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FireDusty
07-20-2011, 08:27 AM
Name for me the manager who has managed the last 581 games for the Reds and recorded an overall record of 289-293?

2011: 47-50 .490
2010: 91-71 .562
2009: 78-84 .481
2008: 74-88 .457

3 out of those 4 years is under .500...yet he got an extension based on a season in which the team had miracle come back after miracle come back.

This guy can't manage. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but nothing is going to truly change for this organization until this turd is fired.

I'll give him the 74-88 season as his "rebuild". He's had ample talent in 2009 & 2010 and now 2011 to finish over .500. He did it one year....with miracle comebacks.

Dusty Baker will never lead this team to a World Series, let alone a World Series Title. It will never happen.

Take it to the bank.

Fire the coaching staff. That is how you turn this thing around. I'll go so far as to say they should finish the season. The day after the last out....fire them all.

Vottomatic
07-20-2011, 08:48 AM
I think Dusty has this team screwed up too.

markymark69
07-20-2011, 10:58 AM
Guys - at some point the players have to held accountable. It's not all Dusty's fault. The coaches and managers are not striking out in key situations - or running into outs at third base - or walking the pitcher - or grooving a fastball to the best player in the game.

Ultimately, if this team fails Dusty will take the fall - as all managers do - but it's the players, not the manager that decide how the team fares.

NatiWolfpack24
07-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Don't feed the troll kids

brm7675
07-20-2011, 12:24 PM
Guys - at some point the players have to held accountable. It's not all Dusty's fault. The coaches and managers are not striking out in key situations - or running into outs at third base - or walking the pitcher - or grooving a fastball to the best player in the game.

Ultimately, if this team fails Dusty will take the fall - as all managers do - but it's the players, not the manager that decide how the team fares.

No question the players share in the blame, but when you put them in a poor position to win, or play bad players that falls on the manager. Players like Edgar and Gomes should have never been on this team. Scott Rolen should be a platoon player at best (platooned with either Cairo or Frazier). EV should have never been on the opening day roster. To continually put out bad lineup cards day ina nd day out is not the players fault. The inability of our "hitting" coach to work with players like Stubbs to decrease his K rate is unacceptable. To have a GM waste monies on players like Gomes, Edgar and others while not actually addressing this teams needs is unacceptable. To allow good young minor league talent to spoil in the minors and not bring them up or use as trade material to improve your major league team is unacceptable. To be an owner of a major league baseball team and to resign a manager with a history of average managing is a waste of money and a poor decision. Yes the players share some of the blame, but they can only do so much...:thumbdown:

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Don't feed the troll kidsDie Hard Reds fan since 1970.

I can name starting lineups from so far back it's embarrasing.

I am not alone in my opinion & it does not take a troll to havr this opinion.

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 03:53 PM
Guys - at some point the players have to held accountable. It's not all Dusty's fault. The coaches and managers are not striking out in key situations - or running into outs at third base - or walking the pitcher - or grooving a fastball to the best player in the game.

Ultimately, if this team fails Dusty will take the fall - as all managers do - but it's the players, not the manager that decide how the team fares.

You can't fire all the players.

I can fault the approach these players have been allowed to take.

The entire organization rewards nothing. It puts a preference on draft position and contract status over merits gained on the diamond. It rewards players based on the managers personal relationship.

Little Earl
07-20-2011, 04:55 PM
This could be the year that set in motion what the club needs to be one of the best for the next few years. Fire Dusty would be a start. Then trade guys like Hernandez to upgrade the team. It took the bad 1971 season to set in motion the transactions that made the Big Red Machine.

markymark69
07-20-2011, 05:17 PM
You can't fire all the players.

I can fault the approach these players have been allowed to take.

The entire organization rewards nothing. It puts a preference on draft position and contract status over merits gained on the diamond. It rewards players based on the managers personal relationship.

But it seems like everything is laid at Dusty's feet. A manager makes a difference in a very few games - it comes down to the production of the players.

I know you can't fire the players - which is why the axe ultimately falls on the manager.

But very seldom does anyone blame the players for not producing - that's all I'm saying.

Also, be careful what you wish for - if Dusty goes I believe this organization goes back to promoting from within - like in the years past when it failed and failed miserably.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 05:28 PM
But it seems like everything is laid at Dusty's feet. A manager makes a difference in a very few games - it comes down to the production of the players.

I know you can't fire the players - which is why the axe ultimately falls on the manager.

But very seldom does anyone blame the players for not producing - that's all I'm saying.

Also, be careful what you wish for - if Dusty goes I believe this organization goes back to promoting from within - like in the years past when it failed and failed miserably.

It is the job of the manager to put the best possible lineup on the field each and every day, and to use his pitching staff to best maximize their abilities. So my question is this, has Dusty done that? If the answer is yes then he keeps his job, if the answer is no, then he should be fired. I do believe that there will be times when any manager will make out a bad lineup card, but the issue comes down to how often he does that. Also, it's the job of the GM to provide a manager with the best possible talent allowed by the budget, again do you think Walt has done this, if so, then he keeps his job, if not then he should be let go.

Baseball is a very simple game that in many cases is over complicated. It's a known fact that players abilities decline as they get older, unless they partake in a little something called PED's. But if they don't their numbers do not get better with age (See Rolen, Edgar). You can also look at a players history and see what kind of production you can expect from him and know that at times they will get "hot" but overall their numbers will remain what they are year in and year out or decline (See Gomes). Both GM's and Managers are a major key in how teams perform and in the Reds case both of our lack in some of the most basic skills of constructing a team.

markymark69
07-20-2011, 05:43 PM
It is the job of the manager to put the best possible lineup on the field each and every day, and to use his pitching staff to best maximize their abilities. So my question is this, has Dusty done that? If the answer is yes then he keeps his job, if the answer is no, then he should be fired. I do believe that there will be times when any manager will make out a bad lineup card, but the issue comes down to how often he does that. Also, it's the job of the GM to provide a manager with the best possible talent allowed by the budget, again do you think Walt has done this, if so, then he keeps his job, if not then he should be let go.

Baseball is a very simple game that in many cases is over complicated. It's a known fact that players abilities decline as they get older, unless they partake in a little something called PED's. But if they don't their numbers do not get better with age (See Rolen, Edgar). You can also look at a players history and see what kind of production you can expect from him and know that at times they will get "hot" but overall their numbers will remain what they are year in and year out or decline (See Gomes). Both GM's and Managers are a major key in how teams perform and in the Reds case both of our lack in some of the most basic skills of constructing a team.


Don't disagree with what you have to say. But there are 25 guys for a reason - you have to use them all. Plus there are stats against certain pitchers and gut feeling.

It still comes down to - as a major league player - when you are put into the game you are expected to perform - at that point it is out of the manager's hands - whether it's Dusty, Joe Torre or John McGraw.

Rolen has had a down year and I was never really in favor of Renteria being on this team - but your boy Janish was no better - in fact he was worse. There is no real viable option at third right now.

Heisey, who I would like to see play more, is only batting .250 (and that's with two hits today) and has played a lot recently (as has Cozart) and it hasn't seemed to change things too much. Which kind of proves my point - whether it's Heisey or Gomes or whoever - they have to produce - if they don't it's on them.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 06:21 PM
Don't disagree with what you have to say. But there are 25 guys for a reason - you have to use them all. Plus there are stats against certain pitchers and gut feeling.

It still comes down to - as a major league player - when you are put into the game you are expected to perform - at that point it is out of the manager's hands - whether it's Dusty, Joe Torre or John McGraw.

Rolen has had a down year and I was never really in favor of Renteria being on this team - but your boy Janish was no better - in fact he was worse. There is no real viable option at third right now.

The problem is that both Dusty and Walt felt ole Scott could match last years number and I am unclear on how anyone could think that given common sense. With Rolen's injury history, his aging body and declining second half numbers last year, how could anyone think he would produce this year is beyond me. Yes, have him on the team, but he shouldn't play more then 75-80 games total.

Heisey, who I would like to see play more, is only batting .250 (and that's with two hits today) and has played a lot recently (as has Cozart) and it hasn't seemed to change things too much. Which kind of proves my point - whether it's Heisey or Gomes or whoever - they have to produce - if they don't it's on them.

Most players need to play everyday, get into a routine, very flew players play well in a platoon situtation. Put Heisey in LF and leave him there for an entire season and see what happens.

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 06:33 PM
But it seems like everything is laid at Dusty's feet. A manager makes a difference in a very few games - it comes down to the production of the players.

I know you can't fire the players - which is why the axe ultimately falls on the manager.

But very seldom does anyone blame the players for not producing - that's all I'm saying.

Also, be careful what you wish for - if Dusty goes I believe this organization goes back to promoting from within - like in the years past when it failed and failed miserably.It shoud be very few games, but Dusty imposes bad decisions into games insuring that his decisions have an affect more often than if he just played it by the book more often.

You are correct. A manager that manages pretty much by the book will have an affect on a handful of games. Dusty is so far from the book It makes me wonder if he can read.

Also, I think the axiom that managers don't have a direct affect on that many games is related directly to game situations. A manager has a huge affect on the approach his caoches take, his players take, and which players should be on the team.

Dusty is horrid in this department.

Vottomatic
07-20-2011, 08:04 PM
Dusty is one of the worst managers I've ever seen at handling a pitching staff.

NatiWolfpack24
07-20-2011, 09:14 PM
Die Hard Reds fan since 1970.

I can name starting lineups from so far back it's embarrasing.

I am not alone in my opinion & it does not take a troll to havr this opinion.

Posting the same thread with a different title every other day is trolling.

mu4103
07-20-2011, 10:07 PM
You can't fire all the players.

I can fault the approach these players have been allowed to take.

The entire organization rewards nothing. It puts a preference on draft position and contract status over merits gained on the diamond. It rewards players based on the managers personal relationship.

This is my problem with Dusty as well. At some point a good manager learns from these mistakes. I think Dusty and the organization has been too complacent based on last year's finish. At the beginning of the year Dusty was getting angry with the media for questioning his line-up decisions feeling that he didn't have to explain himself. That is not good media relations. What about now? Five games behind the Pirates. Does Dusty still feel that he doesn't have to answer questions about his line-ups?

jhiller21
07-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Fire the coaching staff. That is how you turn this thing around. I'll go so far as to say they should finish the season. The day after the last out....fire them all.

I'd have to say firing Bryan Price would be a pretty horrible idea. He's one of the better pitching coaches in the NL.

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 10:54 PM
Posting the same thread with a different title every other day is trolling.
Show me another thread that I started that specifically focused on firing Dusty Baker.

If I did, I won't title any more threads with that focus.

My username speaks for itself.

I can assure you that I am not a troll. This site needs both sides to really be fun. I don't purposely target managers or players just to rouse the rabble, but I feel strongly about my team.

I go way back. Man, I had the entire starting 8 (Bubble Gum Cards) out on the floor when we played the Orioles in 1970 when I was 5. I didn't understand the game until 1972. In that series I knew batting stats. By the 75 season, I was calculating batting averages in my head.

My very best memories as a child were going to the Convenient Store and buying baseball cards. It was & remains the greatest stale gum ever. The sugar powder from the gum would kinda get on the card it was up against & the smell remains the greatest smell ever.

I actually remember the sadness that befell the neighborhood when the Reds lost the series in 1972. Neighbor ladies were crying because we had lost to the A's.

In 1973, the neighborhood was full of Fathers that were ready to kick some ass after the fight in the playoffs.

In 1974, it was finishing 98-64 and not even getting in the playoffs.

In 1975, it was watching the Reds just ***** slap everyone, but worrying that we might choke in the series. Then, it was seeing the entire city shut down, the neighborhood band together and the complete an utter stress that was the 1975 World Series. It was the realization after Fisk hit the homer in game 6 that the Reds may be cursed. It was watching my Dad literally age in front of me. It was falling behind in game 7 and feeling the energy of the entire neighborhood going down the drain & then watching Yaz stroll to the plate with a chance to win the series in the bottom of the 9th in game 7 with a walk off homerun…to then fly out to the Chief sealing the World Series. The neighborhood had a whole new swagger. Things were just different. It was like everyone could go on with their lives because we had finally got the monkey off our backs.

In 1976, it was like watching a slow train that couldn’t be stopped. The starting 8 only appeared in like 32 game starting lineup cards throughout the season due to injuries, only to be the only starting 8 to play every inning of every post season game. It was Dan Dreissen DHing for the NL, the first NL DH. It was George Foster actually being nearly as deserving of the MVP as Joe Morgan. It was Ken Griffey losing the batting title on the last day when Bill Madlock went 5-5. It was the closest thing to perfection I have ever witnessed, and then listening to Billy Martin state that Munson was better than Bench and then Bench stamping his ticket to the Hall of Fame.

Anyway, sorry if I posted twice about firing Baker.

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 11:01 PM
I'd have to say firing Bryan Price would be a pretty horrible idea. He's one of the better pitching coaches in the NL.

What do you base this on?

R_Webb18
07-20-2011, 11:04 PM
how is saying the same stuff all day fun?

FireDusty
07-21-2011, 12:12 AM
how is saying the same stuff all day fun?

Because I never dreamed that fans would ever have a voice like the internet. Professional team owners actually have people on staff to see what is being said about their franchise. They do get feedback. Specific threads are surely not referenced, but the voice of the fan is heard.

Post show up in Google Searches, and many other searches. It truly blows me away that we live in a time where fans can actually have an affect on team ownership.

I specifically have no affect, however...I am but one more voice calling for the head of Dusty Baker and the list grows everyday. One day, the voices will speak loud enough and Dusty will be gone, in part because he is an ineffective manager and partly because the chorus of fans that want him gone will have grown to a wall of sound heard throughout Reds Land.

Thanks for your concern about my happiness. It makes me happy to be able to post about the Reds. I know Dusty lovers hate to see post from fans that have the audacity to exercise their right to freedom of speech.

Sorry about your luck.