PDA

View Full Version : Hernandez



Slyder
07-19-2011, 08:19 PM
Because of the multiple threads mentioning him. I wanted to just get a poll question up. It is simple...

Would trading Ramon Hernandez to (insert any number of teams) be considered waving the white flag or would you be willing to let Mes have a chance? Mes projects to be a "middle of the order bat" and could possibly provide a spark.

Assuming a Surkamp (name mentioned often) and another prospect in the lower levels of minors.

Assuming this is going to be the ONLY move for the sake of discussion.

1 Yes.
2 Wait. You would be willing to give Mes a shot.
3 No. Trading Hernandez is just attempting to manage what resources we have.

cinreds21
07-19-2011, 08:20 PM
I personally don't care one way or another. Mes is going to be up here by September at the latest. If they feel that they can get more in prospects than draft picks come the end of the year, then so be it. I don't think they could go wrong either way. I would rather they trade him, but that's just me and I won't be mad if they don't.

Mario-Rijo
07-19-2011, 08:30 PM
Umm, I'd say it wouldn't necessarily be waving the white flag unless it is the only deal.

RedFanAlways1966
07-19-2011, 08:39 PM
(1) If trading Ramon Hernandez ruins this team's chances this year, then those chances are pretty slim.

(2) If trading a 35-yr-old catcher in an attempt to get a missing piece of the puzzle is bad, then just cease-and-desist with all trades.

Ramon seems good at handling/communicating w/ the young pitchers. It is an asset that cannot be measured. He also has hit over .300 (excuse me for mentioning BA) this year. However, he is a part-time player and history does not favor a catcher at this age. Sell high. There are teams with needs for a catcher. Mes may not hit as well as Ramon, but the team can play .500 ball with or without Ramon. I am willing to take a chance on that missing piece with Mes sharing catcher duties in the hopes that a .500 team will get better. If it gets worse this year, then it makes little difference to this fan if they finish 4 games out of the playoffs or 10 games out of the playoffs. It will matter to this fan if they do not attempt to improve a team that still has a legit chance.

Griffey012
07-19-2011, 09:59 PM
If they trade him for nothing than it can be seen as waving the white flag. If they trade him for a decent return that can help the team now or in the future, than it is just being a smart GM.

alexad
07-19-2011, 10:13 PM
He is not a high paid player so I do not view it as a white flag. This team needs a major shake up before the hole to climb out of is too deep.

Blitz Dorsey
07-19-2011, 10:37 PM
Hilarious how opinions can change in a week. I started a thread recently and roughly half the posters were up in arms like "How could you suggest that it would be smart to trade Ramon right now?"

The answer was simple then and is simple now: Because we don't want to lose him for nothing ... and because we have the best minor league catcher in all of baseball.

AtomicDumpling
07-19-2011, 11:56 PM
There are four scenarios from which to choose:

1. Trade Hernandez for an upgrade at another position.
2. Trade Hernandez for a legitimate prospect or two.
3. Keep Hernandez.
4. Trade Hernandez for peanuts so you don't have to pay him.

I am OK with scenarios 1-3, but scenario 4 is unacceptable.

Guacarock
08-07-2011, 11:43 PM
Now that we are waving the white flag, isn't it time to revisit the idea of trading Hernandez to a contender?

The team most interested in him, the Giants, have gone 2-8 in their last 10 games. Their pitching remains strong, but their offense continues to sputter, even after the acquisitions of Beltran, Cabrera and Keppinger. They are barely clinging to first place over the Diamondbacks, and have made it known they want to add another bat or two. Hernandez would certainly provide them some needed pop while also filling a position where their offense has been especially woeful since Posey's injury.

We have an added impetus to trade Hernandez so we can call up Mesoraco and see how he handles big league pitching. I wouldn't want to entertain any off-season trades involving Grandal, for instance, unless we were confident in Mesoraco's ability to adjust following his promotion. If we can get Mesoraco six weeks of playing time with the Reds, that's a lot better window than only seeing him in limited play after September call-ups.

My only questions:

1. Can Hernandez successfully pass through the waiver wire or will the Diamondbacks or another contender put in a claim to block the Giants getting him?

2. And now that we squandered the opportunity to trade Hernandez before the deadline, what kind of return can we expect for him, either from a claimant or the Giants? LH pitching prospect Surkamp probably is too high a price for the Giants to pay, but then again, they are floundering and desperately need at least one more piece to contend. If we can still score Surkamp, even if we have to sweeten the deal by trading another prospect along with Hernandez, we need to pull the trigger.

Ron Madden
08-08-2011, 01:33 AM
I can't see how trading Hernandez (with Mesoraco wating in the wings) could be viewed as waving the white flag.

I'd rather trade him for minor league filler than let him walk away with nothing in return at the end of the season.

Will M
08-08-2011, 01:41 AM
if he gets claimed by the Giants or simply passes through waivers then deal him to the Giants. should have been done in July. if it can still be done its a 'no brainer'.

reasons not to:
1)if the team plans to re-sign Ramon to pair with Mes in 2012 & deal Hanigan. this scenario seems pretty unlikely.
2) the team plans to offer him arbitration in the hopes of getting draft pick compensation. it seems like he'd accept & get a bigger contract than the team would want.

Ron Madden
08-08-2011, 01:48 AM
if he gets claimed by the Giants or simply passes through waivers then deal him to the Giants. should have been done in July. if it can still be done its a 'no brainer'.

reasons not to:
1)if the team plans to re-sign Ramon to pair with Mes in 2012 & deal Hanigan. this scenario seems pretty unlikely.
2) the team plans to offer him arbitration in the hopes of getting draft pick compensation. it seems like he'd accept & get a bigger contract than the team would want.

Agreed, I thought sure Walt would trade Hernandez before the deadline.

In my opinion it would be foolish to offer him arbitration.

Guacarock
08-08-2011, 01:59 AM
I can't see how trading Hernandez (with Mesoraco wating in the wings) could be viewed as waving the white flag.

I'd rather trade him for minor league filler than let him walk away with nothing in return at the end of the season.

I guess I should clarify myself. For the balance of this season, we ought to be giving as many at bats as we can to the prospects we either intend to play in 2012 or trade this off-season.

In the case of the keepers, we'll be giving them a leg up to succeed next year. In the case of those we might trade, we'll be giving them one long last, hard look so we don't mistakenly deal them off when we should have continued to stockpile them.

We don't want to repeat the kind of boner that Brewers' GM Doug Melvin committed when he worked a deal with the Rangers to acquire Francisco Cordero for Carlos Lee, and then added Nelson Cruz as a throw-in.

Is this sorting out process absolutely necessary? Yes.

Is it a capitulation for this season, a case of waving the white flag? Yes and no. Not if the prospects outperform the guys they're bumping, but yes if we see more bumps as the kids grapple with the learning curve. We won't know which it will be until we go there, but it is time to go there.

Ron Madden
08-08-2011, 02:04 AM
if he gets claimed by the Giants or simply passes through waivers then deal him to the Giants. should have been done in July. if it can still be done its a 'no brainer'.

reasons not to:
1)if the team plans to re-sign Ramon to pair with Mes in 2012 & deal Hanigan. this scenario seems pretty unlikely.
2) the team plans to offer him arbitration in the hopes of getting draft pick compensation. it seems like he'd accept & get a bigger contract than the team would want.

The only reason I can see for resigning Hernandez and trading Hanigan is IMHO Hanigan has more trade value.

I hope Hanigan is still here as a back up to Mesoraco next season.

.

Ron Madden
08-08-2011, 02:14 AM
I guess I should clarify myself. For the balance of this season, we ought to be giving as many at bats as we can to the prospects we either intend to play in 2012 or trade this off-season.

In the case of the keepers, we'll be giving them a leg up to succeed next year. In the case of those we might trade, we'll be giving them one long last, hard look so we don't mistakenly deal them off when we should have continued to stockpile them.

We don't want to repeat the kind of boner that Brewers' GM Doug Melvin committed when he worked a deal with the Rangers to acquire Francisco Cordero for Carlos Lee, and then added Nelson Cruz as a throw-in.

Is this sorting out process absolutely necessary? Yes.

Is it a capitulation for this season, a case of waving the white flag? Yes and no. Not if the prospects outperform the guys they're bumping, but yes if we see more bumps as the kids grapple with the learning curve. We won't know which it will be until we go there, but it is time to go there.

It's me that should have made myself more clear.

I agree with both of your post in this thread. I was referring to the question asked by Slyder in the first post of this thread.

Would trading Hernandez be considered waving the white flag?

RANDY IN INDY
08-08-2011, 09:10 AM
Surkamp? Don't think the Giants will offer him. I think folks are dreaming.

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2011, 09:39 AM
Surkamp? Don't think the Giants will offer him. I think folks are dreaming.

I'd take a shot at Conor Gillaspie, a LHH 3rd baseman who is a former 1st round pick himself and still only 23. Not sure they will deal him for Ramon straight up but if we expand the deal a bit to include a prospect of our own (perhaps another young LHH 3B, Juan) maybe we can get Gillaspie and then some. Something else to consider here also, sending Francisco and receiving Gillaspie probably improves our rule V issues a bit. I'm guessing Juan would have to be on the 40 (I think since last December IIRC) while Gillaspie should still be able to remain off of it for another season or perhaps 2.

Ramon & Juan "San" Francisco to S.F.

Gillaspie and C Max Ramirez to Reds

Mes comes up and Ramirez goes to Louisville to platoon with Corky, along with Gillaspie to 3B down there.

**Edit Gillaspie actually looks to be on their 40 so scratch that idea but he is still a good target. (PTBNL)

Guacarock
08-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Surkamp? Don't think the Giants will offer him. I think folks are dreaming.

Under normal circumstances, I would have to agree with you. Surkamp is too high of a target to expect back in trade for Hernandez. But with the Giants in a freefall, going 2-8 over their last 10 games, they have to be getting mighty nervous and desperate for an offensive-oriented catcher.

I like Mario-Rijo's idea of offering up Hernandez and Juan Francisco to the Giants, but the return I would demand is Surkamp -- nothing more, nothing less.

Guacarock
08-17-2011, 10:06 PM
The Giants' quirky closer, Brian Wilson, now out at least 2-3 days nursing an inflamed elbow. If Hernandez has cleared waivers, deal him to the Giants in a package with Cordero. We pick up Cordero's tab through the season, the Giants pay Hernandez and surrender Surkamp. Fair deal, if you ask me.

Ron Madden
08-18-2011, 04:35 AM
The Giants' quirky closer, Brian Wilson, now out at least 2-3 days nursing an inflamed elbow. If Hernandez has cleared waivers, deal him to the Giants in a package with Cordero. We pick up Cordero's tab through the season, the Giants pay Hernandez and surrender Surkamp. Fair deal, if you ask me.

I wish.

Guacarock
08-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Brian Wilson now goes on the DL. Giants scrambling to identify a closer after losing 5 of 6.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110821&content_id=23533724&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb