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Kc61
07-20-2011, 10:03 PM
If the Reds acquire a new good pitcher at the deadline, he would join Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Willis with Wood and Volquez hanging around AAA.

Is there still room for Arroyo?
Should the Reds try and trade his contract?
Would anyone be interested given his subpar season?

Or is Bronson just having an off-year with mono and all? Is he the solid fourth or fifth starter, a veteran, who ultimately will come through?

Personally, I wouldn't want to trade Leake. He has a GABP type pitching arsenal, lots of grounders. I wouldn't want to trade Bailey who may finally be on the brink of good things. And I wouldn't give up so fast on Willis, who has looked good so far.

Would there still be room for Bronson after an acquisition?

How to handle?

reds44
07-20-2011, 10:08 PM
What are you going do with all that money?

cinreds21
07-20-2011, 10:17 PM
No one wants that contract. He still has two years left after that. Arroyo isn't great, but he's not horrible, so it's not a total burden to have him on the staff. Come July 2013, however, a team might call if he's still serviceable.

REDblooded
07-20-2011, 10:26 PM
To spin on my post from another thread...

Could you trade Votto to the Yankees, include Arroyo and his contract in the deal, and get enough in Granderson/pitching prospects to make it worthwhile while freeing up money for the future?

Worth consideration.

camisadelgolf
07-20-2011, 11:14 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Arroyo practically has a no-trade clause. (In April, it's official because of 10/5 rights.) The reason I say that is because due to the terms of Arroyo's contract, the Reds would need to pay him something like $13M upfront just to trade him. What could an opposing team possibly offer that would involve the Reds signing a $13M check and trading away Arroyo? Even if the Reds were receiving Bryce Harper, what team would offer someone of that caliber for Arroyo? Unless he forces his way out of town through the media, Arroyo's a Red through the end of 2013. Get used to it.

REDblooded
07-20-2011, 11:26 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Arroyo practically has a no-trade clause. (In April, it's official because of 10/5 rights.) The reason I say that is because due to the terms of Arroyo's contract, the Reds would need to pay him something like $13M upfront just to trade him. What could an opposing team possibly offer that would involve the Reds signing a $13M check and trading away Arroyo? Even if the Reds were receiving Bryce Harper, what team would offer someone of that caliber for Arroyo? Unless he forces his way out of town through the media, Arroyo's a Red through the end of 2013. Get used to it.

Yo "rain on our parade"

camisadelgolf
07-20-2011, 11:40 PM
Yo "rain on our parade"
It's the only reason I wake up in the mid-afternoon.

klw
07-21-2011, 09:40 AM
The only team I could see Arroyo being traded to is Boston. They have had issues with the health of the starters and if Arroyo would be happy reworking things to go anywhere it would seem to be Boston. That said I would think this a lot more likely if the Reds were 10 out and without any hope. Plus even with his struggles this year the fact the Reds just signed him up for 3 years over the offseason makes me think that they are wanting him around even with this not being his best year.

dougdirt
07-21-2011, 09:42 AM
As cami said.... Arroyo is a Red through the end of his contract. I don't mind Walt Jocketty as a GM, but he has come up with some interesting deals to guys well into their 30's the past two seasons (Rolen and Arroyo) that really are going to bite us.

klw
07-21-2011, 09:58 AM
What are you going do with all that money?

I couldn't help but think of Ocean's 11 with this.
http://blog.brickhousesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/oceans-eleven.jpg

Ghosts of 1990
07-21-2011, 10:13 AM
No guarantee that his mono goes away in the off-season either. That is a disease that if you have it chronically which I assume Arroyo might, can linger for some time. It's not debilitating to the point where he won't be able to make starts, but it's possible that he feels the effects of it for years. It's not always something that you just get over. Only his doctors know if it's acute or chronic that is afflicting him.

westofyou
07-22-2011, 01:37 PM
After 19 starts Bronson Arroyo has allowed 26 HRs. Last season, he “only” allowed 29. Arroyo currently averages a HR every 19.5 batters he faces, which is even worse than Eric Milton’s 2005 season with the Reds, which was 1 every 21.4 batters faced.

At the current pace, by seasons end, Arroyo would allow 43 HRs, and his HR allowed per batter rate would eclipse not only Milton’s aforementioned rate but also the 2000 version of Rob Bell whose insanely pitiful rate of 1 HR allowed for every 19.35 batters faced could be the worst in team history for those who have allowed 20 HRs a season or more.



HOMERUNS YEAR HR BFP IP ERA RSAA PCT
1 Eric Milton 2005 40 855 186.1 -2.24 -41 .348
2 Tom Browning 1988 36 1001 250.2 0.04 6 .783
T3 Sammy Ellis 1966 35 960 221 -1.69 -26 .387
T3 Aaron Harang 2008 35 793 184.1 -.49 -8 .261
T5 Ramon Ortiz 2005 34 755 171.1 -1.13 -16 .450
T5 Ken Raffensberger 1950 34 1026 239 -.11 4 .424
T7 Jim Merritt 1969 33 1072 251 -.78 -22 .654
T7 Bill Gullickson 1987 33 698 165 -.77 -11 .476
T9 Elmer Dessens 2001 32 862 205 -.12 -4 .417
T9 Tom Browning 1991 32 983 230.1 -.49 -4 .500
T9 Rob Bell 2000 32 618 140.1 -.37 0 .467
T12 Bronson Arroyo 2006 31 992 240.2 1.20 41 .560
T12 Bronson Arroyo 2009 31 923 220.1 0.36 7 .536
T12 Brett Tomko 1999 31 744 172 -.35 -7 .417
T12 Tom Browning 1989 31 1031 249.2 0.11 8 .556
T12 Jay Hook 1960 31 939 222 -.74 -19 .379
T17 Mario Soto 1985 30 1055 256.2 0.02 5 .444
T17 Jose Acevedo 2004 30 704 157.2 -1.62 -34 .294
T17 Steve Parris 2000 30 861 192.2 -.17 4 .414
T17 Danny Graves 2003 30 741 169 -1.04 -20 .211

RedFanAlways1966
07-22-2011, 01:45 PM
Good stuff as usual from woy. It leads me to ask all...

A strikeout is just another out. Seems to be the consensus here (and I agree!). Is a HR just another run? No different than back-to-back doubles. No different than a single-SB-single. Granted the two afore-mentioned runs require two hits and a HR requires one hit. A HR can clear the bases, but so can a triple or a double (and of course the HR scores one more, the batter).

Not arguing that HRs allowed is a good thing. But can it be overrated when judging someone like Bronson Arroyo or anyone else that stands 60'6" from the plate when on the field?

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-22-2011, 02:07 PM
I'm not looking forward to Arroyo's start tonight vs. the Braves. We've been down this "big game" road with him before and he's bombed. Throw in the fact that it's about 150 degrees and the ball should be jumping out of GABP tonight - not a recipe for Bronson Arroyo success, particularly going against Jurrjens.

In my opinion, Arroyo had the most disappointing start of the year when he started the first game of the Indians series at home and proceeded to get lit up with HR after HR early in the game.

Throw in another big crowd tonight, lots of Atlanta fans, going against Atlanta's ace and the temperature, and it's just not a game that I think Arroyo can be successful in at all.

Dan
07-22-2011, 02:09 PM
I would think the # of baserunners on base when the HR is hit is more important. But really, this isn't something I've read about nor thought that much about.

One note: Jim Palmer never gave up a grand slam.

Guacarock
07-23-2011, 01:01 AM
Three more home runs allowed tonight by Arroyo, meaning he's now surrendered 29 in 20 starts. His ERA remains bloated, among the five worst for all MLB regular starters, above the level that landed Wood and Volquez demotions back down to AAA.

The best way to improve the Reds ahead of this year's trading deadline might be to simply shut Arroyo down and place him on the DL. One of the reasons we haven't won back-to-back games in more than a month is that Arroyo hasn't won a single one of his outings over that same time span. He's not just losing. He's losing ugly and pitching weaker all the time, suggesting that a trip to the DL, at the minimum, might be just what the doctor ordered.

I'm not arguing that he bears sole responsibility for our failures. Simultaneously, we've seen our best bats silenced and our manager calling for desperate plays and engaging in questionable strategies that have backfired more often than not. Problems aren't getting solved. They're snowballing, or getting dealt with a day late and a dollar short a la the debacle surrounding Cozart's callup.

This is one of those problems, and it doesn't make much sense why it's been so hard to address or taken so long to acknowledge. If Arroyo is hurting, and it's clear he's not right, then a much-needed rest will do him and the team a world of good. It's not like he's being put out to pasture, just shut down until he's good to go again. If Pedro Martinez or Greg Maddux could endure breaks and come back stronger for it, then why can't Arroyo? Yes, he's had a long streak of consecutive starts, but what's more important: Preserving his streak or the Reds returning to the playoffs a second straight season?

The answer, for me, is pretty clear. And we have more than enough in-house solutions that this move wouldn't hamper the team in the slightest, and more likely, prove a benefit. Time's a wasting...

corkedbat
07-23-2011, 01:31 AM
I understand the intent to retain a veteran arm among the young guns, but the Harang situation alone should have really made them think twice befroe extending BA.

In addition,Harang should have started the season on the DL to recover from his bout with Mono or if not, he should have been placed there in the first couple of weeks of the system. Siwa't,Iagree that heshould be DL'd and not pickup a ball for a couple of weeks, then he should work himself back until he's 100%.

If he does that and he doesn't show signs of returning to form, I put him in Lecure's spot and give him carte blanche to work any deal he can, with the BoSox (or anyone else), IF he wants to drop the poison pills in the contract. Otherwise, his contract puts him in the rotation until it runs its course.