members and doesn't start with BYU or TCU.

WVRed
09-22-2011, 06:23 AM
I think WVU is in no better position right now than Cincinnati, Louisville or South Florida. With the ACC and SEC already having sent them packing, they (like the other 3) are now forced to hope that the Big 12 goes looking for members and doesn't start with BYU or TCU.

And even then, do you take it?

1. The conference is basically going to be the AAA of college sports. The four superconferences are set, so any future raiding would be of the remaining Big 12, Big East, or other midmajors.

2. If you move to the Big 12, odds are it is going to be a traveling nightmare with WVU being the furthest school east. For revenue generating sports, such as football, this can be overlooked. For nonrevenue sports such as lacrosse, this becomes an issue.

If I were WVU, I would stay put in a newly formed Big East, even if it sinks so bad that Marshall gets an invite. Become the Boise of the Big East in all sports and when the SEC/ACC looks to expand again, take it and don't look back.

KronoRed
09-22-2011, 07:01 AM
WVU could be back on the SEC's radar as Missouri likely stays put, scheduling with 13 teams is likely to be a huge hassle.

Slyder
09-22-2011, 07:18 AM
And even then, do you take it?

1. The conference is basically going to be the AAA of college sports. The four superconferences are set, so any future raiding would be of the remaining Big 12, Big East, or other midmajors.

2. If you move to the Big 12, odds are it is going to be a traveling nightmare with WVU being the furthest school east. For revenue generating sports, such as football, this can be overlooked. For nonrevenue sports such as lacrosse, this becomes an issue.

If I were WVU, I would stay put in a newly formed Big East, even if it sinks so bad that Marshall gets an invite. Become the Boise of the Big East in all sports and when the SEC/ACC looks to expand again, take it and don't look back.

How much different would it be for those non revenue sports flying charter/renting compared to renting a bus? With the money the Big 12 would make you could get a couple planes strictly for non revenue purposes and write off the loss. Or you could strike a deal with one of the airlines to get cheaper tickets in exchange for the advertising.

And honestly I would rather be in AAA in the Big 12 than the AA that the Big East is becoming with who they are talking about adding. I don't believe the rumors about the service academies we have heard that for YEARS and yet to come to fruition.

bucksfan2
09-22-2011, 09:28 AM
This has been debated ad-nauseum in this thread. But just to recap:

Pro's:

Very loyal fan base that will sell out games

Extends into the Pittsburgh market, which is pretty good sized. ACC or Hybrid-Conference would also add Charleston and Huntington (SEC is already there)

In addition to Pittsburgh, most WVU graduates disperse following graduation. There is a following along the east coast, mainly in Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina.

Cons:


While loyal, WVU fans have a reputation of stupid fan incidents.

West Virginia offers nothing in terms of recruiting value.

The TV market will pick up for the state alone and some outside, but other teams have better credentials.

Academically, might as well call it South Pitt Technical College. Academics is why Pitt and Syracuse made it to the ACC.

Traveling isn't the greatest.


I just don't see what WVU adds besides a nice football program with a loyal fan base. I don't see the attraction in landing Pittsburgh because they are at least the #3 team in that region behind Pitt and PSU. N. Carolina? They are behind UNC, NC State, and Duke as well as maybe East Carolina. Virginia and Maryland? I would say that Va Tech corners that market as well as Virginia and the other power house programs across the nation. They would bring the entire state of West Virginia, but I don't know what that is worth.

But this whole expansion thing got me thinking. What if the Pac 12 and Big 10 stand put and the Big 12 stays viable? The biggest name school to move was Nebraska. You can jockey all you want but if you are not landing a big name school (Texas, OU, OSU, OSU, Michigan, ND, PSU, USC, etc.) what is the purpose of expanding? It could be very interesting to see what happens if both the Pac 12 and Big 10 stay put.

WVRed
09-23-2011, 10:49 AM
I just don't see what WVU adds besides a nice football program with a loyal fan base. I don't see the attraction in landing Pittsburgh because they are at least the #3 team in that region behind Pitt and PSU. N. Carolina? They are behind UNC, NC State, and Duke as well as maybe East Carolina. Virginia and Maryland? I would say that Va Tech corners that market as well as Virginia and the other power house programs across the nation. They would bring the entire state of West Virginia, but I don't know what that is worth.

From a regional cable deal, it wouldn't be worth much. If the SEC goes the route of the B10 and Pac12 and forms their own network, there would be followers in those states.

The more I think about it, I would really like to see the SEC expand to 16 teams and go to a pod format. Play everybody in your pod in football and play another pod each year plus one from the other (NFL setup). In basketball play everybody in the pod twice and the rest of the conference once.

Example: (Add WVU, Missouri, A&M, and USF)

SEC North:
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
West Virginia

SEC Atlantic:
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
South Florida

SEC Gulf:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC West:
Arkansas
LSU
Missouri
Texas A&M

reds1869
09-23-2011, 10:51 AM
A big part of me thinks that when all is said and done none of us will recognize the world of college sports.

Gallen5862
09-25-2011, 10:30 PM
ESPN reported that Texas A&M has joined the SEC.

Gallen5862
09-25-2011, 11:13 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-09-25/sec-announces-texas-am-becomes-official-member-July-1-2012?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk3%7C98851

SEC announces Texas A&M becomes official member July 1, 2012
PUBLISHED Sunday, Sep 25, 2011 at 5:04 pm EDT
LAST UPDATED 14 minutes and 16 seconds ago
Staff reportSporting News
Text sizeAAA
SEC presidents and chancellors announced Sunday that Texas A&M will join the conference as the league’s 13th member July 1, 2012, and the Aggies will begin competing in all sports for the 2012-13 academic year.

The SEC announced the move will be effective next July, and said Texas A&M will participate in all sports during the 2012-13 academic year. That gives the SEC 13 members and its first addition since South Carolina and Arkansas in 1992.

KronoRed
09-25-2011, 11:51 PM
Looking forward to seeing what kind of schedule dance they do for 13 teams in football.

Danny Serafini
09-26-2011, 11:36 AM
13 teams isn't unworkable, the MAC has been doing it on-and-off for years.

BuckeyeRed27
09-26-2011, 02:35 PM
So as it stands now:

Big 12 has 9 teams
SEC has 13
Big East has 7 football schools

Is that right?