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View Full Version : Buster Olney, James Shields, Johnny Damon?



mroby85
07-20-2011, 11:40 AM
I just saw Buster Olney tweet that the Rays are scouting the Reds organization and would possibly be trading James Shields, and would also be willing to trade Johnny Damon (not in relation to the Reds) Seemed like Shields was more of a Reds target. I just wish they would hurry up and do what they're going to do because I'm tired of waiting, lol.




Buster_ESPNBuster Olney





Among the pitchers that the Reds are targeting: TB's James Shields. This could be why TB scouts evaluating CIN minor leaguers this week.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 12:11 PM
Yep lets add another pitcher, because god knows we need that...;-(

Red Rover
07-20-2011, 12:28 PM
Yep lets add another pitcher, because god knows we need that...;-(

Sure we do, because if this is the same pitching staff next year than the Reds might as well kiss that good bye also.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 12:47 PM
Sure we do, because if this is the same pitching staff next year than the Reds might as well kiss that good bye also.

How is that? You have your ACE in Cueto, a good 2 guy in Leake and a possible 3 guy in Homer. I think Wood will continue to progress and you have Chapman at somepoint, no, this team is fine pitching wise, if the issue at Lf and 3rd are not addressed and the coaching problems addressed we will continue to struggle.

Girevik
07-20-2011, 12:52 PM
if the issue at Lf and 3rd are not addressed and the coaching problems addressed we will continue to struggle.

But if you CAN'T address thos positions because there is no one available at those positions doesn't it make sense to imporove the team in the area that you can rather than just doing nothing?

Jefferson24
07-20-2011, 12:58 PM
How is that? You have your ACE in Cueto, a good 2 guy in Leake and a possible 3 guy in Homer. I think Wood will continue to progress and you have Chapman at somepoint, no, this team is fine pitching wise, if the issue at Lf and 3rd are not addressed and the coaching problems addressed we will continue to struggle.

The Reds are 22nd out of 30 in team ERA. I think there is room for improvement. I don't think just letting players get older and hope they develop will be enough.

They are 12th in average, 10th in OPS and 5th in runs out of 30 teams. Bottom line is the hitting is considerably better than the pitching. Would I like to see a new bat in left field, you bet. However I think a TOR arm would prove more beneficial.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 02:08 PM
The Reds are 22nd out of 30 in team ERA. I think there is room for improvement. I don't think just letting players get older and hope they develop will be enough.

Why not?

They are 12th in average, 10th in OPS and 5th in runs out of 30 teams. Bottom line is the hitting is considerably better than the pitching. Would I like to see a new bat in left field, you bet. However I think a TOR arm would prove more beneficial.

We have a TOR, do we have a leadoff hitter? Do we have a true RH power bat or a number 4 hitter?

krm1580
07-20-2011, 04:36 PM
I was curious what people think of Shields?

His numbers look great this season but he was getting progressively worse over the past 4 years with WHIP and BA against going the wrong direction.

I know he pitches in the AL East and all but do you think he is legit or not.

Jefferson24
07-20-2011, 04:40 PM
Why not? Because over the past 3 years I have heard that all we need to do with Bailey is let him mature and develop. Each year I think this will be the year he puts it together, each year I am wrong. I don't want to watch the Reds sit like they have over the past several years and hope that it finally clicks with their young pitchers. Nothing wrong with having a young inconsistent pitcher in the 4 or 5 spot but right now the only pitcher I have any confidence in is Cueto. Everyone else seems to be hit or miss. Most of them have been pitching a little better as of lately but how long will that continue? Is Cueto a TOR arm, maybe, but what it wrong with 2 TOR arms?

Redinlexington
07-20-2011, 04:43 PM
Pitching in NL and specifically the NL central is easier than AL east, but I would still rather have Jimenez. Shields isn't a number 1 like Ubaldo could be. Shields would be an upgrade over Arroyo, Bailey and Willis right now, but Bailey's ceiling is higher. I would be scared to trade with Tampa Bay, they have one of the best farm systems, and eye for talent. Their young arms are really good. They usually trade at the right time. It depends on who they want. An upgrade yes, but for what?

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 04:47 PM
Shields is a better pitcher than Jimenez. He doesn't get the press that Jimez gets, but he has much better control.

He's a couple years older, but at 29 has plenty of gas left in the tank.

mu4103
07-20-2011, 04:53 PM
Shields is having a great year. I think he is either turning the corner into becoming an elite pitcher or just having a good year. Tough to tell. Jimenez obviously has dynamite stuff and at times is the best pitcher in baseball, but is inconsistent. Jimenez is having a bad year, Shields is having a good year. Tough to tell. Side by side I would take Jimenez based on potential.

krm1580
07-20-2011, 05:21 PM
Shields is having a great year. I think he is either turning the corner into becoming an elite pitcher or just having a good year. Tough to tell. Jimenez obviously has dynamite stuff and at times is the best pitcher in baseball, but is inconsistent. Jimenez is having a bad year, Shields is having a good year. Tough to tell. Side by side I would take Jimenez based on potential.

You pretty much summed up my thoughts on this. They both have pretty nice contracts though.

Shields
2012 7M club option
2013 9M club option
2014 14M club option

Jimenez
2012 4M
2013 6M club option
2014 8M club option* (Voided if traded)

cbowen2112
07-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Wish that other name next to Damon was Matt Joyce! Joyce would play LF right away with plus defense and plus plus bat. If they would ever consider this, the Reds should jump all over it.

bshall2105
07-20-2011, 05:24 PM
Wish that other name next to Damon was Matt Joyce! Joyce would play LF right away with plus defense and plus plus bat. If they would ever consider this, the Reds should jump all over it.

Matt Joyce is not a plus plus bat.

brm7675
07-20-2011, 05:32 PM
Why not? Because over the past 3 years I have heard that all we need to do with Bailey is let him mature and develop. Each year I think this will be the year he puts it together, each year I am wrong. I don't want to watch the Reds sit like they have over the past several years and hope that it finally clicks with their young pitchers. Nothing wrong with having a young inconsistent pitcher in the 4 or 5 spot but right now the only pitcher I have any confidence in is Cueto. Everyone else seems to be hit or miss. Most of them have been pitching a little better as of lately but how long will that continue? Is Cueto a TOR arm, maybe, but what it wrong with 2 TOR arms?

When healthy this season how has Homer not produced? Leake is in his 2nd, yes 2nd season in pro ball and has done nothing but improve. We have incredible potential with Chapman if the Reds would do the right thing. Add in Woods who also is still learning and Bronson and I think you have very capable pitchers to go to the mound every 5th day and pitch this team to victory if the offense can score runs.

I think we have a A and A- already on this team. Outside of the Phils and maybe Giants, I don't see any other team in MLB that has that much of a better starting staff then the Reds have for the next 4-5 years.

HalMorrisRules
07-20-2011, 05:45 PM
I wanted this to happen three and a half years ago


Trade Freel and some other suitable component to TB for Jim Shields and forget about going after Bedard.

cbowen2112
07-20-2011, 05:49 PM
Matt Joyce is not a plus plus bat.

Yeah especially when he was leading the league in average...who needs an All-Star caliber talent?

keeganbrick
07-20-2011, 06:12 PM
Sign me up. I highly doubt you have to give up Mes in a Shields deal too. Add in the fact his numbers should improve in the NL and a good defense behind him too.

FireDusty
07-20-2011, 07:23 PM
Shields is having a great year. I think he is either turning the corner into becoming an elite pitcher or just having a good year. Tough to tell. Jimenez obviously has dynamite stuff and at times is the best pitcher in baseball, but is inconsistent. Jimenez is having a bad year, Shields is having a good year. Tough to tell. Side by side I would take Jimenez based on potential.

I would take either for a reasonable price. Shields just doesn't walk nearly as many hitters.

I would rather have neither and keep what we have and coach it better.

bshall2105
07-20-2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah especially when he was leading the league in average...who needs an All-Star caliber talent?

He's had a good year but he had been awful in his three short stints in the majors prior to 2011. He's also down to .292 and has been on a steady decline since an incredibly hot start. Joyce is a nice player but saying he has a plus plus bat would be saying he is in the same category as Joey Votto, and he is nowhere near that right now.

Hillsdale87
07-20-2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah especially when he was leading the league in average...who needs an All-Star caliber talent?

His batting average is below .200 for the months of June and July. Jonny Gomes had a great month of May last year too. Didn't mean he was a great hitter though

Vottomatic
07-20-2011, 07:46 PM
Alot of good comments in this thread.

1. The hitting is the problem. No clutch hitting.
2. Not many good hitters available in trade.
3. If the Reds were barely in first place, they still couldn't contend in the playoffs because they don't have topnotch starting pitching like the Phils or Giants. Reds are trying to improve it when they can.
4. There are good pitchers available to trade for - Shields, Jimenez.

If you can't improve your hitting, then improve your pitching. Maybe those 4-3 losses will turn into 3-2 wins. :D

Tadasimha
07-20-2011, 10:10 PM
Alot of good comments in this thread.

1. The hitting is the problem. No clutch hitting.
2. Not many good hitters available in trade.
3. If the Reds were barely in first place, they still couldn't contend in the playoffs because they don't have topnotch starting pitching like the Phils or Giants. Reds are trying to improve it when they can.
4. There are good pitchers available to trade for - Shields, Jimenez.

If you can't improve your hitting, then improve your pitching. Maybe those 4-3 losses will turn into 3-2 wins. :D

:thumbup: Well put

Vottomatic
07-20-2011, 10:14 PM
I wish we could get both Shields and Jimenez.

Cueto
Shields
Jimenez
Leake
Bailey
Arroyo traded

CRedsLarkin11
07-20-2011, 10:32 PM
I like either pitcher, especially with those contracts. We are not getting a rental here but someone who can come in and definitely be the Reds ace for a few years. Ubaldo's rough first half makes this even a discussion, the last couple of years there is no way he would be mentioned as tradeable. Shields only worries me because the Rays are still in contention (Rockies usually play better in 2nd half so I'm not saying they are done but they're 10 out) and it may take a king's ransom to bring him in. It is looking more and more like last year was more of an exception than his '08, '09 and '11 numbers. The only person I'm looking at as untradeable is Mesoraco, I won't be very happy if they lose him at this point but the rumored Grandal, Wood, Alonso package would be great.

partisan
07-20-2011, 11:31 PM
I'm a much bigger fan of Shields considering the competition he has to face in that division. However if it takes Alonso and Grandal or another top tier prospect to pull the trigger, I'm not completely sold.

I'm ok with sending Alonso, we can't keep him in AAA until Votto's gone and we really can't put him anywhere but LF which the front office seems hesistant to do at the major league level. But I'd like to hold on to Grandal if possible, it's a damn luxury to have two solid catching prospects and I'd rather see how Mes pans out in the majors before sending away our insurance

edit: I'm fully aware it may take an Alonso/Grandal package to get the deal done. But for me thats a bitter pill to swallow

abish1572
07-20-2011, 11:54 PM
I believe the SP's we have now are fine. If we actually can get some runs in maybe we would do alot better. I still question the reason Chris isn't an everyday player :confused:
Jay needs to be number 3 hole. I remember when he was leading off all the homeruns he was hitting


i say the Starting lineups should be like this


Drew Stubbs
Chris Heisey
Jay Bruce
Brandon Phillips
Joey Votto
Scott Rolen
Zack Cozart
Ryan Hanigan
Pitcher


Starting Rotation

Jonny Cueto
Homer Bailey
Bronson Arroyo
Dontrelle Willis
Mike Leake


Im glad we pick D-train up. He still has it!

Vottomatic
07-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Colorado's demand for 4 major league ready top tier prospects is beyond ridiculous, IMHO. I think they will be sorry they didn't deal with the Reds. Top catching prospects are probably just a notch below top pitching prospects. There aren't many. And demanding Mez from the Reds is just ridiculous. Obviously, doesn't hurt to ask........but the Reds have other really good prospects that the Rockies could obtain, that some other team is now going to end up with.

I will give Jocketty credit for standing firm and now looking to deal with the Rays for Shields. I like both Shields and Jimenez. But Shields pitches against Boston, the Yankees, and Toronto all the time. Jimenez pitches against the weak hitting NL West. Shields has been through the gamut.

Wish we could have both, but if we have to choose, I prefer Shields.

swaisuc
07-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Sign me up. I highly doubt you have to give up Mes in a Shields deal too. Add in the fact his numbers should improve in the NL and a good defense behind him too.

Like Shields myself, but I doubt anyone has better defense than Tampa.

Getting out of the AL East has to be good though.

bounty37h
07-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Shields is having a great year. I think he is either turning the corner into becoming an elite pitcher or just having a good year. Tough to tell. Jimenez obviously has dynamite stuff and at times is the best pitcher in baseball, but is inconsistent. Jimenez is having a bad year, Shields is having a good year. Tough to tell. Side by side I would take Jimenez based on potential.

I can agree with that I guess, but I think we have seen the best of Jimenez already IMO. I would take Shields on potential, think Jimemenz has reached potential already, its a matter if he can get back to that and be consistant.